EPTSkip to the 27th minute, the battle starts at about 27:20.
Rewatching the battle while only looking the supply counts is funny too.
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 293
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Skip to the 27th minute, the battle starts at about 27:20. Rewatching the battle while only looking the supply counts is funny too. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
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Grackodile
United States263 Posts
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-dcLookAtThis-
United States42 Posts
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Sotamursu
Finland612 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4153 Posts
On September 09 2011 17:54 Belial88 wrote: NP on thors was never an issue... Zerg beat mass thors with roaches or mass mutas (or zerglings if no siege tanks or hellions). Any Zerg trying to get infestors against mass thor always dies... And other races should be punished for not having ghosts/HT anyways. The NP buff is ridiculous. Halp! Is anyone able to get on PTR on NA right now? Are u kidding? A competent Terran will always have siege tanks to compliment his thors and it completely stomps roach armies. A way to counter this was to np the thors. Now without np Zerg is at a huge disadvantage. And if I know you're going mass mutas I can start pumping marines. A handful of marines beside my thors and your mutas magic box over them, well good luck mutas. With mech you should have bfh would still does pretty well against zerglings even after the nerf. Now the only weakness I can think of Terran mech is obviously broodlords but question Is can Zerg tech there in time | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:31 Dante08 wrote: Are u kidding? A competent Terran will always have siege tanks to compliment his thors and it completely stomps roach armies. A way to counter this was to np the thors. Now without np Zerg is at a huge disadvantage. And if I know you're going mass mutas I can start pumping marines. A handful of marines beside my thors and your mutas magic box over them, well good luck mutas. With mech you should have bfh would still does pretty well against zerglings even after the nerf. Now the only weakness I can think of Terran mech is obviously broodlords but question Is can Zerg tech there in time You're absolutely right in that its a game of timings. Roaches do wonders versus mech which cannot move out until it hits its critical mass (a time by which roaches are terrible against it) by then several other Zerg options should have opened up. I'm sure you can ask high level terrans and we'll agree that marine medivac tank is far more potent in the hands of a skilled played. Mech has its place to catch people off guard as does any other style, but the mainstay will remain marine tank even after infestor changes. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:26 Ganseng wrote: i can't agree on that, corruptors are excellent anti-air, especially against massive units. sure they lose to void rays in equal supply numbers, but they basically kill everything else in the air supply- and resource-wise (and infestors' support makes them much more potent). queens are also pretty good. as for mass voidrays, you always have to remember that these things build 60 seconds (40 if you chronoboost them constantly), and each stargate costs 150/150... so it's not easy to keep up in numbers with corruptors. Corruptors are sooooooooooooooooooooo bad! There is no way Zerg can win any games in ZvP or TvZ if it's necessary to go mass-corruptors! A simple switch from Collos to Immos+HT's and the Corruptors are completely useless. Corruptors are just a mess, that's why we've heard some rumours that they will be cut out of the game and replaced or heavily changed in HoTS. Just compare them to Vikings - Vikings have a much bigger range, which is insanely useful for dealing with Collossi AND if the opponent has no more air-Units, they can even land and at least be somewhat useful. If you'd switch Corruptors with Vikings, they could nerf the hell out of NP (regarding PvZ at least), cuz vikings are a great way of dealing with collossi, with with NP being nerfed and the current state of the corruptor, Zerg will have no real counter to collossi-deathballs again. | ||
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Bocian
Poland259 Posts
Damage nerf on infestors don't affect protoss units. It still take the same number of fungals to kill the same units as before. How often do you see army being killed only by fungals? YOu get like 2 fungals (at the same place) during major battles and now your units will survive with more health so the other units will have more job to done after the fungals! And I'd like to know how to counter mass thor with mech support or collossi deathball. Seriously. I know there are some good styles like morrow's but it's soo hard to do at my level (mid master). I think if the NP goes throgh we will just see zerg switching to terrans tbh... | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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OnlineHero
