No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat.
Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point.
Mods, please make "give it time" bannable
We gave sc2 ten's year of time to develop it self in to the ultimate "E-Sports" game like DB and friends have been preaching , I mean I still recall them saying the editor " Can Do ANYTHING " . Well if it can do anything than un clump the units and not make it into the ball when you right click a control group of units to the destination you ordered them to go.
mind you, what is the exact problem with units clumping up? i mean it's easy enough to unclump and spread, while you still have the option of clumping.
Well let's just say I prefer my unit's to be more spread out than I am in a ball formation ?
Is that a specific reason for that? or is it just a preference? I mean it's not that difficult to continue spreading and unclumping as you move in sc2, and clumping has its uses.
Please spend one minute of your time and watch this video. After that, tell me which looks better, spread out units or having all of them in a ball.
On January 24 2012 12:58 insanet wrote: I already lost hope on sc2 with dustin browder and david kim designing this game, the only way to save sc2 is to fire them.
they want to balance bronze league and grandmaster at the same time and that is retarded, they should balance everything about grandmasters and then release a newbie mod or ladder or whatever for lower leagues if they care so much.
they actually say that they care more about the higher leagues/pro scene than the lower leagues....
well you are naive if believe everything they say. look, this is what they promised us, at the starcraft 2 zerg reveal trailer 2 years ago
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Cool.
but what we actually got? this shit.
You're complaining you didn't get what was shown in a game trailer in the same breath as calling someone else naive?
On January 24 2012 12:58 insanet wrote: I already lost hope on sc2 with dustin browder and david kim designing this game, the only way to save sc2 is to fire them.
they want to balance bronze league and grandmaster at the same time and that is retarded, they should balance everything about grandmasters and then release a newbie mod or ladder or whatever for lower leagues if they care so much.
they actually say that they care more about the higher leagues/pro scene than the lower leagues....
well you are naive if believe everything they say. look, this is what they promised us, at the starcraft 2 zerg reveal trailer 2 years ago
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Cool.
but what we actually got? this shit.
You're complaining you didn't get what was shown in a game trailer in the same breath as calling someone else naive?
Looking at that trailer I think the pathfinding algorithm was actually different at that point, perhaps to try to emulate BW. But at some point they might have just said "Ah screw it, let's just have big clumps"
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
On January 24 2012 12:33 jidolboy wrote: Clumping units for me makes it hard to distinguish what exactly is going on. Also if it is indeed easy to spread units, then why do I still see big ball merging each other for every game of sc2
That's the million dollar question, really. BW fans say it's because BW is a better game, and SC2 fans (counter-intuitively) say that it's because SC2 players are bad. We're starting to see SC2 players purposefully split up their units more to avoid splash, get better flanks, etc
But generally, micro in SC2 is less important than having a better build. There was a game about a month ago where Puma opened 14CC against 1 -rax FE. Puma lost one SCV scout and that was yet. Despite having a less greedy opening and doing no damage to make up for it, though, Thorzain attacked after ten minutes or so with 50 marines to 36, 1 tank to 0, 1/0 to 0/0, a third on the way, and even an SCV lead. Puma was massively "out-macroed", but it was more that Thorzain's build was much tighter and crisper. (And that Thorxain was better at building SCVs, apparently)
Are Thorzain's units clumping? Yes. Is that good? No (Puma has all his marines firing, some of Thorzain's are in the back). Does Thorzain have the whole army on one hotkey? Yes. Is that good? No (The medivacs don't heal when the marines move because they're on the same hotkey) Does it matter? Not really. Is Puma making macro mistakes? Yes, actually. Pause at 11:30, and you'll see him queuing up a bunch of marines unessicarily. He probably also missed and SCV or two, since he's behind on those. But none of those things matter because Thorzain's build is simply better in every way.
BW fans will look at that battle and say "Yeah, but the actual battle was so boring! Thorzain basically a-moved." And they'd be right! That was a fairly boring engagement. The question, the only question, is does it inherently have to be, or are players just getting away with bad micro because the other guy made an even worse mistake?
And a lot of games get won on either that, "you did a retarded move", or "I can drop three places and you can't defend three drops because you're a fucking professional and you still have your whole army on one hotkey Jesus Christ"
A lot of the reason SC2 fans are so exicted about BW players switching is because they believe that it'll accelerate the development of the game until that stops mattering, and then execution suddenly becomes the main thing, and then suddenly we'll see "real" SC2.
BW fans, of course, don't buy this. They feel SC2 is inherently inferior as a game, and no amount of skill can make up for that. Personally, I think it's somewhere in between, with the skill cap of SC2 being lower than BW, but by less than a lot of BW fans think.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat.
Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point.
Sorry but I'm going to grab and rant on this one.
Give it time, SC2 will die in its current state. I don't care how the game will develop, and I don't care what the skill cap is going to be. GomTV is still a minority channel (if its even considered a channel, they broadcast on borrowed timeslot from an anime channel) in Korea, and the players themselves are not making more money. What SC2 needs right now is the corporate sponsors, and bigger coverage of tournaments, as well as better production value and sets.
I don't care if BW took 11 years to become amazing. BW, as amazing it is, had a lucky start, but SC2 didn't have that. In fact, SC2 failed in Korea due to illegal advertising, funky price packages etc. Want an example? Couple of friends and I went to a PC Bang in Korea. We played few BW 2v2s and decided to play SC2. Turns out, two of us (including myself) do not have Korean passport, which meant we couldn't create Korean battle.net account (this has been solved with TW/KR server). The server merge solved the problem, yes, but that's not the point. SC2 had an awful kick start in Korea.
