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On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional.
Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head.
What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around.
Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try.
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On January 11 2012 16:11 Khelen wrote:maybe you should have read the entire post... or skipped to the TL:DR that I was nice enough to include for the literacy challenged.
What page is your tl;dr buried in?
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Well deserved, too bad he ruined his own life.
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On January 11 2012 15:58 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. I just think that the world is better off without dipshits like the bully. If we could have made him just not exist in the first place, of course I would choose that option. If we could have made him truly learn a lesson without dying, thats even better. If the only option is to let him get a slap on the wrist or have him killed off, I'll gladly wish for his death. If one douchebag dying as a result of his own cruel activities allows kids to not be tormented by him in the future, of course I'll be glad that he's dead. This is of course assuming that he is as big of an asshole as we imagine him to be, and that there is no other option to stop his victims from being bullied. Go ahead and call me a sick person. I will readily admit that I like seeing bad people suffer from their own cruelty and narcissism
They are like 14. Kids do stupid shit. People grow up too. All these white kids that used to start shit with me when i was in elementary/middle school became friends in high school. Its just a phase. I mean, of course its pretty shitty for the ones being bullied when taken to the extreme. People just have to grow some balls and deal with it. Just try to ignore it. Fight them. Tell the authorities. Make some freaking friends to back you up. Stabbing the kid to death is not the right way lol...
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On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try.
Do you break down and cry everytime a rapist is sent to prison to, because it will make his life less fun? Thank god people like you are not in charge of our criminal justice system: we'd be too soft-hearted to punish anyone, because boo-hoo it's so sad and we gotta empathize with how it makes them feel.
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On January 11 2012 16:14 gameguard wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 15:58 Supamang wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. I just think that the world is better off without dipshits like the bully. If we could have made him just not exist in the first place, of course I would choose that option. If we could have made him truly learn a lesson without dying, thats even better. If the only option is to let him get a slap on the wrist or have him killed off, I'll gladly wish for his death. If one douchebag dying as a result of his own cruel activities allows kids to not be tormented by him in the future, of course I'll be glad that he's dead. This is of course assuming that he is as big of an asshole as we imagine him to be, and that there is no other option to stop his victims from being bullied. Go ahead and call me a sick person. I will readily admit that I like seeing bad people suffer from their own cruelty and narcissism They are like 14. Kids do stupid shit. People grow up too. All these white kids that used to start shit with me when i was in elementary/middle school became friends in high school. Its just a phase. I mean, of course its pretty shitty for the ones being bullied when taken to the extreme. People just have to grow some balls and deal with it. Just try to ignore it. Fight them. Tell the authorities. Make some freaking friends to back you up. Stabbing the kid to death is not the right way lol...
Way to completely blame the victim. Bullying is okay because "kids do stupid shit," he should follow an elaborate series of steps to deal with being attacked instead of taking the most instant and easy step. Why is the burden on the victim of bullying to follow the rules when the bully gets to do whatever he wants? How about if you don't want to get stabbed you don't bully and jump someone? Bully and his family just learned that lesson. No tears shed here.
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Maybe everyone is looking at this case entirely wrong. As it was pointed out before the incident in question was no longer typical bullying (which can be verbal etc). Instead this boy was forced to deal with premeditated assault by 1 or more antagonists. The judge in Florida decided it was an ASSAULT with intent to cause harm and therefore the victim is entitled to defend themself accordingly.
If the bully was 20 instead of 15 I doubt anyone would care at all about his fate, seems like the term bullying might just be muddying the waters.
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On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try.
Hmm, interesting post for sure. I don't disagree with everything your saying, I think some of what your saying is right and even intelligent. What I definitely disagree with is you saying, "being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever." Nuno wasn't stabbed for no reason at all, he was stabbed because he harassed, attacked, and tormented another child for over a YEAR. He did this for no reason, he knew he was making this kid miserable he knew what he was doing and he paid for it. I would never celebrate the death of a child and I feel terrible for Nuno's family, but if Nuno is going to torment and potentially scar another kid for life for nothing but kicks I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy at all for his death, as cold as that may make me to you.
