EPTThe problem is that what's offensive is completely arbitrary. Offense is not something "given", it's "taken". A person can choose to be offended by anything if he wants to, but you cant forcibly offend a person that does not choose not to take offense.
NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 195
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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people. Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
The problem is that what's offensive is completely arbitrary. Offense is not something "given", it's "taken". A person can choose to be offended by anything if he wants to, but you cant forcibly offend a person that does not choose not to take offense. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:41 Fionn wrote: Really? RACISM? THEY ARE GIVING FREE SPOTS INTO CODE S FOR FOREIGNERS. They WANT FOREIGNERS in their tournament. They have been trying to force foreigners into Code S by giving free spots into Code A. The only one to get into Code S was Huk; all the other foreigners failed. It's crazy to think people actually believe Mr. Chae and GOM are trying to make it an all Korean league. If they wanted that, it would be simple: make foreigners qualify like everyone else through the Code A qualifiers. I really can't believe these racism claims... It's completely ridiculous what the hell is going on inside people's minds... | ||
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GodZo
Italy224 Posts
Seriously, GOM did the worst decision this time. | ||
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TrevaH
Canada122 Posts
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Mashmed
Sweden198 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:38 poorcloud wrote: Why are people saying hero threw the game. Can they even deduce? Can they be 100% sure of it? What if hero just played badly? However, we are 100% sure that Naniwa threw the game. So bad luck to him, but this world is about keeping up appearances. So all those "keep up appearances are disgusting" people, please stop as i'm pretty sure thats what we all do everyday in our lives. If not, there will always be more conflict, thank you. Yupp I totally agree.. the fact that liars are praised as saints is the right thing to do. I for one like the honest people. If someone is honest to me telling me the harsh truth about something I will always value that persons opinion over anyone elses. I for one say what I think not what the world wants me to say that I think and some seem to think that that is immature, well atleast I am not a liar like the rest of the god damn world. | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:41 gruff wrote: So tell use what is a valid strategy and not then. What if he built a gateway, a zealot, boxed his probes and tried to micro? Useless strategy but a strategy. This argument is so incredible useless and you should all know it! He did not micro the probes, he did not intend to win, he just wanted to lose as fast as possible in a tournament where he had received money to compete. | ||
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duckmaster
687 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:41 iglocska wrote: Yeah, because $100 and a code A spot are similar in value. What does it matter what value the prizes are? The point is that in Naniwa's case there was absolutely nothing in line, whereas there people were still playing for money (albeit small amount) and fame. So obviously the punishment should be harder, no? | ||
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:38 theaxis12 wrote: 1. GOM is a private league that can allow or deny anyone the right to play in their tournament. 2. Naniwa was an asshole who disrespected his opponent, the league and its place within the community, by throwing a match on the largest stage sc2 has to offer. Therefore 3 Naniwa has no right to play in GSL Good job GOM for enforcing a level of professionalism in what you are trying to make a legitimate sport. However, i must say that perhaps it would just be best to cancel irrelevant matches in the future so this issue does not come up. I know the people want to see them anyways, but it only takes one player not valuing his fans to start all kinds of problems. IMO MC had it right, lets look to White-ra for an example of how things should be done in e-sports. It just as much about winning as making GG for your fans. If they are so concerned with professionalism they should stop inviting players arbitrarily. How do you justify inviting Sen if you want it to be considered a lefitimate sport? And he technically didn't play in the gsl. | ||
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:39 iglocska wrote: A lot of people here were arguing that a football team sending their B team to a match that has no value is the same as naniwa a-moving his probes into his opponents base. The reality is that doing a standard all-in like a 4gate / well known 2 base timing would be equal to sending the B-team and the probe a-move is the same as the players being fielded just standing still for the duration of the match. The problem here is that there are no rules that say "using only probes to attack" is not a valid starcraft strategy. This is what makes me the most upset. It's like GOM is trying to control how a starcraft game has to play out, something they will have to take up with Blizzard. I know the rule about not making fun of your opponent or whatever, that rule is waaaay too vague. And considering Naniwa is not from Korea, doesn't know their cultural traditions and preferences, I don't see how they could punish him at all. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:42 GodZo wrote: Naniwa out, he is bm, than GOM who calls..... IDRA??!?!??!? Seriously, GOM did the worst decision this time. idra maybe BM but he still shows professional behavior when he needs to, especially when playing in korea.. | ||
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tlin
25 Posts
They're being pretty blatant about it at that. | ||
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legendre20
United States316 Posts
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On December 14 2011 21:07 -vVvTitan- wrote: I hope you get warned for your ignorance. Naniwa brought shame on the foreign scene as a whole with his decision. Am I alone in feeling embarrassed as a foreigner? I don't feel shame at all. It's understandable what he did, but it wasn't acceptable. I mean what I don't understand is that gom had the shitty format of having matches that don't matter be played, and then naniwa gets punished? | ||
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baoluvboa
743 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:43 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: The problem here is that there are no rules that say "using only probes to attack" is not a valid starcraft strategy. This is what makes me the most upset. It's like GOM is trying to control how a starcraft game has to play out, something they will have to take up with Blizzard. I know the rule about not making fun of your opponent or whatever, that rule is waaaay too vague. And considering Naniwa is not from Korea, doesn't know their cultural traditions and preferences, I don't see how they could punish him at all. 6 Probes rush is really not a valid strategy. This point shouldn't really be argued. | ||
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Swagizard
United States2 Posts
You simply don't disrespect the tournament organizers like that. They worked hard on organizing a tournament to please the fans and players and then Naniwa goes and makes a complete mockery of it in an extremely conspicuous way? Yeah, no. It doesn't matter if the game was meaningless or not. What he did shows that he didn't care about or respect GomTV or the fans or Nestea. In real sports, there's this thing called sportsmanship and Naniwa seems to not have a lot of it, although it was quite evident with his past actions, like calling everyone bad at HSC3, calling MLG a joke tournament, etc. NBA players don't call the NBA a joke if the referees make bad calls; if they do they get fined. Hopefully Naniwa learns from this. The punishment wasn't that bad. | ||
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:43 Zorgaz wrote: This argument is so incredible useless and you should all know it! He did not micro the probes, he did not intend to win, he just wanted to lose as fast as possible in a tournament where he had received money to compete. So are you saying it would have been ok if he's just tried to micro his probes? The point is not what he did or didn't do. It's what exactly would be punishable by the rules. | ||
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iglocska
Norway589 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:43 duckmaster wrote: What does it matter what value the prizes are? The point is that in Naniwa's case there was absolutely nothing in line, whereas there people were still playing for money (albeit small amount) and fame. So obviously the punishment should be harder, no? Wait, they were playing for fame and Naniwa and Nestea weren't considering that it was a hyped grudge match? Something that definitely drew a lot of viewers / subscribers in? | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:42 GodZo wrote: Naniwa out, he is bm, than GOM who calls..... IDRA??!?!??!? Seriously, GOM did the worst decision this time. haha the irony was lost on me until now. | ||
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GodZo
Italy224 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:43 BLinD-RawR wrote: idra maybe BM but he still shows professional behavior when he needs to, especially when playing in korea.. For sure... One Bunker... GG (in GSL)... Ragequit (out of Korea)... that is professional. | ||
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Biane
Australia645 Posts
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