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Active: 31795 users

Why are Tanks so bad in SC2? - Page 7

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Ireniicus
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom374 Posts
August 24 2012 21:53 GMT
#121
Tanks are strong but fragile units..well balanced
BreakfastBurrito
Profile Joined November 2011
United States893 Posts
August 24 2012 21:54 GMT
#122
Tanks are still good, early and midgame and sometimes lategame
twitch.tv/jaytherey | Yapper891 if you are reading this, PM me. its Twisty.
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 21:55:54
August 24 2012 21:54 GMT
#123
On August 25 2012 06:52 Shady Sands wrote:
The key thing here is that in BW it went like this:

immobile army > mobile army in terms of cost efficiency

In SC2 it's changed to

micro-intensive, spell-caster intensive army > non-micro non-spellcaster army in terms of cost efficiency.

Dustin Browder and David Kim have pretty much stated they want the latter to be the dominant philosophy for SC2. Their core belief is that audiences like to watch micro-intensive spell-caster intensive fights more than positional fights.

Arguing otherwise with them is like arguing a evolution with a creationist--it's unproductive because their beliefs are built on not logic but faith.

The only response we can really do would be to boycott purchases of HotS. Sad, but true.

i wouldnt call spells micro intensive. unit micro is intensive, ie. shttle reaver, shuttle templar, lurker defiler. putting down spells alone is boring as fck. imo blizzard design team has ill-tasteful view on good kind of micro. their idea of micro involves spells.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
System42
Profile Joined August 2011
172 Posts
August 24 2012 21:54 GMT
#124
On August 25 2012 06:03 Aquila- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 05:58 System42 wrote:
LOL Tanks are really good I don't know what your talking about but youre obviously really dumb notice how no pro players have said one bad thing about hem they are still used in like every game as terran your probably 12 and in silver league for saying such a stupid thing please don't make another thread.


Yea I forgot how every standard TvP involves tanks...

talking about tvz ur also dumb if u did not understand that
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
August 24 2012 21:56 GMT
#125
On August 25 2012 06:52 Shady Sands wrote:
The key thing here is that in BW it went like this:

immobile army > mobile army in terms of cost efficiency

In SC2 it's changed to

micro-intensive, spell-caster intensive army > non-micro non-spellcaster army in terms of cost efficiency.

Dustin Browder and David Kim have pretty much stated they want the latter to be the dominant philosophy for SC2. Their core belief is that audiences like to watch micro-intensive spell-caster intensive fights more than positional fights.

Arguing otherwise with them is like arguing a evolution with a creationist--it's unproductive because their beliefs are built on not logic but faith.

The only response we can really do would be to boycott purchases of HotS. Sad, but true.


Differing opinions on what makes good gameplay ≠ differing opinions where one is evidence based and one is faith based.

Try again.
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
August 24 2012 22:00 GMT
#126
I believe tanks are a bit underpowered considering the current map pool. They have no agressive potential so you're automatically stuck defending and going for a macro game, which brings us to the second problem where a mass max tank army doesn't work in TvP and TvZ, not even really in TvT mostly.

It isn't really wrong that the tank has a realatively small yet potent use in the game, but most people who know Terran in BW have come to love the positional play and creativity that tanks create in large numbers. The siege tank was so iconic and powerful that the current SC2 version feels flimsy in comparision, it feels kinda wrong that the tank has become support whereas the marine has taken it's place as the go to unit.
I think esports is pretty nice.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3187 Posts
August 24 2012 22:01 GMT
#127
For the record, SC2 tank damage is lower than in BW, but they also fire faster in siege mode than they did before. In other words, just commenting on their lower damage isn't telling the whole story.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
ShatterZer0
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1843 Posts
August 24 2012 22:02 GMT
#128
This is insane, btu I had a dream about siege tanks... That they got an upgrade called "Enhanced Firing Solutions" that made them fire twice at the same time during their second continuous volley. As in boom.... boboom... boom.... boom,.............. boom.... boboom.


God I should wake up before posting.
A time to live.
Prog455
Profile Joined April 2012
Denmark970 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 22:04:22
August 24 2012 22:02 GMT
#129
On August 25 2012 05:48 Sandermatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 05:46 0neder wrote:
To simplify things, tanks are bad because:

A - Dustin Browder did not understand what made BW exciting to watch.
B - The game was balanced on microscopic horrible maps like Steppes of War

In a nutshell, BW's formula was: tanks are ridiculously imba, how can you overcome that to win?
DB didn't get this, so he has been on an anti-tank crusade for the last 3 years. What he doesn't understand is that noob players (like me) don't care about imba stuff the other guy has so much as get excited about imba terran stuff.

