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Kinda wish there was a slashdot style moderating system here so we could mark posts as flamebait. Just don't respond -_-
Anyway, as I said in the other thread, I don't think this is the right time to switch. And I'm not saying this because I think BW needs to stick around longer or anything. It's just that it's clear that SC2 in its current incarnation is not ready to be broadcast to all the faithful BW fans in Korea. I really think they should wait after HotS comes out. If OGN starts broadcasting SC2 right now, even if HotS turns out to be great, I'm sure droves of Korean viewers will have already lost interest. There's no guarantee that HotS will be great, but I just see transitioning now to be a lose/lose scenario.
Then there's all the other stuff talked about in the SC2 thread regarding the SC2 team stability and whatnot. I'm not that strongly attached to the SC2 teams, but I wouldn't mind giving them some more time and the foreign scene to stabilize more.
As for whether BW players will switch? Well, I suspect the majority of them will. Even if they dislike SC2, they're professional RTS gamers at heart, and they still want to earn a living playing RTS games competitively. Hell, IdrA hates SC2, yet he still plays it.
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Can't imagine the top tier BW pro's ever switching to SC2, but if they do I suppose then I'd watch more SC2 just to keep up with them, still don't see that ever happening. I've played SC2 since beta and am now getting into BW as far as playing but pro league has always been much more exciting to watch when compared to SC2 tournaments, it may be new and not developed but it just doesn't have that "spark" that BW has.
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On January 24 2012 15:42 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 15:37 Ribbon wrote:On January 24 2012 15:30 rauk wrote:On January 24 2012 15:26 Ribbon wrote:On January 24 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 15:18 Ribbon wrote:On January 24 2012 15:13 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote:
I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games
Is that too much to ask ?? After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar . No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back. Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached. Well except  GuemChi http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187242 I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid) he lived with startale and called their practice schedule terrible. he also failed to qualify for GSL open 3. i think that counts as having switched for a fairly significant time. Oh, he did switch. I guess I just never heard of him playing SC2. I am allowed to go "Pfft. BW is a game where Guemchi is good!"? On January 24 2012 15:29 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 15:26 Ribbon wrote:On January 24 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 15:18 Ribbon wrote:On January 24 2012 15:13 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 15:03 therockmanxx wrote:
I just want pretty much all sc2 players move back to b team and epic games
Is that too much to ask ?? After earning so much and having so much fame in sc2 , you think the converted bw players into sc2 bonjwa's will return to broodwar to go back to a b team ? . Not happening likely . Only few exceptions were Guemchi , in which he quitted sc2 and went back to broodwar because he doesn't feel the same way as he did when he was popular in broodwar . No one who switched to SC2 from BW is going back. Some of the people who started with SC2 (e.g. Creator) may switch to BW if poached. Well except GuemChi http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187242 I don't consider Guemchi to have switched. He considered it, and decided against it (perhaps after learning most SC2 players don't get paid) Well I am not sure whether your opinion's represent what guemchi really want's to say about going pro to sc2 Guemchi
Playing Starcraft II does not satisfy his desire to play Starcraft - He misses fans cheering for him, and the feeling of winning together with his team mates. I am just going to leave this here and let it speak for him self. Not that going from BW to late-2010 era (where 2-rax SCV all-in was standard TvZ) SC2 wasn't a fairly massive drop in the quality of the game, both because of any BW vs SC2 debates and because GSL 3 is considered the worst major SC2 tournament ever, but I still find "I tried SC2, but I missed winning" to be kind of funny. to be fair guemchi was only any "good" for one brief, shining period where he had 100% winrate (in one night) but fuck yeah g-chizzle TTwTT looking forward to when stars plays him in PL again
I ROFL'd IRL. All of these serious talk and you come bringing this here :D
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Nice. Get ready for more Flash walk outs.
Hopefully kespa plans to run sc2 seperate from BW
+ Show Spoiler +Do sc2 fans not realise that when they say "give it more time" they're essentially saying "our game sucks atm"
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On January 24 2012 20:11 TrainSamurai wrote:Nice. Get ready for more Flash walk outs. Hopefully kespa plans to run sc2 seperate from BW + Show Spoiler +Do sc2 fans not realise that when they say "give it more time" they're essentially saying "our game sucks atm"
That's the idea, things need time to grow and mature - why would SC2 be any different? Broodwar didn't start out super popular, it grew to be that popular.