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On January 11 2012 16:25 Air4013 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Hmm, interesting post for sure. I don't disagree with everything your saying, I think some of what your saying is right and even intelligent. What I definitely disagree with is you saying, "being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever." Nuno wasn't stabbed for no reason at all, he was stabbed because he harassed, attacked, and tormented another child for over a YEAR. He did this for no reason, he knew he was making this kid miserable he knew what he was doing and he paid for it. I would never celebrate the death of a child and I feel terrible for Nuno's family, but if Nuno is going to torment and potentially scar another kid for life for nothing but kicks I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy at all for his death, as cold as that may make me to you.
I did not intend to imply that Nuno was stabbed for no reason. I wanted to say that a young person being killed for any reason is nevertheless tragic, even if their own poor decisions led them to it. I'm not saying that he didn't deserve to be punished, even punished severely. I'm just saying that his death was a terrible outcome.
A life cut short is an occasion for sadness and introspection, not joy.
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On January 11 2012 16:15 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Do you break down and cry everytime a rapist is sent to prison to, because it will make his life less fun? Thank god people like you are not in charge of our criminal justice system: we'd be too soft-hearted to punish anyone, because boo-hoo it's so sad and we gotta empathize with how it makes them feel.
Of course I break down and cry every time a rapist goes to prison. It's so analogous to this situation, why wouldn't I?
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On January 11 2012 16:32 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:15 cz wrote:On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Do you break down and cry everytime a rapist is sent to prison to, because it will make his life less fun? Thank god people like you are not in charge of our criminal justice system: we'd be too soft-hearted to punish anyone, because boo-hoo it's so sad and we gotta empathize with how it makes them feel. Of course I break down and cry every time a rapist goes to prison. It's so analogous to this situation, why wouldn't I?
It is. Bad thing happens to bad person as a result of a bad act. Crime and punishment. Apparently too sad an idea for you to deal with.
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On January 11 2012 16:25 Air4013 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Hmm, interesting post for sure. I don't disagree with everything your saying, I think some of what your saying is right and even intelligent. What I definitely disagree with is you saying, "being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever." Nuno wasn't stabbed for no reason at all, he was stabbed because he harassed, attacked, and tormented another child for over a YEAR. He did this for no reason, he knew he was making this kid miserable he knew what he was doing and he paid for it. I would never celebrate the death of a child and I feel terrible for Nuno's family, but if Nuno is going to torment and potentially scar another kid for life for nothing but kicks I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy at all for his death, as cold as that may make me to you.
now im just making wild conjecture here, but could it be possible that the bully himself was experiencing issues? of course that doesn't excuse him taking it out on this poor kid, but it certainly gives reason to what he is doing. a lot of bullies do what they do because of trouble at home. this happens so often that its pretty much the cliche backstory to any bully. either that or the bully is mentally disturbed sociopath. still either way I do feel sympathy for him and wonder what his backstory is.
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I say good for him, defending himself. I don't think this was the end result the kid, or anybody else for that matter, expected, though....
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On January 11 2012 16:14 gameguard wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 15:58 Supamang wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. I just think that the world is better off without dipshits like the bully. If we could have made him just not exist in the first place, of course I would choose that option. If we could have made him truly learn a lesson without dying, thats even better. If the only option is to let him get a slap on the wrist or have him killed off, I'll gladly wish for his death. If one douchebag dying as a result of his own cruel activities allows kids to not be tormented by him in the future, of course I'll be glad that he's dead. This is of course assuming that he is as big of an asshole as we imagine him to be, and that there is no other option to stop his victims from being bullied. Go ahead and call me a sick person. I will readily admit that I like seeing bad people suffer from their own cruelty and narcissism They are like 14. Kids do stupid shit. People grow up too. All these white kids that used to start shit with me when i was in elementary/middle school became friends in high school. Its just a phase. I mean, of course its pretty shitty for the ones being bullied when taken to the extreme. People just have to grow some balls and deal with it. Just try to ignore it. Fight them. Tell the authorities. Make some freaking friends to back you up. Stabbing the kid to death is not the right way lol...
