In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On June 10 2016 02:53 biology]major wrote: Anyone can be racist, get that nonsense out of here. The word racism refers to a belief system, not about the implications on society. "Systemic" racism is also a poisonous thought process, as it undermines personal responsibility.
The bold part is the most important point in eliminating racism as a whole.
Stop attributing responsibility to collectives and be responsible for yourself. If everyone did this racism wouldn't exist. Problem is people in general, from all sorts of backgrounds, are too stupid to do it.
Maybe you should do the same and stop blaming the mythical “regressive left” when people point out views you agree with are racist. Or is it just other people of other races who need to work on personal responsibility?
No one in this thread has pointed out any view of mine and called me a racist for it?
Care to elaborate?
Also don't call it the 'mythical' regressive left.
That's like if I called it the 'mythical' tea party movement.
I tried to make it clear when I said of all backgrounds that everyone needs to work on personal responsibility, including white people. You've clearly missed the point though that in a perfect world this idea of different human races ceases to exist and people stop identifying collectives such as 'white people' or 'black people' because they only see others as 'people'.
Why do you keep deflecting your personally responsibility for the views you hold You claim that you agree with no racist views or ideas, but then spend out defending Trump when people constantly point out that he is racist? You just blame the “regressive left”, “PC culture” and the media for the claims of racism, rather than accept responsibility for them?
If you are going to whine about systematic racism removing personal responsibility, you need to accept you can’t thrown around your choice buzz words every time someone says something about Trump you don’t agree with.
I'm going to ask you again what are these imaginary racist views I hold that I am not taking responsibility for?
If you want me to stop using words that offend you like 'regressive left', then you should probably stop mudslinging yourself. This thread is full of people who love calling Trump and his supporters retarded, racist, incompetent, ruinous, and then whine up a storm when the label 'regressive left' gets used.
Considering you refuse to even accept Trump’s views as racist, I doubt you will ever accept that yours might be as well. And considering you control the goal posts on what you consider racist, you are asking for something I will never be able to provide you.
If Trump has done racist things in his business prior to the election I wouldn't know about that I can't defend it.
Things he has said this election cycle are less racist than things people have said in this thread.
You still haven't cited any example of a racist view I've held you just keep calling me racist over and over it's really pathetic then you whine about me mentioning the existence of a 'regressive left' jesus.
"Well I won't provide an example cause youre wrong on trump so you haven't said anything racist but youre still probably a racist you just dont realize it'
Yeah, the entire western world should be held accountable because of the 5% of rich white people, who have been dead for more than a hundred years, owned black slaves because it was cheaper labor.
I totally forgot that segregation never happened, or the KKK, or the Aryan brotherhood, or the countless police up to and including many chiefs, and so on. I forgot racism ended after slavery. My bad, racism ends when white people say it did #facts.
I honestly didn't realize we had slipped so far back we were rehashing tired lines like "slavery was a long time ago, get over it". At least now I know I shouldn't engage with folks so oblivious to not even see why that's such a remarkably ignorant remark to make.
On June 10 2016 03:35 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Internet race arguments are so pointless. There are no resolutions to race conflicts, only maybe some policy that bend the curve towards progress.
I miss the Bernie arguments. Here is a good vine some of you will like. Bernie reacting to Obama's endorsement of HRC:
Yeah, the entire western world should be held accountable because of the 5% of rich white people, who have been dead for more than a hundred years, owned black slaves because it was cheaper labor.
I totally forgot that segregation never happened, or the KKK, or the Aryan brotherhood, or the countless police up to and including many chiefs, and so on. I forgot racism ended after slavery. My bad, racism ends when white people say it did #facts.
I think his argument is more this. If you dress and look like Obama, you will not experience much racism in your life these days. If you dress and look like Flava Flav, you're probably going to be not taken seriously.
I'd argue that almost no one who dresses business casual experiences racism. Now, not everyone can afford that. But I'd also argue that anyone who wears fitting t-shirt and jeans will also experience less racism than anyone who talks "like a nigga" or has their pants hanging low.
