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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
Switzerland2892 Posts
What did khaldor say?
I started listening when he said anyway thats' gome choice...
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On December 15 2011 03:20 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:20 JoeSchmoe wrote:On December 15 2011 03:17 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 03:08 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 03:07 Master_Blaster wrote:
Not all warriors are Samurais so why make them harakiri even though they don't have the some principles of life? GOM is forcing the korean principles on StarCraft over the foreign scene and i don't actually like that.
You really think it's a Korean principle to, if you're paid to have people watch you play a game, actually make some attempt at playing the game? Actually they are not payed to play for us, but we pay to see them play. Quite a difference. And he played 100% when it mattered. PLEASE make this the thread topic! GOM paid him $850 to play 4 games in the group stages. he played 3. it's funny how people choose to blatantly ignore facts to mount a supposed "argument" Didnt you watch the stream? He DID play FOUR games. Are you dense?
Nobody in their right mind can argue that he actually played that game.
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LMAO if Quantic gaming releases naniwa and he leaves korea.
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On December 15 2011 03:20 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:17 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 03:08 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 03:07 Master_Blaster wrote:
Not all warriors are Samurais so why make them harakiri even though they don't have the some principles of life? GOM is forcing the korean principles on StarCraft over the foreign scene and i don't actually like that.
You really think it's a Korean principle to, if you're paid to have people watch you play a game, actually make some attempt at playing the game? Actually they are not payed to play for us, but we pay to see them play. Quite a difference. And he played 100% when it mattered. PLEASE make this the thread topic! GOM paid him $850 to play 4 games in the group stages. he played 3. it's funny how people choose to blatantly ignore facts to mount a supposed "argument"
How do you know that says in the contract? Maybe it says that every progamer gets 850$ just for competing. Maybe we should obligate them to play for us 85 minutes for the 850$ and ban them if they don't. They are not entertainers!
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So, can anyone explain me what exacly were the grounds for baning him, in a logical way? i mean, it seems to be because the "rule" he broke is based on opinion, rather then facts, and that just seems like a bad way to manage stuff, if hypothetically, a group of people just goes and says that they found naniwa tactic very entertaining does the argument still hold? even more, why is everyone saying we need to understand koreans, and they dont need to understand foreigner people? are we the only ones interested in building a community with them? must we hold their principles in every interaction we have with them while they wont hold regard for others? maybe to naniwa principles it was insulting to him that he was forced to play a pit match from where he could only lose, and yes, he is paid to put up a show, but isn't GSL interested in what he has to offer? he is not a simple officer employ, he has a set of skills wich destinguish him, is that so far off that people cant even consider that and i'm just completly crazy?
and is just simply droping the hammer a good way to handle things like this? it seems a rather destructive way, and yes, many agree with this decision and say good ridance to thos who dont, but shouldnt we all be working together to grow esports instead of keeping ourselves in our confortable bubble?
it seems to me that GSL does a good job in alot of stuff, managing themselves and the players doesn't seem to be one, but well, maybe i'm just dumb
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On December 15 2011 03:20 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:20 JoeSchmoe wrote:On December 15 2011 03:17 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 03:08 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 03:07 Master_Blaster wrote:
Not all warriors are Samurais so why make them harakiri even though they don't have the some principles of life? GOM is forcing the korean principles on StarCraft over the foreign scene and i don't actually like that.
You really think it's a Korean principle to, if you're paid to have people watch you play a game, actually make some attempt at playing the game? Actually they are not payed to play for us, but we pay to see them play. Quite a difference. And he played 100% when it mattered. PLEASE make this the thread topic! GOM paid him $850 to play 4 games in the group stages. he played 3. it's funny how people choose to blatantly ignore facts to mount a supposed "argument" Didnt you watch the stream? He DID play FOUR games. Are you dense?
not even going to bother. you must be one of the advocates that the probe rush is a legitimate strategy in starcraft 2.
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I feel he deserved it. Naniwa cant always get what he wants. Wonder what his reaction will be.
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Ugh this whole situation just illustrates why I think the MLG/GSL exchange program is just retarded.
Koreans have shown they can win through the open bracket, and foreigners who are seeded into the GSL and don't work their way up usually do terrible. Why do we need this?
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On December 15 2011 03:12 Giriath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:02 mazwoo wrote:On December 15 2011 02:33 labbe wrote:
This isn't even about Naniwa anymore, this whole situation just shows how GOMTV has no respect for the foreign community, no respect for thier customers, and no respect for their players. This whole situation is an embarrassment for GOMTV, and everybody involved. They should man up and take some responsibility instead of making excuses.
I have lost all respect for GOMTV as a company. They are not the organization I want to lead the E-sports scene forward.
