EPTNBA Playoffs 2012 - Page 299
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Manu was pretty good earlier in the year but he fell off big time as the year went on. Defensively he's been as bad as ever. I wouldn't put Harden at #3 because he's a 3rd option that doesn't carry the offense enough the way Manu did for SA to be put in that tier to outdo EG/Kobe/Wade. Maybe next year he'll be featured more. Paul George not at all  Defensively he's good. Offensively I don't know what happened in the Miami series but they should probably see what happens with him as a creator. Every one of the other SGs you mentioned can at least be the primary play maker for their team and we haven't seen enough of that from Paul George yet. EG only played 3 games this season (and I dont think he was THAT banged up but the Hornets were doing w/e) but he was impressive enough in all of them and his last season with the Clippers that he's got enough stats to show something. Next year he will be "the man" on his team for sure and with an entire season + a team that played WAY above expectations + getting the #1 pick he is in good position to hog a lot of headlines | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On June 18 2012 16:37 Ace wrote: I'm interested in hearing how the 2006 Finals was unfairly reffed. Especially since you know, Dallas struggled guarding 2 -guards THE ENTIRE YEAR and ended up going against arguably the best player in the NBA that season who happened to be a 2. Evidence please? ERIC FUCKING GORDON! Going to be the 3rd best SG in the league next season. One of my favorite players, absolute MONSTER! I hope against hope, but the team just lost a bigger better monster in Chris Paul for the EG pickup. I understand it was a totally great decision for the team, I'm just gonna miss CP3  . It was a nice few years of understated relevance, though. I'm also a Saints fan so coping with shitty seasons is nothing new to me.Here's hoping Anthony Davis goes all superstar like CP3 and we put a good cast around him. If he does then EG + him would be a really great young core. That is, IF we can convince him to stick around, seeing as he'll be a RFA next year and possibly a UFA the next. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
I got a couple friends that tell me that this years draft is the deepest and most impressive since lebrons and co. Is that true? | ||
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
On June 18 2012 16:37 Ace wrote: I'm interested in hearing how the 2006 Finals was unfairly reffed. Especially since you know, Dallas struggled guarding 2 -guards THE ENTIRE YEAR and ended up going against arguably the best player in the NBA that season who happened to be a 2. Evidence please? Valid point, but the free throw disparity was unreal. Wade shattered the record for most FTA in a finals series in 6 games(99 FTA). Note that the previous record was held by Shaq, in the 2000 finals, attempted 92, while he was being intentionally fouled down the stretch of nearly every game. In game 5, Wade attempted 25 FTs... more than the ENTIRE Dallas team. (this also happened one game of the previous series against Atlanta). I know that many times FT disparity is caused by one team being more aggressive than the other, and in many cases it's as you say, if you can't guard a player you're often forced to foul. I know that you, and many others who would disagree with my points will simply dismiss it under that guise, but I just don't buy it. Having watched the games there were numerous complete phantom calls in favor of Wade. Maybe I can find a youtube clip of em or something idk. I'm not a conspiracy theorist who thinks David Stern is some Vince McMahon master puppeteer in the background, I just genuinely believe NBA officiating is handled the wrong way (Much like I think the NFL is hurting their game the way they're having it officiated), although 2002 WCF game 6 kings/lakers sometimes makes me wonder about Stern, lol. I love the game, I just think the way it's called really hurts the game | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
On June 19 2012 02:34 Tien wrote: FTA disparity is the worst argument to use to try and definitively prove that a series or game was unfairly reffed. K. | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
Either OKC needs to take him off James completely or Durant needs to think more about defense while still being good offensively because if this goes on he's going to be in a similar situation every game. | ||
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0mgVitaminE
United States1278 Posts
On June 15 2012 07:40 Holcan wrote: Nope, maybe if they were still in Seattle and there was a rivalry still, but nope. You are hinting that Blazers fans should somehow be upset that our pick was a flop, where the second pick blossomed into a top 5 player in the world. Well, lets look at this from a Blazers point of view. The year they drafted Oden, they had Brandon Roy, Larmarcus Aldridge, as well Batum, Webster, Fernandez, and Travis Outlaw. We also had capable guards in Steve Blake and Sergio Rodriguez, as well as an up and coming Bayless. This team is very loaded on the wings, and is in serious need of a post presence. Grabbing a player like Durant would not only overlap in the development of other wings, but it would have stunted Durant progress as well, it would have been bad news for everyone. A team with Roy, LMA, Oden is much more balanced than a team with Roy, Durant and LMA. The coaching style of Nate McMillan also fits the slower big man, compared to the run and gun style of Durant. So as a Portland fan, no, I do not care that the thunder are having success, and no I do not feel that the organization fucked up the draft pick. It was injuries that prevented Oden from being a dominate force in the NBA, not his lack of skills. I don't at all mean I disagreed with the choice. I was rooting for the Blazers to pick up Oden the whole way. That being said, I can't help being disappointed that our pick (which was the correct one) ending up being a flop. I also live in Seattle now, so that doesn't help. | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
unless you think roy was also a busted draft pick because he also ended up injured and waived. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