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On January 24 2012 20:20 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 20:11 TrainSamurai wrote:Nice. Get ready for more Flash walk outs. Hopefully kespa plans to run sc2 seperate from BW + Show Spoiler +Do sc2 fans not realise that when they say "give it more time" they're essentially saying "our game sucks atm" That's the idea, things need time to grow and mature - why would SC2 be any different? Broodwar didn't start out super popular, it grew to be that popular.
Your better than this.
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On January 24 2012 20:20 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 20:11 TrainSamurai wrote:Nice. Get ready for more Flash walk outs. Hopefully kespa plans to run sc2 seperate from BW + Show Spoiler +Do sc2 fans not realise that when they say "give it more time" they're essentially saying "our game sucks atm" That's the idea, things need time to grow and mature - why would SC2 be any different? Broodwar didn't start out super popular, it grew to be that popular.
Popularity is the least of SC2's problems.
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excuse my misinterpretation
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Im a Starcraft II player and I wont lie, Brood War is a much better, harder, more rewarding and more exciting game, and beats Starcraft II in nearly every single aspect, besides graphics, and I want to play the game, but im afraid its a tad to tricky for me ><
So goodluck to you all for BroodWar, because I too like to watch BroodWar whenever it is on 
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I'd be extremely sad to see BW ending so early.
Isn't there supposed to be an OSL very soon ?
Are big sponsors like SKT, KT, STX, etc ready to inject the same amount of money (if not more) in a game that is less popular ? But it's true that KeSPA committee is made of representatives from the big sponsors, so if KeSPA is ok to switch, that means sponsors are ok too....
That would be the end of watching e-sports for me. I really tried hard to watch SC2, but it's just unwatchable 
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On January 24 2012 20:41 endy wrote:I'd be extremely sad to see BW ending so early. Isn't there supposed to be an OSL very soon ? Are big sponsors like SKT, KT, STX, etc ready to inject the same amount of money (if not more) in a game that is less popular ? But it's true that KeSPA committee is made of representatives from the big sponsors, so if KeSPA is ok to switch, that means sponsors are ok too.... That would be the end of watching e-sports for me. I really tried hard to watch SC2, but it's just unwatchable
This thread popped up about a month ago
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298203
So shouldn't be too far off according to that
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Does anyone know what the ratings were like for the SC2 WCG broadcasts? That's probably the best indication of how much kespa might think they can actually get out of a SC2 league.
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On January 24 2012 20:20 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 20:11 TrainSamurai wrote:Nice. Get ready for more Flash walk outs. Hopefully kespa plans to run sc2 seperate from BW + Show Spoiler +Do sc2 fans not realise that when they say "give it more time" they're essentially saying "our game sucks atm" That's the idea, things need time to grow and mature - why would SC2 be any different? Broodwar didn't start out super popular, it grew to be that popular.
And brood war had wacraft 2 as predecessor. See the connection? Blizzard had all their years to make this game, they had many years, and documentations, analyzies of gameplay done for them by community and the fact that something is not working or "give it time" is just a disgrace. No matter how you want to put it. Im actually looking at diablo 3 progress and i really cant help but to laugh, its so simmilar to sc - sc2, the "we want to make different game" attitude that in the end just circles around and goes back to the core of gameplay from it predeccesor. I just cant wait for "oh shit they were right" attitude to kick in.
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Do all of you realize that even with BW being the better game, an excellent strategy game, perfect for esports etc... It's so old that there are barely ANY "new" player who can start from scratch, train long enough (probably minimum 2 years), for X hours a day, while being a noname, to make a B-team when the scene is already waning ?
This is the problem with esports right now, and CS1.6 had the same one : people are so good at this difficult game, that no one can catch up, and without new players, there's no future. It is bound to die eventually, since new, young gamers are attracted to more flashy games. Difficulty, while being a blessing for the competitiveness of the game, is also it's plight. The scene grows older, older, older, and eventually people move on.
In board games or sport, you don't have this problem since there are no new ones available. And they are mainstream enough that you can learn them via clubs and so on right at school. People *know* the games and sports won't change, and can invest the necessary time to invest their life in it. Video games.... well maybe, but barely. Who right now would have the balls to invest the necessary time to become a pro at Starcraft 1, looking at the prospects of an already waning scene ? Probably only a handful, and it's not gonna be enough to keep the scene alive right now.