3 days away from turning 17 =! 14
The victim was 14. The bully was 3 days from turning 17.
On January 11 2012 16:34 fuzzy_panda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:25 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Hmm, interesting post for sure. I don't disagree with everything your saying, I think some of what your saying is right and even intelligent. What I definitely disagree with is you saying, "being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever." Nuno wasn't stabbed for no reason at all, he was stabbed because he harassed, attacked, and tormented another child for over a YEAR. He did this for no reason, he knew he was making this kid miserable he knew what he was doing and he paid for it. I would never celebrate the death of a child and I feel terrible for Nuno's family, but if Nuno is going to torment and potentially scar another kid for life for nothing but kicks I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy at all for his death, as cold as that may make me to you. now im just making wild conjecture here, but could it be possible that the bully himself was experiencing issues? of course that doesn't excuse him taking it out on this poor kid, but it certainly gives reason to what he is doing. a lot of bullies do what they do because of trouble at home. this happens so often that its pretty much the cliche backstory to any bully. either that or the bully is mentally disturbed sociopath. still either way I do feel sympathy for him and wonder what his backstory is.
A lot of people bully because they think it's funny. A majority of the people I've seen being dicks are dicks because they like the feeling of power, and from what I'm aware, no, they didn't seem to have any issues at home. This bully was super popular in school, and generally well liked, I don't see how you could use that as a potential argument. It's nothing really more than a "what if". Why make the extrapolations?
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On January 11 2012 16:30 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:25 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Hmm, interesting post for sure. I don't disagree with everything your saying, I think some of what your saying is right and even intelligent. What I definitely disagree with is you saying, "being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever." Nuno wasn't stabbed for no reason at all, he was stabbed because he harassed, attacked, and tormented another child for over a YEAR. He did this for no reason, he knew he was making this kid miserable he knew what he was doing and he paid for it. I would never celebrate the death of a child and I feel terrible for Nuno's family, but if Nuno is going to torment and potentially scar another kid for life for nothing but kicks I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy at all for his death, as cold as that may make me to you. I did not intend to imply that Nuno was stabbed for no reason. I wanted to say that a young person being killed for any reason is nevertheless tragic, even if their own poor decisions led them to it. I'm not saying that he didn't deserve to be punished, even punished severely. I'm just saying that his death was a terrible outcome. A life cut short is an occasion for sadness and introspection, not joy.
Well that is something we can agree on, a death of a child is always unbelievably tragic I couldn't agree more on this. I personally can't bring myself to feel sad about Nuno's death, he bullied and attacked Saavedra for over a year and I can't bring myself to mourn someone who could do such a thing with no remorse.
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On January 11 2012 16:33 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:32 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:15 cz wrote:On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Do you break down and cry everytime a rapist is sent to prison to, because it will make his life less fun? Thank god people like you are not in charge of our criminal justice system: we'd be too soft-hearted to punish anyone, because boo-hoo it's so sad and we gotta empathize with how it makes them feel. Of course I break down and cry every time a rapist goes to prison. It's so analogous to this situation, why wouldn't I? It is. Bad thing happens to bad person as a result of a bad act. Crime and punishment. Apparently too sad an idea for you to deal with.
What can I say? Your logic is impeccable. I have nothing to add as I am too busy being sad at the moment.
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On January 11 2012 16:37 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:33 cz wrote:On January 11 2012 16:32 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:15 cz wrote:On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:
[quote]
Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it."
