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On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point.
I was going to save my 3000 posts for something meaningful and memorial but I just need to repudiate this.
Even to this day, when I opened up Nevake's YouTube account, I still get mesmerized by BoxeR's marine control against Zergs. Those movements, stimpack utilized to the highest efficiency still get my jaw dropped drooling on the table. I can really say that only the top Terrans possess the tenacity of BoxeR's flawless micromanagement. Brood War's gameplay have captured my interest since the dawn of its release and SC2 haven't even impressed me 50% of what Brood War offered.
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Yes BW is likely at an end as KeSPA teams transition later on this year.
A bit of a shame to some of us, but the new generation of kids will appreciate it. We'll always have vods.
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On January 24 2012 12:25 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:20 gngfn wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Mods, please make "give it time" bannable We gave sc2 ten's year of time to develop it self in to the ultimate "E-Sports" game like DB and friends have been preaching , I mean I still recall them saying the editor " Can Do ANYTHING " . Well if it can do anything than un clump the units and not make it into the ball when you right click a control group of units to the destination you ordered them to go.
mind you, what is the exact problem with units clumping up? i mean it's easy enough to unclump and spread, while you still have the option of clumping.
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On January 24 2012 12:29 Soyuz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:25 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 12:20 gngfn wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Mods, please make "give it time" bannable We gave sc2 ten's year of time to develop it self in to the ultimate "E-Sports" game like DB and friends have been preaching , I mean I still recall them saying the editor " Can Do ANYTHING " . Well if it can do anything than un clump the units and not make it into the ball when you right click a control group of units to the destination you ordered them to go. mind you, what is the exact problem with units clumping up? i mean it's easy enough to unclump and spread, while you still have the option of clumping.
Well let's just say I prefer my unit's to be more spread out than I am in a ball formation ?
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Clumping units for me makes it hard to distinguish what exactly is going on. Also if it is indeed easy to spread units, then why do I still see big ball merging each other for every game of sc2
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On January 24 2012 12:31 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:29 Soyuz wrote:On January 24 2012 12:25 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 12:20 gngfn wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Mods, please make "give it time" bannable We gave sc2 ten's year of time to develop it self in to the ultimate "E-Sports" game like DB and friends have been preaching , I mean I still recall them saying the editor " Can Do ANYTHING " . Well if it can do anything than un clump the units and not make it into the ball when you right click a control group of units to the destination you ordered them to go. mind you, what is the exact problem with units clumping up? i mean it's easy enough to unclump and spread, while you still have the option of clumping. Well let's just say I prefer my unit's to be more spread out than I am in a ball formation ?
Is that a specific reason for that? or is it just a preference? I mean it's not that difficult to continue spreading and unclumping as you move in sc2, and clumping has its uses.
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On January 24 2012 12:33 jidolboy wrote:
Clumping units for me makes it hard to distinguish what exactly is going on. Also if it is indeed easy to spread units, then why do I still see big ball merging each other for every game of sc2
but in the engagements they are rarely clumped (unless of course one side was caught without warning), at least in the korean matches
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On January 24 2012 12:34 Soyuz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:31 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 12:29 Soyuz wrote:On January 24 2012 12:25 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 12:20 gngfn wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Mods, please make "give it time" bannable We gave sc2 ten's year of time to develop it self in to the ultimate "E-Sports" game like DB and friends have been preaching , I mean I still recall them saying the editor " Can Do ANYTHING " . Well if it can do anything than un clump the units and not make it into the ball when you right click a control group of units to the destination you ordered them to go. mind you, what is the exact problem with units clumping up? i mean it's easy enough to unclump and spread, while you still have the option of clumping. Well let's just say I prefer my unit's to be more spread out than I am in a ball formation ? Is that a specific reason for that? or is it just a preference? I mean it's not that difficult to continue spreading and unclumping as you move in sc2, and clumping has its uses.
Both I don't like watching ball vs ball in a late game , I am so freaking used to bw spread out line of dragoons and units , they don't have sticky glue on each of them selves when they go into the battle . Which as a spectator looks really clumsy , second I never liked the idea that from a military perspective each of this games looks like we have been driven back to Napoleon style of warfare , where each commanders will march each of their troops to form some sort of line and attack in that manner which is what I have been seeing in sc2 lately .
Third having spread out unit's give the player the ability to maximised the use of their army and in this case Siege tank line's , having front siege tank take the soak of the damage while enemy unit's try to break them and the behind one support them .
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On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point.
Sorry but I'm going to grab and rant on this one.
