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NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 193

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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.

Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
December 14 2011 15:37 GMT
#3841
On December 15 2011 00:35 XRaDiiX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.

This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances.


Again another Display of GomTVs Double Standards. They crossed the line on this decision completely.


Did you miss the 15 posts that refuted that post?
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
droxe
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany95 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 15:39:28
December 14 2011 15:37 GMT
#3842
On December 15 2011 00:33 dude_2 wrote:
i didn't read the whole thread. so sorry if someone has already written the same. but i am really wondering from the pages i have read, how people can argue there exists no throwing away of games in "real" sports. for example, it's pretty common in champions league (football) that already qualified teams send their b-team which is also a huge distortion of competition all the while other teams still playing for a spot.
anyone who has ever competed in sports knows that you don't play to your potential in a meaningless match and often don't make a real effort.
naniwa made it pretty obvious given that, but i as the audience can't blame him for that.


True, but it's not like the b-teamers aren't trying to at least show an entertaining game, even if the team is not playing to the best of its ability by sending its best. What Naniwa did is kind of like a sports team forfeiting a game by passing the ball to the enemy whole game or leaving the goal unguarded..
dormer
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1314 Posts
December 14 2011 15:37 GMT
#3843
On December 15 2011 00:33 Femari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:32 Elizar wrote:
On December 15 2011 00:15 iglocska wrote:
On December 15 2011 00:14 Shinespark wrote:
Ridiculous. Coca cheats and Naniwa just worker rushes in a game that doesn't even matter and they both get the same punishment?

At the very least it's likely that Nani is going to start playing by the book instead of being a "bad boy".


How was Coca cheating? He threw a game that he had nothing to gain from. You know, kinda like Nani.


Coca he threw the game to give his friend sth huge to gain: a possible coda-A spot.
nani got nothing, and guess what, nesta didn´t get anything as well
to compare that and give coca the better position is plain wrong!

There was no Code A spot to gain as has been stated millions of times before.

And even so CoCa got the worst punishment of the two so shouldn't even be complaining.


Wasn't there? The TL news post said Coca threw the game because of Code A, but I haven't checked other sources myself.

Coca was punished by his team, though, not by Gom. Gom took issue with the profanity in the chat, apparently, and to be fair they may well have punished him if the team hadn't, but no way to know in what way.
Artosis: "You need to hold my hand." Tasteless: "I'm very good at that."
sLiMpoweR
Profile Joined March 2009
United States430 Posts
December 14 2011 15:37 GMT
#3844
This is reduclious. How many foreiginer events have koreans lostgames on Purpose to avoid korean vrs korean kills. in my opinion thats hugly worse then naniwa throwing a meaningless game bwcause he was alresdy out of tourny. Koreans are porpously losing games to influence the results of tournaments. Sad day
Team aMg
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
December 14 2011 15:37 GMT
#3845
Expectation: The next time Naniwa plays vs a korean in a tournament, we'll get a "Where are your probes?" from the korean about 1 minute into the game.
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
December 14 2011 15:38 GMT
#3846
On December 15 2011 00:36 Jonoman92 wrote:
Are you fucking kidding me. This is absolutely ridiculous. Can't say I've ever spent a penny on any of the GSL subscriptions before now, but I definitely won't be anytime soon either.

I really hope they reconsider this. It's absolutely horrendous. How did he violate this rule?

Show nested quote +
During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors.


Like he said, if he'd 4-gated no one would've cared. It was a pointless game.Give me a break, with all the high-level sc2 being played nowadays it just isn't important.


Exactly what i've been trying to say they can't force him to do certain strategy. He chose to do 6 probe rush and that was his free will of choice to do for that game.

There is no rule where GomTV says you have to play a certain strategy or can/can't play certain strats
Never GG MKP | IdrA
theaxis12
Profile Joined March 2011
United States489 Posts
December 14 2011 15:38 GMT
#3847
1. GOM is a private league that can allow or deny anyone the right to play in their tournament.
2. Naniwa was an asshole who disrespected his opponent, the league and its place within the community, by throwing a match on the largest stage sc2 has to offer.
Therefore
3 Naniwa has no right to play in GSL

Good job GOM for enforcing a level of professionalism in what you are trying to make a legitimate sport.

However, i must say that perhaps it would just be best to cancel irrelevant matches in the future so this issue does not come up. I know the people want to see them anyways, but it only takes one player not valuing his fans to start all kinds of problems.

IMO MC had it right, lets look to White-ra for an example of how things should be done in e-sports. It just as much about winning as making GG for your fans.
Shut your mouth and put your head back in the clouds.
hALLE
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden19 Posts
December 14 2011 15:38 GMT
#3848
On December 15 2011 00:02 Clearout wrote:
Gah gonna post it here too:

GOM's rules do not say offending or abusive they say
"Displaying violent behaviors to threaten the opposing player or the audience."
So there are two possiblities:
1. Either they are doing this without basis in any of their rules, which makes it an very harsh punishment considering they can do this completely on their whims, basing it on their subjective opinion of a players behaviour.
2. The rule has been translated wrong or can be enterpreted differently in Korean. Which means they are using a rule which is not clear for a foreigner to throw out a punishment noone can expect for their actions, which is also not justifiable IMO.

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/64582


Quoting this to get people to talk about, didnt see any replies after it was posted. I think this is an excellent post. If the rule they say they are basing it on doesnt exist/is findable on their site this all seems very weird to me.
NHY
Profile Joined October 2010
1013 Posts
December 14 2011 15:38 GMT
#3849
On December 15 2011 00:29 Pholon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:25 Echo_ wrote:
This wouldn't have happened if he did what 99.9% of people would have done in his situation, which is to 4gate.


People need to stop saying this. Requiring a certain strategy of a player is the complete opposite of what SC is all about..


