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I am not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but this is the BW board so I guess it makes sense to ask it here. If there's a better place, please let me know/move the thread.
Please don't be offended by this because I'm only asking based on what I observe in these forums. Essentially from what I understand, BW fans hate SC2.
Like really, really, REALLY hate SC2. I don't really get this, I started playing/watching BW myself but was pretty excited when SC2 came out, and even though the pro games aren't as high level as BroodWar games were and nor were the players as talented, I still had hope that maybe the game would evolve over time and the pro scene would become more exciting to watch as well.
The thing that I'm gonna ask about is that I've noticed a lot of BW fans have decided to start playing/watching Dota2 and LoL over SC2. Now this is something I genuinely cannot understand. Coming from the perspective of someone who has played/watched RTS games, it just seems ludicrous to me to think that Dota2 or LoL offers even half the entertainment of BW/SC2. To me it just seems odd how some people could genuinely prefer these games over SC2, in fact I have a hard time believing it's a genuine enjoyment of MOBAs.
To me there are three possibilities that I see, and I've listed them here in order of likelihood as I see it:
1. The first group of people are BW fans who are so upset that SC2 is not literally BW in 3D that they can't stand the concept of ever switching to SC2 or trying to enjoy playing/watching it. Also the thought of KeSPA players playing SC2 seems like a blasphemy to these people. I think that these people are so disgusted by SC2 as a game, that they've decided to proudly parade how much they think Dota2 and LoL are better games than SC2 just to spite the game and SC2 fans.
2. The second group of people are fans who believe that Korea somehow 'understands' eSports and what a good eSport is better than every other country, and that playing games that Korea doesn't like/enjoy as much is stupid. These people probably saw how Korean fans didn't take to SC2, but loved LoL. So they decided that because of this, LoL must be a legitimately more interesting game than SC2, because of course this is the same country that started professional Broodwar.
3. The third and least likely possibility I see is people who actually, genuinely, in their hearts, believe that Dota2 and LoL is a better eSport than SC2. Now people don't get me wrong MOBA fans, your games are great in their own right. But coming from an RTS background I just don't see how anyone could find it exciting to watch or even play. The game feels slow and boring when I actually play it, watching it I have no idea what I'm supposed to be impressed or entertained by. I try to imagine how hard it would be for people to cast 4v4 BW/SC2 games seriously and how little the results would actually seem to matter given how bizarrely games with that many teammates can turn out. From a spectator standpoint it just seems like too much random crap going on at once, and that seems to be exactly the case with Dota2/LoL. I think if these people come from a BW background, they probably haven't given watching the GSL or something a try.
So what is the deal exactly? Why do so many BW fans like MOBA games so much over SC2?
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I think it's because while DotA is not as amazing as Brood War, it is in a different genre of games than Brood War. This makes it easier to transition to. StarCraft 2 is in the same genre as Brood War, but much worse.
It's easier to change to something that is different altogether, than something that is just inferior. SC2 is just a shitty RTS, an inferior version of SC1, but DotA is something different. When you're used to playing a good RTS, switching to a mediocre one is harder than switching to a DotA game.
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Well I can't really speak on behalf of LoL players, but DotA is the BW of it's genre
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I have switched to LoL some time ago because I have hosting and lag issues in BW. And my friends play LoL, and it's pretty fun playing together with them.
and it seems like you can't think of people liking a game outside of it being an espart.
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On July 08 2012 23:34 vOdToasT wrote:
I think it's because while DotA is not as amazing as Brood War, it is in a different genre of games than Brood War. This makes it easier to transition to. StarCraft 2 is in the same genre as Brood War, but much worse.
It's easier to change to something that is different altogether, than something that is just inferior. SC2 is just a shitty RTS, an inferior version of SC1, but DotA is something different. When you're used to playing a good RTS, switching to a mediocre one is harder than switching to a DotA game.
nailed it
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I feel like youre getting angry that BW fans don't like SC2. Why would people switch to MOBA/ARTS games to spite SC2? How would that even work? You already presume that SC2 is great and anyone from an RTS background who doesn't enjoy it as much as you think they should hasn't given it a shot or is just flat out wrong.
I played SC2 pretty extensively, but it really just never sat well with me. Maybe it's because there was already this precedent (BW) that it couldn't possibly hope to live up to, but I eventually got sick of playing SC2 since every single game felt exactly the same (internal rhyme ftl) and scoured around for other games to play. Happened to land a Dota2 key, have been enjoying my time there. What says I have to give a shit about ESPORTS and the like?