So unless something dramatic happens (ideal solution: GomTV and OGN both casts SC2 games, or some kind of Proleague that's casted on both "stations"), SC2 ain't getting big in Korea
Note: I've been talking about Korea, don't bring 'foreign scene' into the discussion.
I'm pretty sure the current Korean SC2 teams will die before the BW teams stop BW, either way. SC2 in Korea is in a ton of trouble.
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
Some day in the future when kespa move to SC2 And koreans stops watching esports because is boring and the whole community breaks down Blizzard will finally say: What have we done!! It was a terrible game xD
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid)
Well I am not sure whether your opinion's represent what guemchi really want's to say about going pro to sc2
Guemchi Playing Starcraft II does not satisfy his desire to play Starcraft - He misses fans cheering for him, and the feeling of winning together with his team mates.
I am just going to leave this here and let it speak for him self.
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid)
he lived with startale and called their practice schedule terrible. he also failed to qualify for GSL open 3. i think that counts as having switched for a fairly significant time.
GuemChi played for a short while but kind of failed in SC2. Only did one prelims and never made it out. I think he had like 3 wins in a smaller tournament under his name before calling it quits. Not sure if you can take that as a victory of a BW player switching back.
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid)
he lived with startale and called their practice schedule terrible. he also failed to qualify for GSL open 3. i think that counts as having switched for a fairly significant time.
Oh, he did switch. I guess I just never heard of him playing SC2. I am allowed to go "Pfft. BW is a game where Guemchi is good!"?
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
Guemchi Playing Starcraft II does not satisfy his desire to play Starcraft - He misses fans cheering for him, and the feeling of winning together with his team mates.
I am just going to leave this here and let it speak for him self.
Not that going from BW to late-2010 era (where 2-rax SCV all-in was standard TvZ) SC2 wasn't a fairly massive drop in the quality of the game, both because of any BW vs SC2 debates and because GSL 3 is considered the worst major SC2 tournament ever, but I still find "I tried SC2, but I missed winning" to be kind of funny.
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid)
he lived with startale and called their practice schedule terrible. he also failed to qualify for GSL open 3. i think that counts as having switched for a fairly significant time.
Oh, he did switch. I guess I just never heard of him playing SC2. I am allowed to go "Pfft. BW is a game where Guemchi is good!"?
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid)
Well I am not sure whether your opinion's represent what guemchi really want's to say about going pro to sc2
Guemchi Playing Starcraft II does not satisfy his desire to play Starcraft - He misses fans cheering for him, and the feeling of winning together with his team mates.
I am just going to leave this here and let it speak for him self.
Not that going from BW to late-2010 era (where 2-rax SCV all-in was standard TvZ) SC2 wasn't a fairly massive drop in the quality of the game, both because of any BW vs SC2 debates and because GSL 3 is considered the worst major SC2 tournament ever, but I still find "I tried SC2, but I missed winning" to be kind of funny.
Well let's just say it's funny for you , but it's kind of a personal thing , because he is the one making bucks from gaming at a pro level :3.
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid)
he lived with startale and called their practice schedule terrible. he also failed to qualify for GSL open 3. i think that counts as having switched for a fairly significant time.
Oh, he did switch. I guess I just never heard of him playing SC2. I am allowed to go "Pfft. BW is a game where Guemchi is good!"?
On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote: I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games Is that too much to ask ??
After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar .
No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back.
Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached.
I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid)
Well I am not sure whether your opinion's represent what guemchi really want's to say about going pro to sc2
Guemchi Playing Starcraft II does not satisfy his desire to play Starcraft - He misses fans cheering for him, and the feeling of winning together with his team mates.
I am just going to leave this here and let it speak for him self.
Not that going from BW to late-2010 era (where 2-rax SCV all-in was standard TvZ) SC2 wasn't a fairly massive drop in the quality of the game, both because of any BW vs SC2 debates and because GSL 3 is considered the worst major SC2 tournament ever, but I still find "I tried SC2, but I missed winning" to be kind of funny.
to be fair guemchi was only any "good" for one brief, shining period where he had 100% winrate (in one night)
but fuck yeah g-chizzle TTwTT looking forward to when stars plays him in PL again
On January 24 2012 15:40 Sawamura wrote: Well let's just say it's funny for you , but it's kind of a personal thing , because he is the one making bucks from gaming at a pro level :3.
Oh, absolutely. I don't blame him at all. To switch to the next big thing and discover A.) It's all rushes all the time because it's 2010 and you don't know that'll be patched later, and B.) You're expected to work for free. It's entirely understandable that his passion for starcraft included a passion for macro games and/or paychecks.
On January 24 2012 15:40 Sawamura wrote: Well let's just say it's funny for you , but it's kind of a personal thing , because he is the one making bucks from gaming at a pro level :3.
Oh, absolutely. I don't blame him at all. To switch to the next big thing and discover A.) It's all rushes all the time because it's 2010 and you don't know that'll be patched later, and B.) You're expected to work for free. It's entirely understandable that his passion for starcraft included a passion for macro games and/or paychecks.
The point is anything that makes Guemchi boat floats is good .
EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/dibujobkdq.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J0iBR.jpg/)