Understand this : I love BW as much as you do, I haven't found a better strategy game yet, but I still enjoy watching SC2, because some high quality games really deserve it. The unitball many people complain about, is the fault of the game engine, but also of the players, not taking the time and apm to micro properly. But this is gonna evolve, and they will only get better. Consider it as an obstacle to master, which actually raises the skill ceiling of the game !
I, for one, think it would be better to ultimately have the players I love switch to SC2 instead of just being out of a job in a few months/years. Then I could still love and follow them, their history, rivalries and weird moments :p
It could become a good game really, when the players actually take advantage of the easier mechanics to micro, spread, multiprong, flank... instead of being lazy with ze ball.
I should have detailed it more and make it into a blog, but I don't have enough time.
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1019 Posts
Why the SC2 community thinks that BW teams switching to SC2 is just a matter of time is beyond me. Why would kespa keep the move secret from all the current teams and then suddenly screw everyone by announcing the supposed switch this april?
And SC2 fans keep suggesting that their scene is going to become so much better when all the A-class players and TBLS switch over, which is hilarious. Do you really think that the current generation of players will just shift places to SC2 and keep everything from rivalries to relative skill levels the same? More importantly, wishing that BW players will switch over to make the SC2 scene better implies that your agreeing that SC2 is currently in a terrible form without any outstanding SC2 player to make it more exciting then stupid death balls rolling around onscreen.
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On January 24 2012 21:09 Nouar wrote:
Do all of you realize that even with BW being the better game, an excellent strategy game, perfect for esports etc... It's so old that there are barely ANY "new" player who can start from scratch, train long enough (probably minimum 2 years), for X hours a day, while being a noname, to make a B-team when the scene is already waning ?
This is the problem with esports right now, and CS1.6 had the same one : people are so good at this difficult game, that no one can catch up, and without new players, there's no future. It is bound to die eventually, since new, young gamers are attracted to more flashy games. Difficulty, while being a blessing for the competitiveness of the game, is also it's plight. The scene grows older, older, older, and eventually people move on.
In board games or sport, you don't have this problem since there are no new ones available. And they are mainstream enough that you can learn them via clubs and so on right at school. People *know* the games and sports won't change, and can invest the necessary time to invest their life in it. Video games.... well maybe, but barely. Who right now would have the balls to invest the necessary time to become a pro at Starcraft 1, looking at the prospects of an already waning scene ? Probably only a handful, and it's not gonna be enough to keep the scene alive right now.
Understand this : I love BW as much as you do, I haven't found a better strategy game yet, but I still enjoy watching SC2, because some high quality games really deserve it. The unitball many people complain about, is the fault of the game engine, but also of the players, not taking the time and apm to micro properly. But this is gonna evolve, and they will only get better. Consider it as an obstacle to master, which actually raises the skill ceiling of the game !
I, for one, think it would be better to ultimately have the players I love switch to SC2 instead of just being out of a job in a few months/years. Then I could still love and follow them, their history, rivalries and weird moments :p
It could become a good game really, when the players actually take advantage of the easier mechanics to micro, spread, multiprong, flank... instead of being lazy with ze ball.
I should have detailed it more and make it into a blog, but I don't have enough time.
Agree 100%, by far BW is better to watch and definietly has its spark that keep me playing it but i can enjoy watching SC2 just as much
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Do all of you realize that even with BW being the better game, an excellent strategy game, perfect for esports etc... It's so old that there are barely ANY "new" player who can start from scratch, train long enough (probably minimum 2 years), for X hours a day, while being a noname, to make a B-team when the scene is already waning ?
Nothing is going to stop young aspiring korean players who wants to be the next bisu ,flash and jaedong . In fact just take a look at the young aspiring rookies that are owning up the broodwar scene right now take for example Bogus,Last,Wooki,Shy ,Dear,Alone Neo G Soulkey . The future is quite bright in my opinion for broodwar and if what SNM said in it's blog that starcraft is a culture which people will still keep playing for years to come than my faith that the bw scene will be receiving new blood will always be there .
This is the problem with esports right now, and CS1.6 had the same one : people are so good at this difficult game, that no one can catch up, and without new players, there's no future. It is bound to die eventually, since new, young gamers are attracted to more flashy games. Difficulty, while being a blessing for the competitiveness of the game, is also it's plight. The scene grows older, older, older, and eventually people move on.
