EPTOn September 12 2011 18:42 Dyme wrote:
Well, but you can Storm the same area with more than 1 Storm. Which is twice fungals dps.
Well, but you can Storm the same area with more than 1 Storm. Which is twice fungals dps.
Storm doesn't stack...
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 401
| Forum Index > Closed |
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Binabik
Germany686 Posts
Storm doesn't stack... | ||
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Sedz
Australia123 Posts
You never rely heavily on High Templar as damage dealers when countering bio or ling/infestor, you'll always have units like mass stalkers, archons or colossi dealing the main damage as they do it far better and much more reliably then storm. Storm is a spell that punishes the opponent for both staying in or moving out of it. If the units stay inside the storm, they take 10 damage every half second, if they choose to move out of the storm, they have lost most of their positioning advantage (if they had any)/ put them selves in a worse position for the engagement allowing your army to get some free damage on them. Not to mention storm is more than twice the dps of fungal. Zergs on the other hand, need to rely on infestors as main sources of damage. Considering a lot of the dps infestors put out came from fungal growth + np'ing colossi. If we have ling/infestor the lings just get decimated before they actually damage the protoss army, if we have roach infestor then we have a bunch of tanky units that don't really provide much dps, so we have to rely on chain fungal's, infested terran spam and/or NP'ing your damage dealers. | ||
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Binabik
Germany686 Posts
Roach DPS: 8 Zergling DPS: 7.2 Zealot DPS: 13.3 Considering their cost, Roaches and Zerglings have way more DPS. The only reason Protoss still wins fights is ForceFields, but Infestors >>> Sentrys | ||
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Sedz
Australia123 Posts
On September 12 2011 19:20 Binabik wrote: Stalker DPS: 6.9 Roach DPS: 8 Zergling DPS: 7.2 Zealot DPS: 13.3 Considering their cost, Roaches and Zerglings have way more DPS. The only reason Protoss still wins fights is ForceFields, but Infestors >>> Sentrys There are other factors you should consider when you're comparing dps in the environment of a protoss deathball versus a zerg deathball | ||
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anrimayu
United States875 Posts
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Binabik
Germany686 Posts
And we should stop the Fungal-Storm discussion, the patch doesn't really change anything about it, let's concentrate at the actual changes. ps: Owning koreans on PTR!!! | ||
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Sedz
Australia123 Posts
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Mysti_
France185 Posts
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Myrddraal
Australia937 Posts
I really wanna try out the Immortal buff. | ||
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blAke139
Switzerland199 Posts
On September 12 2011 19:31 Myrddraal wrote: Strange that the PTR doesn't seem to work for me. I really wanna try out the Immortal buff. I tried it. Immortals are now really good. (^^) | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6326 Posts
On September 12 2011 19:13 Sedz wrote: I think you guys are missing the point that storm is more of a supportive offensive spell. You never rely heavily on High Templar as damage dealers when countering bio or ling/infestor, you'll always have units like mass stalkers, archons or colossi dealing the main damage as they do it far better and much more reliably then storm. Storm is a spell that punishes the opponent for both staying in or moving out of it. If the units stay inside the storm, they take 10 damage every half second, if they choose to move out of the storm, they have lost most of their positioning advantage (if they had any)/ put them selves in a worse position for the engagement allowing your army to get some free damage on them. Not to mention storm is more than twice the dps of fungal. Zergs on the other hand, need to rely on infestors as main sources of damage. Considering a lot of the dps infestors put out came from fungal growth + np'ing colossi. If we have ling/infestor the lings just get decimated before they actually damage the protoss army, if we have roach infestor then we have a bunch of tanky units that don't really provide much dps, so we have to rely on chain fungal's, infested terran spam and/or NP'ing your damage dealers. Storm and colossus is exactly what Protoss relies on against bio and ling/ infestor because gateway units get destroyed otherwise, you need the DPS from the splash. Fungal has a bigger radius and does almost equal damage though and it's a lot easier to mass infestor for zerg than it is to mass stalker colossus and HT for Protoss for 2 reasons; the zerg is always a base ahead so he has 2 more gas and all 3 units Protoss has to build cost a load of gas while Zerg has a good mineral dump in zerglings. | ||
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Binabik
Germany686 Posts
