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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3575
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/275546-obama-warns-dems-against-tea-party-mentality | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:08 oneofthem wrote: thanks obama http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/275546-obama-warns-dems-against-tea-party-mentality This is plainly a frontal assault on the #BernieOrBust fanatics demanding single payer and free college. Obama's call for realistic pragmatism is anathema to Bernie's claim that his revolution will flip Republicans into supporting social-democracy. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22702 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:17 CannonsNCarriers wrote: This is plainly a frontal assault on the #BernieOrBust fanatics demanding single payer and free college. Obama's call for realistic pragmatism is anathema to Bernie's claim that his revolution will flip Republicans into supporting social-democracy. Republicans went full obstructionist because a black president could not be allowed to succeed. How bad do you think they will react to a communist (I know he isnt, its the image) in the white house. Not that I believe this should stop people from voting for a candidate they support, but you need to be realistic about what he could get done. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:17 CannonsNCarriers wrote: This is plainly a frontal assault on the #BernieOrBust fanatics demanding single payer and free college. Obama's call for realistic pragmatism is anathema to Bernie's claim that his revolution will flip Republicans into supporting social-democracy. No matter how many times I hear it, I still can't understand how people think this is possible. It's just so interesting to see such an energetic group pay no consideration for people who hear them out and aren't convinced. I always see Bernistas talk about this and that as if it's just a matter of someone being able to hear what Bernie has to say. A big idea in the whole revolution thing is educating, reaching out etc. "If you can just call enough people on the phone, bernie will win!" and other similar nonsense. | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:29 Mohdoo wrote: No matter how many times I hear it, I still can't understand how people think this is possible. It's just so interesting to see such an energetic group pay no consideration for people who hear them out and aren't convinced. I always see Bernistas talk about this and that as if it's just a matter of someone being able to hear what Bernie has to say. A big idea in the whole revolution thing is educating, reaching out etc. "If you can just call enough people on the phone, bernie will win!" and other similar nonsense. ~"We are going to make them pay a heavy political price" ... "It is the monied interests" ... Bernie has this Communist mindset that the Republicans are deluded about what they believe by monied interests. Republicans really do believe in limited government (when it helps people that don't look like Republicans). Yeah, some of it is being tricked by the Donor Class, but not all of it. I think Marx or the Marxists called it "false consciousness". | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:42 oneofthem wrote: this situation on the left is broader than sandernistas' affection for bernie. it is rather their distrust of the system, including government, law and economic institutions. this distrust is also from an outside perspective which means it is not expressed in terms of policy details but at the group entity level. Yeah, and I think it is important to consider. However, the disconnect comes from when they say "If someone isn't in favor of ___ or ____, then they are supporting corruption and business as usual". But lots of people want money out of politics *and* disagree with a federal $15 minimum wage. They see their position as the ONLY possible conclusion someone against corruption could come to. An interesting study: Have a group watch a Bernie Sanders speech and then also watch a similar length of Clinton's Benghazi hearing. Ask people who they want to be president. Anyone who watches that Benghazi hearing without an insane respect for Clinton is nuts. That hearing highlighted why that hearing even existed to begin with. She's so formidable. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:32 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Bernie has this Communist mindset that the Republicans are deluded about what they believe by monied interests. Republicans really do believe in limited government (when it helps people that don't look like Republicans). Yeah, some of it is being tricked by the Donor Class, but not all of it. This is kind of an outdated debate. Le Donald has proven that about 35% of GOP voters don't give a shit about conservative ideas or limited government or any of that and are just going to sign on to the most authoritarian, nativist (and maybe a little racist) party/candidate. That's a significant chunk (more than most Republicans used to admit), but not a majority (less than Dems like to think). The other two thirds are basically evenly divided among the Huckabee crowd and the Romney crowd, both ideological but in differing ways. