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On August 25 2012 05:46 Grumbels wrote:
Who cares that they one-shot lings. The splash is more relevant and in small numbers tanks do not provide adequate defense against zerglings. They're honestly still widely used and have their place in every match-up, but I wish they were a little bit stronger, just because I enjoy position-based tactics.
You know what does provide adequate defense against absolutely anything zerg? Marines. Split marines. So no, if you have 20 tanks, you can't beat broodlords. Make more marines.
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Someone close this thread... please X.X
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And like why the fuck can´t Broodlords shoot with Ultralisks?
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On August 25 2012 05:45 Kuni wrote:
Is that you avilo, on a smurf account?
Bahaha, no probably not, avilo is more of a raven guy 
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On August 25 2012 05:41 Buchan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:31 PeanutsNJam wrote:On August 25 2012 05:26 Buchan wrote:If Terran has 10+ siege tanks spread and sieged in one area (plus a bunch of other units) it should be very difficult for Zerg to break that area with just ground units without having a lot of ultras. But I've seen over and over again where Zerg launches some infested terrans to soak up the first tank blasts and then bring in the ultras and lings and before you know it the zerglings are on top of the tanks and they are splashing on themselves. "Zerg shouldn't be able to break siege lines without ultras." "I have 10+ tanks but zerg beats it with lings, infestors, and ultralisks, with adequte positioning and micro on his part." I don't see the problem. And to think that tanks aren't good against lings or hydras? Or infestors if you target fire? Are you joking? Not to mention for each tank you should have like 12 marines, which are good against everything if spread. Tanks are the last thing you should complain about. Yeah tanks are good against hydras and infestors but you never see hydras in TvZ.
*HOTS Speculation*
There might come a day when zergs actually do use hydras in TvZ in heart of the swarm with the speed upgrades.
All balance talk of HOTS being superfluous aside, I do suspect in HOTS they will have to do some tweaking with the siege tank given the sheer number of units seemingly designed to have an answer to tank lines, from viper pulls, to tempests, to charging ultras, to anti-mech missile barrages from war hounds it seems everyone will have a go to answer.
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Compared to the Brood War Tank:
It costs 25 more gas per Siege Tank. And Siege Tanks do 20 less damage to Armored than in Brood War.
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On August 25 2012 05:32 Zandar wrote:
Hydralisks are supposed to be high dps units. In an RTS game as fast as SC2 the fact they cannot move fast enough to even be able to shoot anything is a huge detriment. We've all seen how useless hydralisks are against Protoss after the mid game. In ZvT hydralisks are only good for base defense. Since terran upgrades are always ahead of zerg upgrades they do not even 1 shot anything. Hydralisks become a liability in the late game since they cost so much and are terrible against anything. If Terran has 10+ siege tanks spread and sieged in one area (plus a bunch of other units) it should be impossible for Zerg to break that area with just ground units without having a ton of ultras. But I've seen over and over again where terran spreads well to soak up the first baneling blasts and then bring in the marines and marines and marines and marines before you know it everything zerg had is bad.
The fact that hydralisks are so bad is a large reason to why zerg not viable versus Protoss. If they just buffed the hydralisk and added more armor, dps, movement speed, burrow movement, hydralisks would actually be viable against Toss in HoTS instead of what will likely be the 1a roach fest.
"The fact that hydralisks are so bad is a large reason to why zerg not viable versus Protoss" Are you serious? i need your dope
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On August 25 2012 05:50 dabom88 wrote:
Compared to the Brood War Tank:
It costs 25 more gas per Siege Tank. And Siege Tanks do 20 less damage to Armored than in Brood War.
Because siege tank *nerf* aside, everything else about sc2 is exactly the same as sc1.
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On August 25 2012 05:49 PeanutsNJam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:46 Grumbels wrote:
Who cares that they one-shot lings. The splash is more relevant and in small numbers tanks do not provide adequate defense against zerglings. They're honestly still widely used and have their place in every match-up, but I wish they were a little bit stronger, just because I enjoy position-based tactics. You know what does provide adequate defense against absolutely anything zerg? Marines. Split marines. So no, if you have 20 tanks, you can't beat broodlords. Make more marines.
And get fungal until my marins have the heavenmarins upgrade.
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On August 25 2012 05:29 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +Patch 1.1.0
Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored).
Siege mode upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored). That's why.
This. If i remember correctly, they put this nerf because siege tanks used to rape hydra armies, which were all the rage back then. (people thought hydras were good!)
Now that the zergs realized how imba infestors and brood lords are, they never touch hydras anymore. Hence what we have is a shitty ranged unit that is incredibly bad vs the modern zerg armies (mass ling/infestor into bl). And the same thing happened with toss, they realized zealots are incredibly op late game with all their upgrades (given 5 min sooner than the terran, thx blizz).