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On September 12 2011 19:22 anrimayu wrote: Why is DRG qqing about baneling drops nerf on his twitter? Was there another ninja nerf to zerg? I just tested some baneling drop play on the PTR and it all seemed to work fine to me. Not sure what he would be referencing. | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On September 12 2011 19:59 Kambing wrote: I just tested some baneling drop play on the PTR and it all seemed to work fine to me. Not sure what he would be referencing. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/kcfkr/ptr_ninja_nerf_baneling_drops_less_effective_13/ | ||
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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
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Mysti_
France185 Posts
I'm totally lost >.< | ||
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On September 12 2011 20:00 ch33psh33p wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/kcfkr/ptr_ninja_nerf_baneling_drops_less_effective_13/ Ah ok. He was referencing the drop fix. In practice, not a big deal because when units are moving, there will usually be a hex for the baneling to fit. I reserve the right to retract that statement when I actually get into real games when the patch goes live, and I find my baneling bombs end up being surprisingly less effective anyways. -_- | ||
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s031720
Sweden383 Posts
[ This post should be added to OP, highlighted or w/e....there are so incredibly many stupid posts floating around, where it's obvious that the writer has never really bothered to further investigated the 3 main AoE spells of the respective races (storm, fungal, EMP). The crucial point is, that fungal does "almost" as much damage as storm, but does this damage guaranteed while also allowing for a chain-fungal. If you hit a storm spot-on, not only will your opponent move out of it if he has semi-decent reaction time, but he will run back/split so it's next to impossible to hit the same set of units again with a 2nd storm. With fungal the opposite is true: you literally can't move the units in question, they sit there waiting for the 2nd fungal, which they will eat again for full damage. If storm would get a buff so that the units were unable to move for ONE second, TL had to shut down for a few days due to the overwhelming QQ - and rightly so! Combining both a stun and a damage spell, not only on the same caster but literally having one spell do both was a terrible, terrible design-choice, that isn't only borderline OP, but morevoer (and that's my main concern) extremely easy to micro. Further investigate... well, have you? Have you taken the time to understand the context of the fungal; and do you understand that Zerg and Protoss operate under diffrent premises? You call other people stupid for being biased; and as such you should have properly adressed the pros and cons of both storm and fungal, as these are the ones you are comparing. Well, you dont. Here are a few things you neglected to mention to make your argument stronger: Fungal is much weaker than storm AND protoss units are more durable than zerg units. In addition fungal takes 3 times as long time to do its damage AND you will almost guaranteed loose atleast some of your infestors while trying to get them off, while Z have nothing that can snipe a templar from a distance. The supporting army is much weaker for zerg, the infestor is more expensive, takes longer to research. While it is true that you can move OUT of a storm, that is time when the Z army does not attack back but take free damage from the P army, potentially more damaging than just taking the full storm head on, not to speak of loosing whateve positional advantage you had managed to achieve true greater skill. Thus it makes sense for Z to have the infestor, it is not OP in that context. As for skill-reducing spells, its the same complaint that Z users have had about FF since beta, it dosent matter if you have perfect positioning when P can just mapedit when they need to, it dosent help if you have perfect macro if P can FF your ramp and keep the mainbulk of your army away, or just FF your army and half it. WIth FF the usefulness of zerglings also get reduced to almost nothing, which means there is no useful mineralsink for Z. Zerg players have been forced to deal with it. Now P is refusing to deal with a similar situation? I think that is the main source of frustration for me. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On September 12 2011 20:43 Kambing wrote: Ah ok. He was referencing the drop fix. In practice, not a big deal because when units are moving, there will usually be a hex for the baneling to fit. I reserve the right to retract that statement when I actually get into real games when the patch goes live, and I find my baneling bombs end up being surprisingly less effective anyways. -_- Thats a bug. The change in the patch notes is only supposed to affect areas in the Fog of War when you issue commands. Transports can no longer unload units into a dense area if the original order was issued on a fogged location. So the unit needs vision of where it is originally moving to to drop the banelings. No more clicking on the FOW behind the toss and then dropping units on the go. Instead you need to click where you have vision to drop the units. Ill test and come back (once i get PTR working) | ||
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p1oneer
Latvia50 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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