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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 00:07 CakeSauc3 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:57 GeNeSiDe wrote:On December 14 2011 23:53 Kryptic.610 wrote:On December 14 2011 23:37 Focuspants wrote:On December 14 2011 23:32 AJTeal wrote:
It truly saddens me to see what a HUGE step back e-sports has taken today. This is like the reseat that shows that E-sports will NEVER EVER grow into a real sport. So unprofessional banning someone for no reason just to let a player like IdrA in because EG has payed gomTV. And now, everyone suddenly changes their mind (seeing as idra has a huge fanbase, he's got the entire America behind him) and thinks this is a good decision just because IdrA got Naniwa's spot. It's like HuK said. People are always quick to say "this is killing e-sports". I think this is the first time you can legitimately say, this IS killing e-sports. Cheating and unprofessionalism- GomTV right there. The only thing that showed that Esports cant be taken seriously, is having what Naniwa did happen on live TV. Its embarrasing. If you did this as a professional anything, you would be blacklisted the hell out of the profession. Supporting Naniwas behaviour is completely counterproductive to what seems to be your goal, wnating Esports to be taken seriously. No not at all...when a basketball game is over the players stop trying and just dribble the ball and walk around for the last 20 seconds. Should they be banned for giving up when the outcome is clear? No, it is ridiculous. Thats so different as they have given their all for the entire game and usually this is preceeded by the fans either booing or just outright leaving the stadium early, en masse, in order to avoid the last 20 seconds of foul-timeout-foul-timeout. nani never even took the tipoff, he kicked the other center in the balls, hurled the basketball into the crowd, flipped off the refs and his team and said "fuck you!" No, this doesn't work. You can't compare an individual game of basketball to an individual game of Starcraft. This WAS the last 20 seconds of the match - Naniwa had already played his heart out, AND lost, and he was done. Nestea, same thing. If this were a game of basketball, it would be where both teams are somehow losing and neither can possibly win, so the one player shoots an air-ball and walks off the court as the buzzer sounds. The thing is, this simply hasn't happened in Sc2 before where someone has acted in (as far as basketball goes, anyway) completely normal fashion. This whole controversy just proves the difference between e-sports and sports - in sports. players giving up and leaving is normal. In e-sports, apparently it's the end of the world, or at least it's the end of that player's chances of performing in the league.
You can very easily compare this to Basketball, wtf.... How could you not see the easy comparison. People try to post on here as if they know sports and say that it's normal for teams to give up. "the last 20 seconds of a game the players just dribble until they lose" is a false statement. The winning team will dribble until they win, because it's strategy. It's like letting your opponent mine out while you have 2 running bases. It's a race against the clock, just maintain your position and you win. If you play aggressively and miss a basket and give your opponents a chance to score, then maybe you foul them by accident, then they steal for a 3 pointer, all of a sudden in 20 seconds, you went from +5 points to -1 points and lost. It's strategy to hold the ball, it's not strategy to throw games, thus it doesn't happen.
If a team is eliminated and won't make the playoffs, they still finish every game in the season. They never just NOT make an appearance and say "oh, we'll compete next season since we failed to qualify this year". If a team did that, they would be severely punished by the NBA. All the same, if a team showed up for the game, then sat down and let their opponents win 200-0, the team would once again, be severely punished by the NBA.
That's just something you DO NOT DO! It is completely disrespectful to the fans, the opposing team, the league you are competing in, and anyone/everyone who paid for tickets or spent time watching on TV.
NaNiWa did something THAT disrespectful.
You as an individual might not know what respect is, and you might be a complete jackass irl, but if you can't understand that respect is always takin into consideration in Korea, then you are a flatout moron, and you shouldn't even be allowed to think for yourself.
You not knowing even the first thing about Korea would be your only excuse. But still that would make you a moron.
For all the people who will protest and not buy GSL tickets, you are the same or worse than NaNiWa, because you are blatantly supporting an antisupportive movement in eSports. Seriously supporting an open act of protest against eSports as a profession, and you say you will support it by no longer supporting an eSports tournament that has full credibility? You're all idiots, and you are the reasons eSports is having a hard time growing.
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On December 15 2011 00:32 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:29 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 00:27 Kirazaki wrote:
I feel GOM went too far. Some sort of warning or a lesser punishment I could have understood, but this is ridiculous. Wont be buying any GSL season tickets for at least the next 6-12 months. I am not a huge Naniwa fan but this is ridiculous. It's a 1-month ban from competition. If anything, it's a slap on the wrist. Anyone who is against this decision needs to think again carefully, because they're looking like fools right now. Isn't it more like 2 months now with the new format? That is a lot.
Slap on both wrists then
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On December 15 2011 00:31 Mecker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances. Racism, blatantly. Boycotting GSL until we get an official apology from them.
