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I did play in the beta and I remember , but still I think it was mostly cause tanks basically 1 or 2 hit most of Z's ground units except for roachs which made it near impossible to actually engage a terran.
Yeah well that's how tanks were in brood war and the other races dealt with it just fine.
I have to agree with the other posters who said that the size of the early maps made tanks way too strong vs zerg (which is true I remember steppes of war tank pushes on the side of the natural). It might be time for tanks to get a damage boost.
Oh yeah, and probably the "unit crumpling" that exists in sc2 was probably another reason for that nerf. But i think it's fair to say that if the terrans can split their marines to avoid banes, then zerg should split their army to avoid all their stuff dying in a big blob of goo.
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On August 25 2012 06:11 [Azn]Nada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 06:08 DinoMight wrote:
Saying tanks are bad because a unit that is designed precisely to counter them counters them is pretty silly IMO.
Tanks are still very good when used correctly. If you have the right number of stim MMM in front of them, they can be effective even against protoss. Tanks in defensive positions on the high ground shred Protoss units.
Comparing them to Colossi is not fair for several reasons. First of all, Colo are significantly more expensive, and the upgrade costs twice as much. Secondly, Vikings can fly over an entire ground army and attack the Colossus head on. This is different then with tanks, where the Terran's bio ball is physically standing between your units and the tanks. Tanks would be AMAZING if "a unit" was designed to counter them. The problem is, 50% of the zerg units directly counter them (other than banelings, everything is cost-effective against tanks) and protoss have zealots, immortals, and tempests, all of which are designed to rape tanks. It's rediculous
Tanks are cost effective against much that zerg has, they are the reason (and marauders) that mass roach does not work.
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On August 25 2012 06:10 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 06:04 dabom88 wrote:On August 25 2012 05:49 Esportsfanatic wrote:
And like why the fuck can´t Broodlords shoot with Ultralisks? Because they're called Brood Lords, not Ultra Lords. We need a "Greatest Spire" that will allow you to morph Brood Lords into Ultra Lords ;-) .
LOL
I would pay money if someone made a mod to do this. Make the Greatest spire 500/500, and ultra lords evolve from broodlords (then it'd be like chameleon-->charizard). That would be epic.
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On August 25 2012 06:08 [Azn]Nada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:29 aksfjh wrote:Patch 1.1.0
Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored).
Siege mode upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored). That's why. Everytime I see this, I want to punch my monitor. Gone are the hilariously amazing BW days of 70 Damage Siege tanks that cost 2 supply; now they do HALF the damage, shitty as fuck upgrades, cost 3 supply, and 25 more gas. And on the Blizzard site, it still says SC2 tanks are more expensive but "all the greeeaaattttt development the Dominion has done makes the tank worth it" what the FUCK did they spend all the time upgrading the tanks to do? Deal less damage, get countered by more units, and have more resource cost? It's simply rediculous. Legit, Dustin balder probably got shot in the face with one when he was a kid. I'm really amazed when terrans try to pull out tanks; other than TvT, their only current legitamate use is vs. banelings. In HOTS, think about what counters them: zerglings, swarm hosts (induces constant friendly-fire), vipers with abduct and dark swarm, mutalisks, broodlords, etc. More than HALF THE ZERG ARSENAL IS BUILT TO COUNTER TANKS. Protoss have immortals and zealots (which is why tanks are pretty useless in PvT in the first place), and now we get to see the 22 range tempest make tanks look like little shits. Tanks are simply retarded atm. useless + retarded
Except top-tier Terrans use them all the time in TvZ. They are nowhere near useless or retarded when positioned properly in TvZ or TvT. This might change in HotS, but in WoL they're fine in every match-up besides TvP. Honestly, the fact that the vulture doesn't exist is a bigger nerf to the seige tank than any nerfs they've received since Beta.
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On August 25 2012 06:12 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 06:11 [Azn]Nada wrote:On August 25 2012 06:08 DinoMight wrote:
Saying tanks are bad because a unit that is designed precisely to counter them counters them is pretty silly IMO.
Tanks are still very good when used correctly. If you have the right number of stim MMM in front of them, they can be effective even against protoss. Tanks in defensive positions on the high ground shred Protoss units.
Comparing them to Colossi is not fair for several reasons. First of all, Colo are significantly more expensive, and the upgrade costs twice as much. Secondly, Vikings can fly over an entire ground army and attack the Colossus head on. This is different then with tanks, where the Terran's bio ball is physically standing between your units and the tanks. Tanks would be AMAZING if "a unit" was designed to counter them. The problem is, 50% of the zerg units directly counter them (other than banelings, everything is cost-effective against tanks) and protoss have zealots, immortals, and tempests, all of which are designed to rape tanks. It's rediculous Tanks are cost effective against much that zerg has, they are the reason (and marauders) that mass roach does not work.