It requires a strategy.
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
December 14 2011 15:38 GMT
#3850
Was naniwa being paid $$$$ to participate in blizzard cup whether it be in the form of cash, gifts, travel expenses, living expenses, etc...? If he was, then he has an obligation to play the tournament games like a professional. If he wasnt, than ok I guess I could understand his protest however ill concieved. But if he was, than he seriously needs to reevalute his career choice and whether or not he is up to the task of carrying himself like a pro and not, as mr chae said perfectly, an 'ameteur prize hunter'.
JiPrime
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada688 Posts
December 14 2011 15:38 GMT
#3851
On December 15 2011 00:37 Tobberoth wrote:
Expectation: The next time Naniwa plays vs a korean in a tournament, we'll get a "Where are your probes?" from the korean about 1 minute into the game.


That's what my cousin in Korea was going to do! :D
poorcloud
Profile Joined April 2011
Singapore2748 Posts
December 14 2011 15:38 GMT
#3852
On December 15 2011 00:35 XRaDiiX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.

This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances.


Again another Display of GomTVs Double Standards. They crossed the line on this decision completely.



Why are people saying hero threw the game. Can they even deduce? Can they be 100% sure of it? What if hero just played badly?

However, we are 100% sure that Naniwa threw the game. So bad luck to him, but this world is about keeping up appearances.
So all those "keep up appearances are disgusting" people, please stop as i'm pretty sure thats what we all do everyday in our lives. If not, there will always be more conflict, thank you.
RaZaCGaming
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands4 Posts
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#3853
This is just ridiculous, is it because Korean honor gets offended so easy? i'm not sure. But banning someone for ending a game quickly with a fun twist is just outrageous. I mean i could understand this if the match would have been an important one but for this match? If this had happen on an MLG everyone would have laughed talked about it and be done with this. Cant say more about this.
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 15:39:29
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#3854
On December 15 2011 00:37 Femari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:35 XRaDiiX wrote:
On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.

This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances.


Again another Display of GomTVs Double Standards. They crossed the line on this decision completely.


Did you miss the 15 posts that refuted that post?


Choya didn't lose Code S he only got boot from GSTL bud. = Double Standard
Never GG MKP | IdrA
duckmaster
Profile Joined August 2011
687 Posts
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#3855
On December 15 2011 00:34 poorcloud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:33 Femari wrote:
On December 15 2011 00:32 Elizar wrote:
On December 15 2011 00:15 iglocska wrote:
On December 15 2011 00:14 Shinespark wrote:
Ridiculous. Coca cheats and Naniwa just worker rushes in a game that doesn't even matter and they both get the same punishment?

At the very least it's likely that Nani is going to start playing by the book instead of being a "bad boy".


How was Coca cheating? He threw a game that he had nothing to gain from. You know, kinda like Nani.


Coca he threw the game to give his friend sth huge to gain: a possible coda-A spot.
nani got nothing, and guess what, nesta didn´t get anything as well
to compare that and give coca the better position is plain wrong!

There was no Code A spot to gain as has been stated millions of times before.

And even so CoCa got the worst punishment of the two so shouldn't even be complaining.


This. People need to think before they post. And read up before they try to pass opinion as fact.


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ESV_TV_Korean_Weekly/Weekly_14

There is still prize money involved. Stop acting like their games were meaningless, because they were far from it.
hitpoint
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1511 Posts
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#3856
Too harsh imo. Though I am glad either Idra or Sen got his spot. I think they both have a better shot.
It's spelled LOSE not LOOSE.
iglocska
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway589 Posts
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#3857
On December 15 2011 00:36 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 00:36 azka wrote:
On December 15 2011 00:33 dude_2 wrote:
i didn't read the whole thread. so sorry if someone has already written the same. but i am really wondering from the pages i have read, how people can argue there exists no throwing away of games in "real" sports. for example, it's pretty common in champions league (football) that already qualified teams send their b-team which is also a huge distortion of competition all the while other teams still playing for a spot.
anyone who has ever competed in sports knows that you don't play to your potential in a meaningless match and often don't make a real effort.
naniwa made it pretty obvious given that, but i as the audience can't blame him for that.


Send your B team its one thing, but you will never see that B team do goals against their own team, which was what Naniwa did.

Um... what?


A lot of people here were arguing that a football team sending their B team to a match that has no value is the same as naniwa a-moving his probes into his opponents base.

The reality is that doing a standard all-in like a 4gate / well known 2 base timing would be equal to sending the B-team and the probe a-move is the same as the players being fielded just standing still for the duration of the match.
Apachesc2
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden5 Posts
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#3858
Lets just face it, what nani did was not good but what GOM did after was even worse imo.
Vardant
Profile Joined November 2010
Czech Republic620 Posts
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#3859
On December 15 2011 00:37 Kanaz wrote:
I agree with GOM TV. TBH i fully support their descision.
As MC mentioned, he is harming E sport. GSL and other big tournaments is only out there, because sponsors are willing to put some money in it. The sponsors care for the audience - and the audience do not approve Naniwa throwing games on purpose, just cause of his selfish thinking.

His selfish thinking actually was, that he didn't think he would be able to give his absolute best, so he would rather not play at all instead of disappointing his fans and audience even more.

I don't think Koreans bothered to translate his interview, where he explained it.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10700 Posts
December 14 2011 15:39 GMT
#3860
Why do people not see that:

Losing on purpose, which a 1 handed unmicroed properush is, is not the same as giving not 100%, that would be playing and outmicroing a proxygate or 4 gate or other cheesy/fast strategy... Even a 2 gate with all probes pulled would be ok WHEN microed.

What is not ok, is to try to lose asap. It's totally ok to punish that..
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