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On June 06 2012 21:26 courtpanda wrote:
"lets limit black people in the NBA we want teams to be more diverse and african americans dominate pro basketball"
I think a closer analogy that's actually happened would be the LPGA's attempt to require its players to learn English. I'm not sure what the numbers were back then (and I'm too lazy to look it up), but the current top 30 has 18 players from East Asia.
Okay, I just looked it up, and four years ago (near the time they tried to pass the English proficiency rule), 23 of the top 50 and 53 of the top 100 were from East Asia.
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I actually kind of take a perverse pleasure at seeing foreigners getting dominated by koreans (especially stephano)  . But if I were to do the good thing I would probably support better foreigner training houses so they could compete on the same level. I read another comment on here about how foreigners need to collaborate more, I think that's the right way to go. But because there are so few foreigners that could only work between teams that periodically compete with one another, so not sure how that would work.
It would be nice if there were a US only league...so that the players could actually make some money once in a while so that they could continue to play against koreans in MLG like tournaments. But the sad fact is few people would watch it due to the lack of koreans...the majority of NA players have now become faceless
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On June 06 2012 22:16 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:14 coloursheep wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans  shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do If foreigners dont have the same conditions/opportunities as Koreans then its up to them or their teams to emulate what the Koreans do. To quote Preston Broadus foreigners need to either step up or step the fuck off. how would you go about doing this? walk me through it please
Weren't you living at the type house TT1? What happened to that.
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foreigners don't have the set up that koreans do, but over the past year things have been progressing with more and more foreign players (TL leading the way) going to Korea. Its a start, and if things keep progressing this way, they'll be able to integrate themselves into the system.
Still though would you want the GSL to place a cap on the foreign players allowed in? As the foreign pros either develop their own system of practicing or integrate into Korea, you would expect to see many more competing in the GSL. Just give it time
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AnD banning Koreans is like racism. So The OP wants koreans to stay in korea and not allow them to join tournaments in Foreign countries because they always win?. That doesn't sound right. In fact If we want Sc2 to grow more, Players all-over the world should join as many tournaments as possible worldwide
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It's silly to compare MLG to WCG. WCS is more comparable to WCG, since that actually has regional qualifiers with a set invite number from those regions. MLG is about the best competition, the best players coming in and giving it their all. I highly doubt MLG is going to sacrifice the integrity of their tournament simply because foreigners "don't have the right conditions" to get better, and I'm perfectly happy with that.
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On June 06 2012 22:16 LimitSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:11 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:08 Jojo131 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:02 Klaas wrote:On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1" Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify. Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most. But see, the middle ground will be "found" once foreigners actually earn those spots, not by artificially controlling who gets to compete. Because obviously, we've seen more and more foreigners able to compete against koreans. And it's also pretty clear that seeing that none succeed, other will be motivated to continue working to win, especially when their korean counterparts do whatever they can to make sure that they can't. (Naniwa's previous comment) Except that we have seen more foreigners able to compete against Koreans. Or are you going to ignore Naniwa's recent GSL run? Stephano's runs through other recent korean dominated tournaments? Foreigners can compete with Koreans, given enough time.
I don't think the number has increased, Sure we've got Stephano and Naniwa now, but we lost Jinro and Idra. Some people are suggesting, that once the BW pros switch, there'll be no foreigner that will be able to compete.
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Austria24417 Posts
This is like saying ban Spain from football tournaments because they win everything. Euro is coming up and I bet my money they're gonna own again, we must ban them because it's no fun otherwise.
You cannot have great storylines if you don't have the big names here. The players who make you go "oh my god, how the hell is he doing this?!" are not from NA or EU at the moment. They're from Korea. Unless you have those monsters at tournaments, you cannot have storylines. I mean what's special about foreigners beating foreigners? Absolutely nothing.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but there's a million tournaments with mostly foreigners in them, watch these instead if you are more interested in certain people playing rather than the games themselves.
I personally think that the argument the OP brings shows how little they're actually interested in the sport of SCII itself. MLG (Major League Gaming) has a logo that is designed like the other big sports leagues in NA. Why? Because they wanna show that they're a legitimate sports league themselves.
And what should the goal of every sports league be? To provide to best possible games. Not personalities but quality of play.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to see rivalries, certain personalities and so on but 1) if you think that the korean scene doesn't provide that, you're wrong. And 2) there's nothing wrong with favoring this kind of entertainment more but you shouldn't demand that of an organization that is actually trying to be a legitimate sports league, which MLG seems to be.