The balance team probably forgot the reasons for most of their nerfs/buffs and can only see "Balance" one meta-game at a time. Once someone figures out something that "breaks the balance", they'll nerf another thing to stop the crying, even though it could just take a month of play to figure out new strategies (but that might lose us players and we don't want that).
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That reminds me of that one GSL game on entombed where the terran had a contain with tanks and bunkers and the protoss just amoved his chargelots into that, crushed it and won the game. The point of tanks are that you can create an area where the opponent cannot attack, thus allowing you to control the space. Protoss is not supposed to attack into 5+ already sieged tanks and come out ahead, instead attack where the tanks are not. But sadly the opposite is the case, tanks are absolutely trash against everything except stalkers and sentries, and as mentioned even not that great against zerg. The only matchup where they are strong and also annoying is TvT...
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The way I see it tanks are a good defensive stepping stone towards something else versus zerg, and a staple unit in TvT. Versus protoss I don't think they have much use besides stopping gateway timings and the occasional 1-1-1.
I think the best way to use them in tvz is to stay safe while teching towards that beastly air fleet, moving out witch tanks on big maps is incredibly hard!
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On August 25 2012 05:53 Fluid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:29 aksfjh wrote:Patch 1.1.0
Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored).
Siege mode upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored). That's why. This. If i remember correctly, they put this nerf because siege tanks used to rape hydra armies, which were all the rage back then. (people thought hydras were good!) Now that the zergs realized how imba infestors and brood lords are, they never touch hydras anymore. Hence what we have is a shitty ranged unit that is incredibly bad vs the modern zerg armies (mass ling/infestor into bl). And the same thing happened with toss, they realized zealots are incredibly op late game with all their upgrades (given 5 min sooner than the terran, thx blizz). The balance team probably forgot the reasons for most of their nerfs/buffs and can only see "Balance" one meta-game at a time. Once someone figures out something that "breaks the balance", they'll nerf another thing to stop the crying, even though it could just take a month of play to figure out new strategies (but that might lose us players and we don't want that).
It was because that 10:30 second tank push you would lose most of your ling army with 3 tank blasts and then you had to fight marine on Muta it wasn't cause of Hydras.
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On August 25 2012 05:49 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Someone close this thread... please X.X "oh no someone is trying to discuss the game in the SC2 forum rather than the drama BAN THEM AND CLOSE THE THREAD"
You guys realize that I think the game is balanced right? This was just supposed to be about why the tank doesn't fill the role it's supposed too.
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On August 25 2012 05:51 PeanutsNJam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:50 dabom88 wrote:
Compared to the Brood War Tank:
It costs 25 more gas per Siege Tank. And Siege Tanks do 20 less damage to Armored than in Brood War. Because siege tank *nerf* aside, everything else about sc2 is exactly the same as sc1.
You're right in that some stuff changed from BW to SC2, but I think the Siege Tank is the only unit that carried over from BW whose cost was actually changed.
Zerglings still cost 50 for 2, Marines still cost 50, Zealots cost 100, etc.
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On August 25 2012 05:53 Aquila- wrote:
That reminds me of that one GSL game on entombed where the terran had a contain with tanks and bunkers and the protoss just amoved his chargelots into that, crushed it and won the game. The point of tanks are that you can create an area where the opponent cannot attack, thus allowing you to control the space. Protoss is not supposed to attack into 5+ already sieged tanks and come out ahead, instead attack where the tanks are not. But sadly the opposite is the case, tanks are absolutely trash against everything except stalkers and sentries, and as mentioned even not that great against zerg. The only matchup where they are strong and also annoying is TvT...
They are better vs Armored , so the protoss making units that are beefy with shield ( zealots) to break the contain makes sense . Tanks shouldn't be able to smash everything but t3 ground units.
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Because Dustin Browder hates positional play 
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tanks are actually quiet good still, but without armor upgrades they die pretty easy to most things. (unless you play mech you will probably not get armor upgrade). But saying that they got bad isn't exactly right. Siege mode got nerfed because of TvT, but the attack mode is still really strong. And if you fight broodlords with thors, the tanks are really important as they kill broodlings super fast from behind.
As for the siege mode, you need to focus fire with the tanks to maximize their damage and suddenly they become really strong heh.
They need alot of training. I mean when mech got popular zergs thought they could drop roaches ontop ... and it even worked because pro terrans actually sieged against this. While the keep everything unsieged and stay under the overlords cleans the roache before they can do anything.
But i do hope the siege mode gets some kind of buff, like special ammunition (3 shots for example that have a special effect on the ground for some time, CREEP CLEANING for example!).
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On August 25 2012 05:49 Esportsfanatic wrote:
And like why the fuck can´t Broodlords shoot with Ultralisks?
Because ultralisks cannot shot up and they could still be killed by vikings.
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LOL Tanks are really good I don't know what your talking about but youre obviously really dumb notice how no pro players have said one bad thing about hem they are still used in like every game as terran your probably 12 and in silver league for saying such a stupid thing please don't make another thread.
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EPT
