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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people. Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. | ||
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:44 baoluvboa wrote: 6 Probes rush is really not a valid strategy. This point shouldn't really be argued. But people are arguing it when they say it's not a valid strategy. That suggest there are some arbitrary line where you go from valid strategy to unvalid. How do you judge this? People bring up his micro but micro is not strategy. What is a valid strategy? | ||
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:43 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: The problem here is that there are no rules that say "using only probes to attack" is not a valid starcraft strategy. Okay, you and everyone saying this KNOW you can never, ever win with a probe rush in a league higher than bronze. Does GOM really need to make a rule that says you can't throw matches? Cause that's what Nani did. Imagine if in the finals one of the players decided they had no chance to win, and just worker rushed every game. GOM spends how many thousands of dollars getting the venue, etc. just to have one person ruin the entire experience for everyone. You're not allowed to throw games in a professional league, it's disrespectful to the fans, your team, and the league that pays you to participate. | ||
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iglocska
Norway589 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:45 ZAiNs wrote: IMO that dude who worker rushed vs WhiteRa in LB twice at MLG (sorry I forgot your name) should be banned from MLG. Surely you can see the difference between wanting to fight your opponent on equal footing and not caring enough to play a game out? One is obviously a show of respect and the other the opposite. | ||
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deroth
United States83 Posts
On December 14 2011 18:44 TheExile19 wrote: ...are you serious? rofl there's so many things wrong with that comparison I refuse to even waste the time. OP's comparison is actually completely legit. I remember watching the games that day and being disgusted with IM literally throwing the match. It's the distinction between competing hard when it MATTERS and displaying superficial respect to viewers. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:42 GodZo wrote: Naniwa out, he is bm, than GOM who calls..... IDRA??!?!??!? Seriously, GOM did the worst decision this time. GOM called Sen. Good choice of player. | ||
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XRaDiiX
Canada1730 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:42 VoirDire wrote: "During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors" The problem is that what's offensive is completely arbitrary. Offense is not something "given", it's "taken". A person can choose to be offended by anything if he wants to, but you cant forcibly offend a person that does not choose not to take offense. This exact post explains exactly why its abhorrent and offensive and out-of-line and GomTV doesn't /Didn't have the grounds to punish NaNiwa for his actions.. Especially unprofessional critcism Mr Chae announces NaNiwa is an amateur prize money hunter. | ||
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DigitalisDestructi
United States488 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:45 Femari wrote: I want to hear the logic behind the people screaming racism. They kicked out a foreigner who threw a game and gave him a ban for GSL January. Then they gave two other foreigners free passes into Code S without having to do anything for it. Where's the racism? Maybe they think NaNiwa is whiter than the others?  | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:42 Junichi wrote: This fact makes the action by gom quite questionable. It seems like: "He broke a rule we just now created and which wasn't in the official rules until now." It didn't even needed to be written in the rulebook. This is the basic qualifications of a professional, which Naniwa failed to meet. GomTV wouldn't want to ruin their prestige by letting a non-professional play in their tournament. What GomTV did is more than justified. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:46 iglocska wrote: Surely you can see the difference between wanting to fight your opponent on equal footing and not caring enough to play a game out? One is obviously a show of respect and the other the opposite. The similarity I see is both were done because of bad tournament rules. | ||
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Phobbers
