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School Shooting in Ohio - 3 Dead, 2 Injured - Page 9
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As always, with topics as complex and sensitive as these, please take a minute to think before you post. If this thread is to stay open the following must be avoided: - Disrespect to any of the parties involved (be it the bullies or bullied) The above includes: - Justifying or glorifying death or suicide as deserved - Disregarding or belittling the circumstances that give rise to these situations There's a reason why these discussions are always so sensitive. There are extremes on either side of the discussion that are disrespectful and narrow-minded in their own ways; the best approach is to carefully consider the other side before posting Warnings and bans will be handed out for unreasoned and insensitive statements. | ||
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SockArms
United States591 Posts
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HereBeDragons
1429 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:57 red_ wrote: Updating as much as I can before I have to leave for class: This part is still an unconfirmed rumor, but a rumor that comes from the people at the school: TJ was on the bad end of a drug deal(got some fake dope, wasn't happy about it). He didn't even go to Chardon, he was there to catch a bus to Auburn Career Center for PSEO, and Chardon happens to be a hub for people attending that from the local schools. The people he targeted also go to Auburn for PSEO, except for the female, who was completely uninvolved. He was a 'special needs' student(not for learning disability, but for counseling of some sort), so there could be a level of mental illness. He was actually chased out of the cafeteria by a teacher, and turned to shoot the teacher(missed all shots). When he ran off of school grounds, all local schools were put on lockdown, and some nearby businesses as well. He didn't just walk in and shoot, he was sitting at a table for quite some time, built up whatever emotions he required to go through with it, stood up and opened fire(his first bullet grazed the ear of a kid sitting right in front of him, minor detail but he was interviewed and his ear was bloody so it's worth tossing in there). That's all I have for now, the local media is actually being incredibly thorough interviewing kids and staff and getting out facts about the event, hopefully their detail is proliferated to the national media outlets so people can hear the real story. Ahh yes, thank you for the response. I'd rather take this rumor rather than the crap that the media publish. Multiple instances now that it would later be revealed that what the media writes often have absolutely nothing to do with what happened. A few years ago, I happen to have an acquaintance that attends a high school in Montana that involved someone committing a suicide. It turns out the media completely twisted the story into something else. | ||
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relyt
United States1073 Posts
 . Does anyone know what he was bullied for or how severe the bullying was? I mean it obvioiusly had to have been pretty bad for the kid to shoot people, but you'd think the teachers and staff would do something about it if it ever got that bad.EDIT: So I'm seeing he wasn't even bullied now? Guess I'll just have to wait until I see the full story later today. | ||
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Emperor_Earth
United States824 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:25 TwoToneTerran wrote: Comparing human psychology to animals is preposterous. Human behavior is dictated by society more than by primal instinct (one incurred the other and you can see remnants of it leftover in society, but my point stands). What the heck? I'm speaking purely about intrapersonal bullying behaviors. This is such an obtuse and unrelated point and a horrific stretch on the term bullying. I'm stopping here. Humans don't emit pheromones, you have no idea what you're talking. I was about to humor a debate on what you were saying but you're clearly speaking from a poorly thought out position to start clearly making things up from stuff you hear in popular culture like human pheromones that cause bullying. That's right out of an Axe bodyspray commercial. Actually, the man you are bashing is right in many respects. Humans do emit pheremones, the biological imperatives are still stronger than societal, and the nation metaphor is an extension of the group effect in interpersonal (not intrapersonal) conflicts. Intrapersonal conflict is on you. Interpersonal is what we're interested in here. Normally I agree with your levelheadedness TTT, but here I cannot concur. | ||
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theBOOCH
United States832 Posts
This is what happens when no one in school gives a single fuck about bullying. Too true, there is so little help for people being bullied that it's the wild west as far as students are concerned. With no authority figures to appeal to, students feel that they have no choice but to take things into their own hands, which is never to anyone's benefit. | ||
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kellenr
98 Posts