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51706 Posts
All BW fans hate SC2? That is one of the dumbest overgeneralization's I've read on this forum.
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Ive noticed and read that many SC2 players and even BW pros have started to play LoL completely or after practice.
I wonder hows the viewer numbers on OGN's LoL tournament.
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Okay 65% of my peers are gamer. Out of that, 15% are console gamers, 20% are mobile gaming. 5% are into PC FPS. What did happen was that when SC2 came out around 70% of them played it. And now, only 2% stills plays and by my previous statistics, the other 60% are ALL moba gamers. They enjoy LoL/DotA 2 much more than SC2.
Other than me, there are 2 other guys who are into RTS. One of them plays the CnC series, another one follows War3 and a tiny bit of SC2. So I am pretty much alone in the Brood War boat. So it hit me, if I am going to try SC2, I am going to be alone on it anyways. I am not going to get into details of other reasons beside the social angle of it. So because MANY and I'll say MANY of pals plays mobas, might as well use my Brood War mechanics and prove to them of my superiority in hardcore gaming. Thus conjuring up competition.
Another reason is that Blizzard have placed a bounty on Brood War and SC2 is the hitman. I shall never forgive for that.
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Players usually critic the games they play over things like sound, game play, customization, etc. these same players played BW, so they see through criticizing SC2 that SC2 is actually "inferior" as vOdToasT put it. These other games are of a different genre, enjoyed by others that played BW, and as such there is already a connection to these games. SC2 on the other hand feels like a company is trying to force a connection (focusing SC2 around 1v1 and tournaments while losing some of the things that made BW great) to a game "that is just inferior".
+ Show Spoiler +Also, you're overgeneralizing this whole situation...
Oh and the sounds in SC2 are just god awful...
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It's not about the genre, it's about the game. That's the answer.
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this thread is going to end badly...
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The thing is, even after sc2, dota, dota2, and hon were never recognized. Mostly in Europe did dota flourished Before sc2.the number one reason bw fans are changing to lol is because its popular and Koreans are following it. Korean bw was what got them into bw. even if Koreans change to street fighter, no doubt everyone would be into it. The main reason sc2 is ignored by bw fans is because they"re bw fans. If u give them a game that's in the same genre; of course they'll fight and defend their game to the end. It's not often the question of design and gameplay, its just pop culture dictated by Korean media. Sc2 being a social stigma back then with the kespa blizzard conflict just made it hard to ever promote sc2 for news so they turned to lol.
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On July 08 2012 23:45 ninini wrote:
It's not about the genre, it's about the game. That's the answer.
You said what I tried to say much more elegantly. Good post.
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I've switched to LoL and I'm just about to start Dota2 as I got invited. I guess after spending a huge chunk of my childhood/teenage years on BW, SC2 just doesn't interest me. I tried playing it but I ended up just going back to BW before stop playing BW completely even if I still watch progames here and there. The Korean scene has moved from BW to LoL so I find the transition to be rather smooth, and a couple of my close friends play LoL so I have some social motivation to play the game. I'm pretty excited to start playing Dota2 but when it comes to SC2... I can't really say I care too much about HotS.
SC2 was disappointing as a game and its scene never really captured me. GOM is incredibly boring compared to BW's televised leagues.
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My reason is that my computer is crappy and can barely run SC2. And my friends play LoL. And SC2 is expensive and basically the same experience as BW.
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It's not fans "switching" imo, bw fans are going to be bw fans or cease to be bw fans, whether a bw fan develops interest in another game is irrelevant of if he's a bw fan or not, since every other association (be it sc2 because it carries the same name, LoL because it's on the same ogn channel / is on tl, tic tac toe because your friend plays it, w/e) is completely circumstantial.
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basically you're wrong
dota games are fun
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BW and SC2 are the same genre and are both ment to be played competitive, means you'll have to put in a lot of effort if you want to be good at one, so most people just play the one that they like more, for their competitive side.
If they just want to play for fun they try MOBA games because its still competitive (and therefore fun for the competitive player) but not that unvorgifing, because if your doing a mistake someone else from the team might make up for it. Also they can play it with their friends (even if there is a skill difference).
Well thats at least my oppinion, I'll keep playing bw no matter what because I simply love it ^.^ (Tried DotA, didn't like it)
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In reality, the silent majority watch more SC2 than BW. But, the people that made Teamliquid what it is today are having a hard time dealing with SC2. I am with the OP on the asking of the question: Why so much hate? Then I realized, these are the same people who hate LeBron James for leaving a crumby, poorly ran organization to a better organization with better talent. If Google offered me a job, I would leave my current job for it.
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EPT