EDIT: I at least hopes that GOMTV takes this as a lesson, and starts to actually communicate with the community. If they had been clear on their rules and their seeding policy, none of this drama would have occurred. Wow...sorry, but thats just ridiculous. I mean, i think it is a pretty hard punishment, it may even be to hard. But i can respect that decision. I think the Korean culture is vastly different, and things like always giving your best are very important to them. I mean, one thing korean players will always say in interviews is that they try to show the best games possible to their fans. I'm actually ashamed that this community seems unable to understand that. Everybody saying that GOM is unprofessional etc., isnt even trying to understand why throwing a game in a korean tournament may be a bigger deal for koreans than for us. GOM provided us with the best production, best/fastest vods, highest quality games. How can you say they aren't respecting their customers? Because they banned a player that refused to put on a show for said customers? If anybody in all of this isnt respecting his "customers", it is Naniwa. They made starcraft 2 to what it is in korea today. I sure hope they keep leading Esports, because they have done a pretty good job so far. To loose "all respect" because of this, what childish behavior is this? Everybody saying they will no longer support GOM, just because they acted according to their cultural values, is - in my opinion - ignorant. You don't understand how law and business work. GomTV literally cannot do what they have done; the "rule" they used to punish NaNiWa is not a legit rule you can have on a contract. GomTV is not a saint that brings you SC2 entertainment, they are a company that has responsibilities. In breaking those responsibilities, they should be sued, those responsible judged and we viewers finally (hopefully) get a competent GSL management team.
Well, while i understand that you side with your countrymen and i see why you are arguing for him, that is -again- ridiculous. Now, i dont know any details about Naninwas contracts with GOM and I'm sure you do neither. But if, as you say yourself, GOM is a company and is running a business, than I'm sure they have a lawyer and they know what can and cant be done. So if they, after discussing it, say that they ban Naniwa for one season, i think they know that they CAN. Also, i dont see how they broke any responsibility? Again, Naniwa broke his by throwing away a game and clearly acting against a rule. That rule has been posted countless times in this thread btw.
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On December 15 2011 03:17 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:14 Exarl25 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:11 aviator116 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:09 zguL wrote:
My two cents about the incident, in bullet form :-)
- Naniwa should have just played the game, but it's much easier to make this decision in retrospect when we have all witnessed the reaction of Korea and others.
- Despite this, however, I still stand behind Naniwa even though he probe rushed. He had just suffered a bitter 0 - 3 defeat, and it was impossible for him to advance in the tournament. He was about to play a (tournament-wise) meaningless match. People who have followed Naniwa knows that the only thing that matters to Naniwa is winning, second place is nothing to him. Yes, he still should have played the game but I understand why, in the heat of the moment, he made that decision.
- Team MVPs official twitter message is in my opinion much more unprofessional than this whole incident. To officially hate on Naniwa this way, even though he has been training in their team house, is just really, really low.
- Calling Naniwa an amateur prize money hunter on Blizzard tournament's live stream is just as unprofessional as what Team MVP twittered.
- Not letting him have his code S spot (that he himself earned) because he chose not to play an irrelevant match is a stupid decision. GSL really overreacted here.
- Final point: Naniwa made a bad decision, and GSL/Korea/Other overreacted. Naniwa deserves better. He did not try to intentionally disrespect anyone. watch the recent State of the Game. the guys on it essentially disprove all of your points better than i can. Bullshit, half of his points are talking about things that happened after SotG had aired for fuck sake. The MVP thing wasn't discussed at all. The first two points are pretty much exactly what Tyler was saying. so what's the problem? naniwa probably acted like a unprofessional douche during his stay at their house and MVP called him out for it. "Oh no he didn't". Now who am I going to believe? A korean pro team that has no problem getting along with Col or a guy who can't demonstrate any level of maturity and has been "banned" in 3 tournaments and hopped 6 teams over the course of a year.
So you want esports to me more professional? Please tell me how this is professional: Team MVP officially talking bad about Naniwa (basically bullying him) for things that have (in your opinion) privately happened in their team house. They should keep this to themselves.
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Yeah I'm pretty disappointed about this. I don't see the difference between what Nani did and what people do when they sixpool/cheese just to get the games out of the way. Neither matches are entertaining. At least Nani had the balls to say that he wasn't going to waste anyone's time.
Yeah, pretty upset over this choice, tbh
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sport is not *work* in the same sense that you or I go and do a 9 to 5 job.
sport is not *entertainment* like the theatre or acting.
sport can have elements of work & entertainment but at it's heart it is competition.
If sport is changed from the integrety of the clash of opponents to a *job* or *entertainment* it is no longer serving the audience, they are being cheated.
Naniwa is there as a pure competitor wanting to be the best in the world. let him go about his business and let the tournaments be there for the players and not the other way around. This arrangement will get the very best for the audience even if they may have to witness the odd non-entertaining game.
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On December 15 2011 03:22 pPingu wrote:
What did khaldor say?