And assuming someone deserves to be killed for bullying is... laughable. We've all done it, at least once. And I don't think we deserve a death sentence. It's hard to see an abnormal event through a normal lens. The media is always going to place the blame on bullying because that makes sense to "normal" people. But a lot of these lone wolf's aren't like you and I, so the things that motivate us don't necessarily motivate them. Never underestimate the psychopath. If you're feeling empathy for them, they're essentially duping you. Never, ever blame the victim. That's the number one thing psychopaths do. "If she just hadn't of looked at me like that, I wouldn't have had to kill her!!" | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:57 red_ wrote: Updating as much as I can before I have to leave for class: This part is still an unconfirmed rumor, but a rumor that comes from the people at the school: TJ was on the bad end of a drug deal(got some fake dope, wasn't happy about it). He didn't even go to Chardon, he was there to catch a bus to Auburn Career Center for PSEO, and Chardon happens to be a hub for people attending that from the local schools. The people he targeted also go to Auburn for PSEO, except for the female, who was completely uninvolved. He was a 'special needs' student(not for learning disability, but for counseling of some sort), so there could be a level of mental illness. He was actually chased out of the cafeteria by a teacher, and turned to shoot the teacher(missed all shots). When he ran off of school grounds, all local schools were put on lockdown, and some nearby businesses as well. He didn't just walk in and shoot, he was sitting at a table for quite some time, built up whatever emotions he required to go through with it, stood up and opened fire(his first bullet grazed the ear of a kid sitting right in front of him, minor detail but he was interviewed and his ear was bloody so it's worth tossing in there). That's all I have for now, the local media is actually being incredibly thorough interviewing kids and staff and getting out facts about the event, hopefully their detail is proliferated to the national media outlets so people can hear the real story. I saw the interview on tv of the kid who was grazed on the ear, notice how he didn't say one word as to why the shooter decided to wait for that specific table of kids. I wouldn't want to admit on TV that me or my friends bullied a school shooter either. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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tylervoss4
182 Posts
On February 28 2012 06:18 theBOOCH wrote: Too true, there is so little help for people being bullied that it's the wild west as far as students are concerned. With no authority figures to appeal to, students feel that they have no choice but to take things into their own hands, which is never to anyone's benefit. I was bullied heavilly in grade 8. To a level where it was so obvious by everyone in the school but noone cared. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On February 28 2012 06:18 kellenr wrote: If someone is a bully for years how is it possible to look at him as a victim? Sure shooting is a more serious crime at the end of the day but you're going too far by defending the bullies to this extent. Has anyone here even read Columbine by Dave Cullen? Don't just chalk this up to bullying so easily. While it might be a factor, it's definitely not the only factor. A lot of times these outcasts are severe bullies themselves (Eric and Dylan were) And assuming someone deserves to be killed for bullying is... laughable. We've all done it, at least once. And I don't think we deserve a death sentence. It's hard to see an abnormal event through a normal lens. The media is always going to place the blame on bullying because that makes sense to "normal" people. But a lot of these lone wolf's aren't like you and I, so the things that motivate us don't necessarily motivate them. Never underestimate the psychopath. If you're feeling empathy for them, they're essentially duping you. Never, ever blame the victim. That's the number one thing psychopaths do. "If she just hadn't of looked at me like that, I wouldn't have had to kill her!!" Also don't give me that BS "everyone's a bully at least once" There are different severeties of bullying bro. | ||
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missefficiency
Germany105 Posts
People aren't born bullies or victims. People become either of this by not being able to cope with an ego problem. Bullies push their ego by treating other people like shit, even though they basically suffer from the exact same problem. Victims are the ones who don't dare to do that and, if you increase the bully pressure enough, eventually snap and go berserk. But what happens if you go and see a teacher or counsellor about being bullied? They explain to you that "boys will be boys", that "you are an intelligent person who ought to know that they only do it because they're jealous" and that "it will get better if you just ignore it". Well, and that is, if I may say so, complete and utter bullshit. It doesn't get better. They're not jealous. It goes on because it makes them feel good, they feel good by making you feel bad. But you are nice and understanding. You are better than that. After all, all it does is ruin your life. On the other hand, if a bully is taken to the school's psychologist because "O my gawd, he really pushed that kid into a locker" - he'll seem unbreakable. Sitting there and being silent or agressive, being told to "never do that again, and as for now I'll have to call your parents" or hearing the wonderfully effective "what's wrong with you?", he'll feel that his privacy is being invaded, he's being controlled and belittlet, he needs a let out and pushes two more kids into lockers. All because he hates them for reminding him how insecure he feels himself by also looking that way. And both teachers and parents are surprised if they are told that their student, their child is being a bully. Or suffers from one, respectively suffered from one and shot him. I bet there were signs, they just didn't see them, or listened to them or deliberately ignored them to protect themselves. I don't have a solution, I only figured the above dynamics out over three years after graduating. It would have been helpful to know it back then, to try and apply it and maybe make a difference (or getting laughed at for trying, who knows), only I didn't know it. As for the shooting: I understand the shooter and am deeply sorry he had to suffer so much he saw no other choice, but I still can't and won't approve of killing others. | ||
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KrsOne
United States64 Posts
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relyt
United States1073 Posts