And think of it this way, did IPL not have huge storylines with Squirtle coming from the open bracket to almost win the whole thing, Scarlett skyrocketing out of nowhere, WhiteRa and Stephano in the group stages? Think about what would happen if no Koreans had been there. None of this would have been talked about AT ALL because it wouldn't have been nearly as impressive.
It seems to me like you're just not familiar with the korean scene and don't want to get into it because you already have your favorites.
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On June 06 2012 22:19 Ace1123 wrote:
AnD banning Koreans is like racism. So The OP wants koreans to stay in korea and not allow them to join tournaments in Foreign countries because they always win?. That doesn't sound right. In fact If we want Sc2 to grow more, Players all-over the world should join as many tournaments as possible worldwide
A tournament is allowed to have a rule that says only 10 players per country are allowed. That is not racism even though it would be directly aimed to Koreans .
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How did Violet get so good without the typical Korean training infrastructure and playing in the US? Is he an anomaly?
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I don't think this is a good idea. Not allowing the best players imaginable to play de-legitimizes the entire game and its competitiveness. Any big tournament should be all about showing good games and celebrating/honoring good players. Really, what's the pleasure for a foreigner to win an MLG if he knows the only reason he won it is because the koreans (in other words, vastly better players) weren't allowed in.
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On June 06 2012 22:15 RageCommodore wrote:
Funny thing is that right now, the foreigner/korean competition is really good because a lot of foreigners seem to do what they should do: step up their game. Guys like Illusion have shown that you don't have to be Stephano to give top Koreans a run for their money. Seriously, this topic was brought up after MLG Anaheim last year, and now it's coming back... is this some kind of Anaheim curse?
Illusion is a Korean =.= and I am talking about QuanticIllusion.
Stephano is an exception of the foreigners where he actually has talent and can perform well against koreans.
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Unless it's reaching BW level of Korean dominance, I don't think you need to exclude Korean from foreign events.
I don't really follow sc2 but wasn't huk/thorzain/stepano won events against korean players?
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OP is not calling for NO Koreans. He's just asking for limited Korean spots. I agree that a tournament with mostly Koreans is not ideal. There should be diversity. To be fair, there should be a limit of how many players each team (regardless of nationality/region) can send.
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On June 06 2012 22:20 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:19 Ace1123 wrote:
AnD banning Koreans is like racism. So The OP wants koreans to stay in korea and not allow them to join tournaments in Foreign countries because they always win?. That doesn't sound right. In fact If we want Sc2 to grow more, Players all-over the world should join as many tournaments as possible worldwide A tournament is allowed to have a rule that says only 10 players per country are allowed. That is not racism even though it would be directly aimed to Koreans .
So How many Countries will participate actually? so America is considered one country so there will be a lot of player who cannot join.
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On June 06 2012 22:20 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:19 Ace1123 wrote:
AnD banning Koreans is like racism. So The OP wants koreans to stay in korea and not allow them to join tournaments in Foreign countries because they always win?. That doesn't sound right. In fact If we want Sc2 to grow more, Players all-over the world should join as many tournaments as possible worldwide A tournament is allowed to have a rule that says only 10 players per country are allowed. That is not racism even though it would be directly aimed to Koreans .
To be not racist you would need to also restrict players from the US how would that work?
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On June 06 2012 22:16 LimitSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:11 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:08 Jojo131 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:02 Klaas wrote:On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1" Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify. Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most. But see, the middle ground will be "found" once foreigners actually earn those spots, not by artificially controlling who gets to compete. Because obviously, we've seen more and more foreigners able to compete against koreans. And it's also pretty clear that seeing that none succeed, other will be motivated to continue working to win, especially when their korean counterparts do whatever they can to make sure that they can't. (Naniwa's previous comment) Except that we have seen more foreigners able to compete against Koreans. Or are you going to ignore Naniwa's recent GSL run? Stephano's runs through other recent korean dominated tournaments? Foreigners can compete with Koreans, given enough time.
So 2 people represent "more foreigners able to compete against Koreans".
Right.
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I agree with OP. These big international tournaments should have limits on how many people from each region can qualify/be invited.
