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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On June 10 2016 02:58 GreenHorizons wrote: Sure, if we have to abide by the white definition, anyone can be racist, but only white people can be raycist. The very fact that you call it a 'white' definition is your problem and why you're a racist. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:05 Gorsameth wrote: Hate to break it to you but over here in the Netherlands I cant shoot an intruder raping my daughter without getting charged for murder either. Not being allowed to kill a person unless under direct threat of death is the norm in the world outside the US. Or do you think the world is racist against whites? Geez. Sir, if you can't shoot a man raping your daughter your country has gone too far down the wrong road of tolerance. I'll always be of the opinion of: "I'll murder the shit out of you if you hurt a single hair on my daughters head". (clearly not if some guy bumps into her and gives her a black eye accidentally, that's just laughable). But intent to hurt, kill or traumatize? This person first broke a social contract and entered your home, your castle. They then broke another social contract and assaulted your daughter. They had not an ounce of decency in them. Despicable. Allowing that to happen ... what a disgusting cuck society. Reprehensible. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:06 GGTeMpLaR wrote: The bold part is the most important point in eliminating racism as a whole. Stop attributing responsibility to collectives and be responsible for yourself. If everyone did this racism wouldn't exist. Problem is people in general, from all sorts of backgrounds, are too stupid to do it. Maybe you should do the same and stop blaming the mythical “regressive left” when people point out views you agree with are racist. Or is it just other people of other races who need to work on personal responsibility? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23222 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:04 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I agree White people don't know what it's like to be black. Most black people today haven't experienced 'real raycism' either. That has long since been eradicated and named taboo in our mainstream culture, and rightly so. You show me a KKK 'raycist' you're showing me a terrible person. I agree with you. I do not think that type of person exists anymore. I grew up knowing people who I would say are 'racist' because they make 'black jokes' when no black people were around, but would never disrespect a black person or treat them like they weren't a human. I do not think that type of mindset exists in America anymore, it's considered a taboo of our culture to even think like that let alone share it with others. You're literally being the racist you hate. "I'd rather white people (like all white people are the same) stop being jerks, but we've (all black people) been waiting for that ship for a loooong time now. You are the racist in this thread. Stop thinking in collectives based on race. I don't think racism will ever 100% die off until we discover alien life and only then will we start thinking of everyone as the 'human race' instead of 'black race white race asian race' because people will have some actual fucking racism against some protoss and zerg to throw around. You don't get to define "raycism" period. I specifically made it a different word to avoid that confusion. You have no clue what type of raycism or to what extent black people experience. You simply don't have a clue. Do yourself a favor and don't act like you do. EDIT: I'm not talking about all white people. Just white people who are clueless about racism and say things like "there aren't any KKK racists anymore". They not only exist, they are in positions of authority. You have no clue about that which you speak. Echoing the once-segregated South, a Florida deputy police chief has resigned and an officer has been fired after the FBI reported that both belonged to the Ku Klux Klan Source | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:09 Plansix wrote: Maybe you should do the same and stop blaming the mythical “regressive left” when people point out views you agree with are racist. Or is it just other people of other races who need to work on personal responsibility? There is a growing subsection of regressive leftists. People are fighting back against it. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On June 10 2016 02:15 SK.Testie wrote: I brought up that it was a global pattern though Slaughter. I still am 100% certain that you judge each individual by the content of their character and you do not discriminate the person by their race. But in London, UK, the pattern of black violence repeated itself at a rate that was eerily similar to the USA. In Brazil and so on. So time and time again in places that have the largest multicultural of communities, we see the most strife. In smaller communities, there isn't much strife where things are "gentrified". There was a point where I pushed boundaries earlier in the thread where I wanted to get a reaction and point out something that progressives do which is just shout down people who have natural curiosities and questions that aren't 'concern trolling' nor have an 'agenda'. A new mind coming to the debate needs to be explained these things calmly. Whether the man is 40 years old and he lived in a homogeneous community and he was introduced to the struggles of multiculturalism. Or whether the person simply grew up around it. Anyone coming upon the information would be like, "woah why is this happening?!" imagine a progressive simply shouting, "STFU YOU FUCKING RACIST". Your calm and collected approach is far better than what you see in the dismissive comments on facebook. Cynical and dismissive from both sides. SJWs and progressives actually contribute to racism far more than calm minds that debate, "well is it genetic? is it not? If so why?" There are SJW's that simply say bringing it up alone is racist. That we should all fear bringing it up for fear of social persecution. And I think that's disingenuous and harmful to public discourse and in fact makes matters far, far worse. It's divisive while preaching unity. You'll see scientists debate it in a calm and collected manner and discuss differences from the less controversial like this: http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/match4lara-mixed-race-marrow-search-thats-going-viral/ (marrow) http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1993074,00.html (bone marrow transplants) to the much more controversial like this: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912003741 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB115040765329081636 http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/10/news/la-heb-genetic-study-intelligence-20110809 People who talk about this in a calm and rational matter are the proper way to discuss this matter because it eases everyone. But it's a long conversation every time, because there's a lot of genuine questions and you can't expect everyone to have read the same books or studies on it. I don't know what has been discredited