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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
I do believe some blame lies on GOM for the flaws in their format, and because of it Naniwa was in a sub-optimal situation. But of course like always, he manages to make the absolute worst of it so I have a hard time feeling sorry for him to be honest.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50749 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:17 Marvid wrote:What about a poll on this since the discussion goes in circles? Poll: What is the main source of the problem?GOM's handling of the punishment (announcment etc)? (79) 56% Naniwas behaviour (not caring)? (45) 32% Tournament format? (9) 6% Naniwas tactic (would a 4gate been different)? (8) 6% 141 total votes Your vote: What is the main source of the problem? (Vote): Naniwas behaviour (not caring)?
(Vote): Naniwas tactic (would a 4gate been different)?
(Vote): Tournament format?
(Vote): GOM's handling of the punishment (announcment etc)?
unfortunately its naniwa because I don't think the argument of the tournment format could apply because no one can foresee what kind of behavior he had.
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On December 15 2011 00:18 Biane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:16 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 00:13 xsnac wrote:
To force players to play is way TOO COMUNIST .
you cant force people to play games . if they throw games is just lose for them nothing more .
Rly naniwa put a lot of effort in qualifying for blizzard cup and whatever he wants to do with his hard work is his right . if he wanna throw away all games FINE HE ALREDY WORKED HARD ENOUGH TO GET THOSE GAMES IS HIS RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO WITH THEM .
Is like buying a car and the state will force you only to drive " no you cant set on fire your car you cant do anything else then just drive it " . rly ?
GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU " FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY " lets go back to comunism .
forcing people to have respect to the organizer is being communist now? and your analogy is so wrong. GOM is naniwa's boss, what he did is essentially flip his finger at his boss. I guess its also communist to fire people so now gomtv is communist in addition to being racist T_T. oh god what next? facist?
Elitist? 
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On December 15 2011 00:18 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:14 IplayTerran wrote:
So he got punished for breaking what rule?I can't seem to find the rule he broke on either the korean gom.tv side or the english one.But well,they would have pulled out a rule out of nowhere just to punish him I guess. he got banned for being unprofessional,also I believe he can compete in Code A....or at least that what I heard from this thread about over a 100 pages ago..
yup i think so, too. i just don't know how his reputation will be like now. let's see what he'll do.
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On December 15 2011 00:16 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:13 mordk wrote:On December 15 2011 00:03 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 23:59 mordk wrote:On December 14 2011 23:55 XRaDiiX wrote:I thought people should see this good post from someone earlier shows how GomTV is picking favourites here and displaying double standards. Why does NaNiwa get banned for something that there wasn't even a definite rule on banning people for probe rushes it's not about him winning or losing with it and to boot the game didn't have any relevance whether he won or lost. He was obviously on tilt/angry after playing 3 games that he almost won. So NaNiwa had no reason to play his best in the last game except for showmanship; He even said he was sorry for it in his interview. Etc Completely unprofessional actions from GomTV On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" 1.-*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more. Ridiculous. Meant to please the audience, there's nothing in common between these and Nani's "play" yesterday. 2.-*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over. Same thing. Nothing to see here 3.-*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around. Speculative, unfounded, and most likely false. 4.