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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 00:26 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:24 price wrote:On December 15 2011 00:20 Oktyabr wrote:On December 15 2011 00:15 price wrote:On December 15 2011 00:12 Biane wrote:On December 15 2011 00:10 price wrote:
Naniwa gets this shit for a probe rush when we had to endure entire GSL seasons of bitbybit nonsense Bit by bit can actually win (some) games ya this is true, but if it's all about 1) abusive strategies or 2) offending the crowd / audience, then bitbybit should be executed The clause obviously doesn't talk about abusive strategies. Bitbybit was putting in his 110% effort and the evidence is shown by the number of games he has actually taken off people. He was actually behaving more professionally than Naniwa did in that one game. Probe rush is in no shape or form a strategy, not unless you can actually show someone hitting KR master league with the points required to attend the offline qualifiers with that alone. Naniwa had no strategy. It was pretty plain, and he didn't even try to disguise this. i dont think the two are all that different. scv marine all in basically ruins the game from my perspective. i don't really have any interest watching it. the same goes for a probe rush. naniwa had a strategy, but it was clearly a losing strategy because the game he was playing was meaningless. naniwa said that he could have 4gated too, but that strategy would have also been a waste of time ... But but most of the haters say it was correct because "The audience expected a good match and he let them down"... Then Bitbybit should be permabanned! Lets not be delusional about this, what bitbybit did was a strategy that had at least 1% probability of working. What naniwa did had 0% chance of working and thus could be seeing as throwing the game. I agree with Goms decision. Whether you believe the game matters or not isn't a choice for progammers to make. Its the people that's paying them.
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On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances.
choya is banned for 3 seasons, how is it "less shit" for it. What choya did wasn't even on live television, it is on LADDER
Nestea and Huk game was not a standard GSL match, it was a SHOWMATCH. where you are suppose to do weird funky stuff
I doubt HerO ever throws games. Did he send probes and proceed to afk?
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On December 15 2011 00:24 price wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:20 Oktyabr wrote:On December 15 2011 00:15 price wrote:On December 15 2011 00:12 Biane wrote:On December 15 2011 00:10 price wrote:
Naniwa gets this shit for a probe rush when we had to endure entire GSL seasons of bitbybit nonsense Bit by bit can actually win (some) games ya this is true, but if it's all about 1) abusive strategies or 2) offending the crowd / audience, then bitbybit should be executed The clause obviously doesn't talk about abusive strategies. Bitbybit was putting in his 110% effort and the evidence is shown by the number of games he has actually taken off people. He was actually behaving more professionally than Naniwa did in that one game. Probe rush is in no shape or form a strategy, not unless you can actually show someone hitting KR master league with the points required to attend the offline qualifiers with that alone. Naniwa had no strategy. It was pretty plain, and he didn't even try to disguise this. i dont think the two are all that different. scv marine all in basically ruins the game from my perspective. i don't really have any interest watching it. the same goes for a probe rush. naniwa had a strategy, but it was clearly a losing strategy because the game he was playing was meaningless. naniwa said that he could have 4gated too, but that strategy would have also been a waste of time ...
They are obviously different. 2 rax all-in requires effort. Probe rushing the way Naniwa did with 1 hand on the mouse and the other supporting his chin doesn't. The distinction was clear as hell.
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On December 15 2011 00:25 XRaDiiX wrote:
You don't get it he's allowed to probe rush if he wants GomTV can't force you to do any certain strategy.
GomTV has no grounds to punish him for probe rushing
If anything the Action taken on NaNiwa is a severe overreaction and i don't even like NaNiwa that much
Well, that's just it, probe rushing ain't a strategy, at least not in gold league or upper. He basically threw the game, which is exactly like saying "fuck you for inviting and paying me Gom, but i'm not in the mood to show you or the viewers a game so i'll just throw it"...
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This is an appropriate move by the GSL. Naniwa showed very bad manners to everyone, including the fans, and deserves to be punished. His cavalier attitude during interviews about his failure to play the match just made things worse for him.
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GOM could have handled this a little better. They certainly should have let everything settle down a bit before making such a harsh decision.
But having said that, Naniwa did behave in an unprofessional manner. It was a selfish decision ("I had nothing personally to gain, therefore I quit") - and it was a poor one. If you want to be taken seriously as a professional, you have to act like one. You have to do whats in the best interest of the people who are signing your checks. Every adult with a job understands this. Its not all about you - not when you are representing other people (team, sponsors, tournament, country, foreigners in general.)
Its unfortunate that Naniwa won't be able to participate in GSL code S - I think he is one of the foreigners with the best shots of doing well. But GOM drew a line in the sand, and hopefully it will put an end to this type of behavior..