Give it time, SC2 will die in its current state. I don't care how the game will develop, and I don't care what the skill cap is going to be. GomTV is still a minority channel (if its even considered a channel, they broadcast on borrowed timeslot from an anime channel) in Korea, and the players themselves are not making more money. What SC2 needs right now is the corporate sponsors, and bigger coverage of tournaments, as well as better production value and sets.
I don't care if BW took 11 years to become amazing. BW, as amazing it is, had a lucky start, but SC2 didn't have that. In fact, SC2 failed in Korea due to illegal advertising, funky price packages etc. Want an example? Couple of friends and I went to a PC Bang in Korea. We played few BW 2v2s and decided to play SC2. Turns out, two of us (including myself) do not have Korean passport, which meant we couldn't create Korean battle.net account (this has been solved with TW/KR server). The server merge solved the problem, yes, but that's not the point. SC2 had an awful kick start in Korea.
So unless something dramatic happens (ideal solution: GomTV and OGN both casts SC2 games, or some kind of Proleague that's casted on both "stations"), SC2 ain't getting big in Korea
Note: I've been talking about Korea, don't bring 'foreign scene' into the discussion.
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On January 24 2012 12:25 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:20 gngfn wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Mods, please make "give it time" bannable We gave sc2 ten's year of time to develop it self in to the ultimate "E-Sports" game like DB and friends have been preaching , I mean I still recall them saying the editor " Can Do ANYTHING " . Well if it can do anything than un clump the units and not make it into the ball when you right click a control group of units to the destination you ordered them to go.
I dont really see the point of harping on about this in every post that mildy relates to sc2.
It's a different engine, it's not about the editor. We've seen people do a lot of amazing things with the editor. sc2 uses the swarm AI, whereas bw uses a-star. The editor (probably)allows you to script stuff, not change core engine bits, for which you you'd have to create a whole new build.
It seems like you pulled a sentence out of a random promo video and are using it to bash the game, I do agree that clumping sucks when compared to bw late game battles, but blaming the editor for it is not right.
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On January 24 2012 12:29 Soyuz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:25 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 12:20 gngfn wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Mods, please make "give it time" bannable We gave sc2 ten's year of time to develop it self in to the ultimate "E-Sports" game like DB and friends have been preaching , I mean I still recall them saying the editor " Can Do ANYTHING " . Well if it can do anything than un clump the units and not make it into the ball when you right click a control group of units to the destination you ordered them to go. mind you, what is the exact problem with units clumping up? i mean it's easy enough to unclump and spread, while you still have the option of clumping.
It is not so much that I have a bone to pick against unit clumping of SC2, it more of agonizing over the 'feel' of it. Call me nostalgic but if you have ever attempt to play Brood War, you would immediately notice the dark atmosphere that it offers, that creep sound from Zerg, burst noise from the Terran's fire and Protoss's death animation. You can really feel the blood splastering everywhere especially with the music. Now SC2 made the game....toy-like, everything is very much surgically replaced with plastics and unnessary shininess that distracted from the gameplay. I can't really distinguish the placement of my units in that death ball as the background restricted it. In BW, I can tell where my units are, one lurker there, defilers there. In SC2, its just a blob of color.
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On January 24 2012 12:41 dartoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:25 Sawamura wrote:On January 24 2012 12:20 gngfn wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Mods, please make "give it time" bannable We gave sc2 ten's year of time to develop it self in to the ultimate "E-Sports" game like DB and friends have been preaching , I mean I still recall them saying the editor " Can Do ANYTHING " . Well if it can do anything than un clump the units and not make it into the ball when you right click a control group of units to the destination you ordered them to go. I dont really see the point of harping on about this in every post that mildy relates to sc2. It's a different engine, it's not about the editor. We've seen people do a lot of amazing things with the editor. sc2 uses the swarm AI, whereas bw uses a-star. The editor (probably)allows you to script stuff, not change core engine bits, for which you you'd have to create a whole new build. It seems like you pulled a sentence out of a random promo video and are using it to bash the game,
If sc2 is what they promoted it to be which can do "ANYTHING " , as a consumer It is my damn right to have that "ANYTHING" full filled in my opinion .
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On January 24 2012 12:20 gngfn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Mods, please make "give it time" bannable
Oh my god, this. When BW came out the RTS genre and indeed even the entire video gaming industry was still in its infancy. No one even knew how to play RTS. The BW scene grew from scratch for over a decade before it became what it is today. When SC2 came out we already have ~10 years of professional BW as a foundation to help play, design and balance the game. Expecting SC2 to be only as good as BW was in 2000 is just stupid. SC2 needs to be as good as BW is NOW. Otherwise can you blame BW fans for not caring?