Just like Champions League in football has limits for countries and it makes it more interesting to more viewers. You could easily make a Champions League that has only clubs from 5 best countries and its game quality would not fall but its viewership still would because lots of people would not be able to cheer for their clubs.
Same in Sc2, yes many people care only to see best players compete, but I am 100% sure much more people care to see their players compete, even if they get kicked out at the start. This also helps Sc2 players all over the world because they know they need to be better then other players in their country to qualify, not against 2-3 koreans and they will play for longer and try to be a progamer for longer. This helps their teams as local sponsors can count on more of local people watching the tournament.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
On June 06 2012 21:57 -Kira wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
With MLG coming up this weekend we have another one of our biggest events and it is totally dominated by Koreans again.
Because they performed better. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Lately every MLG and IPL have been totally Korean dominated
Because they perform better. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote: and that makes it just so much less interesting.
For you. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Yes I love to watch GSL, I also like to watch Broodwar OSL but when Im watching an international tournament it should be INTERNATIONAL.
In your opinion, so write a blog or cry into the pillow. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Do you know what Koreans did when they hosted their first international tournament (WCG)?
They didnt allow more than 3 players from every country to avoid a bracket with 31 Koreans in the top 32. They knew that most people would not be interested in watching a 2nd OSL which is run on 2 days.
What did they do instead? They created a tournament which greatly supported esport in dozens of countries for almost a decade.
Where are they now? Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:How does MLG ever want to present their product to a larger audience if its all about Random Korean 1 who likes noodles and plays all day against Random Korean 2 who likes noodles and plays all day? (Sorry for the polemical phrases but im quite disappointed.) Your problem with distinguishing people of other race is a touching story and almost as sad as the fact that you're watching SC2 not primarily for the gameplay. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Casual viewers know the top foreigners and a few Koreans like MC.
Then they'll get a great chance of getting to know other Korean players at the MLG. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
What makes GSL so great is the incredible level of play and the hard competition.
What has made MLG the best tournament in the past was the great athmosphere, the interesting storylines, rivalries etc. and also the great games of course.
So, there can't be storylines and rivalries between Koreans? You're genuinely that narrow minded or just racist? Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
But really, in 2012 most of that is gone.
Because your favourite player didn't make it to the bracket? Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Yes the level of play is awesome, but I can see better games in the GSL every day.
Why do you turn MLG into a one weekend GSL?
How do you know, you can see better games at GSL if the MLG hasn't happened yet. That's curious.... Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Ive bought MLG passes in the past, I will still buy GSL passes and for Homestory cup – not for MLG anymore until this changes again.
Do you think, someone at MLG HQ is gonna change the way tournament works, because one unhappy customer threatened to not buy a pass? Grow the fuck up. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
And to all the people who say that foreigners should just train harder.
Do you really think that it is realistic, especially with the BW pros switching to SC2, that we will EVER have more than 3 foreigners who can keep up with the top 30 Koreans? Its not. Keep telling yourself those excuses.
LOL Pretty much spot on my friend ^_^, OP is crying about what HE would like instead of what makes the best tournament. Its like saying would you rather watch Austria vs Poland football match because they are the same skill level but all the players on each team are similar skill level rather than watch Germany vs Spain, which happens alot as they are both good football nations and have world class players. Its a no brainer, but im pretty sure Austrians and Polish people aren't pissed off about it because its always the same teams vs eachother!! It's how sports go!!! Rank 1 vs Rank 2 happens alot in the mens Tennis finals as of late too, or atleast the Top 4 have made it to the last 2 Major's (all be it Murray and Nadal win today which im sure they will) but people still watch even though that is the case due to them being fantastic at the game. Caraaazyyy post, and yes i'd side with borderline racist.
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On June 06 2012 22:21 Ace1123 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:20 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:19 Ace1123 wrote:
AnD banning Koreans is like racism. So The OP wants koreans to stay in korea and not allow them to join tournaments in Foreign countries because they always win?. That doesn't sound right. In fact If we want Sc2 to grow more, Players all-over the world should join as many tournaments as possible worldwide A tournament is allowed to have a rule that says only 10 players per country are allowed. That is not racism even though it would be directly aimed to Koreans . So How many Countries will participate actually? so America is considered one country so there will be a lot of player who cannot join.
America isn't a country, USA, Mexico, Canada, Peru, Brazil, Argentina are countries, America is a continent.
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EPT