or what has not myself. It's difficult and time consuming to look up every study and go through research and cross reference. In any case, it's a long process of reading for people to fully understand the issue and a lot of people are A: Not interested. B: Have made up their minds. C: Quite simply are unaware D: Don't have the time E: Actually there's too many reasons to list why people may not fully understand the issue, but you get the point. ;p People don't discuss in a calm and rational matter because frankly the science is lost on the majority of them. Science reporting and the horrible way its communicated to the public is a real thing. John Oliver's segment on it was spot on (though he was mostly talking about health related science) it applies to social science as well. I see you linked something by Rushton, don't do that if you want to be taken seriously. The guy is widely discredited and is/has worked for groups with racist agendas. Basically the lay public has 0 clue about the biology of our own species. I taught intro level courses in universities on this subject and ffs one semester two students came up to me after a lecture on DNA/Inheritance saying "they didn't know things besides humans have DNA". Our schooling system is trash tier for large segments of the population and its why a lot of myths about race persist. There is also a ton of shit psuedo science floating around (take the book by Nicholas Wade). Combine this with the failures of scientists to give easy access to their work? Yea you get a crap ton of scientific illiteracy with a lot of people who think they know shit but really don't (getting sources from secondary sources or bad sources). People often don't even read articles they just read the sexy headlines some journalistic entity thought up for the study. Now take this to some complex problem like "race" and population dyamics and socioeconomic situations and culture etc. It is something that is overly complex, requires a lot of research and personal thought, critical thinking. Who has time for it unless they have a reason to be? No instead its easier to take single studies out of the context of the full body of literature that supports whatever you already think then yell at the other side. Scholars have these conversations and progress is made but the trickle down just isn't there because....well the media lol. So now you have a lot of people with just a little bit of knowledge running around who want to give their opinions. Since most of these people are operating on incomplete or just plain bad information it easily causes friction, frustration, and anger as people can link sources they thought were good but the other side can link ones that support their side and discredit yours (the lay public is also not trained in closely examining sources to see how legit they are). People also suck at debating overall.. Especially in this case because people are heavily engaged in this stuff because it involves making society better (whatever your side that is generally your goal). This leads to people just going to the lowest form of debate which is ad hominem and just yelling past each other. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:11 SK.Testie wrote: There is a growing subsection of regressive leftists. People are fighting back against it. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U Mostly its people whining that they can’t be assholes anymore a no one wants to put up with their shitty opinions | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:09 Plansix wrote: Maybe you should do the same and stop blaming the mythical “regressive left” when people point out views you agree with are racist. Or is it just other people of other races who need to work on personal responsibility? No one in this thread has pointed out any view of mine and called me a racist for it? Care to elaborate? Also don't call it the 'mythical' regressive left. That's like if I called it the 'mythical' tea party movement. I tried to make it clear when I said of all backgrounds that everyone needs to work on personal responsibility, including white people. You've clearly missed the point though that in a perfect world this idea of different human races ceases to exist and people stop identifying collectives such as 'white people' or 'black people' because they only see others as 'people'. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:11 GreenHorizons wrote: You don't get to define "raycism" period. I specifically made it a different word to avoid that confusion. You have no clue what type of raycism or to what extent black people experience. You simply don't have a clue. Do yourself a favor and don't act like you do. The fuck are you talking about the first thing I said was that white people don't know what it's like to be black Also fuck you too black people don't know what it's like to be white either This is such a stupid process of thinking though if you truly want to get rid of all forms of racism and raycism and whatever the hell you want to call it, stop seeing me as a white person and simply see me as a person and I'll see you as a person. If everyone did this it wouldn't exist. We're all people. You are propagating the very problem youre fighting. It's idiotic. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote: No one in this thread has pointed out any view of mine and called me a racist for it? Care to elaborate? Also don't call it the 'mythical' regressive left. That's like if I called it the 'mythical' tea party movement. I tried to make it clear when I said of all backgrounds that everyone needs to work on personal responsibility, including white people. You've clearly missed the point though that in a perfect world this idea of different human races ceases to exist and people stop identifying collectives such as 'white people' or 'black people' because they only see others as 'people'. Why do you keep deflecting your personally responsibility for the views you hold You claim that you agree with no racist views or ideas, but then spend out defending Trump when people constantly point out that he is racist? You just blame the “regressive left”, “PC culture” and the media for the claims of racism, rather than accept responsibility for them? If you are going to whine about systematic racism removing personal responsibility, you need to accept you can’t thrown around your choice buzz words every time someone says something about Trump you don’t agree with. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
