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On July 27 2016 03:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. I've heard your sentiment from Europeans before, and this is the problem. Requiring ID to vote seems logical, but you also have to remember that the U.S. government (well, mostly the state governments) are actually atrocious at doing most things, particularly anything handling ID's/driver's licenses. Ask almost any American and you'll hear about how utterly horrendous the DMV is. ID's are actually quite hard to get, cost a decent chunk of money (over $20 in Minnesota to just get an ID card, which is a lot of money for the poor), and are in very inconvenient locations. They also frequently tell you that the documents that you have aren't valid and that you can't pay with a certain type of tender (I've seen various government centers turn down checks, credit/debit cards, and cash). I truly believe that the sheer incompetence of the average U.S. state government is a world wonder all on its own. It's utterly mind-blowing.
$20 for an ID. We pay €50 here mate. People not voting because they can't buy an ID is a non issue at least Ive never heard it over here. Government here is pretty atrocious as well. Our municipality is only open on 3 morning (like nobody has to work lol) although not as bad as some of the examples you gave.
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Yeah instead of spending millions (or to be realistic, billions) of dollars on this tiny tiny issue, why don't we put that towards like... infrastructure or something.
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On July 27 2016 03:29 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. I've heard your sentiment from Europeans before, and this is the problem. Requiring ID to vote seems logical, but you also have to remember that the U.S. government (well, mostly the state governments) are actually atrocious at doing most things, particularly anything handling ID's/driver's licenses. Ask almost any American and you'll hear about how utterly horrendous the DMV is. ID's are actually quite hard to get, cost a decent chunk of money (over $20 in Minnesota to just get an ID card, which is a lot of money for the poor), and are in very inconvenient locations. They also frequently tell you that the documents that you have aren't valid and that you can't pay with a certain type of tender (I've seen various government centers turn down checks, credit/debit cards, and cash). I truly believe that the sheer incompetence of the average U.S. state government is a world wonder all on its own. It's utterly mind-blowing. $20 for an ID. We pay €50 here mate. People not voting because they can't buy an ID is a non issue at least Ive never heard it over here. Government here is pretty atrocious as well. Our municipality is only open on 3 morning (like nobody has to work lol) although not as bad as some of the examples you gave.
First, it can cost considerably more than $25 if you need to buy/ obtain certain documents as prerequisite criteria to obtaining a voter ID.
And second, the ability of voting is a constitutional right, afforded to us by the 15th Amendment. You don't lose your freedom of speech or religion or right to bare arms if you have no money; you shouldn't lose your right to vote either.
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On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles".
Arguing that there's a high percentage of minorities who are unable to come up with $20-40 to get a driver's license (or other ID) is tantamount to arguing that minorities have a high incidence of being retarded. Having an ID is an essential component of being a functioning member of society. Making excuses for people not to get one accomplishes little more than ensuring the perpetuation of their poor circumstances. But hey, democrat policy has never been about raising these people up, has it? All that matters are the votes, right?
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On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles".
I don't know shit about this topic, but how does someone vote if they are not a citizen? I had to register by filling out a few lines to get approved. What is "absurdly redundant paperwork", and if you are so poor you cannot even afford a ID then the election is the least of your worries.
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On July 27 2016 03:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". Arguing that there's a high percentage of minorities who are unable to come up with $20-40 to get a driver's license (or other ID) is tantamount to arguing that minorities have a high incidence of being retarded. Having an ID is an essential component of being a functioning member of society. Making excuses for people not to get one accomplishes little more than ensuring the perpetuation of their poor circumstances. But hey, democrat policy has never been about raising these people up, has it? All that matters are the votes, right?
That same logic applies to literacy tests lol.
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On July 27 2016 03:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". Arguing that there's a high percentage of minorities who are unable to come up with $20-40 to get a driver's license (or other ID) is tantamount to arguing that minorities have a high incidence of being retarded. Having an ID is an essential component of being a functioning member of society. Making excuses for people not to get one accomplishes little more than ensuring the perpetuation of their poor circumstances. But hey, democrat policy has never been about raising these people up, has it? All that matters are the votes, right?
I apparently preemptively responded to this comment when i just posted my reply to RvB. Please refer to it. And personally, I think you're better than calling poor people, minorities, the elderly, and immigrants "imbeciles" and "retarded". Come on now.
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On July 27 2016 03:32 ticklishmusic wrote:Yeah instead of spending millions (or to be realistic, billions) of dollars on this tiny tiny issue, why don't we put that towards like... infrastructure or something.
Because there is a Black man in the oval office right now and any domestic success is paramount to treason to a certain political party.