On June 18 2012 13:22 Leyra wrote: Don't disagree about preferring to read pro-player posts in BW/SC2, but the difference being, none of the "Great" posters here, are professional ball players, are they? So the comparison lacks some weight. That being said, I do the same sort of deal, I'd rather read a few quality posts than lots of random shit, but discounting someone's opinion in a subjective conversation because you haven't seen them post in the thread before is fairly ignorant. Final note, it's fine lol, it is what it is. I don't take forums as serious as some, just enjoy the conversation from time to time. ;p TL's elitism is nothing new to me, was just surprised to find it in the NBA thread of all places, lol. Edit: Besides, I don't really mind promoting elitism, but when the elite are incredibly condescending to anyone new to the scene, it hurts the scene in the long run. If you're a jackass (the only time Ace ever responded to something I said, it was condescending and abrasive, lol) to anyone new, how do you know if they may have something to contribute down the line if you're running them off immediately. If those that are now the elite, had been treated the same way, they may not even be around. Great last 2 posts Leyra. I agree with elitism in this thread being a discouraging factor to so many people. I have actually seen some valid posters post once or twice but then be blasted on by Ace (only saying that bc his name came up) or someone for the few points they have typed without giving them a proper rebuttal. It is definitely something that has irked me but has gotten better though, and I think even Ace would agree when I say that his posting has actually gotten better in a 2 year span as to that regard. Less angsty teenager type to a more well, thought-out responder (hehe). And so with that I just want to say that great post because, for the most part, you are right. We talk basketball in this thread, not rocket science. Basketball is a game, where different strategies are at play, so just because someone has a valid point in one area, it does not mean they have a valid point in everything they say. I don't support elitism or blindly following. Just because a good poster has good points does not mean he can't be wrong on others, and it is an insult to not call him out (at least I would take it as one). For that reason, explanations are needed for this thread and condescending comments should not be taken as facts just because a known poster says so. On June 19 2012 00:07 Leyra wrote: Valid point, but the free throw disparity was unreal. Wade shattered the record for most FTA in a finals series in 6 games(99 FTA). Note that the previous record was held by Shaq, in the 2000 finals, attempted 92, while he was being intentionally fouled down the stretch of nearly every game. In game 5, Wade attempted 25 FTs... more than the ENTIRE Dallas team. (this also happened one game of the previous series against Atlanta). I know that many times FT disparity is caused by one team being more aggressive than the other, and in many cases it's as you say, if you can't guard a player you're often forced to foul. I know that you, and many others who would disagree with my points will simply dismiss it under that guise, but I just don't buy it. Having watched the games there were numerous complete phantom calls in favor of Wade. Maybe I can find a youtube clip of em or something idk. I'm not a conspiracy theorist who thinks David Stern is some Vince McMahon master puppeteer in the background, I just genuinely believe NBA officiating is handled the wrong way (Much like I think the NFL is hurting their game the way they're having it officiated), although 2002 WCF game 6 kings/lakers sometimes makes me wonder about Stern, lol. I love the game, I just think the way it's called really hurts the game Agree with a lot of stuff here, I am just not so sure about using this specific example as the main point of your premise. Although FTA disparity alone is not a reliable stat to argue for referee bias, it does provide a glimpse into how the series went so I will just run with that a little. Basketball is unlike other sports, in which it is a game of runs (a played-out phrase, I know). That is to say that unlike baseball or football, there is no "home-run" play. There is no taking the game-kickoff all the way back for a TD to put your team up 7-0, or a counter-attack goal in the first few or final minutes of a tight soccer/hockey game, or a blast with a bat to take the ball out to the stands. It is a game that relies on momentum and runs, and that is something that can easily be messed with by a bad call or a bad ref, which goes to the reason why refs are so important/critical in the NBA(arguably more than other sports). With the way the NBA is designed, most close games are decided in the final few plays or even the last play. But runs and calls in the beginning of the game are just as important at the end of the game. This has created more of an emphasis on the refs at the end of the game though and because of that, they now have to have some major "balls" to make some calls. This leads to refs having that unconscious fear of making an unnecessary call that will then be criticized, which leads to them making some bad no-calls. Then there are some that make some bad calls in general, either on purpose, by accident, or by nerves. It doesn't help that some calls are "designed to fool the ref"-like Stern has said- such as flopping, which just makes them look worse when held under public scrutiny and in the age of digital media where everyone can watch the play over and over, slow it down, zoom in, etc.. In any case, (I had to get up and them come back later to finish this post) I kind of forgot my train-of-thought and where I was heading with this but I guess I mainly agree with how reffing hurts the game. Refs have a huge role in the game, in ways that sometimes aren't obvious to the blind eye. The important things is being consistent with the game-calling, whether it be throughout the season, or during the game. The best refs are the ones that set the tone early on and then the players have to learn to play with the way they the game is being called. Bottomline: NBA reffing/rules needs some changes, which I think they are starting to look into (how good of a job they do, will be left for us to decide). I have too many thoughts about the reffing in the NBA so I will just stop there and say that I agree, and keep posting =) edit: Wasn't able to watch the last 2 games of the conference finals and now the actual finals so I haven't been able to post about them games but hope to see the games closer here on out | ||
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timdoozy
United States50 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
Like, read an IdrA post, its just straight up whining, and most people that know advanced knowledge, either dont post, or don't speak English as a first language. I'd rather read a random person make a logical coherent point on an issue, than read ESV-Diamond, or Xeris bitch about w/e unfair call was made against them in an obvious bias manner. The entire "he has a green check mark next to his name UPVOTE" is the entire reason /r/starcraft is a terrible circle jerk, and players with a reputation get a lot more leeway to make shitty posts (from the mods, not the community) than a random person, so their contributions on teamliquid are not some gold standard. All that being said, if Gordon Hayward posted here, I'm pretty sure I would take his word as the gospel. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
 but agree with a lot of what you said lol. | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
Conversely, say Gordon Hayward comes and starts posting in this thread, but doesn't mention who he is.. Some would be willing to discount his input simply because they haven't seen him around here before ;p | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
And yea, you prove my point, although those players arent exactly randoms, they are people who are not known by the common fan, yet contribute in a manner that is greater than most professionals. | ||
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
It would be fuckin sweet if Hayward posted there though. lol. | ||
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