-*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything? No they haven't so, like you say, it's likely GOM would have done something. Can't say for certain though, so again, pure speculation. So how exactly is rushing with probes worse than BM'ing your opponent? You're being short sighted... you need to separate 2 things: -Koreans feel offended by this behaviour because they believe competition involves a degree of honor and all that. That's their culture and it's fine (I kind of agree on this point, but I'm not as strict about it). NesTea was probably dissapointed, some fans (me, for example) were dissapointed, the whole point of the tournament (showmatches, no matter if there's money involved, this cup is intended as a "celebration of starcraft") was mocked at. -Rushing with probes in this situation, context, and manner (IE, not a valid strategy, since he just wanted to lose), is in violation of what nani was being paid to do, to participate in the tournament and play every match out. Why play every match? You could ask, the answer is that the format is laid down to you before the tournament starts. If nani didn't agree with the possibility of meaningless matches, he could have talked to GOM about it, or plainly rejected the invitation. By entering the tournament, he agrees and validates the format, no matter how flawed it could be. By keeping this two things in mind, it becomes very evident why GOM went with this punishment. First of all, he denied customers of a match, he "disgraced" his opponent, and he mocked the tournament structure (keep in mind this is interpretating facts, most likely what happened here). Second, GOM has a duty as an entertainment provider towards its customers. Korean customers would have felt insulted if GOM had done nothing. Personally, I think the punishment is excessive, particularly considering things like MC's booth bashing (which I agree was bad), which means there's some inconsistency at play too, but overall, I think GOM is right to "punish" (Disregarding the whole MLG thing and whether his spot was secured or not) nani, considering all the facts. Naniwa even says he is sorry about this in an interview after GomTV is being unprofessional about this and revoke his Code S Spot for using an 'Cheese' Strategy it doesn't matter if the strategy he used was offensive it was still a strategy he decided to do playing the game with whatever cheese he deemed viable. Even if he could not possibly win with it he still chose to play that way; Where in the rules does it say you have to play a certain strategy?Also Mr Chae being unprofessional calling NaNiwa amatuer prize money hunter
Again, it's not about the strategy. Naniwa could as well have hit F10 and quit as the game started and it would be the exact same situation. Naniwa wasn't playing the game, he didn't want to play it, so he chose not to. The way he chose to do that is completely ridiculous, which is what I find so strange, why would anyone in the world do that? Just forfeit before the game starts if you're feeling too bad to play.
He didn't choose to play that way, he chose NOT to play, and chose that way of "not playing"
I agree Mr. Chae was way out of line slandering him like that in Twitter. It's unproffesional.
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Stupid decision by Gom. Will stop watching GSL from now on.
They shouldn't make the rules so it can be so widely interpreted: During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours. Haven't we seen this many of times though, in different forms, in the GSL? I think Gom has double standards and should either apply this rule to every player or (which has my preference) make the rules more specific. Anyway, the dumb insulting remarks Chae made after handing out the ban was in my opinion way over the top and made me decide not to watch a show that has such a shortsighted, insulting CEO.
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lol wow, almost 200 pages, and this was posted after I went to sleep? shit. I'm glad that GOM decided on this, hopefully it will allow NaNi to think about how his behavior affects others, grats to Sen!
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:19 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:18 Darneck wrote:On December 15 2011 00:15 iglocska wrote:On December 15 2011 00:14 Shinespark wrote:
Ridiculous. Coca cheats and Naniwa just worker rushes in a game that doesn't even matter and they both get the same punishment?
At the very least it's likely that Nani is going to start playing by the book instead of being a "bad boy". How was Coca cheating? He threw a game that he had nothing to gain from. You know, kinda like Nani. Read what you just said again, HE had nothing to gain but the other player did... In the nani case, neither nestea or nani had anything to gain. And cheat was never the correct word choice. Okay what did Byun have to gain? The non-existant Code A spot that everyone seems to not realize wasn't on the line because there was no deal for Code A spots for 2012 yet?
Money?
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Displaying violent behaviors to threaten the opposing player or the audience.
I'm sorry but pulling 6 probes in a half-arsed attempt to throw the game with a pre-emptive sub-Bronze League tactic is not equivalent to "As soon as you get out of the booth, I am going to fucking slit your throat."
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On December 15 2011 00:19 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:18 Darneck wrote:On December 15 2011 00:15 iglocska wrote:On December 15 2011 00:14 Shinespark wrote:
Ridiculous. Coca cheats and Naniwa just worker rushes in a game that doesn't even matter and they both get the same punishment?
