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On July 12 2016 19:09 bardtown wrote:
Remember, we're talking about a country where the government and intelligence agencies are willing to ignore and even censor every mention of [redacted] because it doesn't suit their narrative.
If you're not worried about PC, I'm worried about you.
the way people try to monopolize narratives does bother me, from every side
what bothers me more pertinently in this case is people reflexively saying "this might not be considered pc, but blah blah blah"
stick to one point, and if its meritorious and wellsupported, itll be obvious if people are trying to censor you for bad reasons
note that i didnt even disagree with what he called nonpc, i just find the preemptive posturing rather annoying and prone to taking conversations on a tangent down the well-worn pc argument path
On July 12 2016 19:20 Surth wrote:
maybe we need some nietzschean belief in tragedy again.
yeee
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everybody incapable of or resistant to participating in actual dialogue, which involves listening and really trying to understand others, tend to try to take control of language and monopolize definitions and use of language, whether under the guise of "pc" or "but this is the truth, wake up"
just discuss the substance, and if somebody shows themselves incapable of addressing the substance in goodwill without repeatedly diverting to their talking points, give up on them and disengage
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that's the worst thing you could do because you waste energy for nothing.
arguments, like people, need closure. if you can't convince your enemy, when battling semantics, that yours is better, even when you are right you still lost, you still failed to accomplish something.
you being right has no more weight than him being wrong.
how it always went(and it's still valid) was like this:
- if it can be argued with and you have the patience/good will, you try that;
- when that fails or when that is not an option(language barriers) and you have the means, you enslave him, you force your reasoning/argument/way on him.
- when that fails, you kill him then as a victor you write the history.
/clap, you solved a problem.
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On July 12 2016 21:22 xM(Z wrote:
that's the worst thing you could do because you waste energy for nothing.
that's how i feel about most of the posts in this thread but hey at least i try to get novelties and learn of random blind spots for myself
anyone who approaches this thread looking to show off how right they are and how wrong others are is of no interest to me... unless they're making novel points at the least
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On July 12 2016 21:24 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2016 21:22 xM(Z wrote:
that's the worst thing you could do because you waste energy for nothing. that's how i feel about most of the posts in this thread but hey at least i try to get novelties and learn of random blind spots for myself anyone who approaches this thread looking to show off how right they are and how wrong others are is of no interest to me... unless they're making novel points at the least
that's to plain/predictable.
+ Show Spoiler +what you need to do is transcend your argument into a form that speaks with ones subconscious. what happens then is:
- initially it will seem you lost, you gave up, he kept his reasoning but, in time he will have some sort of epiphany like moment in which your exact argument and reasoning will surface (from within him) and he will believe it, will adhere to it because it seemingly came from him.
you are now Zen.
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When it comes down to it, there's no such thing as "wasting energy," and I really think y'all underestimate the value of having this platform to communicate with folks we'd otherwise never even know existed.
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On July 12 2016 21:37 farvacola wrote:
When it comes down to it, there's no such thing as "wasting energy,"
that's a rather bold semantic imposition that requires ad-hoc definitions of "waste" and "energy" to be meaningful
i'm just going to jump straight to assuming u meant one must imagine sisyphus happy
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i don't subscribe to the conservation of energy ad infinitum idea so yea, as far as i'm concerned there is such a thing as wasting energy and it's not that people underestimate this platform but that people don't know how to properly formulate an argument; mainly, an argument based on on the brain(bio-chemo-electric) abilities of its interlocutor(people think with different parts of the brain which require different ways, specific ways of addressing an issue in order to get it across).
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On July 12 2016 21:55 xM(Z wrote:
i don't subscribe to the conservation of energy ad infinitum
conservation of energy as an idea in physics has very little to do with the word "energy" used in anthropological contexts
in this context i'd equate it somewhat with willpower... i feel like most people the general sense that they have some finite amount of willpower they can exert per day on mentally exhausting/taxing/tedious tasks before theyre mentally exhausted and prone to doing mainly things that take little energy... like entertaining themselves...
but then in this context i'd say most of the stuff going on in this thread doesn't take much of that kind of energy/willpower anyway
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hmm, no psychology shenanigans; to me it's basic physics - you need x amount of energy to do x task; you get that energy from foods and stuff (the brain uses up to 20% of ones body's total haul; that's pretty insane) .
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On July 12 2016 19:20 Surth wrote:
what I find so hilarious about the screams of "PC! PC!" is that it shows, in essence, that almost everyone, on every side of the discourse, wishes to show himself to be a victim. Finding virtue in suffering - truly, we are all christians. The melodramatic mode rules us all.
maybe we need some nietzschean belief in tragedy again.
bardtown: I don't worry about "islamic" terrorism in the first place, so I'm not worried about the government calling it by whatever name, so I'm not worried about PC. Sorry.
Projection. Pointing out a societal flaw does not make me a victim. I'm an outside observer, for Christ's sake; how can I be a victim? Also, whether you are worried about Islamic terrorism or not is just a sideline, as PC culture is ubiquitous.
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On July 12 2016 22:07 xM(Z wrote:
hmm, no psychology shenanigans; to me it's basic physics - you need x amount of energy to do x task; you get that energy from foods and stuff (the brain uses up to 20% of ones body's total haul; that's pretty insane) .
the brain's physics is anything but basic
i studied physics and this, "the brain uses up to 20% of ones body's total haul; that's pretty insane," while probably true, does not tell you at all about how the brain consumes energy or what mental tasks consume energy in what proportions
it's really not useful to use the literal scientific physical definition of energy in this context
and if you're talking about basic physics, then you can't actually deny conservation of energy...
