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As always, with topics as complex and sensitive as these, please take a minute to think before you post. If this thread is to stay open the following must be avoided:
- Disrespect to any of the parties involved (be it the bullies or bullied)
The above includes:
- Justifying or glorifying death or suicide as deserved
- Disregarding or belittling the circumstances that give rise to these situations
There's a reason why these discussions are always so sensitive. There are extremes on either side of the discussion that are disrespectful and narrow-minded in their own ways; the best approach is to carefully consider the other side before posting
Warnings and bans will be handed out for unreasoned and insensitive statements. |
On February 28 2012 06:15 Emperor_Earth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:25 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 28 2012 05:19 Spieltor wrote:
no, bullying is a product of humanity, and alpha and beta types of people.
This has been observed in chickens as well, hence the term "pecking order". Comparing human psychology to animals is preposterous. Human behavior is dictated by society more than by primal instinct (one incurred the other and you can see remnants of it leftover in society, but my point stands). What countries right now are trying to bully what other countries? What the heck? I'm speaking purely about intrapersonal bullying behaviors. This is such an obtuse and unrelated point and a horrific stretch on the term bullying. there will always be bullies just as there will always be people who emit the pheromones and body language and behavior saying "everyone bully me". If you've looked at twins who've been separated for life, they dance the same way to the same music that they've never heard before and are being tested with. the will to bully or the target sign on your back to be bullied is genetically determined. I'm stopping here. Humans don't emit pheromones, you have no idea what you're talking. I was about to humor a debate on what you were saying but you're clearly speaking from a poorly thought out position to start clearly making things up from stuff you hear in popular culture like human pheromones that cause bullying. That's right out of an Axe bodyspray commercial. Actually, the man you are bashing is right in many respects. Humans do emit pheremones, the biological imperatives are still stronger than societal, and the nation metaphor is an extension of the group effect in interpersonal (not intrapersonal) conflicts. Intrapersonal conflict is on you. Interpersonal is what we're interested in here. Normally I agree with your levelheadedness TTT, but here I cannot concur.
I want a source on this. It has been very conclusively shown there is no proof of any human pheromones. We emit smells and have olfactory sensors, but nothing of the sort when it comes to what is defined as a pheromone. We don't even have the part of the brain that other animals have that detects pheromones.
There are certainly no "bully me" pheromones. Human bullying is such a complex and specific social dynamic that doesn't even really exist in the wild in the same way. It's like saying what animals have is spoken language in comparison.
Also, biological imperatives are not stronger than conditioned ones. You do not walk up to and have sex with anything you find attractive. Most humans don't. That's the most foundational and important biological imperative supplanted by societal conditioning, plain and simple.
On the intrapersonal bit, my bad. Twas a gaffe.
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On February 28 2012 07:10 rhs408 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:00 GreEny K wrote:On February 28 2012 06:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 06:43 kellenr wrote:
I suppose Ted Bundy was a victim too. I mean his long time girlfriend left him, and he went around killing like 40 people that looked like her.
I can't believe she broke poor Ted's heart like that!! He's such a victim!!
User was warned for this post You equate years of bullying to a girlfriend leaving a guy...? You a troll bro? The shooters(TJ Lane) ex girlfriend left him and started dating the guy who died(Russel)... Since you obviously have so much more information that all of us as well as the national media, why don't you provide more details? The gf story sounds like something that a bully would make up in order to cover their tracks. Prove me wrong?
CNN has reported this, as well as a testimony from some victims saying that it is true. You shouldn't be so aggressive.
Well, it turns out that this kid is a serious psychopath based on some stuff he allegedly posted on facebook. What a shame that 1, possibly 3 lives were taken. I really hope that the 2 kids in critical condition end up OK, as well as that the shooter is kept away from society where he can't hurt anyone anymore.
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On February 28 2012 07:05 Kamais Ookin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:00 GreEny K wrote:On February 28 2012 06:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 06:43 kellenr wrote:
I suppose Ted Bundy was a victim too. I mean his long time girlfriend left him, and he went around killing like 40 people that looked like her.
I can't believe she broke poor Ted's heart like that!! He's such a victim!!
User was warned for this post You equate years of bullying to a girlfriend leaving a guy...? You a troll bro? The shooters(TJ Lane) ex girlfriend left him and started dating the guy who died(Russel)... First of all source please. 2nd of all, if that's the case, it was probably the last straw that broke the camels back for TJ and sped up the process of him snapping, however with the bullying it would have happened anyways eventually.