What is wrong with this community? How does this even make sense?
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On December 15 2011 00:31 droxe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:29 Usagi wrote:On December 15 2011 00:17 azka wrote:
MGL earned Naniwa a spot in Blizz Cup, not in Code S.
GOM is choosing 2 foreigner seeds for their Jan Code S, one of them was Naniwa. Now, instead Naniwa they choose Sen. They aren't taking anything from Naniwa, simply they will invite someone else.
IMO, giving spots for code S to foreigners for free... its like saying "we know foreigners can't compete, but its good PR so we are giving them some spots".
Anyway, I'm ok with them not inviting Naniwa... honestly its a light punishment since Naniwa didn't earned that spot (I repeat, he earned the Blizz Cup spot from MLG, and just that), if you ask me... he deserves a temp ban, but w/e. In other hand I don't like they inviting Idra and Sen for free... but it's their tournament and anyway it will be fun to see Idra and Sen fighting Korean Terrans. Mlg also earned him a Code S seed because leenock was already code S Nope, he didn't, and Slasher even posted it on his Twitter.
And someone a few pages back posted MLG's site saying that it did earn him a Code S spot. Point being, there appears to have been confusion.
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On December 15 2011 00:29 Pholon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:25 Echo_ wrote:
This wouldn't have happened if he did what 99.9% of people would have done in his situation, which is to 4gate. People need to stop saying this. Requiring a certain strategy of a player is the complete opposite of what SC is all about.. 
But Naniwa wasn't really thinking about strategy at all. He just wanted to get over with that game.
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Too many whiners out here tonight. There are rules and regulations that need to be respected. If you dont, then you will face some sort of consequence.
The right decision has been made and its up to naniwa now to reflect on his folly. People being petty and throwing GOM to the gutters need to think how disrespectful naniwa was to the other players/viewers. NO room for DIVAS in this esports. There is a fine line between flirting with controversy and outright disrespectful. I'm afraid what happened was the latter.
QxG and Naniwa need to re-evaluate their operations.
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On December 15 2011 00:33 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:32 Elizar wrote:On December 15 2011 00:15 iglocska wrote:On December 15 2011 00:14 Shinespark wrote:
Ridiculous. Coca cheats and Naniwa just worker rushes in a game that doesn't even matter and they both get the same punishment?
At the very least it's likely that Nani is going to start playing by the book instead of being a "bad boy". How was Coca cheating? He threw a game that he had nothing to gain from. You know, kinda like Nani. Coca he threw the game to give his friend sth huge to gain: a possible coda-A spot. nani got nothing, and guess what, nesta didn´t get anything as well to compare that and give coca the better position is plain wrong! There was no Code A spot to gain as has been stated millions of times before. And even so CoCa got the worst punishment of the two so shouldn't even be complaining.
This. People need to think before they post. And read up before they try to pass opinion as fact.
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Good Job GSL imo, what Naniwa did was unacceptable.
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On December 15 2011 00:27 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:15 iglocska wrote:On December 15 2011 00:14 Shinespark wrote:
Ridiculous. Coca cheats and Naniwa just worker rushes in a game that doesn't even matter and they both get the same punishment?
At the very least it's likely that Nani is going to start playing by the book instead of being a "bad boy". How was Coca cheating? He threw a game that he had nothing to gain from. You know, kinda like Nani. Haha are you serious...? Coca himself no... But you know he threw it for another reason... Guess what that reason is and if that in any way changed an outcome in the competition. Nesta and Naniwa had NO chance whatsoever to change anything!
Whilst true that it did change the standings in the tournament for Byun, the argument I keep seeing is that Nani had nothing to gain, therefore it's cool to drop the game. The very same logic can be applied to Coca.
Also, I am not trying to justify why Coca did, what he did was utterly wrong, but I see no difference in what happened from each players' perspective. They both went into a game that had no effect on them and threw it.
Keep in mind that Coca's punishment is more severe than Nani's.
Edit: also, if it's true that there was no code A spot to gain from that tourney then that makes Coca's situation just even more trivial in comparison despite the more severe punishment.
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On December 15 2011 00:31 droxe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:29 Usagi wrote:On December 15 2011 00:17 azka wrote:
MGL earned Naniwa a spot in Blizz Cup, not in Code S.
GOM is choosing 2 foreigner seeds for their Jan Code S, one of them was Naniwa. Now, instead Naniwa they choose Sen. They aren't taking anything from Naniwa, simply they will invite someone else.
IMO, giving spots for code S to foreigners for free... its like saying "we know foreigners can't compete, but its good PR so we are giving them some spots".