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On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID.
It's not very American to disenfranchise imbeciles. Or people that aren't "productive members of society." I'm glad you realize that's what the laws are for, though, and don't pretend it's anything else.
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On July 27 2016 03:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". Arguing that there's a high percentage of minorities who are unable to come up with $20-40 to get a driver's license (or other ID) is tantamount to arguing that minorities have a high incidence of being retarded. Having an ID is an essential component of being a functioning member of society. Making excuses for people not to get one accomplishes little more than ensuring the perpetuation of their poor circumstances. But hey, democrat policy has never been about raising these people up, has it? All that matters are the votes, right?
So when you are on food stamps and other assistance, which is likely if you are poor... just saying... and your choice is between 20 bucks for an ID or 20 bucks for cereal or clothes, which one would you pick? Granted this is an extreme example, but I would argue that the vast majority of people we are discussing as part of this topic qualify as extreme examples.
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On July 27 2016 03:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". Arguing that there's a high percentage of minorities who are unable to come up with $20-40 to get a driver's license (or other ID) is tantamount to arguing that minorities have a high incidence of being retarded. Having an ID is an essential component of being a functioning member of society. Making excuses for people not to get one accomplishes little more than ensuring the perpetuation of their poor circumstances. But hey, democrat policy has never been about raising these people up, has it? All that matters are the votes, right?
It beats the Republican policy of kicking the shit out of them and unconstitutionally denying them the right to vote on the taxpayer’s dime. And then passing it off like it is combating voter fraud, even though it has been proven to be a nonissue. The party of small government.
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On July 27 2016 03:35 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". I don't know shit about this topic, but how does someone vote if they are not a citizen? I had to register by filling out a few lines to get approved. What is "absurdly redundant paperwork", and if you are so poor you cannot even afford a ID then the election is the least of your worries.
It's sad that you have to continue to trivialize the myriad reasons that voter ID laws are a bad idea and yet you still can't address the fact that
There is literally nothing to be gained from voter ID laws. The fraud that they purport to combat doesn't actually exist.
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On July 27 2016 03:35 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". I don't know shit about this topic, but how does someone vote if they are not a citizen? I had to register by filling out a few lines to get approved. What is "absurdly redundant paperwork", and if you are so poor you cannot even afford a ID then the election is the least of your worries.
You can’t be added to a voter registry if you are not a citizen. That is when you have to present ID and all the other necessary documents, rather than the voting booth.
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On July 27 2016 03:35 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". if you are so poor you cannot even afford a ID then the election is the least of your worries.
Doesn't matter. People who don't have a single dollar have a constitutional right to vote.
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On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass.
Racism: check
Insulting: check
Broad claims with no support: check
More insults: check
If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen.
Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer.
What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'.
It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years.
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On July 27 2016 03:35 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". I don't know shit about this topic, but how does someone vote if they are not a citizen? I had to register by filling out a few lines to get approved. What is "absurdly redundant paperwork", and if you are so poor you cannot even afford a ID then the election is the least of your worries.
The amount of paperwork to get an ID is extremely state-dependent, and I'm pretty sure the hoops you have to jump through as a non-citizen when it comes to registration is also state-dependent (though I'm not positive on that). I think some(?) resident aliens in very specific situations can vote but it's probably a pain.
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On July 27 2016 03:36 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:34 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". Arguing that there's a high percentage of minorities who are unable to come up with $20-40 to get a driver's license (or other ID) is tantamount to arguing that minorities have a high incidence of being retarded. Having an ID is an essential component of being a functioning member of society. Making excuses for people not to get one accomplishes little more than ensuring the perpetuation of their poor circumstances. But hey, democrat policy has never been about raising these people up, has it? All that matters are the votes, right? That same logic applies to literacy tests lol.
Except literacy tests aren't tied to any compelling state interest concerning the regulation of voting rights. And courts have already ruled that requiring ID can be constitutional (if done correctly), so you can leave the red herring out of this.
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On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check
I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right.
2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion.
15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard.
Sigh.
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On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen. Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer. What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'. It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years.
It doesn’t matter, it is a law that doesn’t’ need to exist. People already provide those documents when they register to vote. They don’t need to do it again and the courts have agreed.
You are advocating passing a law that to combat a crime that does not take place and spending billions doing it.
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On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen. Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer. What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'. It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years.
No, the original claim was that Donald Trump wants to stop same-day voting registration (which does limit voting rights). It had nothing to do with voter ID. In fact he doesn't even endorse requiring an ID particularly, just a method to stop non-citizens from voting.
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EPT