You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Do you break down and cry everytime a rapist is sent to prison to, because it will make his life less fun? Thank god people like you are not in charge of our criminal justice system: we'd be too soft-hearted to punish anyone, because boo-hoo it's so sad and we gotta empathize with how it makes them feel. Of course I break down and cry every time a rapist goes to prison. It's so analogous to this situation, why wouldn't I? It is. Bad thing happens to bad person as a result of a bad act. Crime and punishment. Apparently too sad an idea for you to deal with. What can I say? Your logic is impeccable. I have nothing to add as I am too busy being sad at the moment.
Good. Don't forget to keep up your write-in campaign to have a September 11 moment-of-silence to remember the lives of the hijackers, because we should feel sad that they are dead too.
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On January 11 2012 16:34 fuzzy_panda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:25 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Hmm, interesting post for sure. I don't disagree with everything your saying, I think some of what your saying is right and even intelligent. What I definitely disagree with is you saying, "being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever." Nuno wasn't stabbed for no reason at all, he was stabbed because he harassed, attacked, and tormented another child for over a YEAR. He did this for no reason, he knew he was making this kid miserable he knew what he was doing and he paid for it. I would never celebrate the death of a child and I feel terrible for Nuno's family, but if Nuno is going to torment and potentially scar another kid for life for nothing but kicks I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy at all for his death, as cold as that may make me to you. now im just making wild conjecture here, but could it be possible that the bully himself was experiencing issues? of course that doesn't excuse him taking it out on this poor kid, but it certainly gives reason to what he is doing. a lot of bullies do what they do because of trouble at home. this happens so often that its pretty much the cliche backstory to any bully. either that or the bully is mentally disturbed sociopath. still either way I do feel sympathy for him and wonder what his backstory is.
Your completely right, he most certainly could have been experiencing these issues himself. What I don't agree with is this giving him reason to torture of his peers. Really that's a tough slope your talking it, he could have been physically abused by his dad or uncle or relative and doesn't know any better then take his aggression out this way. That's actually really hard for me, what if he's faced this abuse his whole life and doesn't know better? I don't have a good answer honestly.
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On January 11 2012 16:34 fuzzy_panda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:25 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Hmm, interesting post for sure. I don't disagree with everything your saying, I think some of what your saying is right and even intelligent. What I definitely disagree with is you saying, "being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever." Nuno wasn't stabbed for no reason at all, he was stabbed because he harassed, attacked, and tormented another child for over a YEAR. He did this for no reason, he knew he was making this kid miserable he knew what he was doing and he paid for it. I would never celebrate the death of a child and I feel terrible for Nuno's family, but if Nuno is going to torment and potentially scar another kid for life for nothing but kicks I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy at all for his death, as cold as that may make me to you. now im just making wild conjecture here, but could it be possible that the bully himself was experiencing issues? of course that doesn't excuse him taking it out on this poor kid, but it certainly gives reason to what he is doing. a lot of bullies do what they do because of trouble at home. this happens so often that its pretty much the cliche backstory to any bully. either that or the bully is mentally disturbed sociopath. still either way I do feel sympathy for him and wonder what his backstory is.
Doesn't matter. The victim still experiences the same pain, the same violations of his rights. Do we let rapists off because they really needed to get laid?
