EPTI'm going to go back to playing my MOBA of choice, Dota 2.
MOBA: Why you should not use it. - Page 5
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
I'm going to go back to playing my MOBA of choice, Dota 2. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
I knew all of that stuff about Hunter already, since I was involved in the LoL/HoN betas as well. The conclusion: who fucking cares? He popularized the term and he's a scammer, oh noes. If you found out that the term RTS was popularized by someone who robbed grandmas of their medicare money, would you stop using it? Probably not. The funniest thing to me about your entire post is that you start it out by saying that the term was coined by Guinsoo, NOT Hunter. Guinsoo is a fine man, so what's your problem in using a term that he created? This fact seems to contradict the entirety of the rest of your post. | ||
CountChocula
Canada2068 Posts
On October 28 2011 13:45 mordk wrote: It is, but your point is wrong. Tetris is not an RTS, RTS is defined by commanding "units" against an opponent in a real time scenario, since tetris doesn't have an opponent (AI or human), it can't be considered an RTS. RPG involves playing a specific character from a "personal" perspective and directly determining its actions and relationships in the game world. Playing the "commander" role of an army from a standard RTS point doesn't fit the genre. MMO? It is actually defined not by the absolute amount of players, but by the amount of players in a persistent, single server. Millions of people will play Diablo 3, and that doesn't make it an MMO because it's not a single, persistent server or world, but is rather played on different ones. MOBA, on the other hand, has no real definition, and can pretty much describe anything. It's a bad term. But don't you realize what you're doing? You're saying "RTS is defined by commanding units against an opponent in a real time scenario", which is giving it a "connotation" that goes beyond the simple "definition" of Real Time Strategy. Ganfei was being facetious by taking the term at face value and including Tetris under the RTS category pointing out that Tetris also happens in real time and involves strategy. Most people who try to argue the point that MOBA can include games like Starcraft or WoW are doing the same thing Ganfei is doing except Ganfei is actually aware what he (implicit assumption since we are on the internet) is doing is ridiculous—namely taking MOBA at its definition (and ignoring any possible connotation), but holding terms like RTS and FPS to a way looser standard. OT: Let sleeping ghosts lie. In 10 years time, no one will remember the term was coined by a no-name scammer. At best, it will be noted down as an interesting anecdote somewhere. | ||
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ragingfungus
United States271 Posts
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Dr_Strange
United States80 Posts
On October 28 2011 04:39 paper wrote: It blows my mind that people use MOBA to describe a genre when it could describe any game. It's like renouncing every noun in the dictionary and using the word "thing" to describe anything and everything. This is the worst excuse someone could give. Its like saying all game can be called shoot'em up, even though shoot'em up is a distinct genre of games. It can be extended to music where you can say all sad music should be called blues. It doesn't make sense. When you hear MOBA or you hear shmup, you know exactly the type of game you are talking about. | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
LOL/HON/DOTA are not the same why do we need to classify then together. | ||
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LaoShuAiDaMi
United States88 Posts
Whatever the term meant originally, what it NOW means to the vast majority of people (espeically those who aren't as integrated in the scene such as idk...potential sponsors) IS the "dota genre" Language changes and it means what the majority wants it to mean. To complain about something as trivial as this now smacks of elitism and is not what people should subscribe to if they want this marginal scene to become an "e-sport | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
This isn't really an ad hom argument - I don't care that he was a pedophile. I care that he did almost everything he could to damage the moba community, and his term "moba" is still being used. It's like a far right guy coming up with the term climate change instead of global warming (which fits closer to his agenda). I've always been a fan of RPRTS - it's an rts based on role-playing game's mechanics, that effectively uses this mechanics in a real time simulation that creates a strategy game based upon a flow of time. It's hard to come up with a similar example for teamliquid as there aren't many infamous users who still post. Basically, imagine if the person who wrote a really negative article on esports coined a new term for it (like f-sports (fake-sports) and then everyone in popular media started using that term instead of e-sports). | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
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5-s
United States1674 Posts