On February 28 2012 06:26 KrsOne wrote: It's funny so many people are say that getting bullied is no reason to shoot someone (which it clearly isn't) but no one is saying that having a bad home life is no reason to be a bully. I believe both of those statments. I don't think you should shoot someone because they bullied you, and I don't think you should bully just because you have a terrible life at home. | ||
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kellenr
98 Posts
On February 28 2012 06:24 Kamais Ookin wrote: If someone is a bully for years how is it possible to look at him as a victim? Sure shooting is a more serious crime at the end of the day but you're going too far by defending the bullies to this extent. Also don't give me that BS "everyone's a bully at least once" There are different severeties of bullying bro. The fact that you think any bullying, no matter how severe, should be justifiably punished by death is LAUGHABLE. I hope you don't truly believe that. I'm not saying the bullies are innocent, i'm saying they don't deserve death. See the difference? I mean, we don't even give child molesters the death penalty (we should) and you think someone deserves it for bullying? Forgive me if i think you're a big idiot. | ||
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Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
I find crazy the people saying a bully deserves to die.I consider that we are on a nerdy forum so maybe a lot of you guys suffered from it as kids. But the bully was a kid as well. Most of the bullies regret after, and become nice persons as adults. The bullies should be punished for bullying, and looked closely on. But certainly not die. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On February 28 2012 06:31 kellenr wrote: Nowhere in my post did I say that killing bullies is what needs to be done. What I said was that bullies aren't victims the way you were describing them to be. The fact that you think any bullying, no matter how severe, should be justifiably punished by death is LAUGHABLE. I hope you don't truly believe that. I'm not saying the bullies are innocent, i'm saying they don't deserve death. See the difference? I mean, we don't even give child molesters the death penalty (we should) and you think someone deserves it for bullying? Forgive me if i think you're a big idiot. By the way, "Never ever blame the victim" doesn't really support your post saying "I'm not saying the bullies are innocent." | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
From TJ's online post: "He was better than the rest, all those ones he detests, within their castles, so vain. Selfish and conceited. They couldn’t care less about the peasents they mistreated. They were in their own world, it was a joyous one too. " Reading between the lines, it sounds like he was bullied, at least in his own view. And you can bet that anyone who bullied him (whether frequently or seldom) would be quick to affirm any story that it was drug or ex-girlfriend related. No one wants to be publicly villified as the reason that this kid went nuts. Either way, we still need more hard facts on what his motives were. | ||
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Spekulatius
Germany2413 Posts
On February 28 2012 06:33 TanTzoR wrote: Kids are cruel, we have all been more or less bullies in order to not get rejected. He didn't deserve to die for that. Sad the bullied didn't find any other way to express his despair, I wouldn't take the bully as responsible but the adults. Also if the kid didn't have access to a gun it wouldn't maybe have ended this bad. I find crazy the people saying a bully deserves to die.I consider that we are on a nerdy forum so maybe a lot of you guys suffered from it as kids. But the bully was a kid as well. Most of the bullies regret after, and become nice persons as adults. The bullies should be punished for bullying, and looked closely on. But certainly not die. I agree with the rest of the post. But the bolded part is far from the truth. Asshole children become asshole adults. For instance, I've been keeping in touch with my schoolmates from way back who are now 25-30 (we meet up once a year). What I've learned there is that people never their. Their behavior does, sometimes, due to social pressure or adaptation but they stay who they are. This barely affects the discussion, just wanted to get that out. | ||
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kellenr
98 Posts
On February 28 2012 06:36 Kamais Ookin wrote: Nowhere in my post did I say that killing bullies is what needs to be done. What I said was that bullies aren't victims the way you were describing them to be. By the way, "Never ever blame the victim" doesn't really support your post saying "I'm not saying the bullies are innocent." Wow... Really? When i say "victim" i mean the victim of the violent crime, not the victim of the bullying! Were the 13 innoccent people that died at Columbine victims, or were Eric and Dylan the victims? How could the person that GETS SHOT not be the VICTIM?? | ||
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sevencck
Canada705 Posts
On February 28 2012 05:35 HaXXspetten wrote: This is why bullying needs to be stopped early This is why more gun regulation is required, and that's the most restrained way I can put it. A child going through emotional distress and torment shouldn't have such easy access to a gun (nobody should for that matter). It's not like we're a society of people who don't care about bullying, people do care about it and try to prevent/combat it. It's not so easy to do though, it's kind of an unfortunate fact of life. I was bullied as a kid, but I'm on good terms with the kids who bullied me now. I'm glad we were all able to live and grow like humans are supposed to. I'm glad I was able to learn to cope with it and grow and become friends with them. I'm glad they were able to learn and grow. When you get shot and killed you don't get the opportunity to grow and become more than you are. What's difficult about this is you can't even just throw the kid in jail, society bears a great deal of responsibility for this. If he lives in a society with access to guns and has been told he has the right to use them to defend himself how much can you blame him? | ||
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