773 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:45 GodZo wrote: For sure... One Bunker... GG (in GSL)... Ragequit (out of Korea)... that is professional. He didn't leave on bad terms with GOM, hell GOM loved Idra. They even prepared a tribute video for him when he informed them he was heading on home to the states to participate in more tournaments over there. He didn't "rage quit" Korea. Stop making shit up to assist your argument. | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:46 casualman wrote: Kespa 2.0 has become a reality. It seems that stringent and unfair rules are a product of Korean culture in general rather than just of an isolated group of people. This is nothing close to KESPA. If this was KESPA, Naniwa would be gone for longer than a season. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:45 GodZo wrote: For sure... One Bunker... GG (in GSL)... Ragequit (out of Korea)... that is professional. Your opinion...... is not based....... on facts...... so....... uhhhhh? IdrA was extremely manner in GSL. Only two people have never GGed in GSL, and idra isn't one of them. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51701 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:46 casualman wrote: Kespa 2.0 has become a reality. It seems that stringent and unfair rules are a product of Korean culture in general rather than just of an isolated group of people. everytime I see someone call gom=kespa I just laugh man. | ||
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baoluvboa
743 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:46 Clearout wrote: A pro player is not an entertainer, he is not paid to entertain. He is paid to win, he provides us with entertainment by proxy of attempting to win. If the player has nothing to win, you can't demand entertainment as result, since entertainment is not what he is there for, nor what he is paid for. Quite a big difference. Sure a player can entertain with nothing on the line for the sake of fans, respect or whatever else, but you shouldn't punish someone for not doing something they are neither there for or paid to do, without making that rather explicitly clear in your rules and terms for the competition. Sport/competition is entertainment. All progamers are entertainers by playing the game for the audience. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:45 yosisoy wrote: I like the fact they're denying Naniwa his code S spot, while inviting Idra who did the same thing vs Jinro on Jungle Basin, except that match was friggin' important. By "like" I mean "think GSL management is ridiculous". I made a post before about this but i shall do it again. Please learn how to seperate 2 things in this argument. Action Intention Gom banned naniwa because IT WAS OBVIOUS HIS INTENTION WAS TO THROW THE GAME. THEY BANNED HIM CAUSE HE THREW THE GAME. NOT CAUSE HE WORKER RUSHED. IDRA worker rushed TO WIN. It was obvious, he was microing his best and it almost worked until jinro got lucky with his bunker. So stop comparing all these random actions, because you are missing the point of the argument and the matter. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:41 gruff wrote: So tell use what is a valid strategy and not then. What if he built a gateway, a zealot, boxed his probes and tried to micro? Useless strategy but a strategy. Are you saying 6-probe rush is a strategy? | ||
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Mietiex
Netherlands31 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:47 XRaDiiX wrote: This exact post explains exactly why its abhorrent and offensive and out-of-line and GomTV doesn't /Didn't have the grounds to punish NaNiwa for his actions.. Especially unprofessional critcism Mr Chae announces NaNiwa is an amateur prize money hunter. Totally true. This is what I wrote to GOMTV: Dear Gomtv, Banning Naniwa like this and the insulting words mr. Chae has spoken, has made me decide not to watch the GSL anymore and write this e-mail. First of all, you shouldn't make the rules so it can be so widely interpreted: During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours. Haven't we seen this many of times though, in different forms, by Korean players, in the GSL? Things like MC's thumbs down, or him bashing his fist on the player booth in GSTL. Not even mentioning the manner mules and Nexi. I think Gom has double standards and should either apply this rule to every player, or make the rules more specific, or (which has my preference) accept that this is part of gaming, emotions and stop worrying about insignificant things like a probe rush. I would rather see him throw away a game that is of no importance anymore, than dragging it out to a late, boring game. This is my opinion though and I am sure many other people think differently. However, if he would have done a 2 gate proxy or 4-gate, like many Koreans do when playing a meaningless game, it would have been acceptable to everyone. The fans and Gom need to accept that if a pro already lost a lot of games, is frustrated and wants to end the last meaningless game quickly they have the right to do so, or stop being damn hypocritical. Anyway, the dumb insulting remarks Mr. Chae made after handing out the ban was in my opinion way over the top and made me decide not to watch a show that has double standards and such an unprofessional CEO. Yours Truly, Piet van der Bijl The Netherlands. | ||
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iglocska
Norway589 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:47 ZAiNs wrote: The similarity I see is both were done because of bad tournament rules. To which the players agree when attending the tournament. | ||
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