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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 00:42 Mashmed wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:38 poorcloud wrote:On December 15 2011 00:35 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances. Again another Display of GomTVs Double Standards. They crossed the line on this decision completely. Why are people saying hero threw the game. Can they even deduce? Can they be 100% sure of it? What if hero just played badly? However, we are 100% sure that Naniwa threw the game. So bad luck to him, but this world is about keeping up appearances. So all those "keep up appearances are disgusting" people, please stop as i'm pretty sure thats what we all do everyday in our lives. If not, there will always be more conflict, thank you. Yupp I totally agree.. the fact that liars are praised as saints is the right thing to do. I for one like the honest people. If someone is honest to me telling me the harsh truth about something I will always value that persons opinion over anyone elses. I for one say what I think not what the world wants me to say that I think and some seem to think that that is immature, well atleast I am not a liar like the rest of the god damn world.
He didn't have to lie, he just had to be mature and play the game. It's playing a game, how harsh is it, jesus christ? It's not like it's a real job.
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I like the fact they're denying Naniwa his code S spot, while inviting Idra who did the same thing vs Jinro on Jungle Basin, except that match was friggin' important.
By "like" I mean "think GSL management is ridiculous".
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On December 15 2011 00:42 GodZo wrote:
Naniwa out, he is bm, than GOM who calls..... IDRA??!?!??!?
Seriously, GOM did the worst decision this time.
But Idra is smart with his bm. And when he does it, he's generally not wrong or breaking rules.
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IMO that dude who worker rushed vs WhiteRa in LB twice at MLG (sorry I forgot your name) should be banned from MLG.
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On December 15 2011 00:42 Mashmed wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:38 poorcloud wrote:On December 15 2011 00:35 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances. Again another Display of GomTVs Double Standards. They crossed the line on this decision completely. Why are people saying hero threw the game. Can they even deduce? Can they be 100% sure of it? What if hero just played badly? However, we are 100% sure that Naniwa threw the game. So bad luck to him, but this world is about keeping up appearances. So all those "keep up appearances are disgusting" people, please stop as i'm pretty sure thats what we all do everyday in our lives. If not, there will always be more conflict, thank you. Yupp I totally agree.. the fact that liars are praised as saints is the right thing to do. I for one like the honest people. If someone is honest to me telling me the harsh truth about something I will always value that persons opinion over anyone elses. I for one say what I think not what the world wants me to say that I think and some seem to think that that is immature, well atleast I am not a liar like the rest of the god damn world.
Yes thats true. But that means people will express their opinions of you as well. Koreans expressed their opinions on Naniwa, Gomtv did, and they banned him as a result.
The world revolves around no one. You decide to do something, you get the consequences. Simple as that.
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On December 15 2011 00:42 BronzeKnee wrote:
This is a great choice by GOM. We pay to see to Starcraft matches, if players can't provide entertaining ones then they shouldn't play. In this sense it is just like the UFC, who supports fighters who provide entertaining fights win or lose, because that is how the UFC makes money.
He gave you three games, which he could have won at one point or another. Are you saying they weren't entertaining enough?
All-ining and cheesing is not really entertaining for me, so if I gather a large enough group of people, I can get rid of them, even though, they're not actually losing them?
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after watching what naniwa did, i lost a lot of respect for him and deffinately am less of a naniwa fan, you wouldn't see boxer, whitera, tlo, etc. doing something he did in a situtation he was in, you'd see them have fun with it and play out the game to their best. no matter what was on the line, and that's why i love them and am huge fans of players of that caliber.
That said, however, i still don't agree with goms decision to remove him from code s. I understand that they felt disrespected and what not, however removing him from code s for throwing a pointless game doesn't make sense and the game should have never been played in the first place. I can understand the thought behind why they should remove him from their stand point at it, but it's the wrong decision to make. they should simply talk with him and clear it up with him directly so that something like this doesn't happen again. If he was reasonable, after a talk and apology, it would win back some naniwa respect for me personally. but simply doing this is wrong.