Denmark647 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:28 MrCon wrote: http://it.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/294580196 Skip to the 27th minute, the battle starts at about 27:20. Rewatching the battle while only looking the supply counts is funny too. First of all, JYPs composition was terrible. I don't know why toss players absolutely try to force colossus/stalker when there are a decent amount of infestors out. Second, he blinked on top of the infestors, but didn't target fire the ones that were NPing. Instead of nerfing an ability, maybe protoss players should try using HTs some more. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:12 Jerubaal wrote: I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but a big issue in general, not just balance-wise, is that especially vs terran the answer to every composition is the infestor. They go bio- get infestors and fungal growth. They go mech- get infestors and NP. It wasn't quite the same with Protoss, but, in response to a few of the above posters, did you ever see a Protoss convince a zerg that infestors weren't a good idea? If HTs are such a powerful counter, why do we see infestors being made in the face of HTs? well i don't understand much of pvz (i'm t), but i think hts are really good against infestors, just as good as ghosts are. infestors are strong indeed, but there are strong counters to them. as i was better (high d-low m) i played thor+banshee in tvz, and it owned infestors. for me personally hts are a bigger problem than infestors, for they counter everything t has even harder (esp. feedback is a pain). but it's off-topic, let's not start a balance discussion. i just said my opinion. | ||
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lcl
United Kingdom119 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:31 Sotamursu wrote: Am I the only one who thinks battlecruisers might be somewhat viable now since they can't be NP'd? I dont know if you ever saw a game where zerg didnt have spire and only NP but what happens is that the zerg cant actualy kill the BC and it uses up LOADS of energy to take control of the BC - so to answer your question, this isnt why BC wasnt viable but rather because zerg got corrupters before making broodlords. | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:06 branflakes14 wrote: Infestor/Ling? Thors don't do great against Zerglings and Fungal Growth still does pretty nasty damage to Thors, not to mention clears out repairing SCVs like a charm. And Thors do pretty poorly against Brood Lords. Funnily enough I've never seen a Terran go for mass Thor in TvZ, and I don't doubt that there's a very good reason for that. Fungal does nasty damage to thors? Really? You consider 10 fungals "nasty damage"? You slap one SCV on that thor and fungal doesn't do jack shit. Have yet to see a terran NOT bring an SCV with a thor... or for that matter keep any SCVs in his base at all each time he moves out. | ||
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Mojar
Australia185 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:23 Mojar wrote: The reason terran's don't go pure thor is because of Infestor NP lings do nothing to a lot of Thors especially when backed by some hellions. Broodlords are useless as you cant get them in time (while staying alive) vs a big mech timing. Also Thors still do pretty decent damage against them anyway. Also no FG does not do nasty damage vs Thors it does jack shit and don't forget fungal is being nerfed also. To go along with mech being completely overpowered with this change. A collosus pure blink stalker timing push with +attack will rape again, you have to make a bunch of corruptors to deal with the collo while they just warp in an extra round of 7 stalkers and roll you over. I guess im worried about nothing though as I do not see this actually being implemented. | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:34 lcl wrote: I dont know if you ever saw a game where zerg didnt have spire and only NP but what happens is that the zerg cant actualy kill the BC and it uses up LOADS of energy to take control of the BC - so to answer your question, this isnt why BC wasnt viable but rather because zerg got corrupters before making broodlords. Zergs typically have mutas... which do quite well against BCs... if not mutas they probably have corruptors going. If the Zerg was going mass infestor and the Terran somehow got out mass BCs... there's something else the Zerg is doing horribly wrong. On September 09 2011 18:36 Mojar wrote: To go along with mech being completely overpowered with this change. A collosus pure blink stalker timing push with +attack will rape again, you have to make a bunch of corruptors to deal with the collo while they just warp in an extra round of 7 stalkers and roll you over. I guess im worried about nothing though as I do not see this actually being implemented. Magic boxing and smart roach usage is what killed mech play. That and Terrans found out how to properly use marine tank. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:34 lcl wrote: I dont know if you ever saw a game where zerg didnt have spire and only NP but what happens is that the zerg cant actualy kill the BC and it uses up LOADS of energy to take control of the BC - so to answer your question, this isnt why BC wasnt viable but rather because zerg got corrupters before making broodlords. NP with some Infested Terrans actually took out Cattlebruisers pretty effectively, imo. But yeah, Corruptors absolutely annihilate Battlecruisers. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
Even the damn blizzard website said so....so now thors have no counter? o_O | ||
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jstar
Canada568 Posts
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:38 neoghaleon55 wrote: I'm so confused.... I thought they designed NP to counter thors in particular.... Even the damn blizzard website said so....so now thors have no counter? o_O Try reading the thread a bit beforehand.  On September 09 2011 18:38 jstar wrote: It's threads like these where I hope TL.net can implement a feature where only Master+ get access to post. Tempting... but a closed community is a fail community. Sadly. | ||
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