I started listening when he said anyway thats' gome choice...
He basically explained that Naniwa had no intention of BM or disrespect, only that he was completely crushed from his losses earlier and that the game should not be played at all since it was absolutely pointless competition wise.
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On December 14 2011 18:40 imMUTAble787 wrote:
I love Mr. Chae.
Good job for having standards.
Can't believe people aren't gonna buy passes cause of this, that's sad. GSL still has the best players of the world and has the best games, idk why you wouldn't pay for that.
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On December 15 2011 03:23 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:20 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:20 JoeSchmoe wrote:On December 15 2011 03:17 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 03:08 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 03:07 Master_Blaster wrote:
Not all warriors are Samurais so why make them harakiri even though they don't have the some principles of life? GOM is forcing the korean principles on StarCraft over the foreign scene and i don't actually like that.
You really think it's a Korean principle to, if you're paid to have people watch you play a game, actually make some attempt at playing the game? Actually they are not payed to play for us, but we pay to see them play. Quite a difference. And he played 100% when it mattered. PLEASE make this the thread topic! GOM paid him $850 to play 4 games in the group stages. he played 3. it's funny how people choose to blatantly ignore facts to mount a supposed "argument" Didnt you watch the stream? He DID play FOUR games. Are you dense? not even going to bother. you must be one of the advocates that the probe rush is a legitimate strategy in starcraft 2.
But where do you get the idea that he was payed $850 to play 4 games? thats money he won by makeing it into the tournament already.
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On December 15 2011 03:22 Yaki wrote:
LMAO if Quantic gaming releases naniwa and he leaves korea.
I'm actually getting worried that Quantic hasn't given an official statement on the matter yet (either in support or against his actions, he is their team member) and that Startale (where he's living) has also been absent in the discussion (gom's twitter/team mvp twitter/mc/ect have all been discussed)
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On December 15 2011 03:22 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:20 JoeSchmoe wrote:On December 15 2011 03:17 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Master_Blaster wrote:On December 15 2011 03:08 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 03:07 Master_Blaster wrote:
Not all warriors are Samurais so why make them harakiri even though they don't have the some principles of life? GOM is forcing the korean principles on StarCraft over the foreign scene and i don't actually like that.
You really think it's a Korean principle to, if you're paid to have people watch you play a game, actually make some attempt at playing the game? Actually they are not payed to play for us, but we pay to see them play. Quite a difference. And he played 100% when it mattered. PLEASE make this the thread topic! GOM paid him $850 to play 4 games in the group stages. he played 3. it's funny how people choose to blatantly ignore facts to mount a supposed "argument" No they dident... Naniwa qualifed for the seed into the tournament and the $850.
thats why he was called money-hunter
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On December 15 2011 03:15 Locustrockz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:13 sitromit wrote:On December 15 2011 03:11 Locustrockz wrote:On December 15 2011 03:08 MandoRelease wrote:On December 15 2011 02:51 Locustrockz wrote:On December 15 2011 02:49 MandoRelease wrote:On December 15 2011 02:41 ninjamyst wrote:On December 15 2011 02:36 Aerakin wrote:
Gom had all the rights to punish Naniwa.
However, the punishment is way too big. You don't punish a player that hard on their first "offense".
First strike = you're out is bad bad bad. So the first time you cheat is ok? First time you steal is ok? The punishment isn't even that big. He didn't get banned from GSL. He can still qualify again. What Gom did wasn't that big of a deal. Exactly. It's just one season of the GSL, get over it people. No need to be outraged because naniwa got what he deserved (yeah, he did). If i were in charge, it would be a 3 seasons ban. One season? That's if he can make it through the hell that is code b. There are so many good players that are unable to get through code b. Don't treat it like is cake. He's 0-10 in GSL right now, and if he can't get through code B, then I think it means he's just not good enough. I personnally won't miss him if he can't get to code S again and get stuck in code B. So DRG isn't good enough? How about Puma? DRG has a much better record in GSL, GSTL and the special tournaments like AOL, he didn't lose all his games. He also qualified for Code A, and this season, by making it back to Code S after losing in the first round, proved that he deserves to be there. He also finished first in his group in this very tournament that Naniwa went 0-4... how long did it take him to get there? Months. A lot of qualifiers. So if he can't make it through code b once he must suck even though he's beaten DRG and Nestea. Oh wait MVP too.... and Leenock.... and HuK..... dang that is a lot of code s players
So? All of those players you list have dropped games to Code B players or even foreigners at one point or another. Does that mean everyone they lost to once deserves a Code S spot? Naniwa already got 3 Code A seeds, got knocked out 3 times with 0-2 score in the first round. So far his performance at the GSL has ben abysmal and shown no indication that he deserves to be there.
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When in Rome, act as the Romans do.
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EPT
