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On July 08 2012 23:55 catabowl wrote:
In reality, the silent majority watch more SC2 than BW. But, the people that made Teamliquid what it is today are having a hard time dealing with SC2. I am with the OP on the asking of the question: Why so much hate? Then I realized, these are the same people who hate LeBron James for leaving a crumby, poorly ran organization to a better organization with better talent. If Google offered me a job, I would leave my current job for it.
What the fuck.
I played thosuands of matches and watched many matches in both games, and I think Brood War is better. How does that make me a LeBron hater?
It is not I who is biased, it is you. I am very certain you have not played, studied, and learned both games. If you had, you wouldn't believe that BW fans prefer BW for such a stupid reason. You would just prefer SC2 as game over BW.
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There are so many rebutal to this, but I'll go with this one : everything does not revolve around sc2.
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On July 08 2012 23:55 catabowl wrote:
In reality, the silent majority watch more SC2 than BW. But, the people that made Teamliquid what it is today are having a hard time dealing with SC2. I am with the OP on the asking of the question: Why so much hate? Then I realized, these are the same people who hate LeBron James for leaving a crumby, poorly ran organization to a better organization with better talent. If Google offered me a job, I would leave my current job for it.
I just, no, it's two different things you are looking at here okay. When you say "Brood war fans need to move on and stop hating SC2", you are saying 1. BW fans need to stop being BW fans. and then 2. These originally BW fans need to become SC2 fans. 2 is a completely different issue from 1.
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Oh God yet another SC2 crusader to liberate illogical haters or elitist snobs or DOTA infidels (take your pick!).
I'm not putting words into your mouth here, that's literally what your points make us out to be.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
dota is my new bw because it has strategic depth and watching the pros pull off some amazing shit is really awesome.
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the killing point was the stim pack sound in sc2 vs that of bw
i now have to instead resort to australian pudge
holy fuck its kona where have you been
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I think that for people who think that SC2 is a worse game than BW, as it is now you are objectively correct, but I think that you have to consider that BW games back when BW just came out (or even SCvanilla) were much, much worse than watching something like Flash vs Effort now. This is a time when people were still figuring out how to play the game, and as a result the quality of those old games weren't as good as modern BW games. BW has had 14 years and an expansion to let it's metagame flourish, and flourish it has. The way I see it SC2 might not be as developed a game and people still haven't fully figured out everything about it, but there is a new expansion coming out that will sort of 'reset' the skill levels with the introduction of new units/abilities/maps. The game will change over time, and even watching GSL games now compared to the old open seasons of 2010, there is already a WORLD of difference in the games. To me, each season of GSL just gets better and better. When HotS causes a reset in the skill/metagame, I think that the BW players will suddenly be on an even field compared to the current SC2 pros.
To me BW just seems like such an outdated game that relies on you to do so many things the game should just do itself. Things like how poor the pathfinding is, having to rally workers manually to minerals, the lack of smartcasting and multiple building selection don't actually add anything to the game. Technically, you could individually click and cast with each spellcaster, have only 12 units in each control group, individually click every production building to make units and rally your workers in front of your base and manually move them yourself in SC2. There's nothing stopping you from doing that, but why would you? It just makes the game harder to play.
As much as I love BW sometimes I feel like the only reason you find something like a good set of storms or something being amazing is because you know as a BW player how hard it is to actually do that. If you saw it happen in SC2, you know it's easier to do. To me forcing the players to have to spread their attention over this kind of minor things was fine 10 years ago perhaps when game/computer technology was different, but now there is no point for it. This kind of thing just detracts from the focus on strategy and actual unit control in the game. BW players who are so used to doing these minute things will probably find that they can spread their attention more over the actual game when they have fully switched to SC2.
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I watch some LoL/Smite from time to time. Not much time/interest to play these days.
I don't care enough about sc2 to hate it.