It's interesting that you request a source. (The source is here by the way and is easy to locate with a Google search.)
Speaking of sources, which source leads you to conclude that T.J. Lane suffered through years of bullying from the people that he shot? I have a dozen or two articles on the story by now. I have read the words "described as bullied" and "outcast" and "apparently bullied" several times. I have never read anything as specific as the information that you seem to be privy to. Where are you getting your information?
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On February 28 2012 07:12 ampson wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:10 rhs408 wrote:On February 28 2012 07:00 GreEny K wrote:On February 28 2012 06:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 06:43 kellenr wrote:
I suppose Ted Bundy was a victim too. I mean his long time girlfriend left him, and he went around killing like 40 people that looked like her.
I can't believe she broke poor Ted's heart like that!! He's such a victim!!
User was warned for this post You equate years of bullying to a girlfriend leaving a guy...? You a troll bro? The shooters(TJ Lane) ex girlfriend left him and started dating the guy who died(Russel)... Since you obviously have so much more information that all of us as well as the national media, why don't you provide more details? The gf story sounds like something that a bully would make up in order to cover their tracks. Prove me wrong? CNN has reported this, as well as a testimony from some victims saying that it is true. You shouldn't be so aggressive.
CNN also interviewed a kid (live) who said that the group of kids had bullied him (the shooter).
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On February 28 2012 07:10 rhs408 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:00 GreEny K wrote:On February 28 2012 06:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 06:43 kellenr wrote:
I suppose Ted Bundy was a victim too. I mean his long time girlfriend left him, and he went around killing like 40 people that looked like her.
I can't believe she broke poor Ted's heart like that!! He's such a victim!!
User was warned for this post You equate years of bullying to a girlfriend leaving a guy...? You a troll bro? The shooters(TJ Lane) ex girlfriend left him and started dating the guy who died(Russel)... Since you obviously have so much more information than all of us as well as the national media, why don't you provide more details? The gf story sounds like something that a bully would make up in order to cover their tracks and not be publicly villified... Prove me wrong?
We're all using second-handed evidences and none of us are true witnesses. There is no "prove me wrong" or "hard facts" here. It's up to the readers to evaluate which "rumor" sounds closest to the truth or none at all. Trying to push people around with that attitude is not going to lead this anywhere near "discussion".
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I want to hear interviews of kids who were not friends with anyone at this "table of friends," they could all be covering their own asses.
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On February 28 2012 07:16 HereBeDragons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:10 rhs408 wrote:On February 28 2012 07:00 GreEny K wrote:On February 28 2012 06:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 06:43 kellenr wrote:
I suppose Ted Bundy was a victim too. I mean his long time girlfriend left him, and he went around killing like 40 people that looked like her.
I can't believe she broke poor Ted's heart like that!! He's such a victim!!
User was warned for this post You equate years of bullying to a girlfriend leaving a guy...? You a troll bro? The shooters(TJ Lane) ex girlfriend left him and started dating the guy who died(Russel)... Since you obviously have so much more information than all of us as well as the national media, why don't you provide more details? The gf story sounds like something that a bully would make up in order to cover their tracks and not be publicly villified... Prove me wrong? We're all using second-handed evidences and none of us are true witnesses. There is no "prove me wrong" or "hard facts" here. It's up to the readers to evaluate which "rumor" sounds closest to the truth or none at all. Trying to push people around with that attitude is not going to lead this anywhere near "discussion".
I was just asking for more details since he is implying (earlier in the thread) that he has his own sources who directly know the individuals involved.
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i really don't get how people sympathize with the gunmen... he ended someones life, tried to kill 4 others, and people are saying "oh it was because he was bullied.." fuck this kid, you should feel bad for all of the people getting bullied who are nice enough to not shoot up a school.. oh well, it's easy to be anonymous on the internet
edit ~ violence shouldn't be met with more violence, it should be met with reason and order... we aren't barbarians.
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I got picked on a bit in high school. One time a guy twice my size with huge muscles came up behind me unprovoked and put me in a headlock choke hold. Class had just ended, the teacher wasn't around, and most the students were still there getting up to leave. The situation for some reason struck me as very comical and I started laughing. Since my neck was getting squeezed, it sounded less like laughter and more like I was choking to death. Some girl eventually screamed at him to stop, and after a minute or so, he did. I continued laughing for a few more seconds, then I turned around and stared him in the face. Still smiling and with a steady voice, I said in front of everyone, "If you ever do that to me again, I'm going to kill you." Then, I gathered up my things and went to my next class.
