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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 09 2011 19:08 AidanS wrote:
Neural is now an anti HT spell, same range as feedback so its a fair fight? Well it would be if fungal wasn't still a better HT counter.
Also with the buff to hunter seeker missile its a decent counter to that, if it ever gets any use.
It also makes the mothership a reasonable choice in PvZ outside of a rush.
This still leaves neural as a good spell.
Even if your infestor gets sniped fairly quickly after NPing an immortal you get basically a round of fire tanked for you by everything on attack move in your opponents army a damaged or dead immortal and 50 damage to a stalker.
Immortals are 4 food infestors are 2, so gambling 2 to kill 4 and freely tank some damage away from your army isn't bad.
Its just that fungal remains the God of all spells so it would be hard to justify using NP.
I may have misunderstood your post, so sorry in advance, but a-moving your army, won't kill an NPd immortal, your units will ignore it.
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On September 09 2011 18:40 OnlineHero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 18:38 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I'm so confused.... I thought they designed NP to counter thors in particular....
Even the damn blizzard website said so....so now thors have no counter?
o_O Lings counter them, but hey, BFH costs no gas so there's that.
Broodlords are pretty good against them aren't they?
Not like the NP changes anything from the zerg deathball. Broodlords kill everything in the ground other than marines while Fungal kills marines/vikings.
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so only units of Protoss non affected are Mothership and Collusus and Archon??? Quite like that change, Infestor seems too strong but mayb it is too much?
For people whining this is a PUBLIC TEST so a number of changes are done for observation and probabably wont even stick...
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On September 09 2011 19:09 Blackk wrote:
Can't ultras toe to toe with mass thors? I think blizzard is going for a whole new endgame...
You would think.
It isn't even close. 1v1, if they start right next to eachother the Thor wins. If they start at a range like any fight would, it is a disgusting win for the Thor.
It gets worse as you add more Thors/Ultras. Thors also scale much better with attack upgrades, getting +3 to the ultras +2.
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Hahaha that is great 
NP was for me the only way to stop a deathball as a zerg :S which unit am I supposed to use neural parasite on now? HTs are always hiding in the ball... Will it be roach hydra corruptor again? I hated that...
However the infestor will still be great for killing the opponents expo with infested terrans, is that worth it?
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UOn September 09 2011 19:08 AidanS wrote:
Neural is now an anti HT spell, same range as feedback so its a fair fight? Well it would be if fungal wasn't still a better HT counter.
Also with the buff to hunter seeker missile its a decent counter to that, if it ever gets any use.
It also makes the mothership a reasonable choice in PvZ outside of a rush.
This still leaves neural as a good spell.
Even if your infestor gets sniped fairly quickly after NPing an immortal you get basically a round of fire tanked for you by everything on attack move in your opponents army a damaged or dead immortal and 50 damage to a stalker.
Immortals are 4 food infestors are 2, so gambling 2 to kill 4 and freely tank some damage away from your army isn't bad.
Its just that fungal remains the God of all spells so it would be hard to justify using NP.
A neuraled immortal does not aggro the toss units.
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On September 09 2011 19:17 Pugnae wrote:Hahaha that is great NP was for me the only way to stop a deathball as a zerg :S which unit am I supposed to use neural parasite on now? HTs are always hiding in the ball... Will it be roach hydra corruptor again? I hated that... However the infestor will still be great for killing the opponents expo with infested terrans, is that worth it?
Why would you ever wanna neural a HT?
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On September 09 2011 19:09 Blackk wrote:
Can't ultras toe to toe with mass thors? I think blizzard is going for a whole new endgame...
ultras lose to thors in 1v1 and it gets worse as the numbers increase due to the thor being ranged, i think the only lategame unit left for zerg is broodlord unless the ultras outnumber the thors by 5:4 or something like that. this ignores the existence of other units.
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On September 09 2011 19:19 prOpSaiton wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 19:17 Pugnae wrote:Hahaha that is great NP was for me the only way to stop a deathball as a zerg :S which unit am I supposed to use neural parasite on now? HTs are always hiding in the ball... Will it be roach hydra corruptor again? I hated that... However the infestor will still be great for killing the opponents expo with infested terrans, is that worth it? Why would you ever wanna neural a HT?
So they can't feedback and you can neural more HT so they can't feedback more so...
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On September 09 2011 19:17 Pugnae wrote:Hahaha that is great NP was for me the only way to stop a deathball as a zerg :S which unit am I supposed to use neural parasite on now? HTs are always hiding in the ball... Will it be roach hydra corruptor again? I hated that... However the infestor will still be great for killing the opponents expo with infested terrans, is that worth it?
Fungal Growth isn't being removed from the game, so I don't see how you suddenly wouldn't be able to oppose a large Protoss army.
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On September 09 2011 19:14 epoc wrote:
Well thats damn weird the neural parasite nerf. What good is it to neural parasite stalkers or medivacs? Thats not epic at all. Really? What are they thinking?
Tanks, Immortals, Ht's, Warp-Prisms :o
But I think it is silly that they removed the ability to NP high priority unit like Colossus and Thors, I'd rather them just tone down NP than remove the ability to NP them altogether 
TBH, I think they nerfed this because of how viable mass infestor has gotten. It just seems like they never intended the unit to be viable in such numbers as they are used now and thus the ability NP might have been balanced around only being able to have a handful of Infestors and not 10+...