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I'm a BW guy who played and watched SC2 for a bit. I don't hate it at all, I just sort of lost interest in it after awhile. I switched to LoL because I found it fun, nothing more nothing less. The two are not connected except that with less SC2 I have more time to play and watch LoL. Nowadays I play a bunch of DayZ cause it's the new thing I find fun.
This is just what happens in video games. No need to over-analyze something simple like us just enjoying watching LoL/DOTA more than SC2.
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Now this is something I genuinely cannot understand. Coming from the perspective of someone who has played/watched RTS games, it just seems ludicrous to me to think that Dota2 or LoL offers even half the entertainment of BW/SC2. To me it just seems odd how some people could genuinely prefer these games over SC2, in fact I have a hard time believing it's a genuine enjoyment of MOBAs.
Well, I've read quite a lot of similar discussions, and I find it sort of funny (maybe even ironic if this the indeed an appropriate instance to use that word) that the very reasons that you've stated that Dota and LoL suck are more or less the very same reasons that BW fans say SC2 sucks.
I genuinely enjoy watching Dota 2, especially with Tobi Wan casting (he is as awesome as Tastosis) playing it less so due to dickhead random teammates calling each other noob, but I don't even tune in to SC2 anymore as I find it to be, in my opinion, unexciting and very formulaic.
But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I hope you feel the same way and just let everyone make their own choices on what they play and watch.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On July 09 2012 00:14 Caller wrote:
the killing point was the stim pack sound in sc2 vs that of bw
i now have to instead resort to australian pudge
holy fuck its kona where have you been
been in camp for 2 months lol i have a week break
watching some dota 2 nao
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Well as a long time fan/player of BW I can tell you that I dont hate SC2. But it did fall very short of the high expectations I had for it. Id rather play C&C Red Alert 2 than SC2.
But I switched from BW to SC2, then from SC2 back to BW and finally BW to LoL (I still play BW with irl friends only once in a huge while). I have a lot of friends who play LoL. We have a legitimately fun time together. Is it as fun as BW? No. But its easy to get new people into, its f2p, it is easy to pick up but difficult to master. With my time constraints of work/wife/baby I dont have the time to put into BW to enjoy it outside of playing with friends.
I think people seriously need to stop flaming the other communities. Forget BW vs SC2 vs LoL/Dota. Just play what you like and enjoy the fact that everyone is different. Ignore anyone who is advertently or inadvertently trying to start an argument. If any game lives or dies in korea, Im not gonna let that influence what I do in any way. I dont really give a crap about people's opinions on the other side of the planet in terms of what is a good game or not.
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I can't understand for the life of me what about a MOBA game is fun to watch, let alone play. The skillsets needed are different than bw/sc2 (underwhelming skillsets), but there's a massive lack of depth.
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On July 09 2012 00:17 SilverWolfe wrote:
I think that for people who think that SC2 is a worse game than BW, as it is now you are objectively correct, but I think that you have to consider that BW games back when BW just came out (or even SCvanilla) were much, much worse than watching something like Flash vs Effort now. This is a time when people were still figuring out how to play the game, and as a result the quality of those old games weren't as good as modern BW games. BW has had 14 years and an expansion to let it's metagame flourish, and flourish it has. The way I see it SC2 might not be as developed a game and people still haven't fully figured out everything about it, but there is a new expansion coming out that will sort of 'reset' the skill levels with the introduction of new units/abilities/maps. The game will change over time, and even watching GSL games now compared to the old open seasons of 2010, there is already a WORLD of difference in the games. To me, each season of GSL just gets better and better. When HotS causes a reset in the skill/metagame, I think that the BW players will suddenly be on an even field compared to the current SC2 pros.
To me BW just seems like such an outdated game that relies on you to do so many things the game should just do itself. Things like how poor the pathfinding is, having to rally workers manually to minerals, the lack of smartcasting and multiple building selection don't actually add anything to the game. Technically, you could individually click and cast with each spellcaster, have only 12 units in each control group, individually click every production building to make units and rally your workers in front of your base and manually move them yourself in SC2. There's nothing stopping you from doing that, but why would you? It just makes the game harder to play.
