|
While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
The GSL is a complete joke. He did nothing wrong within the rules, and they revoke his well earned Code S seed for no reason? Idra and Sen didn't even place as well as Nani did at past MLG's, maybe its the korean mentality about things and they don't feel like Nani deserves it because of his manners?
Screw it, i'm just not going to watch GSL for a few years in protest of it.
|
On December 15 2011 03:04 ChrysaliS_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:02 Split. wrote:
Does anybody know if there was a reason they didn't regame?
I mean they weren't exactly behind in schedule after the probe rush... so if they wanted a serious game why didn't they tell him and let the players play again? GOM can't be that narrow minded to say a regame is impossible That would have just been silly.
Silly? I can't be more silly than asking players to play a game that doesn't matter in the first place.
|
On December 15 2011 03:13 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:11 Locustrockz wrote:On December 15 2011 03:08 MandoRelease wrote:On December 15 2011 02:51 Locustrockz wrote:On December 15 2011 02:49 MandoRelease wrote:On December 15 2011 02:41 ninjamyst wrote:On December 15 2011 02:36 Aerakin wrote:
Gom had all the rights to punish Naniwa.
However, the punishment is way too big. You don't punish a player that hard on their first "offense".
First strike = you're out is bad bad bad. So the first time you cheat is ok? First time you steal is ok? The punishment isn't even that big. He didn't get banned from GSL. He can still qualify again. What Gom did wasn't that big of a deal. Exactly. It's just one season of the GSL, get over it people. No need to be outraged because naniwa got what he deserved (yeah, he did). If i were in charge, it would be a 3 seasons ban. One season? That's if he can make it through the hell that is code b. There are so many good players that are unable to get through code b. Don't treat it like is cake. He's 0-10 in GSL right now, and if he can't get through code B, then I think it means he's just not good enough. I personnally won't miss him if he can't get to code S again and get stuck in code B. So DRG isn't good enough? How about Puma? DRG has a much better record in GSL, GSTL and the special tournaments like AOL, he didn't lose all his games. He also qualified for Code A, and this season, by making it back to Code S after losing in the first round, proved that he deserves to be there. He also finished first in his group in this very tournament that Naniwa went 0-4...
how long did it take him to get there? Months. A lot of qualifiers. So if he can't make it through code b once he must suck even though he's beaten DRG and Nestea. Oh wait MVP too.... and Leenock.... and HuK..... dang that is a lot of code s players
|
Well, I'm not really surprised. But I definitely feel like this was an over reaction on Gom's part. Out of all the bad mannered things I've seen people do in starcraft, what Naniwa did was nowhere near the top of the list.
|
On December 15 2011 03:10 dp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:03 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:59 dp wrote:On December 15 2011 02:51 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:50 dp wrote:On December 15 2011 02:47 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:45 dp wrote:
His personal view on the situation is irrelevant. For example, lets imagine he was invited to a show match where the winner takes $5,000 and the loser takes $2,500. What if his mindset that day is that he only needs $2,500, so the match is meaningless. He probe rushes 3 games outta 5, losing outright. The contract doesn't necessarily state that he has to TRY to win the matches to get paid. You think this is OK? Of a professional? Grow up. Your personal views on the situation don't matter. You are being paid to provide entertainment to fans. If you don't feel the need to do your job, there is a good chance you won't have one.
