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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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jstar
Canada568 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:39 wolfe wrote: Try reading the thread a bit beforehand.  Tempting... but a closed community is a fail community. Sadly. As if the current TL community isn't fail? It doesn't fail much harder than this. | ||
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Ceyox
Sweden29 Posts
Sending two colossus from behind to rape the infestors during the engagement works. Having HT feedback works. It just takes micro, and positioning. In the end the player with the better mechanics win. First off, the two colossus you're talking about would probably be dead before the fight even starts, and feedbacking neural parasiting infestors dosnt kill them, the energy they have left after a NP is not enough for feedback to kill them. So please, if you want to somewhat "defend" the NP dont just throw out crap like that without giving it a second thought. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:56 Dingobloo wrote: Best solution: Give NP to the corrupter. Hmm, that would actually be pretty friggen cool. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:53 Snowbear wrote: Yes he is. Battlecruisers get hardcountered by corruptors. Not mass BCs. Just a couple to tank dmg. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:34 Sated wrote: Look at the win-rate in the individual matchups. I think both are below 33% win-rate for Protoss. I actually think the win-rate versus Zerg is lower than the one against Terran, but I can't remember. In any case, it's not just Ghosts... Also, I've seen plenty of people recently saying that Protoss are "going to end up like in BW". I assume this means that Protoss in BW didn't do very well, as backed up by what you've said, which suggests to me that Protoss isn't too great in BW... despite what IdrA might say Protoss didn't win nearly as many major tournaments than Terran and Zerg lately, but that's also cuz Jaedong and Flash >>>> Bisu. Also, they were easier to learn and to play than the other races, but with the skill-level being sooooo damn high in Korea, that wasn't a huge issue anymore. @Topic: Yes, Protoss are doing bad lately in ZvP and I have to say, If I see Protoss on 2 base and zerg macroing up on three (going low-gas and very low-tech) and with all the timings to defend DT's and Air-Units and common timing-attacks being figured out, I see why Protoss have a Problem in PvZ lately, if they don't simply outsmart the Zerg or do a gimmicky strat. And I say that as a Zerg-player who heavily whined about ZvP some months ago. ^^' Still, Protoss lategame is incredibly strong and if Protoss can just defend and secure a third, it definitely gets easier (I feel like the time until Protoss saturates the third and is able to get over 150 food is where most ZvP's get decided, either by a timing-attack by the protoss or Zerg or by the Zerg denying a third of the Toss and/or simply outmacroing them). But that's why Blizzard plans to buff the Prism and the Immortal and nerf Fungal, which will IMHO help Protoss greatly to harrass Zerg and be overall stronger in that critical transitional phase where Zerg is clearly the strongest against Protoss and secures a win or a heavy economic lead. I really feel that most of the ZvP-games are decided by the Zerg simply outmacroing the Protoss and by the Protoss putting himself behind by still using the same VoidRay, DT and 6-gate-timings. Watch MC's ZvP lately, his VR's just don't do any DMG anymore and just a few month's ago, Zerg thought they couldn't get up a third against MC and he was able to deny the Zergs third and get his own up safely. Those timings just don't work anymore, cuz Zerg figured out to play low-gas, get the third quicker and put up spines at the perfect timing etc. Also, 4-gates and other 1-base all-in's are being used less cuz they just only work if the Zerg is suprised and with the game and skill-level evolving so rapidly, it's just to risky to play on the supidity of your opponent. As soon as Protoss get's over 150 Supply though and has 3+ bases and can start maxing out on tech and units, the macro-advantage for Zerg isn't that huge anymore and Protoss has so many good Lategame-Compositions against Zerg to win with a maxed army. Additionally the Prism+Immo-buff and the Fungal-nerf will help as well. I feel like that the changes will help Protoss in ZvP greatly and that most of them will help the balance, but the NP-nerf would just be too sick. With all that said, I still feel Protoss could do much better if they don't rely on strats that worked a few weeks/months ago that focused on denying the zerg's third or killing him with strong timing-attacks and just heavily focus on getting up a third as quickly as possible and max out on 3 bases, while doing light harrass with DT's, Prism, small groups of speedlots, Blinkstalkers or Phoenix without committing too hard to them and without them delaying in any way your third, which all most common ZvP-builds do atm. I'd pretty much only go for Sentries+Stalkers+Canons until I'd have secured my third as Protoss atm. There's really no use to commit to high tech, cuz it won't do any DMG to zerg and it won't help you defend and simply make your macro worse. | ||
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kusto
Russian Federation823 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:58 iCanada wrote: Hmm, that would actually be pretty friggen cool. I agree. This makes a lot sense actually. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I don't mind NP getting changed, but mass thor seems to threaten to become an issue if it is changed. Small groups of thors can be beaten by lings yes more likely we'll see mass thor vs mass BL Im actually more worried about mass BC now Thats not gonna happen Corrupter are super strong vs BC's . NP was never the reason BC's aren't build in TvZ. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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antikk555
85 Posts
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:53 Snowbear wrote: Yes he is. Battlecruisers get hardcountered by corruptors. 1) No he is not because Sapphire agrees so Sotamursu isn't the only one. Yeah hard to understand I know =/ 2) You can make more than 1 type of unit in the game | ||
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AidanS
39 Posts
Also with the buff to hunter seeker missile its a decent counter to that, if it ever gets any use. It also makes the mothership a reasonable choice in PvZ outside of a rush. This still leaves neural as a good spell. Even if your infestor gets sniped fairly quickly after NPing an immortal you get basically a round of fire tanked for you by everything on attack move in your opponents army a damaged or dead immortal and 50 damage to a stalker. Immortals are 4 food infestors are 2, so gambling 2 to kill 4 and freely tank some damage away from your army isn't bad. Its just that fungal remains the God of all spells so it would be hard to justify using NP. | ||
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TheBatman
United States209 Posts
Infestor nueral nerf looking straight back at me.. Today I am a sad panda. R.I.P | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
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escruting
Spain229 Posts
On September 09 2011 19:09 Blackk wrote: Can't ultras toe to toe with mass thors? I think blizzard is going for a whole new endgame... No. User was warned for this post | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
yes they easily can. | ||
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epoc
Finland1190 Posts
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OptimusYale
Korea (South)1005 Posts
On September 09 2011 19:09 Blackk wrote: Can't ultras toe to toe with mass thors? I think blizzard is going for a whole new endgame... To do that they would have to make ultras useful, sure the new spawn time is good, but can you really justify spending all those resources on 5 ultras when you can build a billion throw away lings ? | ||
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RodYan
United States126 Posts
On September 09 2011 19:09 Blackk wrote: Can't ultras toe to toe with mass thors? I think blizzard is going for a whole new endgame... Ultras can only beat thors if the thors are bunched up and not near an buildings or other chokes. Otherwise Ultras lose pretty freaking bad. | ||
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Therg
Sweden238 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:52 Shade_CsT wrote: Guys, the problem isn't mass Thors... It's 4-5 Thor with the support of tons of upgraded tanks, it destroys roaches... This. Terran 2 base mech timings are gonna be sick hard to stop now for Zerg. | ||
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