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On December 15 2011 00:43 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:39 iglocska wrote:On December 15 2011 00:36 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:On December 15 2011 00:36 azka wrote:On December 15 2011 00:33 dude_2 wrote:
i didn't read the whole thread. so sorry if someone has already written the same. but i am really wondering from the pages i have read, how people can argue there exists no throwing away of games in "real" sports. for example, it's pretty common in champions league (football) that already qualified teams send their b-team which is also a huge distortion of competition all the while other teams still playing for a spot.
anyone who has ever competed in sports knows that you don't play to your potential in a meaningless match and often don't make a real effort.
naniwa made it pretty obvious given that, but i as the audience can't blame him for that. Send your B team its one thing, but you will never see that B team do goals against their own team, which was what Naniwa did. Um... what? A lot of people here were arguing that a football team sending their B team to a match that has no value is the same as naniwa a-moving his probes into his opponents base. The reality is that doing a standard all-in like a 4gate / well known 2 base timing would be equal to sending the B-team and the probe a-move is the same as the players being fielded just standing still for the duration of the match. The problem here is that there are no rules that say "using only probes to attack" is not a valid starcraft strategy. This is what makes me the most upset. It's like GOM is trying to control how a starcraft game has to play out, something they will have to take up with Blizzard. I know the rule about not making fun of your opponent or whatever, that rule is waaaay too vague. And considering Naniwa is not from Korea, doesn't know their cultural traditions and preferences, I don't see how they could punish him at all.
On December 15 2011 00:43 Zorgaz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:41 gruff wrote:On December 15 2011 00:38 NHY wrote:On December 15 2011 00:29 Pholon wrote:On December 15 2011 00:25 Echo_ wrote:
This wouldn't have happened if he did what 99.9% of people would have done in his situation, which is to 4gate. People need to stop saying this. Requiring a certain strategy of a player is the complete opposite of what SC is all about..  It requires a strategy. So tell use what is a valid strategy and not then. What if he built a gateway, a zealot, boxed his probes and tried to micro? Useless strategy but a strategy. This argument is so incredible useless and you should all know it! He did not micro the probes, he did not intend to win, he just wanted to lose as fast as possible in a tournament where he had received money to compete.
Please, it's enough.
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Coca actually earned his Code S seed and it was taken away from him for similar reasons (he threw the game even though he was winning, Naniwa threw it at the beginning). IMO it seems fair, and this is exactly what I hoped would happen before--don't give him free entry into the GSL, especially Code S.
I would rather see free seeds go to Sen and Idra anyway, to be honest. Naniwa is too BM for my taste, and not a good representative of the foreign scene when there are so few in the GSL.
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Good for GOM. Naniwa doesn't deserve it anyway.
Fun fact: Jinro, Idra, Huk, Fenix, Thorzain, QXC, Sheth, TLO, Ret, Sen, Dimaga and TT1 have all won more games in GSL/GOMTV events. than Naniwa.
Artosis and Torch have won an equal amount of games as Naniwa. One.
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I want to hear the logic behind the people screaming racism.
They kicked out a foreigner who threw a game and gave him a ban for GSL January.
Then they gave two other foreigners free passes into Code S without having to do anything for it.
Where's the racism?
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On December 15 2011 00:38 theaxis12 wrote:
1. GOM is a private league that can allow or deny anyone the right to play in their tournament.
3 Naniwa has no right to play in GSL
I agree with these points, but my conclusion is different. GOM is moving from an open format to a format where they invite players who they think will provide the most entertainment. It is their right, but ultimately it does devalue their product for me.
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On December 15 2011 00:38 hALLE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:02 Clearout wrote:Gah gonna post it here too: GOM's rules do not say offending or abusive they say "Displaying violent behaviors to threaten the opposing player or the audience." So there are two possiblities: 1. Either they are doing this without basis in any of their rules, which makes it an very harsh punishment considering they can do this completely on their whims, basing it on their subjective opinion of a players behaviour. 2. The rule has been translated wrong or can be enterpreted differently in Korean. Which means they are using a rule which is not clear for a foreigner to throw out a punishment noone can expect for their actions, which is also not justifiable IMO. http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/64582 Quoting this to get people to talk about, didnt see any replies after it was posted. I think this is an excellent post. If the rule they say they are basing it on doesnt exist/is findable on their site this all seems very weird to me.