Anyway, I'm ok with them not inviting Naniwa... honestly its a light punishment since Naniwa didn't earned that spot (I repeat, he earned the Blizz Cup spot from MLG, and just that), if you ask me... he deserves a temp ban, but w/e. In other hand I don't like they inviting Idra and Sen for free... but it's their tournament and anyway it will be fun to see Idra and Sen fighting Korean Terrans. Mlg also earned him a Code S seed because leenock was already code S Nope, he didn't, and Slasher even posted it on his Twitter.
Would have sworn they just continued giving the seeds in providence and that was the reason why aparently Haypro is going to play in up and downs :/
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On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances.
Again another Display of GomTVs Double Standards. They crossed the line on this decision completely.
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I still don't know how to delete my gomtv account. lol
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On December 15 2011 00:33 dude_2 wrote:
i didn't read the whole thread. so sorry if someone has already written the same. but i am really wondering from the pages i have read, how people can argue there exists no throwing away of games in "real" sports. for example, it's pretty common in champions league (football) that already qualified teams send their b-team which is also a huge distortion of competition all the while other teams still playing for a spot.
anyone who has ever competed in sports knows that you don't play to your potential in a meaningless match and often don't make a real effort.
naniwa made it pretty obvious given that, but i as the audience can't blame him for that.
Send your B team its one thing, but you will never see that B team do goals against their own team, which was what Naniwa did.
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On December 15 2011 00:34 Focuspants wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:31 Mecker wrote:On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances. Racism, blatantly. Boycotting GSL until we get an official apology from them. What is wrong with this community? How does this even make sense?
cause it isnt "killing esports" if their favourite players get to continue playing...
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On December 15 2011 00:32 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:29 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 00:27 Kirazaki wrote:
I feel GOM went too far. Some sort of warning or a lesser punishment I could have understood, but this is ridiculous. Wont be buying any GSL season tickets for at least the next 6-12 months. I am not a huge Naniwa fan but this is ridiculous. It's a 1-month ban from competition. If anything, it's a slap on the wrist. Anyone who is against this decision needs to think again carefully, because they're looking like fools right now. Isn't it more like 2 months now with the new format? That is a lot.
New format makes it easy for Code S players to fall down and easy for Code A/Code B to go up.
Naniwa can be in Code S for 2nd season of GSL in 2012.
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On December 15 2011 00:36 azka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:33 dude_2 wrote:
i didn't read the whole thread. so sorry if someone has already written the same. but i am really wondering from the pages i have read, how people can argue there exists no throwing away of games in "real" sports. for example, it's pretty common in champions league (football) that already qualified teams send their b-team which is also a huge distortion of competition all the while other teams still playing for a spot.
anyone who has ever competed in sports knows that you don't play to your potential in a meaningless match and often don't make a real effort.
naniwa made it pretty obvious given that, but i as the audience can't blame him for that. Send your B team its one thing, but you will never see that B team do goals against their own team, which was what Naniwa did.
Um... what?
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Are you fucking kidding me. This is absolutely ridiculous. Can't say I've ever spent a penny on any of the GSL subscriptions before now, but I definitely won't be anytime soon either.
I really hope they reconsider this. It's absolutely horrendous. How did he violate this rule?
During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors.
Like he said, if he'd 4-gated no one would've cared. It was a pointless game.Give me a break, with all the high-level sc2 being played nowadays it just isn't important.
edit: I hope anyone who was considering purchasing a subscription, and that anyone who has already paid immediately files for a refund. They aren't delivering the league that was planned, I don't see how they can legitimately deny a refund.
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On December 15 2011 00:35 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances. Again another Display of GomTVs Double Standards. They crossed the line on this decision completely.
i'm more convinced that you're just a troll, and i'm fairly sure you are
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I agree with GOM TV. TBH i fully support their descision.
As MC mentioned, he is harming E sport. GSL and other big tournaments is only out there, because sponsors are willing to put some money in it. The sponsors care for the audience - and the audience do not approve Naniwa throwing games on purpose, just cause of his selfish thinking.
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On December 15 2011 00:34 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote:
Too many whiners out here tonight. There are rules and regulations that need to be respected. If you dont, then you will face some sort of consequence.
The right decision has been made and its up to naniwa now to reflect on his folly. People being petty and throwing GOM to the gutters need to think how disrespectful naniwa was to the other players/viewers. NO room for DIVAS in this esports. There is a fine line between flirting with controversy and outright disrespectful. I'm afraid what happened was the latter.
QxG and Naniwa need to re-evaluate their operations. There are no rules or regulations against what Naniwa did, so what you are left with is they are banning him because he disrespected them. Which many people are upset about, understandibly.
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/64582
Edit: The rule clearly says "Displaying violent behaviors to threaten the opposing player or the audience", nothing there about offending. OP should definately be updated with this.
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EPT