Again, literal incredibly stereotypical gay black friend in highschool, says he didn't experience racism if I ask him on facebook right now. In an all white town. And that was well over a decade ago. Again, Canada is different. It's going to be regional as well.
So "all black people experience racism" itself is a meme. Kids in Detroit may have a very different situation from kids in Annapolis (a small quaint looking town). I'm not even saying they don't experience it, but probably very, very different degrees.
So breaking up the cycle of violence in those areas would be awesome. But again, I'm not noble enough to risk my life to do it. I'd argue it has to come within, and a greater degree of personal and moral responsibility needs to be put in place. And yes, I agree with Solar the the left's current way is making more people racist. People who gladly supported Obama are now.. "The fuck? I have black friends, haven't had a racist thought in my life, supported Obama, and I'm still racist? Fuck you lefties." I'd argue that even if you are racist, if you're willing to elect another man of another race into the most powerful position in the world.. you're probably not that racist lol. So in essence by continually race baiting, the left is bringing a thought to them that had never even existed tbh. Because they want definitions changed to suit their current progressive goals.
Yeah, the entire western world should be held accountable because of the 5% of rich white people, who have been dead for more than a hundred years, owned black slaves because it was cheaper labor.
I totally forgot that segregation never happened, or the KKK, or the Aryan brotherhood, or the countless police up to and including many chiefs, and so on. I forgot racism ended after slavery. My bad, racism ends when white people say it did #facts.
Do you want me to apologize for what some white people did 200 years ago because I'm white?
Would that make you feel better?
Your entire worldview leads to nothing but hatred towards 'white people', and hypocritically, the propagation of more racism and segregation.
On June 10 2016 03:35 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Internet race arguments are so pointless. There are no resolutions to race conflicts, only maybe some policy that bend the curve towards progress.
I miss the Bernie arguments. Here is a good vine some of you will like. Bernie reacting to Obama's endorsement of HRC:
On June 10 2016 03:35 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Internet race arguments are so pointless. There are no resolutions to race conflicts, only maybe some policy that bend the curve towards progress.
I miss the Bernie arguments. Here is a good vine some of you will like. Bernie reacting to Obama's endorsement of HRC:
On June 10 2016 02:53 GreenHorizons wrote: Well clearly no one here has any clue what BLM actually is based on how you talk about it. Innocent people are being murdered by the people paid to protect them and you guys get bent about traffic. Just sad.
On June 10 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
On June 10 2016 02:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 10 2016 02:18 Plansix wrote: Systematic Racism against white people is possible in China. Or another area where non-whites control the system of power. A black person can be bigoted against a white person in the US.
But systemic racism against whites as a whole does not exist in the US at any significantly measurable scale. We hold the majority of power in the country and that benefits us over other demographics.
Just going to have to come up with a new word. Then they can't try to force the old white guy definition down the throat of the people who actually study/deal with it. Being called racist, or being told that black people can't be racist toward white people is the closest many white people come to feeling what racism is like, it's not even a fraction as bad as racism, but look how disturbing it is for them.
I wish just for like a year they could wake up in a world where they actually experienced racism so they could understand the difference thoroughly.
This is so incredibly racist and hypocritical I don't even know how you can seriously be saying these things.
It's almost as bad as when Bernie literally said in a debate that white people don't know what it's like to be poor and live in poverty.
What? White people don't know what it's like to be black (or experience real raycism [spelled different so you don't confuse it with your word]) like getting a bad flu doesn't mean you understand what it's like to have cancer and chemo.
Believe me, I'd rather they just stop being jerks, but we've been waiting for that ship for a loooooong time now.
I agree White people don't know what it's like to be black.
Most black people today haven't experienced 'real raycism' either. That has long since been eradicated and named taboo in our mainstream culture, and rightly so.
You show me a KKK 'raycist' you're showing me a terrible person. I agree with you.