Well let's take this fact to the test , the current market has a lot of experience players who run the scene and you are just a fresh graduate from university , despite knowing the fact you wouldn't stand a chance competing this already experience players in the field is that going to stop you from exploring and becoming more experience your self to reach the goal you want to be ? . My point is , playing what games you like pretty subjective and if young korean players want to commit themselves to become a pro gamer , no one is stopping them in fact courage tournament is always waiting for them with open arm's .
In board games or sport, you don't have this problem since there are no new ones available. And they are mainstream enough that you can learn them via clubs and so on right at school. People *know* the games and sports won't change, and can invest the necessary time to invest their life in it. Video games.... well maybe, but barely. Who right now would have the balls to invest the necessary time to become a pro at Starcraft 1, looking at the prospects of an already waning scene ? Probably only a handful, and it's not gonna be enough to keep the scene alive right now.
Broodwar is mainstream in korea , even kids were playing this in primary schools and they don't need to dedicate countless hour's to play the game after all it's a great past time for kids to be playing broodwar and if they decide to go pro . Whose stopping these kids from doing so ? .
Understand this : I love BW as much as you do, I haven't found a better strategy game yet, but I still enjoy watching SC2, because some high quality games really deserve it. The unitball many people complain about, is the fault of the game engine, but also of the players, not taking the time and apm to micro properly. But this is gonna evolve, and they will only get better. Consider it as an obstacle to master, which actually raises the skill ceiling of the game !
I disagree with this statement you say you haven't found a better strategy and yet you prefer watching sc2 . Let's just say sc2 has become the burning passion for you now and for me even after trying out sc2 , my preferred competitive video game is still broodwar . Well you are hoping for sc2 to evolve , but it ain't happening because blizzard will keep feeding PR statements saying , oh we will be putting in LAN soon just you wait for the next expansion , Fast forward and blizzard will keep saying yes we will the units spread out more for you in Sc3 . Please support us . So nope , no thank you , Everything that I have wanted is already in brood war.
I, for one, think it would be better to ultimately have the players I love switch to SC2 instead of just being out of a job in a few months/years. Then I could still love and follow them, their history, rivalries and weird moments :p
It could become a good game really, when the players actually take advantage of the easier mechanics to micro, spread, multiprong, flank... instead of being lazy with ze ball.
Well the decision to move or stay is up to the players as a fan I will support where they go and although if they go instead to sc2 , I will tip of my hat and wish them good luck in their journeys because despite them playing a game with the same name "starcraft " that is . The game is so different , on a personal level , I didn't like the way the game feels and most of my gripes are with the way the game look itself . Although that is probably me because I prefer more simple graphics rather than explosive eye candy in my face action all the time . Of course if most of the team do switch to sc2 even if it's KT , I will definitely drop by to catch up how my bonjwa's are doing , but don't expect me to be supporting them the way I did for broodwar .
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So, i put this up to try to quell alot of the fears some BW fans have been having lately, as all evidence is pointing to KeSPA handling sc2 as a supplement to BW instead of a successor. As a fan of both games i thought i'd make sure to share the info about BW in the interview with you guys so you don't have to try to find it in the sc2 section that you don't care about (some of you).
and guys honestly, none of you need to worry about the top BW players switching. we all know that at least fantasy will remain for years after everyone else would have switched(if they ever do lol)
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
SC2 in proleague fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Please noooo.
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On January 24 2012 22:12 PrinceXizor wrote:So, i put this up to try to quell alot of the fears some BW fans have been having lately, as all evidence is pointing to KeSPA handling sc2 as a supplement to BW instead of a successor. As a fan of both games i thought i'd make sure to share the info about BW in the interview with you guys so you don't have to try to find it in the sc2 section that you don't care about (some of you). and guys honestly, none of you need to worry about the top BW players switching. we all know that at least fantasy will remain for years after everyone else would have switched(if they ever do lol)
Let's just say I appreciate the fact that you made this thread and a really informative one ,as for some of us are just loggerheads who swear not to enter in to the sc2 section because it will be blasphemy .Although I think it's a great ignorance to avoid what's happening over the side of the fence and that's just another story . Thanks again .
On January 24 2012 22:21 _Quasar_ wrote:
SC2 in proleague fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Please noooo.
Aghh First blood ,Quasar it hasn't happen yet ,why the doom cries ? Also according to the article are pointing that sc2 and Bw , will have each separate division rather than a combine one .
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EPT