No one would be satisfied with $2500 when $5000 can be won, your example is terrible. Maybe you are confused. It doesn't matter what you think. Remember? Only what he thinks. Because the world revolves around his mindset. If you can't understand the point of my post, don't respond with mindless dribble. K, thanks, bye. why does it only matter what he thinks when his "personal view is irrelevant"...stop defending your terrible example Alright, I guess you don't understand English. HE FELT THE MATCH WAS MEANINGLESS, AND SO HE DIDN'T TRY TO WIN. That is what you are defending. I am saying his mindset is not the only thing that matters, there is a level of professionalism and expectation to do his job. He did not do his job. Whether he felt he had to or not is not relevant. Do you not understand this? He tried to be a smart ass and was punished for it.. You are surely smart enough to understand that. Don't be blind to it because you like naniwa. His view on what is meaningless does not mean he is no longer required to do his job. Plain and simple. My example is over the top, but is the same. He knew what was expected when he was told he was not getting a w.o. He decided to give one anyway. Your example is over the top but its completely different because there's SOMETHING to be won..$2500 as opposed to NOTHING like going 2nd last or last in the group stage. Your right he was being a smartass, i never argued for his decisions i just let you know your example was completely irrelevant to the situation Sorry if I am somehow not being clear on this, so let me recap. The example I gave was to show that your views on his actions don't matter. If he feels that the extra $2,500 is meaningless that day, and doesn't play, there is no difference. HIS VIEW ON IT. I can explain why it could be meaningless to him, but that is besides the point. The point is that he felt it was meaningless and didn't play. The fans, sponsors, and nestea did not see it as meaningless. If they had, there would be no backlash. The point is that his view on what is meaningless or not doesn't matter. He knew he was required to play. He didn't. There are consequences to not doing your job, even if you believe you don't have to.
Ah gotcha, my bad but yes I agree he didnt "really" show up to play that fourth set. Mentally he wasn't in it but his view on his career is winning is everything and when he couldnt advance it was probably devastating.
He should be punnished ( i suggested early a $1400 USD fine, amount he would make for being in Ro48 code S and then allowed to play through).
Nice arguing with you  , gotta go write an exam lol
|
On December 15 2011 03:05 TaKemE wrote:
""Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter.""
Mr.Chae calling Naniwa "amateur prize money hunter" for sure made me lose respect for GOM, even if Naniwa did something wrong starting to call him words like that is just plain wrong...
Thats the truth and is right in every possible way. If he wants to make money go crush the competition and scoop up money from multiple tournaments out there without hardly any risk. If you want to be the best, earn respect, and be a professional, play every game as a professional, put your damn feelings aside, man up and don't treat anything in your profession as "meaningless" and learn from it. There are people there who work on production, casting, soundbytes and all the little things to make the experience of the professional and the viewers top notch and Naniwa simply spit in their faces with that little move he did.
|
On December 15 2011 03:11 aviator116 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:09 zguL wrote:
My two cents about the incident, in bullet form :-)
- Naniwa should have just played the game, but it's much easier to make this decision in retrospect when we have all witnessed the reaction of Korea and others.
- Despite this, however, I still stand behind Naniwa even though he probe rushed. He had just suffered a bitter 0 - 3 defeat, and it was impossible for him to advance in the tournament. He was about to play a (tournament-wise) meaningless match. People who have followed Naniwa knows that the only thing that matters to Naniwa is winning, second place is nothing to him. Yes, he still should have played the game but I understand why, in the heat of the moment, he made that decision.
- Team MVPs official twitter message is in my opinion much more unprofessional than this whole incident. To officially hate on Naniwa this way, even though he has been training in their team house, is just really, really low.
- Calling Naniwa an amateur prize money hunter on Blizzard tournament's live stream is just as unprofessional as what Team MVP twittered.
- Not letting him have his code S spot (that he himself earned) because he chose not to play an irrelevant match is a stupid decision. GSL really overreacted here.
- Final point: Naniwa made a bad decision, and GSL/Korea/Other overreacted. Naniwa deserves better. He did not try to intentionally disrespect anyone. watch the recent State of the Game. the guys on it essentially disprove all of your points better than i can.
I'm waiting for the VOD to get uploaded.
|
On December 15 2011 03:13 Tef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:10 BlazingGlory wrote:
So who actually knew beforehand MLG Providence doesnt give you code S seed ? Nobody, except perhaps MLG and GOM... I think MLG should come out and explain the possibly false advertisement.or missinformation they have been communicated.
