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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4179

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 13:35:12
July 07 2016 13:06 GMT
#83561
On July 07 2016 18:51 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 14:19 xDaunt wrote:
On July 07 2016 12:41 ticklishmusic wrote:
i love how people cite hillary's "shitty record". it's either they're being disingenuous or are straight up ignorant of what positions she actually took with regards to iraq, libya, etc.

Shitting on Hillary's FP record is like shooting fish in a barrel. God knows that I have done it plenty around here, and I have yet to see anything resembling a satisfactory rebuttal.


I cant think of anyone that has a good FP record if you really want to start arguing bad FP. US FP in general is shit

A nation's FP generally doesn't make you look good to the rest of the world. However, there's a difference between a few poorly planned incursions (which each president has a fair few to their name) and being as bad as Hillary Clinton on this issue. She touts her experience but hardly mentions the fact that the vast majority of the projects she spearheaded were blunders and bizarre Wolfowitz-like posturing. The main reason her opponents don't call her out on it is because Sanders himself is by and large a foreign policy dunce (he could have hammered her on all her failures if he were more experienced) and the Republican party except Trump all support her policies to the fullest degree. Instead they go after pet cases like Benghazi and some individuals take that as sufficient rationalization to pretend her other FP faults don't exist and that she is the antithesis to the evil George W Bush policy rather than second only to John Rambo McCain in being his FP successor.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22695 Posts
July 07 2016 13:06 GMT
#83562
On July 07 2016 21:58 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 21:50 Plansix wrote:
More importantly the traffic stop was for a burnt out tail light and the victim had no criminal record. Without some other information, I see no reason for that office to approach the car gun drawn. This was in a low crime area as well.


Yeah really unfortunate, the guy was a responsible gun owner who followed the law. The gf who video taped the whole thing was calmer than the trained officer, really is sad.

To me the Alton case was a straight execution with malice, this one seems to be more incompetence and lack of training combined with miscommunication. All speculation though cause we don't have the full footage.

Lack of training and miscommunication seems to get an awful lot of people in the US killed by police.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 07 2016 13:14 GMT
#83563
The worst part about this is that I am sure the offices in both cases will be acquitted and keep their jobs. They might need to move to a new city, but they will keep their jobs, pension and everything. And I doubt either political part will make any effort to address the issue until we have full blown riots.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 13:36:24
July 07 2016 13:35 GMT
#83564
On July 07 2016 21:58 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 21:50 Plansix wrote:
More importantly the traffic stop was for a burnt out tail light and the victim had no criminal record. Without some other information, I see no reason for that office to approach the car gun drawn. This was in a low crime area as well.


Yeah really unfortunate, the guy was a responsible gun owner who followed the law. The gf who video taped the whole thing was calmer than the trained officer, really is sad.

To me the Alton case was a straight execution with malice, this one seems to be more incompetence and lack of training combined with miscommunication. All speculation though cause we don't have the full footage.


It's not the policeman's fault it's the system's!

(and we refuse to address either)
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46669 Posts
July 07 2016 13:47 GMT
#83565
Privilege is getting to walk around town looking for Pokemon and not worrying whether or not I'll be shot and killed today.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 14:10:19
July 07 2016 14:08 GMT
#83566
On July 07 2016 22:06 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 18:51 Rebs wrote:
On July 07 2016 14:19 xDaunt wrote:
On July 07 2016 12:41 ticklishmusic wrote:
i love how people cite hillary's "shitty record". it's either they're being disingenuous or are straight up ignorant of what positions she actually took with regards to iraq, libya, etc.

Shitting on Hillary's FP record is like shooting fish in a barrel. God knows that I have done it plenty around here, and I have yet to see anything resembling a satisfactory rebuttal.