I do not think that type of person exists anymore. I grew up knowing people who I would say are 'racist' because they make 'black jokes' when no black people were around, but would never disrespect a black person or treat them like they weren't a human. I do not think that type of mindset exists in America anymore, it's considered a taboo of our culture to even think like that let alone share it with others.
You're literally being the racist you hate. "I'd rather white people (like all white people are the same) stop being jerks, but we've (all black people) been waiting for that ship for a loooong time now.
You are the racist in this thread. Stop thinking in collectives based on race.
I don't think racism will ever 100% die off until we discover alien life and only then will we start thinking of everyone as the 'human race' instead of 'black race white race asian race' because people will have some actual fucking racism against some protoss and zerg to throw around.
I agree with most of what you have written. Although, i do disagree that most racism has died off. Sure, there are no openly violent hate groups like the KKK, but racism still exists and it is a lot more subtle which could be even more dangerous.
Racism is a huge issue, but i disagree with the left's approach to the issue. I believe their approach is creating more racism and inspiring people who were on the fringe of being racist to become racist and inspiring racists to be more racist and vocal about it.
Assigning blame to white people or whoever doesn't help the situation. We must extinguish the significance of race and learn to see each other the same. However, like you said that provably will not happen until there is an exterior threat we can be united against. People are war like creatures who constantly need a common enemy.
I also agree with GH. As white people, we will never understand the degree of racism that a black person experiences. However, i don't think discriminately targeting white people and assigning blame to them is the answer. The cycle just repeats itself where everyone needs a group to demonize or hate and it just seems that need is redirecting itself. Ideologically, i would prefer that we all could stop placing so much importance to race and see ourselves as individuals first. I admit it is a pipe dream, but there has to be a better way.
Unfortunately, a lot of white people ruin it for the rest of us, due to their inability to empathize with minorities. I think a lot of whites feel accused when they are grouped as a white and privileged racist. People hate being accused and i think it is having the opposite effect of it's original intention.
Kind of rambling and don't know if i am making sense. It is hard to formulate my thoughts on my phone while working
On June 10 2016 02:06 Surth wrote: The thing is - and I mean this without malice - you don't get to decide whether you a racist or not. Much like I don't get to decide whether I am an asshole or not. You may not feel like you are being racist, that doesn't mean you're not. (and I'm not saying you are.)
I like how people with dicks get to self-identify as women, but when it comes to whether someone is racist, we'll let the community decide.
Haha spot on ! Racism all the bullshit around it has gone too far. GGTemplar is also 100% right ; stop blaming the entire white "race" (like there is any unity) for the inhumane crime of a minority, pressed on by the desire to maximize profit.
I'm waiting for Explosions in the Sky to start their show in Paris. First heard about them on TL (in the old music thread I believe) so I thought about you dear friends.
Yeah, the entire western world should be held accountable because of the 5% of rich white people, who have been dead for more than a hundred years, owned black slaves because it was cheaper labor.
I totally forgot that segregation never happened, or the KKK, or the Aryan brotherhood, or the countless police up to and including many chiefs, and so on. I forgot racism ended after slavery. My bad, racism ends when white people say it did #facts.
Do you want me to apologize for what some white people did 200 years ago because I'm white?
Would that make you feel better?
Your entire worldview leads to nothing but hatred towards 'white people', and hypocritically, the propagation of more racism and segregation.
I advise you pick up a history book and realize slavery was only a few centuries of the many that white people didn't treat people of different colors as fully human.
There are plenty of people who are still alive and personally remember when the blatant dehumanization of black people was an everyday experience. Pretending like it was all 200 years ago is some grade school level engagement on the topic.
On June 10 2016 03:44 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Tell you what Green, some racism against black people still exists in America. I'm sorry I said it didn't.
I think it's weaker than it ever has been in history though and it will continue to shrink as society continues to modernize.
Is that better.
It would be better for you to admit you haven't a clue what racism is like for black people.