At the very least it's likely that Nani is going to start playing by the book instead of being a "bad boy". How was Coca cheating? He threw a game that he had nothing to gain from. You know, kinda like Nani. Read what you just said again, HE had nothing to gain but the other player did... In the nani case, neither nestea or nani had anything to gain. And cheat was never the correct word choice. Okay what did Byun have to gain? The non-existant Code A spot that everyone seems to not realize wasn't on the line because there was no deal for Code A spots for 2012 yet?
Byun did have something to gain! Why else do you think Coca would have done it and got punished for it?
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On December 15 2011 00:17 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:14 nam nam wrote:If MLG providence didn't offer a Code S spot then MLG must be very confused themselves... On December 15 2011 00:03 SnoLys wrote:From MLG own site news: http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascensionUltimately he dropped the following four games, and despite not being crowned champion, Naniwa has presented one of the most captivating weeks imaginable, both in and out of the game. In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/going-out-with-a-bang-mlg-providence-starcraft-2-recapOver the last few months, Naniwa has been training hard over in Korea to take his game to the next level, and his hard work appeared to pay off in Providence. The 2nd Place finish was good enough to earn him a Code S spot, so keep an eye on this MLG Champion as he goes toe-to-toe with the world's best during the offseason. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/top-5-stories-from-mlg-providenceNaniwa, however, stayed focused on his goal. Amidst swirls of tabloid drama and misguided quotes, Naniwa kept his concentration on the task at hand. When his turn to enter the bracket finally rolled around, the Swedish Protoss defeated Nestea for the second time that weekend, and followed the feat with wins over Huk and DongRaeGu. In the end Naniwa failed to seal the deal as he lost four straight games against Leenock in the Grand Finals, but appeared to be a man with a renewed determination and a refined playstyle. With the pedigree Naniwa displayed over the weekend, it's hard not to be excited about Naniwa's 2012 prospects in Code S and at Major League Gaming Events. Edit: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programPro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, within the Top 3, regardless of country of origin, who does not already have Code S status.
Code S status will not be awarded if all of the players placing 1st-3rd already have Code S Status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next three highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, or not awarded at all, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
Edit2: From Complexity, his team at the time: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/3270/Be sure to watch the GSL's Code S tournament as Naniwa secured himself a spot thanks to the MLG/GSL exchange program. http://esfiworld.com/sc2/news/naniwa-secures-top-3-finish-victory-over-hukNaniwa was able to secure a huge victory and guarantee at least a Top 3 finish in Providence. That placement will gives him a chance to secure Code S and continues the run of world class players that Naniwa has defeated over the course of the championship weekend in Providence. We didn't even know at that point that there would be Code S in 2012. This is before GSL format was finalized for 2012.
What about the Code A spots then?
By the same logic, we didn't know, there would be Code A in 2012, but they are valid anyway.
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On December 15 2011 00:18 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:14 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 00:09 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 00:08 noaki wrote:
I don't care if his spot is revoked, don't like him anyway, but if you probe rush or instead play some random all-in just to get over the game is pretty much the same, don't see how this is more offensive then just a lousy 4gate. And imo manner mules etc are way more bm than this. This..... i still don't understand how people think GomTV has ground to revoke his Code S invite when probe rushing is no different than Bombers Manner Mules... or MC's Taunts... GOM can deny whoever they want. Code S is a privelage, not a right. You fuck up then you lose it. Naniwa threw a game which he himself agreed to play. He in turn made himself look bad in addition to making GOM look bad for having him in the tournament. You throw a game, you're punished. It's how the world should be. Probe rushing =/= throwing game Its just a Cheesy Strategy.
If you honestly think literally selecting all your probes, a-moving them to nestea's main, and taking your hands off the keyboard is him playing a legitimate strategy then you don't know much about SC2.
Oh and Naniwa said he threw the game so your attempt at making a point is irrelevant.
On December 15 2011 00:21 Zorgaz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:19 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 00:18 Darneck wrote:On December 15 2011 00:15 iglocska wrote:On December 15 2011 00:14 Shinespark wrote:
Ridiculous. Coca cheats and Naniwa just worker rushes in a game that doesn't even matter and they both get the same punishment?