Just look at WC3. This is a game that has had a professional scene for almost a decade itself, and yet Blizzard still hasn't (and I doubt they ever will) made it balanced.
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This thread should just be closed. this is just another "why sc2 sucks" thread in the bw section that bw players don't even care about other then to trash it.
Honestly I wish both could live side by side but just doesn't look like it but I hope there is at minimum 1 more year of OSL that Jaedong gets out of his crappyish play and dominates :D.
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On January 24 2012 12:55 blade55555 wrote:
This thread should just be closed. this is just another "why sc2 sucks" thread in the bw section that bw players don't even care about other then to trash it.
Honestly I wish both could live side by side but just doesn't look like it but I hope there is at minimum 1 more year of MSL that Jaedong gets out of his crappyish play and dominates :D.
Seriously bro? I advise you to read ( if you can ) that says Farewell MBCGame on the side where it is clearly visible.
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On January 24 2012 12:40 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Sorry but I'm going to grab and rant on this one. Give it time, SC2 will die in its current state. I don't care how the game will develop, and I don't care what the skill cap is going to be. GomTV is still a minority channel (if its even considered a channel, they broadcast on borrowed timeslot from an anime channel) in Korea, and the players themselves are not making more money. What SC2 needs right now is the corporate sponsors, and bigger coverage of tournaments, as well as better production value and sets. I don't care if BW took 11 years to become amazing. BW, as amazing it is, had a lucky start, but SC2 didn't have that. In fact, SC2 failed in Korea due to illegal advertising, funky price packages etc. Want an example? Couple of friends and I went to a PC Bang in Korea. We played few BW 2v2s and decided to play SC2. Turns out, two of us (including myself) do not have Korean passport, which meant we couldn't create Korean battle.net account (this has been solved with TW/KR server). The server merge solved the problem, yes, but that's not the point. SC2 had an awful kick start in Korea. So unless something dramatic happens (ideal solution: GomTV and OGN both casts SC2 games, or some kind of Proleague that's casted on both "stations"), SC2 ain't getting big in Korea Note: I've been talking about Korea, don't bring 'foreign scene' into the discussion.
I think you sort of forgot what you were arguing about a sentence into your first paragraph.
What the above were arguing about was not whether or not the Korean scene would be great in 11 years, but whether or not the actual game would become great in 11 years. What you were ranting about is how the SC2 SCENE will die out in Korea in it's current state.
EDIT:
Oh, I just read "I don't care how the game will develop," so now I ask: Why did you even respond to him?
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I already lost hope on sc2 with dustin browder and david kim designing this game, the only way to save sc2 is to fire them.
they want to balance bronze league and grandmaster at the same time and that is retarded, they should balance everything about grandmasters and then release a newbie mod or ladder or whatever for lower leagues if they care so much.
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On January 24 2012 12:58 reDicE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:40 supernovamaniac wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Sorry but I'm going to grab and rant on this one. Give it time, SC2 will die in its current state. I don't care how the game will develop, and I don't care what the skill cap is going to be. GomTV is still a minority channel (if its even considered a channel, they broadcast on borrowed timeslot from an anime channel) in Korea, and the players themselves are not making more money. What SC2 needs right now is the corporate sponsors, and bigger coverage of tournaments, as well as better production value and sets. I don't care if BW took 11 years to become amazing. BW, as amazing it is, had a lucky start, but SC2 didn't have that. In fact, SC2 failed in Korea due to illegal advertising, funky price packages etc. Want an example? Couple of friends and I went to a PC Bang in Korea. We played few BW 2v2s and decided to play SC2. Turns out, two of us (including myself) do not have Korean passport, which meant we couldn't create Korean battle.net account (this has been solved with TW/KR server). The server merge solved the problem, yes, but that's not the point. SC2 had an awful kick start in Korea. So unless something dramatic happens (ideal solution: GomTV and OGN both casts SC2 games, or some kind of Proleague that's casted on both "stations"), SC2 ain't getting big in Korea Note: I've been talking about Korea, don't bring 'foreign scene' into the discussion. I think you sort of forgot what you were arguing about a sentence into your first paragraph. What the above were arguing about was not whether or not the Korean scene would be great in 11 years, but whether or not the actual game would become great in 11 years. What you were ranting about is how the SC2 SCENE will die out in Korea in it's current state. EDIT: Oh, I just read "I don't care how the game will develop," so now I ask: Why did you even respond to him?