Everyone has an individual responsibility to treat others with respect regardless of skin color. To argue otherwise is fucking dumb | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23222 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote: This video says it all, no one is above racism. Everyone has an individual responsibility to treat others with respect regardless of skin color. To argue otherwise is fucking dumb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8UTj8lQJhY You act like the problem isn't centuries of white people not doing that. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:23 GreenHorizons wrote: You act like the problem isn't centuries of white people not doing that. And fails to realize he is doing the exact thing that those people in the video did. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:19 Plansix wrote: Why do you keep deflecting your personally responsibility for the views you hold You claim that you agree with no racist views or ideas, but then spend out defending Trump when people constantly point out that he is racist? You just blame the “regressive left”, “PC culture” and the media for the claims of racism, rather than accept responsibility for them? If you are going to whine about systematic racism removing personal responsibility, you need to accept you can’t thrown around your choice buzz words every time someone says something about Trump you don’t agree with. I'm going to ask you again what are these imaginary racist views I hold that I am not taking responsibility for? If you want me to stop using words that offend you like 'regressive left', then you should probably stop mudslinging yourself. This thread is full of people who love calling Trump and his supporters retarded, racist, incompetent, ruinous, and then whine up a storm when the label 'regressive left' gets used. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:12 Slaughter wrote: People don't discuss in a calm and rational matter because frankly the science is lost on the majority of them. Science reporting and the horrible way its communicated to the public is a real thing. John Oliver's segment on it was spot on (though he was mostly talking about health related science) it applies to social science as well. I see you linked something by Rushton, don't do that if you want to be taken seriously. The guy is widely discredited and is/has worked for groups with racist agendas. Basically the lay public has 0 clue about the biology of our own species. I taught intro level courses in universities on this subject and ffs one semester two students came up to me after a lecture on DNA/Inheritance saying "they didn't know things besides humans have DNA". Our schooling system is trash tier for large segments of the population and its why a lot of myths about race persist. There is also a ton of shit psuedo science floating around (take the book by Nicholas Wade). Combine this with the failures of scientists to give easy access to their work? Yea you get a crap ton of scientific illiteracy with a lot of people who think they know shit but really don't (getting sources from secondary sources or bad sources). People often don't even read articles they just read the sexy headlines some journalistic entity thought up for the study. Now take this to some complex problem like "race" and population dyamics and socioeconomic situations and culture etc. It is something that is overly complex, requires a lot of research and personal thought, critical thinking. Who has time for it unless they have a reason to be? No instead its easier to take single studies out of the context of the full body of literature that supports whatever you already think then yell at the other side. Scholars have these conversations and progress is made but the trickle down just isn't there because....well the media lol. So now you have a lot of people with just a little bit of knowledge running around who want to give their opinions. Since most of these people are operating on incomplete or just plain bad information it easily causes friction, frustration, and anger as people can link sources they thought were good but the other side can link ones that support their side and discredit yours (the lay public is also not trained in closely examining sources to see how legit they are). People also suck at debating overall.. Especially in this case because people are heavily engaged in this stuff because it involves making society better (whatever your side that is generally your goal). This leads to people just going to the lowest form of debate which is ad hominem and just yelling past each other. Excellent post. And yeah, every time The Economist runs an article that gives some pseudoscience their readers are in an uproar because they're well aware of how things get lost in translation and sensationalized in the media. Though their readers will get into an uproar if you tell them the sky is blue. Inb4 NASA link on why the sky is blue. etc. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:23 GreenHorizons wrote: You act like the problem isn't centuries of white people not doing that. Yeah, the entire western world should be held accountable because of the 5% of rich white people, who have been dead for more than a hundred years, owned black slaves because it was cheaper labor. Arabs and asians also had slaves, and treated them way worse than the west ever did. Not to mention it was the west that ended slavism for good. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:26 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I'm going to ask you again what are these imaginary racist views I hold that I am not taking responsibility for? If you want me to stop using words that offend you like 'regressive left', then you should probably stop mudslinging yourself. This thread is full of people who love calling Trump and his supporters retarded, racist, incompetent, ruinous, and then whine up a storm when the label 'regressive left' gets used. Considering you refuse to even accept Trump’s views as racist, I doubt you will ever accept that yours might be as well. And considering you control the goal posts on what you consider racist, you are asking for something I will never be able to provide you. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:23 GreenHorizons wrote: You act like the problem isn't centuries of white people not doing that. This is really difficult for you isn't it? ![[image loading]](https://i.redditmedia.com/krVXxJ9JuIy-wCz1MF1F-SOrpZwGVUjd5YlOOtXj3VY.jpg?w=450&s=34496ad4d1c57ec2bafc5a9740ce2212) Something like 1.6% of white people owned slaves. Stop arguing white people held you down. When 'white people' began colonizing Africa and various parts of the world, 'black people' sold other 'black people' into slavery and had been fighting wars with each other just as long as white people have. You act like slavery is 'white man oppressing black man' when for thousands of years slavery has existed in all forms. In the Roman Empire unless you were Roman you were a slave, whether you were Greek or Germanic, or Gaullic or Egyptian or Numidian. I am not responsible for something that one of my ancestors might have done (I don't believe my ancestors were even in America at the time of slavery). Stop blaming me for 'white people' holding you down. You live in the 21st century. The only person holding you back is yourself. You're literally arguing with me on a forum for hours of your freetime you clearly are afforded the privilege of living in a first world country you make your own destiny stop blaming everyone else for your failures. | ||
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oBlade
United States5583 Posts
On June 10 2016 03:23 GreenHorizons wrote: You act like the problem isn't centuries of white people not doing that. Nobody fucking did that for millennia. No amount of protesting will ever make history any different. | ||
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