At the very least it's likely that Nani is going to start playing by the book instead of being a "bad boy". How was Coca cheating? He threw a game that he had nothing to gain from. You know, kinda like Nani. Read what you just said again, HE had nothing to gain but the other player did... In the nani case, neither nestea or nani had anything to gain. And cheat was never the correct word choice. Okay what did Byun have to gain? The non-existant Code A spot that everyone seems to not realize wasn't on the line because there was no deal for Code A spots for 2012 yet? Byun did have something to gain! Why else do you think Coca would have done it and got punished for it?
Coca did it cause he's immature just like Naniwa. He was punished because when you throw games you get punished for it. And Byun had nothing much to gain. Coca didn't want to play the next opponent so he foolishly pulled that stunt. Like a kid. He was rightfully punished for it.
And what did Byun have to gain? Tell me.
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On December 15 2011 00:20 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 00:14 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 00:09 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 00:08 noaki wrote:
I don't care if his spot is revoked, don't like him anyway, but if you probe rush or instead play some random all-in just to get over the game is pretty much the same, don't see how this is more offensive then just a lousy 4gate. And imo manner mules etc are way more bm than this. This..... i still don't understand how people think GomTV has ground to revoke his Code S invite when probe rushing is no different than Bombers Manner Mules... or MC's Taunts... GOM can deny whoever they want. Code S is a privelage, not a right. You fuck up then you lose it. Naniwa threw a game which he himself agreed to play. He in turn made himself look bad in addition to making GOM look bad for having him in the tournament. You throw a game, you're punished. It's how the world should be. Probe rushing =/= throwing game Its just a Cheesy Strategy. probe rushing is throwing away games. There is not a single thing you can beat with a 6 probe rush, and with zero micro at that.
So you're saying NaNiwa is not allowed to choose his strategy? You want GOM to force him to use certain strategies?
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On December 15 2011 00:13 xsnac wrote:
To force players to play is way TOO COMUNIST .
you cant force people to play games . if they throw games is just lose for them nothing more .
Rly naniwa put a lot of effort in qualifying for blizzard cup and whatever he wants to do with his hard work is his right . if he wanna throw away all games FINE HE ALREDY WORKED HARD ENOUGH TO GET THOSE GAMES IS HIS RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO WITH THEM .
Is like buying a car and the state will force you only to drive " no you cant set on fire your car you cant do anything else then just drive it " . rly ?
GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU " FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY " lets go back to comunism .
Communist wtf? Some of the responses on this thread are staggering and face-palm inducing.
Professional sports league all around the world will punish/ban athletes for not playing out a game even if that game did not matter.
GOM had the right to withdraw the spot from Naniwa. It was an invitation. Its not like Naniwa qualified for code S.
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On December 15 2011 00:20 DigitalisDestructi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:18 Biane wrote:On December 15 2011 00:16 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 00:13 xsnac wrote:
To force players to play is way TOO COMUNIST .
you cant force people to play games . if they throw games is just lose for them nothing more .
Rly naniwa put a lot of effort in qualifying for blizzard cup and whatever he wants to do with his hard work is his right . if he wanna throw away all games FINE HE ALREDY WORKED HARD ENOUGH TO GET THOSE GAMES IS HIS RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO WITH THEM .
Is like buying a car and the state will force you only to drive " no you cant set on fire your car you cant do anything else then just drive it " . rly ?
GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU " FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY " lets go back to comunism .
forcing people to have respect to the organizer is being communist now? and your analogy is so wrong. GOM is naniwa's boss, what he did is essentially flip his finger at his boss. I guess its also communist to fire people so now gomtv is communist in addition to being racist T_T. oh god what next? facist? Elitist?
i think elitist was mentioned earlier by someone too but i cbb to browse through it
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On December 15 2011 00:19 Slanina wrote:
He offended us, the fans, and he offended the GSL and its tradition. Naniwa simply doesnt have the mindset and the spirit of a champion yet. When he stops behaving like a child, he will stop being treated like one. Simple and easy.