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 09 2016 04:09 Yoav wrote: This is kind of an outdated debate. Le Donald has proven that about 35% of GOP voters don't give a shit about conservative ideas or limited government or any of that and are just going to sign on to the most authoritarian, nativist (and maybe a little racist) party/candidate. That's a significant chunk (more than most Republicans used to admit), but not a majority (less than Dems like to think). The other two thirds are basically evenly divided among the Huckabee crowd and the Romney crowd, both ideological but in differing ways. I think this is a great analysis of the current GOP demographic. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:24 oneofthem wrote: there is considerable space for strategic thinking towards an economy with less rentseeking and more equality and quality jobs. but this shit is hard and also not ready for prime time. Rentseeking is basically Bernie's platform... | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24504 Posts
As for the 538 thing I'm going to have to start taking more screen shots, somehow since the last WA delegates were added, Bernie has lost a delegate and Hillary gained one. Not sure if that's Missouri or something else? 1.5 million for New York turn out seems low too. That's just a few hundred thousand more than WI even though there's more than 3x the people. I think people are realizing it's not a good idea to send someone with net unfavorables and who more people find dishonest than honest into a general. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Hillary is just the default choice because they have no one better. She wouldn't win in the primary against some promising candidate similar to Obama. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:49 Mohdoo wrote: Yeah, and I think it is important to consider. However, the disconnect comes from when they say "If someone isn't in favor of ___ or ____, then they are supporting corruption and business as usual". But lots of people want money out of politics *and* disagree with a federal $15 minimum wage. They see their position as the ONLY possible conclusion someone against corruption could come to. An interesting study: Have a group watch a Bernie Sanders speech and then also watch a similar length of Clinton's Benghazi hearing. Ask people who they want to be president. Anyone who watches that Benghazi hearing without an insane respect for Clinton is nuts. That hearing highlighted why that hearing even existed to begin with. She's so formidable. i have in mind the guilt by association attacks vs people that leftists use. not only vs hillary but vs all kinds of people. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24504 Posts
On April 09 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote: GH underestimates the apathy of NY. Pretty sure the turnout will be larger, despite lines/problems that make WI look like a well run primary. I'm not going to buy the "we were surprised by the large turnout" line yet again this election. I mean here's when Democrats that didn't want to suppress the vote should of started talking solutions in future states. Surprised ticklish didn't know about this. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On April 09 2016 04:39 LegalLord wrote: Dem party is almost as fucked as the Republican one when it comes to quality presidential candidates. I could see they were in trouble when the DNC last year was a wash when it came to promoting good future candidates. It depends on what you mean by "quality presidential candidates". Personally, I consider a quality presidential candidate someone's who's competent, knowledgeable, experienced, and is the closest match between aligning with my views as much as possible and being sufficiently electable to win the election. Hillary fits the bill perfectly. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On April 09 2016 03:49 Mohdoo wrote: An interesting study: Have a group watch a Bernie Sanders speech and then also watch a similar length of Clinton's Benghazi hearing. Ask people who they want to be president. Anyone who watches that Benghazi hearing without an insane respect for Clinton is nuts. That hearing highlighted why that hearing even existed to begin with. She's so formidable. I can't disagree with that. But on the other hand, if you watch her play identity politics or flip-flop on issues (e.g. in one of those video compilations) you might feel pretty disgusted and annoyed by it. Not that Hillary is bad, but people don't dislike her without reason. On April 09 2016 04:47 kwizach wrote: It depends on what you mean by "quality presidential candidates". Personally, I consider a quality presidential candidate someone's who's competent, knowledgeable, experienced, and is the closest match between aligning with my views as much as possible and being sufficiently electable to win the election. Hillary fits the bill perfectly. If Hillary were fighting against a genuinely strong Republican challenger she would have a lot of trouble winning, and she most certainly will breed resentment that won't help in the midterm elections. Some other, stronger, candidate might have had a better chance at remedying that. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
idk who i would want instead. daron acemoglu? lol | ||
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