As much as I love BW sometimes I feel like the only reason you find something like a good set of storms or something being amazing is because you know as a BW player how hard it is to actually do that. If you saw it happen in SC2, you know it's easier to do. To me forcing the players to have to spread their attention over this kind of minor things was fine 10 years ago perhaps when game/computer technology was different, but now there is no point for it. This kind of thing just detracts from the focus on strategy and actual unit control in the game. BW players who are so used to doing these minute things will probably find that they can spread their attention more over the actual game when they have fully switched to SC2.
Dude
1: When SC2 gets better than BW, I will switch and enjoy it. But why the fuck should I do it now? I don't care if it's going to get better than BW in 5 years, right now it isn't.
2: Even if BW had the easy mechanics of SC2, it would still be a better game. It has more interesting races, better design, and is more intellectualy stimulating. Once you get good at BW and you learn the mechanics, they are no longer an issue anyway. And when you get to that level, you realize that BW has more fun and interesting strategy.
Or maybe you don't. Maybe you prefer SC2, and that's fine if you really do like SC2 more. But that's all it is - you like SC2 more. Don't give me all this bullshit about not wanting to move on, being bitter, and so on.
Besides, what's wrong with having mechanical requirements and skill-based things in a game? It is a REAL TIME strategy game. Speed is always going to matter more or less. If you don't like that, that's fine, but it does not make the game worse. A fighting game that has hard combos isn't worse than a fighting game that has easy combos. The game takes both strategic thinking and skill-based execution, and there is nothing wrong with that. And if you remove all mechanics from both SC2 and BW, I will still prefer BW.
It's just a better game for me, that's it. There is no nostalgia, prejudice, or bias. Some people like BW and DotA but not SC2. Some people like SC2 but not BW. That's all there is to it, stop making a big deal out of the people who like BW and DotA but not SC2.
Edit: And when I say mechanics are no longer an issue, I mean that they no longer impede your enjoyment of the game, or limit which strategies you can use. Mechanics and speed become part of the strategic game. It is a resource that you must spend wisely. You can also force your opponent to spend it certain areas, and use strategies that take less apm for you than it takes for him to respond. It adds another strategic layer to the game.
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On July 09 2012 00:21 Zenbrez wrote:
I can't understand for the life of me what about a MOBA game is fun to watch, let alone play. The skillsets needed are different than bw/sc2, but there's a massive lack of depth.
as someone who followed both bw and dota for a long time, i can safely say that dota has much more depth than bw
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why do all the Sc2 guys care so much about what the BW community thinks?
People that don't watch/play SC2 just don't like you. what is the freaking problem?
why make 10 threads about this every month?
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SilverWolfe I'm just curious.
how old are you?
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On July 09 2012 00:23 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:21 Zenbrez wrote:
I can't understand for the life of me what about a MOBA game is fun to watch, let alone play. The skillsets needed are different than bw/sc2, but there's a massive lack of depth. as someone who followed both bw and dota for a long time, i can safely say that dota has much more depth than bw
erm. i imagine if BW had 5v5 2048x2048 maps it would have more depth than dota
edit nvm my argument is terrible. As someone who has played dota for years in lans, I understand what your meaning of "depth" is, but it's just dumb comparing the two games. Fps' also have "depth" in the limit of handling and team work but you can't compare those to an rts.
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On July 08 2012 23:38 GTR wrote:
All BW fans hate SC2? That is one of the dumbest overgeneralization's I've read on this forum.
All SC2 fans make dumb overgeneralizations like this all the time.
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On July 08 2012 23:38 GTR wrote:
All BW fans hate SC2? That is one of the dumbest overgeneralization's I've read on this forum.
I kind of get this impression when I come on the BW forums thought, and the complete lack of PL spectators is kinda evidence of the fact.
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EPT