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On January 11 2012 16:43 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:34 fuzzy_panda wrote:On January 11 2012 16:25 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 16:12 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 16:02 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:33 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 15:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 11 2012 15:19 Air4013 wrote:On January 11 2012 14:40 HULKAMANIA wrote:Wow. Who knew? I've spent eight or so years on this site, and I've never, ever been so disgusted by a thread as I am by this one. I just have no words... I mean even granting that this Florida judge was right (which TL in any other case would definitely not grant to a Jeb Bush appointee who made a courtroom decision based on a vague-as-hell law lobbied through a red-state congress by the NRA [1])... but whatever... even granting that Jorge Saavedra acted purely out of visceral fear for his own life, I just can't stomach that there are posters in this thread fucking relishing in the fact that he stabbed another teen to death at a bus-stop. I can't fucking stand it. If you feel joy or satisfaction or even vindication when you hear about a minor being brutally killed by another minor for whatever god-damned reason at all, you are a sick person. Period. Lol here we have someone who has never experienced physical and mental torture for no other reason then the torturers jollies, what a disguising view of things. I can't stomach someone so ignorant to believe that someone tormenting another person to the point of fearing for their life should go unpunished. "I can't fucking stand it." You are assuming that I was never bullied when it was an almost daily reality for me in middle and high school. Does it disturb you that your rejection of my post hinges on a fictional account of my life that you have created to protect your worldview? Probably not. I find that pretty hard to believe, or the 'abuse' you experienced was nowhere near the level in this case, there's a huge difference in being pushed into a locker and being circled by 8 teens who want nothing more then to beat living the shit out of you. Of course you find that hard to believe—because in your head the only possible way that I can disagree with you on this point is by being "so ignorant" and believing a bully should go "unpunished." You find it hard to believe because your insight into this case is pristine and disinterested and mine is misguided and deluded. As a child, I was bullied. I was stolen from and intimidated and humiliated in front of my peers and even beaten up on different occasions. What does my testimony matter, though? Your mind is already made up. Your conclusions concluded, and my protests are invalid because you know—without ever having met me, without the ability to even pick me out in a crowd—that my personal history invalidates my opinion on this subject. Well if true you have my honest and sincere sympathy over what happened to you as a child, as you can tell from my comments I feel like nobody should have to endure the kind of abuse that you, myself, and the child from this case endured. What I find so ridiculous is your view on the subject at hand which you seem to have gone unbelievably off-topic from, a child was beaten, tortured, and scared to the point he feared for his life he brought the knife because he feared these people where going to beat him so badly he could die and you feel the aggressor is the victim in this situation? Get real man, he tormented this kid for over a year for no reason man and the victim finally retaliated after all the abuse he's suffered and he's the bad guy? Totally delusional. Listen to me and actually hear what I am saying rather than what you think I am saying: I am not against Jorge Saavedra. You will never find me calling him "the bad guy," and you certainly did not in the post that you originally attacked me for. All of that occurred in your head. What I am against is the widespread celebration of a sixteen-year-old being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever. I am against the downright ghastly joy that some posters are taking in what is a truly fucking horrific and tragic series of events all the way around. Believe it or not, and this may surprise you, it is possible to feel empathy for both the young men in this situation. It's not very vogue to feel for Nuno, of course, because he is a "bully" and deserves violent death before he reaches legal adulthood. But you still can feel it if you try. Hmm, interesting post for sure. I don't disagree with everything your saying, I think some of what your saying is right and even intelligent. What I definitely disagree with is you saying, "being stabbed to death for any reason whatsoever." Nuno wasn't stabbed for no reason at all, he was stabbed because he harassed, attacked, and tormented another child for over a YEAR. He did this for no reason, he knew he was making this kid miserable he knew what he was doing and he paid for it. I would never celebrate the death of a child and I feel terrible for Nuno's family, but if Nuno is going to torment and potentially scar another kid for life for nothing but kicks I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy at all for his death, as cold as that may make me to you. now im just making wild conjecture here, but could it be possible that the bully himself was experiencing issues? of course that doesn't excuse him taking it out on this poor kid, but it certainly gives reason to what he is doing. a lot of bullies do what they do because of trouble at home. this happens so often that its pretty much the cliche backstory to any bully. either that or the bully is mentally disturbed sociopath. still either way I do feel sympathy for him and wonder what his backstory is. Doesn't matter. The victim still experiences the same pain, the same violations of his rights. Do we let rapists off because they really needed to get laid?
Really good point, but a horrible analogy.
(I agree with your point for the record, but the analogy is really bad IMO.)
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EPT