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On December 15 2011 00:27 Kirazaki wrote:
I feel GOM went too far. Some sort of warning or a lesser punishment I could have understood, but this is ridiculous. Wont be buying any GSL season tickets for at least the next 6-12 months. I am not a huge Naniwa fan but this is ridiculous.
It's revoking Code S seed, so he'll just have to go through the qualifiers.
If anything, it's a slap on the wrist.
Anyone who is against this decision needs to think again carefully, because they're looking like fools right now.
EDIT: NOT 1 month ban, but Code S seed revoke
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On December 15 2011 00:17 azka wrote:
MGL earned Naniwa a spot in Blizz Cup, not in Code S.
GOM is choosing 2 foreigner seeds for their Jan Code S, one of them was Naniwa. Now, instead Naniwa they choose Sen. They aren't taking anything from Naniwa, simply they will invite someone else.
IMO, giving spots for code S to foreigners for free... its like saying "we know foreigners can't compete, but its good PR so we are giving them some spots".
Anyway, I'm ok with them not inviting Naniwa... honestly its a light punishment since Naniwa didn't earned that spot (I repeat, he earned the Blizz Cup spot from MLG, and just that), if you ask me... he deserves a temp ban, but w/e. In other hand I don't like they inviting Idra and Sen for free... but it's their tournament and anyway it will be fun to see Idra and Sen fighting Korean Terrans.
Mlg also earned him a Code S seed because leenock was already code S
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I'm amazed that so many people pretend that an unmicroed probe rush is a viable choice or strategy and not just a way to say fuck you gomtv for making me play this game even though I agreed to participate in your tournament knowing this might happen and took your money for it.
All this bullshit about not showing your best strategies and whatnot is absolutely nonsensical when he could have done anything instead of being an ass on purpose which he obviously was.
If he didnt have a history for this stuff maybe you could give him the benefit of the doubt although I would call that naive.
I dont hate Naniwa but seriously get real.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:25 Echo_ wrote:
This wouldn't have happened if he did what 99.9% of people would have done in his situation, which is to 4gate.
People need to stop saying this. Requiring a certain strategy of a player is the complete opposite of what SC is all about.. 
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On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances.
Thanks for pointing that out, most seem to just ignore everything else when it comes to drama around NaNiwa.
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On December 15 2011 00:20 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:05 NHY wrote:On December 14 2011 23:56 anomalopidae wrote:I do not understand this The agreement clearly states that he should be awarded Code S spot, it says so even on GOM page http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players. If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player. All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by the GSL. Keep reading and you'll find this GSL Pro Players Competing on the MLG Pro Circuit
-MLG will invite four Korean pro players to each Pro Circuit Live Competition.
-These players will be placed directly into the Championship Pools, one into each Pool.
-Their placement in the Pools will be determined by their GSL rank.
-All travel and accomodation expenses for these players will be provided by MLG.
-For MLG Columbus, we will also be inviting a player from the CSN tournament, currently in progress. This player will be seeded into the Open Bracket, and their travel and accomodation expenses will be covered by CSN. Did that also happen in Providence? No. So there was no MLG-GSL exchange in Providence. How can so many people miss this? You'd know just from reading it that it is impossible to apply it to providence since there are no championship pools, Yes please continue to ignore all other proof that this was the case while basing your opinion on a press release that obviously is not indepth enough. One doesn't exclude the other.
That "press release" is what everyone refers to 'the rule.' I didn't point that as the golden rule. Others did and I'm simply telling them to read the entire thing.
If by "all other proof" you mean how some people were saying that Naniwa got Code S?
How about GOM saying that it didn't apply? Oh wait, they are lying cheating bastards so it doesn't count.
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On December 15 2011 00:28 Shortynut wrote:
Put yourself in the position which Naniwa and Nestea both faced; Playing their final match each after losing 3 previous matches and effectively being knocked out of the entire competition BEFORE the last game is even finished. Do you really think either of these guys were going to play even 20% as well as if they were 3-0 playing for first position? NO!!! So don't start bitching about NaNi being unsportsmanlike or 'not dedicated to the fans' because his morale was completely shattered by a piece of shit comp format that results in a final match to determine who walks away with 0 wins.
Not to mention the fact that everyone who actually watched the live stream was treated to an extended group stage featuring 3 top players, I really think any proper rematch between NaNi and Nestea given the circumstance would've been far worse than this.
Nestea said on his twitter he was looking forward with his rematch game with naniwa that he spent whole day practicing, despite during his birthday.
he was extremely upset on his twitter for what Naniwa did. You can tell the difference between a true professional gamer and just another kid
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On December 15 2011 00:28 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances. choya is banned for 3 seasons, how is it "less shit" for it. What choya did wasn't even on live television, it is on LADDER Nestea and Huk game was not a standard GSL match, it was a SHOWMATCH. where you are suppose to do weird funky stuff I doubt HerO ever throws games. Did he send probes and proceed to afk?
choya banned for 3 seasons? i never heard of this. i only knew he was banned for 1 GSTL season
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On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances.