Now would I have actually killed him if he continued the next day? Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't have brought a gun to school to ice the guy. However, I definitely would have resorted to some kind of extreme violence, even if it meant getting my face pounded in the process.
I never got bullied by him again.
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On February 28 2012 07:13 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:05 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 07:00 GreEny K wrote:On February 28 2012 06:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 06:43 kellenr wrote:
I suppose Ted Bundy was a victim too. I mean his long time girlfriend left him, and he went around killing like 40 people that looked like her.
I can't believe she broke poor Ted's heart like that!! He's such a victim!!
User was warned for this post You equate years of bullying to a girlfriend leaving a guy...? You a troll bro? The shooters(TJ Lane) ex girlfriend left him and started dating the guy who died(Russel)... First of all source please. 2nd of all, if that's the case, it was probably the last straw that broke the camels back for TJ and sped up the process of him snapping, however with the bullying it would have happened anyways eventually. It's interesting that you request a source. (The source is here by the way and is easy to locate with a Google search.) Speaking of sources, which source leads you to conclude that T.J. Lane suffered through years of bullying from the people that he shot? I have a dozen or two articles on the story by now. I have read the words "described as bullied" and "outcast" and "apparently bullied" several times. I have never read anything as specific as the information that you seem to be privy to. Where are you getting your information? I'm just as lost as anyone else here brother. I'm not too knowledgeable on this specific story and I've noticed new information keeps on getting mentioned throughout the thread.
Bully and them getting killed is pretty common these days so everything I talk about in this thread is more general and broad.
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On February 28 2012 07:23 Endymion wrote:
i really don't get how people sympathize with the gunmen... he ended someones life, tried to kill 4 others, and people are saying "oh it was because he was bullied.." fuck this kid, you should feel bad for all of the people getting bullied who are nice enough to not shoot up a school.. oh well, it's easy to be anonymous on the internet
edit ~ violence shouldn't be met with more violence, it should be met with reason and order... we aren't barbarians.
This, good lord this. Finally, someone with a brain.
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On February 28 2012 07:23 Endymion wrote:
i really don't get how people sympathize with the gunmen... he ended someones life, tried to kill 4 others, and people are saying "oh it was because he was bullied.." fuck this kid, you should feel bad for all of the people getting bullied who are nice enough to not shoot up a school.. oh well, it's easy to be anonymous on the internet
edit ~ violence shouldn't be met with more violence, it should be met with reason and order... we aren't barbarians. Oh really? How come the school doesn't step up to the plate and offer reason and order? Parents? Adults? Any classmates? ANYONE?!
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On February 28 2012 07:27 Kamais Ookin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:23 Endymion wrote:
i really don't get how people sympathize with the gunmen... he ended someones life, tried to kill 4 others, and people are saying "oh it was because he was bullied.." fuck this kid, you should feel bad for all of the people getting bullied who are nice enough to not shoot up a school.. oh well, it's easy to be anonymous on the internet
edit ~ violence shouldn't be met with more violence, it should be met with reason and order... we aren't barbarians. Oh really? How come the school doesn't step up to the plate and offer reason and order? Parents? Adults? Any classmates? ANYONE?!
yeah, they're at fault. does this mean bringing a gun in to shoot someone deserves our pride and empathy?
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On February 28 2012 06:58 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:It's really shitty when things come to a point like this that people are pushed to violence to resolve it. Some kids got nothing better to do but to bully and no one teaches them otherwise, and people ask why things like this happen. Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 06:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 06:43 kellenr wrote:
I suppose Ted Bundy was a victim too. I mean his long time girlfriend left him, and he went around killing like 40 people that looked like her.
I can't believe she broke poor Ted's heart like that!! He's such a victim!!
User was warned for this post You equate years of bullying to a girlfriend leaving a guy...? You a troll bro? He's being sarcastic lol.
I thought that would, you know, go without saying... never over estimate the power of stupidity.
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On February 28 2012 07:28 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:27 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 07:23 Endymion wrote:
i really don't get how people sympathize with the gunmen... he ended someones life, tried to kill 4 others, and people are saying "oh it was because he was bullied.." fuck this kid, you should feel bad for all of the people getting bullied who are nice enough to not shoot up a school.. oh well, it's easy to be anonymous on the internet
edit ~ violence shouldn't be met with more violence, it should be met with reason and order... we aren't barbarians. Oh really? How come the school doesn't step up to the plate and offer reason and order? Parents? Adults? Any classmates? ANYONE?! yeah, they're at fault. does this mean bringing a gun in to shoot someone deserves our pride and empathy? No it doesn't and no one in this thread to my knowledge has said that shooting them was the right thing to do. However, what are your solutions to the victim of bullies as no one gives a single fuck? Should he have committed suicide? Should he just get bullied forever?