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On July 12 2016 22:16 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2016 19:20 Surth wrote:
what I find so hilarious about the screams of "PC! PC!" is that it shows, in essence, that almost everyone, on every side of the discourse, wishes to show himself to be a victim. Finding virtue in suffering - truly, we are all christians. The melodramatic mode rules us all.
maybe we need some nietzschean belief in tragedy again.
bardtown: I don't worry about "islamic" terrorism in the first place, so I'm not worried about the government calling it by whatever name, so I'm not worried about PC. Sorry. Projection. Pointing out a societal flaw does not make me a victim. I'm an outside observer, for Christ's sake; how can I be a victim? Also, whether you are worried about Islamic terrorism or not is just a sideline, as PC culture is ubiquitous.
ok i'll bite
can you actually pick and choose a few contexts where you think PC culture is especially damaging?
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On July 12 2016 21:37 farvacola wrote:
When it comes down to it, there's no such thing as "wasting energy," and I really think y'all underestimate the value of having this platform to communicate with folks we'd otherwise never even know existed.
In general I agree. But I also agree with kapibara’s point that everyone needs to decide how much effort they want to put into a discussion. All discussions were not created equal and sometimes it’s a lot of effort for very little gain. Especially when the discussion resolves around vague abstractions like “PC culture” and “the liberal media” that have mercurial, ever shifting counter arguments.
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On July 12 2016 22:18 kapibara-san wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2016 22:16 bardtown wrote:On July 12 2016 19:20 Surth wrote:
what I find so hilarious about the screams of "PC! PC!" is that it shows, in essence, that almost everyone, on every side of the discourse, wishes to show himself to be a victim. Finding virtue in suffering - truly, we are all christians. The melodramatic mode rules us all.
maybe we need some nietzschean belief in tragedy again.
bardtown: I don't worry about "islamic" terrorism in the first place, so I'm not worried about the government calling it by whatever name, so I'm not worried about PC. Sorry. Projection. Pointing out a societal flaw does not make me a victim. I'm an outside observer, for Christ's sake; how can I be a victim? Also, whether you are worried about Islamic terrorism or not is just a sideline, as PC culture is ubiquitous. ok i'll bite can you actually pick and choose a few contexts where you think PC culture is especially damaging?
Hiding Cologne mass rape from publjc and Britains pakistani rape gangs.
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On July 12 2016 22:35 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2016 22:18 kapibara-san wrote:On July 12 2016 22:16 bardtown wrote:On July 12 2016 19:20 Surth wrote:
what I find so hilarious about the screams of "PC! PC!" is that it shows, in essence, that almost everyone, on every side of the discourse, wishes to show himself to be a victim. Finding virtue in suffering - truly, we are all christians. The melodramatic mode rules us all.
maybe we need some nietzschean belief in tragedy again.
bardtown: I don't worry about "islamic" terrorism in the first place, so I'm not worried about the government calling it by whatever name, so I'm not worried about PC. Sorry. Projection. Pointing out a societal flaw does not make me a victim. I'm an outside observer, for Christ's sake; how can I be a victim? Also, whether you are worried about Islamic terrorism or not is just a sideline, as PC culture is ubiquitous. ok i'll bite can you actually pick and choose a few contexts where you think PC culture is especially damaging? Hiding Cologne mass rape from publjc and Britains pakistani rape gangs.
What was hidden there? What part of the public missed it being on the frontpages for like a month?
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I feel that citations are going to be critical to this discussion so the other side doesn’t have to go digging every time someone brings something up.
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Unfortunately, proving negatives isn't really made any easier through citation. Like mahrgell stated above, the Cologne rape incident was not exactly hidden by or from anyone, and yet, folks like NukeD are going to assert that PC culture somehow hid it from us. There's really nowhere to go from there lol.
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as a devils advocate, personally thinking its not a big deal, i recall /r/news' censorship of the orlando shooting to have been pretty bad all around... and on that occasion, it resurfaced that /r/news mods did censor earlier reports about rape...
you can see the fallout of the /r/news debacle here
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4nql8f/orlando_nightclub_shooting_megathread/
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4nsiw1/state_of_the_subreddit_and_the_orlando_shooting/
but yeah idk that's the only outlet i can actually point at, and it's not an especially esteemed one in the first place
i think part of "pc culture" is embedded in the greater issue of echo chambers... inwhich the sensitive, liberal ones tend to self-censor things they consider unsavory and non-pc... but the greater issue of echo chambers itself is brought up again and again and people don't have much of a solution because they're pretty much self-selecting; they wouldnt exist if people didn't seek them out. dunno how to force self-awareness on those people; dunno how to teach them to hold civilized discussion with people they disagree with. this goes for all sides.
it isn't even often censorship per se so much as "aggressively talking over with their own well-worn talking points"
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The US and Mexico have agreed to improve access to asylum for the tens of thousands of Central Americans fleeing unbridled violence in their countries, and to explore alternatives to detention.
The commitments were laid out in a draft document circulated at the end of a two-day meeting last week on the plight of migrants from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. Hosted by the UN refugee agency, the summit in Costa Rica sought to raise the profile of and seek improved responses to the Central American refugee crisis, and brought together NGOs, representatives from refugees’ countries of origin, as well as those from transit and asylum countries.
“There isn’t enough attention paid to this situation in the Northern Triangle, which has been unfolding over the last couple of years,” Volker Türk, the UN’s assistant high commissioner for refugees, told the Guardian in a phone interview during the meeting.
Though Central America produces large numbers of economic migrants who head to the United States or Canada seeking better employment opportunities, it is the surge in asylum seekers that has caused regional concern.
These are mostly people fleeing violence inflicted on their communities by brutal criminal gangs who regularly target civilians, raping, murdering, forcibly recruiting and kidnapping their victims in exchange for exorbitant ransom payments.
Source
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EPT