MLG Providence did give a Code S spot. It gave one to Naniwa.
He then disrespected the GSL and the fans of the GSL, and they decided that a fair punishment was the loss of his spot.
Similarly, CoCa's finish in GSL last season also gave a Code S spot, and he lost it thorugh outside actions.
|
On December 15 2011 03:11 perestain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:05 ZeaL. wrote:
If I see any more people saying that Naniwa was using a "strategy" that could have won (nonzero win percentage lol!) and is comparable to proxy 2-gate or anything cheesy, I think I'm going to have an aneurysm. Really says a lot about the sc2 community. The fact that people are like LULZ I FOUND IT HILARIOUS... sigh. At least it seems like these people constitute <50% of the posters.
Personally I could care less, I just find the fact that people are defending naniwa to be mindblowing. I find it mindblowing that people who claim to value competition want players to be forced to fake it when there is no competition.
THats not the freaking point .... there was a scheduled match just because one party doesn't want to play it because it's meaningless and he's butthurt since he's 0:3 doesn't give him the right to act like an idiot. Because thats what he basically did.
|
On December 15 2011 03:10 ZeaL. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:07 Mietiex wrote:On December 15 2011 03:05 ZeaL. wrote:
If I see any more people saying that Naniwa was using a "strategy" that could have won (nonzero win percentage lol!) and is comparable to proxy 2-gate or anything cheesy, I think I'm going to have an aneurysm. Really says a lot about the sc2 community. The fact that people are like LULZ I FOUND IT HILARIOUS... sigh. At least it seems like these people constitute <50% of the posters.
Personally I could care less, I just find the fact that people are defending naniwa to be mindblowing. Apparently you care more than you would admit. I don't care about Naniwa losing his code s spot or being a dick, if gom didn't do anything it would be fine by me. The last bit of money I put into SC2 was over half a year ago. I just find it sad that the sc2 community defends players like naniwa.
When writing these comments, you clearly show you care. You have an opinion on this matter, so you voice them.
So don't give me the I don't care crap.
First of all, you shouldn't make the rules so it can be so widely interpreted: During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours.
Haven't we seen this many of times though, in different forms, by Korean players, in the GSL? Things like MC's thumbs down, or him bashing his fist on the player booth in GSTL. Not even mentioning the manner mules and Nexi. I think Gom has double standards and should either apply this rule to every player, or make the rules more specific, or (which has my preference) accept that this is part of gaming, emotions and stop worrying about insignificant things like a probe rush. I would rather see him throw away a game that is of no importance anymore, than dragging it out to a late, boring game. This is my opinion though and I am sure many other people think differently. However, if he would have done a 2 gate proxy or 4-gate, like many Koreans do when playing a meaningless game, it would have been acceptable to everyone.
The fans and Gom need to accept that if a pro already lost a lot of games, is frustrated and wants to end the last meaningless game quickly they have the right to do so, or stop being damn hypocritical. Anyway, the dumb insulting remarks Mr. Chae made after handing out the ban was in my opinion way over the top and made me decide not to watch a show that has double standards and such an unprofessional CEO.
|
On December 15 2011 03:13 Master_Blaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:08 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 03:07 Master_Blaster wrote:
Not all warriors are Samurais so why make them harakiri even though they don't have the some principles of life? GOM is forcing the korean principles on StarCraft over the foreign scene and i don't actually like that.
You really think it's a Korean principle to, if you're paid to have people watch you play a game, actually make some attempt at playing the game? Actually they are not payed to play for us, but we pay to see them play. Quite a difference. And he played 100% when it mattered.
PLEASE make this the thread topic!
|
On December 15 2011 03:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:05 dp wrote:On December 15 2011 02:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 15 2011 02:50 dp wrote:On December 15 2011 02:47 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:45 dp wrote:
His personal view on the situation is irrelevant. For example, lets imagine he was invited to a show match where the winner takes $5,000 and the loser takes $2,500. What if his mindset that day is that he only needs $2,500, so the match is meaningless. He probe rushes 3 games outta 5, losing outright. The contract doesn't necessarily state that he has to TRY to win the matches to get paid. You think this is OK? Of a professional? Grow up. Your personal views on the situation don't matter. You are being paid to provide entertainment to fans. If you don't feel the need to do your job, there is a good chance you won't have one.