Because I really don't care how the game will develop, whether it be amazing or horrible, in next 10 years. In reality, there won't be any development in SC2 unless something dramatic happens. What happens after the dramatic change (whether it be KeSPA-GomTV agreement or something) is something that I'll consider when it actually happens. "Giving it time" is not the answer; at the current state SC2 is only going to stay small in Korea.
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On January 24 2012 11:22 dmnum wrote:BW is a good looking game, but it's like comparing a woman when she's 20 and when she's 35. The 20 year old looks better than the 35 year old, and most people will go for the former only because of that. But ultimately the 35 year old is better in bed because she has experience.
I would say SC2 looks like a 20 year old with too much make-up on. She looks ridiculous, but most are going after her either way because she's considered desirable for some strange reason. BW on the other hand looks like a sophisticated 35 year old. A bit aged but still very beautiful. SC2 is a graphic nightmare for someone who tends to look at the details. Units move as clumps, and because of the unit graphical design and lighting, it's hard to distinguish them beyond that. It's extremely hard to distinguish different unit types from eachother. It really surprises me how little criticism have been directed at the SC2 graphics. Everybody complains about bland units and easy mechanics, but for me the biggest thing turn off with SC2 was the graphics. I just can't see what goes on in the battles, other than who's winning.
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On January 24 2012 13:02 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 12:58 reDicE wrote:On January 24 2012 12:40 supernovamaniac wrote:On January 24 2012 12:17 Xeteh wrote:On January 24 2012 11:28 Caladbolg wrote:
Sigh.
No LAN? Right... and you wanted to be taken seriously as an e-Sport?
Clumped units?
Magic casting?
Small maps?
No defender's advantage?
I could deal with MBS and unlimited unit selection (because the latter simply means the inferior players can move around their army a little better - but you still have to use all the hotkeys if you want to engage properly), but the rest? Ugh.
As much as I like playing SC2, and like watching SC2, to see my BW heroes play that game would be the death of me. Hope no one above the level of MVP/ForGG/Hyun switches right off the bat. Give it time, BW has had 11 years to turn in to an amazing game. Give SC2 the time it needs. I honestly believe it'll get there at some point. Sorry but I'm going to grab and rant on this one. Give it time, SC2 will die in its current state. I don't care how the game will develop, and I don't care what the skill cap is going to be. GomTV is still a minority channel (if its even considered a channel, they broadcast on borrowed timeslot from an anime channel) in Korea, and the players themselves are not making more money. What SC2 needs right now is the corporate sponsors, and bigger coverage of tournaments, as well as better production value and sets. I don't care if BW took 11 years to become amazing. BW, as amazing it is, had a lucky start, but SC2 didn't have that. In fact, SC2 failed in Korea due to illegal advertising, funky price packages etc. Want an example? Couple of friends and I went to a PC Bang in Korea. We played few BW 2v2s and decided to play SC2. Turns out, two of us (including myself) do not have Korean passport, which meant we couldn't create Korean battle.net account (this has been solved with TW/KR server). The server merge solved the problem, yes, but that's not the point. SC2 had an awful kick start in Korea. So unless something dramatic happens (ideal solution: GomTV and OGN both casts SC2 games, or some kind of Proleague that's casted on both "stations"), SC2 ain't getting big in Korea Note: I've been talking about Korea, don't bring 'foreign scene' into the discussion. I think you sort of forgot what you were arguing about a sentence into your first paragraph. What the above were arguing about was not whether or not the Korean scene would be great in 11 years, but whether or not the actual game would become great in 11 years. What you were ranting about is how the SC2 SCENE will die out in Korea in it's current state. EDIT: Oh, I just read "I don't care how the game will develop," so now I ask: Why did you even respond to him? Because I really don't care how the game will develop, whether it be amazing or horrible, in next 10 years. In reality, there won't be any development in SC2 unless something dramatic happens. What happens after the dramatic change (whether it be KeSPA-GomTV agreement or something) is something that I'll consider when it actually happens. "Giving it time" is not the answer; at the current state SC2 is only going to stay small in Korea.
"Because I really don't care how the game will develop, whether it be amazing or horrible, in next 10 years." Again, why respond when we're talking about whether or not the game will become great if you don't care?
"In reality, there won't be any development in SC2 unless something dramatic happens" Actually, in the 2 years sc2 has been out, it has developed a TON. Again, we're not talking about the Korean scene developing, but the actual game.
Also, even if SC2 dies in Korea, I believe the foreign scene will continue to develop the game.
EDIT: Updated with your edited post.
" at the current state SC2 is only going to stay small in Korea." Once again, you miss the point of their posts.
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EPT