So instead of keeping their strength, Browder nerved them to impotence in almost every way possible. EG:
Supply nerf
Gas cost nerf
General Damage nerf
Splash Damage nerf
Then he made them better in siege than out so they would be a more shallow unit to use.
Then he made Marauders, Thors, Graviton beam, Immortals, and in case that wasn't enough he added Viper abduct, Warhounds, etc.

All this in the name of saving Starcraft from tanks because he thinks nobody liked them or found them exciting as a player or spectator. Sad, isn't it?


Tanks are used all the time in TvZ and TvT and early game TvP. A unit that is used so often is not underpowered.


I am fairly sure that Queens were used in every match-up prior to the range buff, and they were buffed nevertheless. I really do agree that Tanks should get a damage buff in order to promote positional play, or atleast some kind of buff against Zealots. While i agree that Tanks should not necessarily dominate every ground unit in the game, i don't think that it is unreasonable to ask for Tanks to deal with light melee units!
MyLastSerenade
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany710 Posts
August 24 2012 22:03 GMT
#130
On August 25 2012 05:29 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
Patch 1.1.0

Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored).
Siege mode upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored).


That's why.


good times
Mr Showtime
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1353 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 22:04:23
August 24 2012 22:03 GMT
#131
They're not. They're probably one of the most balanced units. Stop whining.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
August 24 2012 22:12 GMT
#132
such treads
why not "why are marines/zealots" so bad in sc2 ...
tanks are nice i not wanna play tvz without them ......
its just metal missing in tvp because there are no mines, try sc1 tank play vs protoss without mines you cant
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
August 24 2012 22:13 GMT
#133
an extremely simple ling flank will break any siege line. It's ridiculous how easily mid-game pushes are dealt with by zergs in tvz
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
Elvin
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
149 Posts
August 24 2012 22:17 GMT
#134
On August 25 2012 07:03 Mr Showtime wrote:
They're not. They're probably one of the most balanced units. Stop whining.


Whenever I see "this unit is one of the most balanced units" I have to laugh. By most balanced you probably mean that you have no complains about the unit which would make sense as tank is little to no threat at any MU.

You never go "OMMGHFGA HE HAS SO MANY SIEGE TANKS WHAT AM I GONNA DO?" or "WHOA I SHOULD NOT HAVE STEPPED INTO THAT SIEGE LINE, GOT WRECKED HARD" and do you fucking know why? Because it never happens.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 22:20:45
August 24 2012 22:18 GMT
#135
Siege tank is a good unit. The only fact is that people often use them in a strange/bad/retarded way vZ and vP . . . and from it, they try to "prove" they are bad

vZ : Usually, with mech, bad tank numbers,and with biomech they're basically used like marauders (A move, siege at the last second..). We see really few people actually being careful with their tanks (especially with positionning), and really few people trying to get the right tanks count for the situation . . .

vP : with bio style, tanks are used since long in early game to defend versus protoss early attacks. They're deadly versus sentry, denying mass forcefields on bunker push ,and they allows to fight early colossus pushs without commiting to "useless" vikings. But why aren't tanks used after that? actually, some players are able to use biomech tank based army later in the game (i think for example of Servyoa). The fact is that most players try to use their tanks with offensive style,and thats the problem. Tanks are stupidly good in a defensive position, with walls/units to defend them, and with uppgrades, and when we see people complaining about bio/tank in TvP, it's often because they try to use unuppgraded tanks in midgame...in offense. Actually, a turtle biomech style, going for a 3/3 marauder/ghost + 3/0 tanks is insanely powerful (and safe) versus protoss on some maps.
And with mech, it's often because people thinks that mech TvP is making 50 tanks and sieging them middle map, and then saying it's a bad unit because a pure immortal army killed them..


tldr : Tanks is a good unit if used well, and an horrible one when badly used. A little buff would be great to allows them to be used in more situations (or to have some bw-like actions, by allowing little numbers of tanks to be truly effective at holding areas versus a bigger army)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Corvette
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States433 Posts
August 24 2012 22:20 GMT
#136
I think what you are trying to ask is, "Why are tanks different than in BW?" The answer is quite simple, SC2 is a different game with similar concepts yet, different units.
Arghnews
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom169 Posts
August 24 2012 22:20 GMT
#137
Is this thread a joke?..
TigerKarl
Profile Joined November 2010
1757 Posts
August 24 2012 22:21 GMT
#138
Stop selling your opinion as fact. Tanks are fine.
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
August 24 2012 22:21 GMT
#139
This thread is not appropriate.
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