1. Choya was banned for a while for that.
2. Nestea was playing in an All-Star match that wasn't even a tournament and there was no money on the line. HuK took it seriously while in prior matches in the All-Star thing MKP had reverted to being Clare and MC was off racing as well as LosirA. That was something was blatantly not to be taken seriously.
3. Show me absolute proof HerO threw the match instead of attempting to win or shut up with ridiculous accusations.
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On December 15 2011 00:28 Beavo wrote:
Completely deserving. If starcraft ever wants to be taken seriously as a competitive sport or E-Sport, we need to get garbage like this out of the game. 100 % agree with what GSL did.
If starcraft ever wants to be taken seriously, it needs to stand on its own feet, without artificial rules preventing you from "not wanting to win enough"...
And as for entertainment; ‘if you want entertainment go and watch clowns’ as Alan Durban said...
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On December 15 2011 00:28 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances. 1. what choya did was on ladder but he still got punished for this. It wasn't even in an official tournament like byun/coca 2. Not playing seriously and throwing a game are two different things. 3. Hero just got owned tbh lol..I'm pretty sure no one wants to go 0-4.
Hero played like crap after losing first games. He was tilted and so was Naniwa.
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On December 15 2011 00:29 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:27 Kirazaki wrote:
I feel GOM went too far. Some sort of warning or a lesser punishment I could have understood, but this is ridiculous. Wont be buying any GSL season tickets for at least the next 6-12 months. I am not a huge Naniwa fan but this is ridiculous. It's a 1-month ban from competition. If anything, it's a slap on the wrist. Anyone who is against this decision needs to think again carefully, because they're looking like fools right now.
it's not even a ban if i understand it correctly. they just didn't invite him. MLG didn't get him a spot, but he was likely going to invited.
he can from what i understand play in the next Code A qualifiers and climb up.
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On December 15 2011 00:21 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:17 NHY wrote:On December 15 2011 00:14 nam nam wrote:If MLG providence didn't offer a Code S spot then MLG must be very confused themselves... On December 15 2011 00:03 SnoLys wrote:From MLG own site news: http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascensionUltimately he dropped the following four games, and despite not being crowned champion, Naniwa has presented one of the most captivating weeks imaginable, both in and out of the game. In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/going-out-with-a-bang-mlg-providence-starcraft-2-recapOver the last few months, Naniwa has been training hard over in Korea to take his game to the next level, and his hard work appeared to pay off in Providence. The 2nd Place finish was good enough to earn him a Code S spot, so keep an eye on this MLG Champion as he goes toe-to-toe with the world's best during the offseason. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/top-5-stories-from-mlg-providenceNaniwa, however, stayed focused on his goal. Amidst swirls of tabloid drama and misguided quotes, Naniwa kept his concentration on the task at hand. When his turn to enter the bracket finally rolled around, the Swedish Protoss defeated Nestea for the second time that weekend, and followed the feat with wins over Huk and DongRaeGu. In the end Naniwa failed to seal the deal as he lost four straight games against Leenock in the Grand Finals, but appeared to be a man with a renewed determination and a refined playstyle. With the pedigree Naniwa displayed over the weekend, it's hard not to be excited about Naniwa's 2012 prospects in Code S and at Major League Gaming Events. Edit: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programPro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, within the Top 3, regardless of country of origin, who does not already have Code S status.
Code S status will not be awarded if all of the players placing 1st-3rd already have Code S Status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next three highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, or not awarded at all, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
Edit2: From Complexity, his team at the time: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3270/Be sure to watch the GSL's Code S tournament as Naniwa secured himself a spot thanks to the MLG/GSL exchange program. http://esfiworld.com/sc2/news/naniwa-secures-top-3-finish-victory-over-hukNaniwa was able to secure a huge victory and guarantee at least a Top 3 finish in Providence. That placement will gives him a chance to secure Code S and continues the run of world class players that Naniwa has defeated over the course of the championship weekend in Providence. We didn't even know at that point that there would be Code S in 2012. This is before GSL format was finalized for 2012. What about the Code A spots then? By the same logic, we didn't know, there would be Code A in 2012, but they are valid anyway.
No they aren't.
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On December 15 2011 00:26 tlin wrote:
Choya wintraded and got less shit for it.
NesTea admitted not playing seriously against HuK and losing for it.
HerO threw a game against DRG just two days ago.
This has nothing to do with "honor" and everything to do with keeping up appearances.
Racism, blatantly. Boycotting GSL until we get an official apology from them.
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EPT