I cant think of anyone that has a good FP record if you really want to start arguing bad FP. US FP in general is shit

A nation's FP generally doesn't make you look good to the rest of the world. However, there's a difference between a few poorly planned incursions (which each president has a fair few to their name) and being as bad as Hillary Clinton on this issue. She touts her experience but hardly mentions the fact that the vast majority of the projects she spearheaded were blunders and bizarre Wolfowitz-like posturing. The main reason her opponents don't call her out on it is because Sanders himself is by and large a foreign policy dunce (he could have hammered her on all her failures if he were more experienced) and the Republican party except Drumpf all support her policies to the fullest degree. Instead they go after pet cases like Benghazi and some individuals take that as sufficient rationalization to pretend her other FP faults don't exist and that she is the antithesis to the evil George W Bush policy rather than second only to John Rambo McCain in being his FP successor.


Dont be ridiculous, even from a self serving perspective the FP has been disastrous. I live in North America I am not speaking from a "rest of the world perspective"

And again you can ignore the pet issues but bring me a list of criticisms of her FP failures that are indisputable and may be a long list and I will bring you a list of every single other secretary of state that beats her pretty badly.

Especially considering the shit storm that has been the state of the world since the invasions.

Everyone sucks at FP, what she has going for her is that atleast there is a chance she will learn instead of someone else who comes in pretends they know wtf is going on and fucks it up even more.

Having failed at things is a more valuable experience in some cases than succeeding and thinking you have it all figured out.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 07 2016 14:09 GMT
#83567
If this Congressional hearing goes south for Comey then I can't see a way Clinton can dig herself out of the hole.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
July 07 2016 14:12 GMT
#83568
On July 07 2016 23:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
If this Congressional hearing goes south for Comey then I can't see a way Clinton can dig herself out of the hole.


I don't really understand what can come of the hearing. It sounds like all they can really do is yell at him and call him names. He already made his recommendation and Lynch already accepted it. What can happen?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 07 2016 14:13 GMT
#83569
Have him repeat his condemtion line by line and then have to answer the meaning of them.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 14:20:57
July 07 2016 14:19 GMT
#83570
On July 07 2016 23:08 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 22:06 LegalLord wrote:
On July 07 2016 18:51 Rebs wrote:
On July 07 2016 14:19 xDaunt wrote:
On July 07 2016 12:41 ticklishmusic wrote:
i love how people cite hillary's "shitty record". it's either they're being disingenuous or are straight up ignorant of what positions she actually took with regards to iraq, libya, etc.

Shitting on Hillary's FP record is like shooting fish in a barrel. God knows that I have done it plenty around here, and I have yet to see anything resembling a satisfactory rebuttal.


I cant think of anyone that has a good FP record if you really want to start arguing bad FP. US FP in general is shit

A nation's FP generally doesn't make you look good to the rest of the world. However, there's a difference between a few poorly planned incursions (which each president has a fair few to their name) and being as bad as Hillary Clinton on this issue. She touts her experience but hardly mentions the fact that the vast majority of the projects she spearheaded were blunders and bizarre Wolfowitz-like posturing. The main reason her opponents don't call her out on it is because Sanders himself is by and large a foreign policy dunce (he could have hammered her on all her failures if he were more experienced) and the Republican party except Drumpf all support her policies to the fullest degree. Instead they go after pet cases like Benghazi and some individuals take that as sufficient rationalization to pretend her other FP faults don't exist and that she is the antithesis to the evil George W Bush policy rather than second only to John Rambo McCain in being his FP successor.


Dont be ridiculous, even from a self serving perspective the FP has been disastrous. I live in North America I am not speaking from a "rest of the world perspective"

And again you can ignore the pet issues but bring me a list of criticisms of her FP failures that are indisputable and may be a long list and I will bring you a list of every single other secretary of state that beats her pretty badly.

Especially considering the shit storm that has been the state of the world since the invasions.