I honestly don't know why people keep talking about that rule. It bears nothing on this topic. It wasn't even mentioned by GOM as a reason.
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On December 15 2011 00:33 milky_muh wrote:
This is not how SC2 Tournament matches are supposed to be, even if the match doesn't matter. No player will ever be above a tournament and that is something every player should know. You mean like the Blizzcon finals which MVP and NesTea made unwatchable exhibition games that undermined the whole tournament? Ok I get it, this is more severe but we are in the same ballpark.
Naniwa made a justified decision and payed the price for it. Next time he will know what can and can't be done.
Just wondering why didn't Naniwa forfeit the game or wasn't there an option for it?
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On December 15 2011 00:41 Ravomat wrote:
I'm not sure if I'm going to buy another GSL subscription ever again. They are pissed everyone saw how flawed their format is and Naniwa now has to pay for it. Instead of basically banning him for a season they should clarify what is considered a valid strategy and change their format so this shit doesn't happen again.
Nani is good at exposing tournament defects. Difference is MLG manned up.
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Well GOM has to set an example, i mean if every other player just felt like throwing away his game just because he felt like it people would be in an outrage. Although i am a bit saddened Naniwa wont be playing next month its understandable
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On December 15 2011 00:42 BronzeKnee wrote:
This is a great choice by GOM. We pay to see to Starcraft matches, if players can't provide entertaining ones then they shouldn't play. In this sense it is just like the UFC, who supports fighters who provide entertaining fights win or lose, because that is how the UFC makes money. A pro player is not an entertainer, he is not paid to entertain. He is paid to win, he provides us with entertainment by proxy of attempting to win. If the player has nothing to win, you can't demand entertainment as result, since entertainment is not what he is there for, nor what he is paid for. Quite a big difference. Sure a player can entertain with nothing on the line for the sake of fans, respect or whatever else, but you shouldn't punish someone for not doing something they are neither there for or paid to do, without making that rather explicitly clear in your rules and terms for the competition.
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Kespa 2.0 has become a reality. It seems that stringent and unfair rules are a product of Korean culture in general rather than just of an isolated group of people.
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On December 15 2011 00:41 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:38 stratmatt wrote:
Was naniwa being paid $$$$ to participate in blizzard cup whether it be in the form of cash, gifts, travel expenses, living expenses, etc...? If he was, then he has an obligation to play the tournament games like a professional. If he wasnt, than ok I guess I could understand his protest however ill concieved. But if he was, than he seriously needs to reevalute his career choice and whether or not he is up to the task of carrying himself like a pro and not, as mr chae said perfectly, an 'ameteur prize hunter'. Sure was. GOM goes WAY out of their way to allow foreigners to be in the year ending tournament and goes WAY out of their way to get foreigners in Code A and Code S, and one of said foreigners gives them the middle finger as a thank you for accommodating them. LOL @ everyone defending Nani. I paid $10 to watch the tournament, not some child basically refuse to play. GOM goes out of their way to let foreigners into the most prestigious Starcraft league, and this is how they get repaid, and people are mad at GOM? Please...
Naniwa earned his spot in this tournament. He can play it out however he wants. If he just proxy gated every game it would've been still obvious he is throwing the games but you couldn't say one single damn about it. He spared everybody 5min of him playing when having already lost and no way to recover. Gom wanted a Game-Of-The-Year which would have been at best a 4gate. Very exciting.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50118 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:45 GodZo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:43 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 00:42 GodZo wrote:
Naniwa out, he is bm, than GOM who calls..... IDRA??!?!??!?
Seriously, GOM did the worst decision this time. idra maybe BM but he still shows professional behavior when he needs to, especially when playing in korea.. For sure... One Bunker... GG (in GSL)... Ragequit (out of Korea)... that is professional.
yes it is, it shows that he actually cares about the tournament he plays in.
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EPT