Still not a good enough reason to take away his seed
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Cya, and awesome to have Sen in.
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On December 15 2011 00:12 iglocska wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:08 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okey this topic is getting me seriously pissed. First every native English speaking person that uses his better English as an argument for his superior intellect should be ashamed of himself. To boast about talking your native language is like being proud of your ability to walk. Do you laugh at persons in wheel chairs as well? Seriously, fucking sad.
Secondly the fact that I cannot say something because I am Swedish and thus “Swedish retard FANBOY” makes me want to choke someone. Because if HuK had done this I would be all for it.
“Fuck yeah, ban that fucking Canadian 4life!”. Or maybe not? Maybe I don’t like it because it is unfair?
The only reason Naniwa got banned was because he did this in Korea and secondly he did something that players do all the time just in a more obvious way. Naniwa got banned for doing a probe rush instead of a cannon rush. I don’t think that is a good reason to get banned.
The only error Naniwa did was not realizing that the Koreans would react this way, he could have forfeited 2 min later in a less obvious way and saved himself from this.
If you think Naniwa should be banned from GSL then you should mail Assembly and Dreamhack to ban Stephano, cause he has done the same twice. Shouldn’t even start talking about IdrA, you get banned for things that might be seen as disrespectful to other players? Hell IdrA should get a global ban from SC2 for life.
I don't get why people can't tell the difference between a-moving all your probes and letting go of your mouse / keyboard and doing a quick high risk but high reward all in like a cannon rush / 4 gate.
Naniwa did not care if he lost or won a pointless match. I would not care either. And yes you need to be in platinum to pull of a decent 4-gate so I guess he could have done that instead. But yes the difference is that it is less obvious, which is apparently what´s matters for everyone.
I dont get that. I guess that lesson Naniwa should learn from this is to forfeit in less obvious ways cause it is apparently a huge deal for the SC2 community.
I
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On December 15 2011 00:18 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:14 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 00:09 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 00:08 noaki wrote:
I don't care if his spot is revoked, don't like him anyway, but if you probe rush or instead play some random all-in just to get over the game is pretty much the same, don't see how this is more offensive then just a lousy 4gate. And imo manner mules etc are way more bm than this. This..... i still don't understand how people think GomTV has ground to revoke his Code S invite when probe rushing is no different than Bombers Manner Mules... or MC's Taunts... GOM can deny whoever they want. Code S is a privelage, not a right. You fuck up then you lose it. Naniwa threw a game which he himself agreed to play. He in turn made himself look bad in addition to making GOM look bad for having him in the tournament. You throw a game, you're punished. It's how the world should be. Probe rushing =/= throwing game Its just a Cheesy Strategy.
But his intent to throw the game is clear, IMO. That gif posted earlier in the thread reveals quite a bit.
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On December 15 2011 00:22 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:20 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 00:18 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 00:14 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 00:09 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 00:08 noaki wrote:
I don't care if his spot is revoked, don't like him anyway, but if you probe rush or instead play some random all-in just to get over the game is pretty much the same, don't see how this is more offensive then just a lousy 4gate. And imo manner mules etc are way more bm than this. This..... i still don't understand how people think GomTV has ground to revoke his Code S invite when probe rushing is no different than Bombers Manner Mules... or MC's Taunts... GOM can deny whoever they want. Code S is a privelage, not a right. You fuck up then you lose it. Naniwa threw a game which he himself agreed to play. He in turn made himself look bad in addition to making GOM look bad for having him in the tournament. You throw a game, you're punished. It's how the world should be. Probe rushing =/= throwing game Its just a Cheesy Strategy. probe rushing is throwing away games. There is not a single thing you can beat with a 6 probe rush, and with zero micro at that. So you're saying NaNiwa is not allowed to choose his strategy? You want GOM to force him to use certain strategies?
you're just being silly now. There is no strategy involves, he simply gives up and not care
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EPT