I mean, her FP involvement starts with her tenure as First Lady (and she did, in fact, have a nontrivial role there and in the Senate in FP expansionism) so just the SoS tenure is not sufficient to describe her overall FP record. You could easily just say that Madeleine Albright, Colin Powell, etc., were worse but she played a prominent part in the FP of their tenure as well so it's not really a fair comparison.

But I'll bite, if only out of curiosity on your position that she isn't so bad. The major SoS failures that started within her tenure include (off the top of my head) Ukraine (Orange Revolution), Georgia, South China Sea disputes, Libya, and Syria. What SoS tenures were worse? Bonus points for those that occur before 1993.

On July 07 2016 23:08 Rebs wrote:
Everyone sucks at FP, what she has going for her is that atleast there is a chance she will learn instead of someone else who comes in pretends they know wtf is going on and fucks it up even more.

"Everyone sucks therefore Hillary does not suck."

On July 07 2016 23:08 Rebs wrote:
Having failed at things is a more valuable experience in some cases than succeeding and thinking you have it all figured out.

Having good judgment is more valuable than experience. Hillary has proven not to have that.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
July 07 2016 14:22 GMT
#83571
Interesting that half of those who were killed by the police this year were white, while a quarter were black.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

which seems to suggest that blacks are not being disproportionately killed by police
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
July 07 2016 14:25 GMT
#83572
On July 07 2016 23:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Interesting that half of those who were killed by the police this year were white, while a quarter were black.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

which seems to suggest that blacks are not being disproportionately killed by police


you do realize that there are more white people than black people in america
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 14:26:13
July 07 2016 14:25 GMT
#83573
On July 07 2016 23:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Interesting that half of those who were killed by the police this year were white, while a quarter were black.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

which seems to suggest that blacks are not being disproportionately killed by police

I don't really see the relevance in that but even if, a part of the population makes up 12% of the population and gets killed 25% of the times. That is disproportionately. Literally
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46669 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 14:29:32
July 07 2016 14:27 GMT
#83574
On July 07 2016 23:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Interesting that half of those who were killed by the police this year were white, while a quarter were black.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

which seems to suggest that blacks are not being disproportionately killed by police


According to this: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

3.23/M blacks, and only 1.39/M whites. That's 2.3 times more of a frequency for blacks over whites (I don't know if that's statistically significant or not). Also, Native Americans are killed even more frequently than blacks this year o.O
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
July 07 2016 14:27 GMT
#83575
I don't think 12% of suspects or persons of interest are black, what does general demographic have to do with this?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 07 2016 14:29 GMT
#83576
On July 07 2016 23:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Have him repeat his condemtion line by line and then have to answer the meaning of them.

The FBI director is going to provide their reasoning and then remind congress that they can appoint a special prosecutor and bring charges if they disagree. The FBI could just hand over the case to the special prosecutor and move on with their lives.

The GOP just wants to make a big stink about this and ask why people aren’t doing what they want. Even though they are totally empowered go after her, but think it’s better claim the FBI’s investigation is biased.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
BallinWitStalin
Profile Joined July 2008
1177 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-11 19:29:12
July 07 2016 14:34 GMT
#83577
I await the reminiscent nerd chills I will get when I hear a Korean broadcaster yell "WEEAAAAVVVVVUUUHHH" while watching Dota
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 07 2016 14:34 GMT
#83578
Comey didn't do that well by the first line of questions. And Mr. Cummings isn't helping him either.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24492 Posts
July 07 2016 14:37 GMT
#83579
On July 07 2016 23:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Comey didn't do that well by the first line of questions. And Mr. Cummings isn't helping him either.


If Jason wasn't such a knob he could of got some better answers. Gowdy is better at this
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
July 07 2016 14:41 GMT
#83580
This is pretty pathetic, Gowdy's found that 3 documents had classified markings out of 60,000. It's like saying you've never been late in your life but it turns out you've been a couple minutes late a couple times because, y'know, that's really hard. And somehow that's a terrible lie which is a sign of moral turpitude.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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