No one would be satisfied with $2500 when $5000 can be won, your example is terrible. Maybe you are confused. It doesn't matter what you think. Remember? Only what he thinks. Because the world revolves around his mindset. If you can't understand the point of my post, don't respond with mindless dribble. K, thanks, bye. Your analogy is still faulty. Naniwa always plays to win tournaments, and he doesn't care about entertaining audiences. That's the way he is. If he loses, he wants to move on. He doesn't care about pleasing the crowd. He doesn't have the greatest personality (which clearly hurts him in situations like this, as Huk wouldn't have been punished in an identical situation), but he cares about success. The point is that what Naniwa finds to be meaningless at the time is not relevant. He is there to do a job, whether he wants to or not doesn't matter. Whether the outcome matters is irrelavant. If I go to work today and no customers come in, my boss still has to pay he. He can't decide not to. Likewise if I go in tomorrow and don't work while there are customers there, he has the right to fire me. This is how the world works. His personal view on the situation at the time doesn't matter. He did his job. Even if he was contracted to play a game vs. Nestea regardless of their 0-3 records, he sat in the booth and started the game. It's not like he didn't show up. You don't like his strategy? You don't like the lack of entertainment? Tough luck. Plenty of people don't like cheese and all-in strategies any more than a worker rush; they consider not standard play "not even trying". You can't make a person try to win a game that has no meaning for them. He did what he needed to do.
No. His job is not to show up. Go ahead, do that at your job. Show up, but don't actually do what you are required to. Go work as a cashier and ring up the first item of 1 person and then stop and sit there. Let me know how that works out for you.
|
On December 15 2011 03:14 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:11 aviator116 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:09 zguL wrote:
My two cents about the incident, in bullet form :-)
- Naniwa should have just played the game, but it's much easier to make this decision in retrospect when we have all witnessed the reaction of Korea and others.
- Despite this, however, I still stand behind Naniwa even though he probe rushed. He had just suffered a bitter 0 - 3 defeat, and it was impossible for him to advance in the tournament. He was about to play a (tournament-wise) meaningless match. People who have followed Naniwa knows that the only thing that matters to Naniwa is winning, second place is nothing to him. Yes, he still should have played the game but I understand why, in the heat of the moment, he made that decision.
- Team MVPs official twitter message is in my opinion much more unprofessional than this whole incident. To officially hate on Naniwa this way, even though he has been training in their team house, is just really, really low.
- Calling Naniwa an amateur prize money hunter on Blizzard tournament's live stream is just as unprofessional as what Team MVP twittered.
- Not letting him have his code S spot (that he himself earned) because he chose not to play an irrelevant match is a stupid decision. GSL really overreacted here.
- Final point: Naniwa made a bad decision, and GSL/Korea/Other overreacted. Naniwa deserves better. He did not try to intentionally disrespect anyone. watch the recent State of the Game. the guys on it essentially disprove all of your points better than i can. Bullshit, half of his points are talking about things that happened after SotG had aired for fuck sake. The MVP thing wasn't discussed at all. The first two points are pretty much exactly what Tyler was saying.
so what's the problem? naniwa probably acted like a unprofessional douche during his stay at their house and MVP called him out for it. "Oh no he didn't". Now who am I going to believe? A korean pro team that has no problem getting along with Col or a guy who can't demonstrate any level of maturity and has been "banned" in 3 tournaments and hopped 6 teams over the course of a year.
|
Listen to Khaldor laying out some truth on GOM!
|
On December 15 2011 02:52 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:47 m0ck wrote:
Okay, here's the situation. Naniwa gets second at Providence and is qualified for code S. Now, according to GOM, as a part of their restructuring of the Code S league-system, they cancel the qualification spot and instead decide on a system, where they can invite two players to code S. They inform no-one of this decision, including the guy who qualified through Providence and still believes he is qualified for the tournament. He lives in S Korea, expecting to play the tournament from the beginning of January.