On June 10 2016 02:53 GreenHorizons wrote: Well clearly no one here has any clue what BLM actually is based on how you talk about it. Innocent people are being murdered by the people paid to protect them and you guys get bent about traffic. Just sad.
On June 10 2016 02:34 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
On June 10 2016 02:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 10 2016 02:18 Plansix wrote: Systematic Racism against white people is possible in China. Or another area where non-whites control the system of power. A black person can be bigoted against a white person in the US.
But systemic racism against whites as a whole does not exist in the US at any significantly measurable scale. We hold the majority of power in the country and that benefits us over other demographics.
Just going to have to come up with a new word. Then they can't try to force the old white guy definition down the throat of the people who actually study/deal with it. Being called racist, or being told that black people can't be racist toward white people is the closest many white people come to feeling what racism is like, it's not even a fraction as bad as racism, but look how disturbing it is for them.
I wish just for like a year they could wake up in a world where they actually experienced racism so they could understand the difference thoroughly.
This is so incredibly racist and hypocritical I don't even know how you can seriously be saying these things.
It's almost as bad as when Bernie literally said in a debate that white people don't know what it's like to be poor and live in poverty.
What? White people don't know what it's like to be black (or experience real raycism [spelled different so you don't confuse it with your word]) like getting a bad flu doesn't mean you understand what it's like to have cancer and chemo.
Believe me, I'd rather they just stop being jerks, but we've been waiting for that ship for a loooooong time now.
I agree White people don't know what it's like to be black.
Most black people today haven't experienced 'real raycism' either. That has long since been eradicated and named taboo in our mainstream culture, and rightly so.
You show me a KKK 'raycist' you're showing me a terrible person. I agree with you.
I do not think that type of person exists anymore. I grew up knowing people who I would say are 'racist' because they make 'black jokes' when no black people were around, but would never disrespect a black person or treat them like they weren't a human. I do not think that type of mindset exists in America anymore, it's considered a taboo of our culture to even think like that let alone share it with others.
You're literally being the racist you hate. "I'd rather white people (like all white people are the same) stop being jerks, but we've (all black people) been waiting for that ship for a loooong time now.
You are the racist in this thread. Stop thinking in collectives based on race.
I don't think racism will ever 100% die off until we discover alien life and only then will we start thinking of everyone as the 'human race' instead of 'black race white race asian race' because people will have some actual fucking racism against some protoss and zerg to throw around.
I agree with most of what you have written. Although, i do disagree that most racism has died off. Sure, there are no openly violent hate groups like the KKK, but racism still exists and it is a lot more subtle which could be even more dangerous.
Racism is a huge issue, but i disagree with the left's approach to the issue. I believe their approach is creating more racism and inspiring people who were on the fringe of being racist to become racist and inspiring racists to be more racist and vocal about it.
Assigning blame to white people or whoever doesn't help the situation. We must extinguish the significance of race and learn to see each other the same. However, like you said that provably will not happen until there is an exterior threat we can be united against. People are war like creatures who constantly need a common enemy.
I also agree with GH. As white people, we will never understand the degree of racism that a black person experiences. However, i don't think discriminately targetting white people and assigning blame to them is the answer. The cycle just repeats itself where everyone needs a group to demonize or hate and it just seems that need is redirecting itself. Idealogically, i would prefer that we all could stop placing so much important ance to race and see ourselves as individuals first. I admit it is a pipe dream, but there has to be a better way.
Unfortunately, a lot of white people ruin it for the rest of us, due to their inability to empathize with minorities. I think a lot of whites feel accused when they are grouped as a white and privileged racist. People hate being accused and i think it is having the opposite effect of it's original intention.
Kind of rambling and dont know if i am making sense. It is hard to formulate my thoughts on my phone while working
I'll admit I agree with everything you've said in this post.
Every single black person I have meet or listened to has said racism is still an issue and has been having a resurgence. That the idea that it will die off with the old racist of the pasts was incorrect.