Before Mass infestor didn't quite work as Fungal did less damage and over a greater time period, so it was never worth it to make 10+ Infestors as the battle would be over before most of them get to use their abilities without overlapping, but with the fungal change that has completely changed. It is a pretty common sight to see a TON of infestors being used in ZvP just because of how strong the spell has gotten, and maybe this has made NP stronger than it was meant to be...If you watch someone like Destiny, it is a pretty common sight to see him take EVERY single Colossus the Protoss has in multiple fights, I don't think that was intended when they made this spell :X
That is just my guess tbh. I don't like the change either, there are probably better ways they could have gone around it, but I've yet to see a change Blizzard have made that I have disagreed with (over time), like KA, I was pretty bumbed the day but flash forward now and all I can think about is how ridiculous Protoss would be if it was still in the game
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Russian Federation473 Posts
On September 09 2011 19:17 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 19:09 Blackk wrote:
Can't ultras toe to toe with mass thors? I think blizzard is going for a whole new endgame... You would think. It isn't even close. 1v1, if they start right next to eachother the Thor wins. If they start at a range like any fight would, it is a disgusting win for the Thor. It gets worse as you add more Thors/Ultras. Thors also scale much better with attack upgrades, getting +3 to the ultras +2.
this post is an intended lie.
1v1 with 0 upgrades, thor wins off creep but loses at any distance on creep. it's close though.
with upgrades, thors scale much worse, for they have double attack (against thick ultras armor) and get +3, whereas ultras get +4 vs armred. (+33% splash damage).
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This has been coming for a long time. And i find it quite hilarious how many people are commenting on this balance change that know nothing about balance.
The Infestor will still be the staple of your army in ZvP. And used in ZvT and used in ZvZ. You can still neural tanks and immortals, vikings if you want when you have broods. And still have the other spells which are fucking godly. Maelstrom and plague combined in one spell? I mean cmon... Even as a zerg player i'll say the infestor is probably a bit too strong right now and the nerf could have been wayyyy worse.
Just wait and see how the patch plays out before shooting it down every god damn fucking time -.-.
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On September 09 2011 19:22 branflakes14 wrote:
Fungal Growth isn't being removed from the game, so I don't see how you suddenly wouldn't be able to oppose a large Protoss army.
Thanks, I forgot FG was still in the game
FG will be great against 4-5 collosi and stalker I think.
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On September 09 2011 19:17 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 19:09 Blackk wrote:
Can't ultras toe to toe with mass thors? I think blizzard is going for a whole new endgame... You would think. It isn't even close. 1v1, if they start right next to eachother the Thor wins. If they start at a range like any fight would, it is a disgusting win for the Thor. It gets worse as you add more Thors/Ultras. Thors also scale much better with attack upgrades, getting +3 to the ultras +2.
Arrr in a 1v1 with 0/0 ups the thor wins but only just (start from range, no creep) With 3/3 Ultra win, but only just (from range, no creep) It's all about positioning though. Thors want to be in a choke point while Ultras want to surround to make use of AOE. Its Thor favored as it should be, but a far cry from being disgusting. The build time was the main problem for the Ultra and now that is no longer an issue.
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Hm I think that removing neural parasite from massive units is good since it kinda sucks for an infestor to have the potential to mindcontrol units twice its price. As a terran player I would love to see my race lose some early game harassement/endingthegame potential and trade if for a viable late game metal army (of course zerg would have to be have the options to deal with it). In other words I'd like to see more combat units in the late game and less casters (be they ghosts, infestors or ht).
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On September 09 2011 19:16 iglocska wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 19:08 AidanS wrote:
Neural is now an anti HT spell, same range as feedback so its a fair fight? Well it would be if fungal wasn't still a better HT counter.
Also with the buff to hunter seeker missile its a decent counter to that, if it ever gets any use.
It also makes the mothership a reasonable choice in PvZ outside of a rush.
This still leaves neural as a good spell.
Even if your infestor gets sniped fairly quickly after NPing an immortal you get basically a round of fire tanked for you by everything on attack move in your opponents army a damaged or dead immortal and 50 damage to a stalker.
Immortals are 4 food infestors are 2, so gambling 2 to kill 4 and freely tank some damage away from your army isn't bad.
Its just that fungal remains the God of all spells so it would be hard to justify using NP. I may have misunderstood your post, so sorry in advance, but a-moving your army, won't kill an NPd immortal, your units will ignore it.
Yeah I guess its kinda silly to think that the P will target fire a NPed immortal if they have any colos or carriers.
It leaves it as a super situational spell but has a niche versus P since you'll at least be grabbing a higher food unit.
No use versus terran at all really.
Either way I cant ever see wanting to use it while fungal is guarenteed damage for near zero risk.
They should have nerfed the range of neural instead so that grabbing the colos or thors is a big gamble for big reward. At 9 range but no big units its still low risk but not worth the reward to gamble a gassy unit and waste a potential fungal.
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2082 Posts
On September 09 2011 19:30 Pugnae wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 19:22 branflakes14 wrote:
Fungal Growth isn't being removed from the game, so I don't see how you suddenly wouldn't be able to oppose a large Protoss army. Thanks, I forgot FG was still in the game FG will be great against 4-5 collosi and stalker I think.
Well, when 1 Fungal can do damage equivalent to the full health of 4 Stalkers, it really should be.
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I think that the NP nerf will hurt zvt mech more than zvp. If they wanted to fix infestors for zvp why not do something about infested terrans?
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if they change warpgate research back to old duration protoss is finally competitive again
mothership hero mode back in business... this patch is starting to look good
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EPT