Yes, using very generic definitions, many games could be called "real time strategy", but the whole point of categorizing things is to separate things from other things. Real time describes the time and control intensive nature of this type of strategy game; turn based is another kind of game that lacks this emphasis of time. Likewise, Real time tactics refers to the more micromanagement, less economical subset of these games (the term tactics does not carry the implication of economic management in this case). Sure, the terms are not 100% precise, but each word in these genre names does imply something specific about the game. The idea of a battle arena did NOT come from dota, but better corresponds to games like Wow Arena, Bloodline champions, etc. Simply put, in the history of video games, Dota and its derivatives are not "Battle Arenas" in the normal sense of the term. ARTS, while not a perfect term, does combine two terms familiar to gamer lingo: Action, and RTS. Action as a genre is widely used, and has the basic meaning of "controlling one character", and implies a game which requires quick reflexes, thinking, and accuracy. RTS brings to mind economy management, unit control, and time based combat. While Dota certainly lacks certain qualities that we expect from an RTS game, for example, a multitude of units, a match of Dota certainly resembles RTS games in some ways in its chrateristics. I would argue a proper name for the genre would ideally bring out the Action, RPG (Leveling and items), Strategy, Time, and Team aspects of Dota. ARTS gets 3/5 of these, while MOBA gets gets arguably 1? The point is, we could do a lot better than MOBA, and we're at a stage in the life of this genre where we can still decide on a proper name, or multiple names if the need arises (Like RTS vs RTT). If you don't believe this point, simply look at the polls of which genre name people prefer; clearly there's no consensus which name is the official one yet and there's at least room for debate. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
Also I can google moba, it's the proper name kthx. + Show Spoiler + moba Edit: Also, I'm a racist and a grammar nazi. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
On October 28 2011 13:56 CountChocula wrote: But don't you realize what you're doing? You're saying "RTS is defined by commanding units against an opponent in a real time scenario", which is giving it a "connotation" that goes beyond the simple "definition" of Real Time Strategy. Ganfei was being facetious by taking the term at face value and including Tetris under the RTS category pointing out that Tetris also happens in real time and involves strategy. Most people who try to argue the point that MOBA can include games like Starcraft or WoW are doing the same thing Ganfei is doing except Ganfei is actually aware what he (implicit assumption since we are on the internet) is doing is ridiculous—namely taking MOBA at its definition (and ignoring any possible connotation), but holding terms like RTS and FPS to a way looser standard. OT: Let sleeping ghosts lie. In 10 years time, no one will remember the term was coined by a no-name scammer. At best, it will be noted down as an interesting anecdote somewhere. No one is taking RTS and FPS to a looser standard because these acronyms got to the heart of the genre itself a very long time ago. Sure, you can misconstrue their literal meanings, but that's completely retarded because discounting the main focus of the genre for some small tidbit that applies to the game is inane. (Ganfei calling Tetris, a puzzle game, an RTS just because there's strategy in it rofl u srs brah? I think we should all agree to call him a complete idiot even though there might only be a little idiocy in him.) The main point is that DotA is a relatively new genre, and to give it such a generic and inaccurate acronym like MOBA after the gaming community has established such a wide and diverse categorization method that has worked for ages is SENSELESS. | ||
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TheBomb
237 Posts
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ZergOwaR
Norway280 Posts
On October 28 2011 05:59 Ack1027 wrote: It's not unbelievable, and it's not hearsay. The point is: There is an opportunity to use a word other than MOBA while the genre is still being developed. Polls on TL itself show that MOBA is not even the most popular term. There are a lot of reasons to not use it. You are essentially identifying yourself with someone who is trash because you are too lazy to use another term which has no negative connotations and is more technically correct in every way. A lot of people can't read....like for example: I said I was not a grammar nazi so your whole post is useless. Edit: Do you call black people niggers, [ politically incorrect and scummy in nature just like moba ] cuz that's what you wanna use? Even if you despise the racist white people who popularized it? My point is not cause<>effect. You are co-relating yourself with a word like nigger just because you [ some dota/hon/lol follower ] wants to use the word MOBA. Funny how the people defending moba can't comprehend rational information and think far enough ahead to see that its not just an ad-hominem based plea for avoidance. User was warned for this post yeah you just need to chill abit mate  words made by bad men have not gone away because they're bad... hell since someone used the "grammar nazi" stuff, it jolted my memory the good old american sport, american football, have a nice little term "a blitz" taken from the nice little tactic made popular by nazi germany during the second world war... "the blitzkrieg  now hop off and try to get that tern out of the minds of avarage men | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
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