Yeah, the entire western world should be held accountable because of the 5% of rich white people, who have been dead for more than a hundred years, owned black slaves because it was cheaper labor.
I totally forgot that segregation never happened, or the KKK, or the Aryan brotherhood, or the countless police up to and including many chiefs, and so on. I forgot racism ended after slavery. My bad, racism ends when white people say it did #facts.
Do you want me to apologize for what some white people did 200 years ago because I'm white?
Would that make you feel better?
Your entire worldview leads to nothing but hatred towards 'white people', and hypocritically, the propagation of more racism and segregation.
I advise you pick up a history book and realize slavery was only a few centuries of the many that white people didn't treat people of different colors as fully human.
There are plenty of people who are still alive and personally remember when the blatant dehumanization of black people was an everyday experience. Pretending like it was all 200 years ago is some grade school level engagement on the topic.
Fair enough, it was still widespread even 50 years ago perhaps in the deep south. I knew my grandparents and they were not a part of it.
I am not personally responsible for acts I did not do. I do not believe in collective moral responsibility and associating collective blame to collectives as it's own ontological object.
If you want to blame someone go defile some graves of old white people see if I care. Stop acting like 'black people' and 'white people' are unique ontological entities. They are nothing more than the net collective of associated individuals.
Racism isn't only about calling people racial slurs or hating them. A big part of it is unconscious. Where people think "hey I have no problem with X groups" but when it comes to make lets say hiring decisions they will be unconsciously biased against a person of color because of their name for example while reading a resume. People have a lot of these small biases that tend to favor whites over minorities and as a system as a whole it has a lot of these small things that might not seem a big of a deal in isolation but taken together make it that its obvious as a group whites tend to be favored. Add in like heavily slanted things like the criminal justice system and the historical baggage and well....we are getting better but we aren't there yet.
Yeah, the entire western world should be held accountable because of the 5% of rich white people, who have been dead for more than a hundred years, owned black slaves because it was cheaper labor.
I totally forgot that segregation never happened, or the KKK, or the Aryan brotherhood, or the countless police up to and including many chiefs, and so on. I forgot racism ended after slavery. My bad, racism ends when white people say it did #facts.
Do you want me to apologize for what some white people did 200 years ago because I'm white?
Would that make you feel better?
Your entire worldview leads to nothing but hatred towards 'white people', and hypocritically, the propagation of more racism and segregation.
I advise you pick up a history book and realize slavery was only a few centuries of the many that white people didn't treat people of different colors as fully human.
There are plenty of people who are still alive and personally remember when the blatant dehumanization of black people was an everyday experience. Pretending like it was all 200 years ago is some grade school level engagement on the topic.
Yeah, the entire western world should be held accountable because of the 5% of rich white people, who have been dead for more than a hundred years, owned black slaves because it was cheaper labor.
I totally forgot that segregation never happened, or the KKK, or the Aryan brotherhood, or the countless police up to and including many chiefs, and so on. I forgot racism ended after slavery. My bad, racism ends when white people say it did #facts.
Do you want me to apologize for what some white people did 200 years ago because I'm white?
Would that make you feel better?
Your entire worldview leads to nothing but hatred towards 'white people', and hypocritically, the propagation of more racism and segregation.
I advise you pick up a history book and realize slavery was only a few centuries of the many that white people didn't treat people of different colors as fully human.
There are plenty of people who are still alive and personally remember when the blatant dehumanization of black people was an everyday experience. Pretending like it was all 200 years ago is some grade school level engagement on the topic.
Fair enough, it was still widespread even 50 years ago perhaps in the deep south. I knew my grandparents and they were not a part of it.
I am not personally responsible for acts I did not do. I do not believe in collective moral responsibility and associating collective blame to collectives as it's own ontological object.
If you want to blame someone go defile some graves of old white people see if I care. Stop acting like 'black people' and 'white people' are unique ontological entities. They are nothing more than the net collective of associated individuals.
What have you done to reach out to racist white people to get them to stop being racist?
EPT