Tanks will split with roaches 50/50 for cost if it was just pure tank vs. roach. But even then, you have to consider generally speaking, you are gonna have ~1 tank for every 4-5 roaches he has, at which point its not even close. Mass roach is a viable strat, its just that infestor ling is SO much more effective theres no point.
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i dont know what kind of thread is this..i can write why reapers are bad... or hydras... or...( can't think of toss unit)
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yeah you're right they suck
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How does a thread like this survive on TL for so long? Why doesn't someone just go make a thread about how hydras suck now?
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I personnally think tanks are perfectly balanced right now, but they should still boost it (and nerf something else to even things out) as the siege tank or mech style in general relies on controlling a zone with a small amount of units, thus making deathball style less functionnal. What made broodwar so exciting for a huge amount of fans was the dynamism and constant micro battles everywhere, as engaging with your main army into a siege line was foolish, thus forcing players to rely on creativity, multitasking and multi-pronged attacks.
Making the tank more powerful would help break the SC2 deathball style and make every match up involving terrans more dynamic and exciting. I know this is just a matter of preference, but I kind of fear HOTS for this exact reason: it's heading more and more into being a 200 army slaughterfest «it's over in 1 second» with those new anti tank units.
I dont know what kind of buff they should receive, as every small change can drastically change the game balance O_o.
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On August 25 2012 06:19 densha wrote:
How does a thread like this survive on TL for so long? Why doesn't someone just go make a thread about how hydras suck now? Because hydras are getting buffed in HoTS. Same with reapers.
I'm not just saying buff tanks to 70 damage tomorrow and everything will be good. Obviously that would be dumb but in HoTS the balance is being somewhat reset and like others have said tanks we're mainly balanced on small maps like steppes of war where everyone was using old BW zerg strats like hydras in TvZ.
Honestly if nothing else I want the tank buffed so Blizzard can nerf the Warhound so mech will be more like mech in HoTS instead of 1a. I think Protoss players would rather see stronger tanks than some fast walking mech a move marauder.
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On August 25 2012 06:22 -Switch- wrote:
They aren't?? lol
Depends on viewpoint I guess, but if you think siege tanks are full of rapage in Sc2, go back and play BW and you'll find a whole new world of imba. ;D
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I think they're pretty well balanced in TvZ. In TvP, it's just that P has way too many counters to tanks. Immortals, chargelots, colossi, voidrays.... it just seems like Blizzard really didn't want to see tanks in mid/late game TvP.
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Sure a siege line can trade with most other lategame ground armies, but tanks just simply have more cons (immobile army, careful siegeing, spotting, gas-heavy etc) than other lategame armies.
Considering their cons they should be abit stronger tbh
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I really wish Smart AI firing wasn't in the game for some reason...
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I play zerg and believe me that the most anoying unit in the all game is tanks, but i understant why people complain in TvP.
Not hard to get there :|
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On August 25 2012 06:12 Fluid wrote:Show nested quote +
I did play in the beta and I remember , but still I think it was mostly cause tanks basically 1 or 2 hit most of Z's ground units except for roachs which made it near impossible to actually engage a terran.
Yeah well that's how tanks were in brood war and the other races dealt with it just fine. I have to agree with the other posters who said that the size of the early maps made tanks way too strong vs zerg (which is true I remember steppes of war tank pushes on the side of the natural). It might be time for tanks to get a damage boost. Oh yeah, and probably the "unit crumpling" that exists in sc2 was probably another reason for that nerf. But i think it's fair to say that if the terrans can split their marines to avoid banes, then zerg should split their army to avoid all their stuff dying in a big blob of goo.
Absolutely! I agree , the Dball effect is what causes AOE in sc2 to be so devastating
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Well Buchan, after reading you're post it is safe for me to say that you dont know what you're talking about. I would recommend more practice so you can get use to the ways this specific unit works, try different scenarios, do some more research (openings/build orders) so you can understand when and why to make tanks and stuff.
Do not get in a game and make tanks and hope for the best...keep practicing/playing.
Have fun.
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On August 25 2012 06:25 TirramirooO wrote:
I play zerg and believe me that the most anoying unit in the all game is tanks, but i understant why people complain in TvP.
Not hard to get there :|
Not gonna lie though, id much prefer to deal with tanks then a colossus.
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On August 25 2012 06:26 danbel1005 wrote:
Well Buchan, after reading you're post it is safe for me to say that you dont know what you're talking about. I would recommend more practice so you can get use to the ways this specific unit works, try different scenarios, do some more research (openings/build orders) so you can understand when and why to make tanks and stuff.
Do not get in a game and make tanks and hope for the best...keep practicing/playing.
Have fun. I'm a +1000 point Masters Terran.
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EPT