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On February 28 2012 07:23 Endymion wrote:
i really don't get how people sympathize with the gunmen... he ended someones life, tried to kill 4 others, and people are saying "oh it was because he was bullied.." fuck this kid, you should feel bad for all of the people getting bullied who are nice enough to not shoot up a school.. oh well, it's easy to be anonymous on the internet
edit ~ violence shouldn't be met with more violence, it should be met with reason and order... we aren't barbarians.
I think we have a big misunderstanding in this thread. You can't deny the bolded statement if the media coverage isn't total crap.
1) The bullying was the cause of the shooting. That's kinda clear.
2) People feel sympathy for the shooter because he was bullied. Of course this causes more empathy because the shooter was a former victim. Even more so since many of us have gone through the same pain.
3) The related, yet to be separately answered question is that of the justification. And I don't even think there's a lot of disagreement there. Of course shooting someone for bullying you, no matter the duration and severity, is not justified. But given the backstory, it's easily explainable. People just need to stop confusing explanation and justification.
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On February 28 2012 07:29 kellenr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 06:58 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:It's really shitty when things come to a point like this that people are pushed to violence to resolve it. Some kids got nothing better to do but to bully and no one teaches them otherwise, and people ask why things like this happen. On February 28 2012 06:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 06:43 kellenr wrote:
I suppose Ted Bundy was a victim too. I mean his long time girlfriend left him, and he went around killing like 40 people that looked like her.
I can't believe she broke poor Ted's heart like that!! He's such a victim!!
User was warned for this post You equate years of bullying to a girlfriend leaving a guy...? You a troll bro? He's being sarcastic lol. I thought that would, you know, go without saying... never over estimate the power of stupidity. lol you get warned for that post and you call me stupid?
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On February 28 2012 07:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:There are certainly no "bully me" pheromones. Human bullying is such a complex and specific social dynamic that doesn't even really exist in the wild in the same way. It's like saying what animals have is spoken language in comparison.
Also, biological imperatives are not stronger than conditioned ones. You do not walk up to and have sex with anything you find attractive. Most humans don't. That's the most foundational and important biological imperative supplanted by societal conditioning, plain and simple.
Agreed. Bullying victim selection is primarily a social phenomenon.
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for some reason, some people here are commenting on how the kid that got bullied "couldnt handle his own problems" or "overreacting to jerks" or something simular. being bullied at school isn´t just something that happends to you and nothing more. i was bullied and it fucking tore me appart, i had no friends, no self-esteem and almost socially retarded. That is not something u get over instantly and it is still effecting me today and im gona be scarred after that for quite some time. Bullying in schools is completely misunderstood or ignored, no one does anything about it and this is how it ends. i dont feel sorry for any1 but the poor kid who was bullied because even he was "only" bullied, they might have fucked up his whole life by "only bullying" him or just being jerks. It isnt like that and the sooner people realize that, the sooner something MIGHT be done about this fucking thing.
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On February 28 2012 07:31 Kamais Ookin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:28 Endymion wrote:On February 28 2012 07:27 Kamais Ookin wrote:On February 28 2012 07:23 Endymion wrote:
i really don't get how people sympathize with the gunmen... he ended someones life, tried to kill 4 others, and people are saying "oh it was because he was bullied.." fuck this kid, you should feel bad for all of the people getting bullied who are nice enough to not shoot up a school.. oh well, it's easy to be anonymous on the internet
edit ~ violence shouldn't be met with more violence, it should be met with reason and order... we aren't barbarians. Oh really? How come the school doesn't step up to the plate and offer reason and order? Parents? Adults? Any classmates? ANYONE?! yeah, they're at fault. does this mean bringing a gun in to shoot someone deserves our pride and empathy? No it doesn't and no one in this thread to my knowledge has said that shooting them was the right thing to do. However, what are your solutions to the victim of bullies as no one gives a single fuck? Should he have committed suicide? Should he just get bullied forever?
I don't know, how does everyone deal with bullying? it's part of human life, when you come in to contact with others it tends to happen because people are egocentric and stupid. it doesn't end at the end of highschool.. i don't see people walking around with glocks in nyc because they want to shoot some random person being rude to them, we live in civilization. use wit to get yourself out of these situations, not violence.. and people ARE being empathetic towards the shooter, just like they were towards columbine and towards virginia tech..
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EPT