Now, one day after the controversy of naniwas match against nestea, and after having publically stated that: "NaNiwa is baned 2012 GSL codeS Season#1 Seed. so, GamaniaSen is coming! [2] #GSL [3] #SC2", suddenly GOM thinks of informing the public and naniwa of this change of system. They are infact not banning naniwa from code S, but just not inviting him to the tournament.
There are two options.
1) GOM is coming up with a story in order to make a controversial decision less so. Naniwa was indeed banned from code S, but the implication, that GOM can backtrack on an agreement with MLG and a player on no other basis than that they feel like, doesn't look good and so they come up with a story to make it seem less controversial.
2) Events did in fact transpire as described by GOM, with some pretty startling implication. Though they no longer consider naniwa qualified for code S, they do not inform him, his team, their partner mlg or the public of this change of policy, even though the player in question is establishing himself in S Korea with the expectation of playing code S in january.
I'm not sure which situation is preferable. I find the implications of what has happened pretty disturbing. Either, GOM is lying, or they failed to inform any of the involved partied of their change of policy. They make no consideration of the player who is basing his life around his expected qualification, nor apparently of their business partner. Some might call that 'unprofessional'.. Or 3) Wait for MLG's official statement. It's possibly they already knew about this beforehand and simply hasn't told the public that the direct seeding did not apply to Providence.
There is something wrong with tournaments announcing change of rules after said tournaments took place, imagine you win 100 000$ only to discover later that organizers changed it to 10 000$ and just "forgot" to tell anyone about it.
|
I guarantee you that if that probe rush had been done in good humour all would have been forgiven. If Boxer had done it, or MC, as a joke, everybody would have laughed and there would be no drama. But Naniwa had a hissy fit and did it in rage, which is poor sportsmanship, and now he's got egg on his face.
|
Well, NaNi gained a fan in me atleast, after the Chill get out episode in TSL 3 I thought Nani were just another BM prick.. This episode showed me that Nani is much more than that, he's a hilarious bm prick who now arguably is one of my favourite players
|
SC2 doesn't need players like Naniwa. I thought his first run at MLG going 22-0 or so was amazing and I became a fan. But slowly and surely his belligerence really started to stand out. Reading some of these tweets only confirms what a LOT of other players working in SC2 esports--MVP, col, casters, players and koreans--right now thinks of the guy. It really is sad. I'm not sure if he has a mental condition that is responsible for his social awkwardness or belligerence, but either way it was out of line and this is a good move by GSL.
GSL needs to keep their establishment professional. There are conduct rules just like any other sport out there.
I was taught in my junior high baseball team that even if you have no chance of winning, you play the rest of the game out no matter what. It's a matter of respect for the game.
I understand his viewpoint after reading the interview, but it's one of those behaviors that is not condoned because imagine if every player did it. It would make the tournaments horrible to watch because a chunk of them would be people just purposefully (and obviously) throwing the game away.
|
Good. People are acting like Naniwa will not get there again. He will get back into Code S or even A. I dont understand the big deal here. This is a good move. He is not banned for ever. He'll be back, everyone stop complaining.
|
Way to completely delegitimise the GSL Mr Chae, apparently their response to something they view as unprofessional is be ten times more unprofessional and turn their league into a series of arbitrary rules and rulings that completely undermine the competition. I personally won't give them any more money at any point, even thought Idra is the player I like to watch the most. I genuinely hope this has a negative effect on the GSL as a whole since allowing tournaments to be arbitrary based on emotional reactions by their staff is one of the worst precedents I can imagine for growth in competitive starcraft.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
