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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Selke
Canada27 Posts
So if I Neural a Warp Prism warping in units those units will cancel warp in as if the prism closed or was destroyed? I'm a little confused about what this means... And if it were a 2v2, and my ally was P, they could then warp units in on that warp prisms field? | ||
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Elldar
Sweden287 Posts
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On August 30 2011 03:15 vectorix108 wrote: I like what they're trying to do with the mothership, but it will never become commonplace in competitive play... If only Blizzard tried to somehow patch the carrier to become more popular, like in the SC1 metagame. I am pretty sad to see that protoss has 2 units that are almost never used. Even battle cruisers get made in tvt. In broodwar the scout (unit) was the only useless unit, now toss has 2. Maybe the mothership should be removed because it's the only unit hero like (you can have only 1). | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On August 30 2011 03:30 Alzadar wrote: Mothership should absolutely be immune to neural parasite for as long as the stupid "only one" rule is in place, maybe EMP as well (although that's another matter). Why is that restriction even there at all? Barring how "un-StarCraft"-like it feels to have a hero unit, what balance purpose does it serve? Would amassing the EIGHT food Mothership ever be remotely viable? first of all having more then 1 mother ship means that soon as 1 M ship dies a 2nd will be there to still cloak a army. u would need to mass a shit ton of detection and toss can easily snipe that detection or vortex it. archon toilets or colo toilets with mass vortexing would break the game. mass recals would also turn the toss army into a god mode mobile army. they can attk any time they want to with out fear and anytime there in the slightest of danger they can just be recalled back to a base. and if they want to make a big atk then send in a M ship, recall it to the base. raid. and once a army comes in to clean it up then they can recall it back to there main with the 2nd M ship. so yes, more than 1 M ship would be broke as fuck. the supply wont even matter since ur army will basically be a "imortal army" with that many M ships. infact 2 or 3 would be enough to break the game. dustin has already stated that the M ship is only in the game to appeal to the casual crowd. it was NEVER meant for competitive play, infact they werent even going to include it in the multiplayer at one point. the only reason its there is for eye candy, cheesing, and BMing. the M ship is the only thing that is left of the whole "you can only have one of this unit" fiasco. remember zerg could only have 1 queen that had the ability to morph to higher tiers of queens and teleport to any hatchery on the map by burrowing and terran could only have 1 thor that could revive itself on the field if it wasnt atked? the M ship was the only thing left from that concep | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
I do; however, I fully agree that the carrier needs a buff On August 30 2011 03:26 mishimaBeef wrote: Perhaps mothership should be immune to (some) spells. I agree, feedback, emp (arguably) and neural should not work on the mothership. If they just removed the mothership from the game i would not shed a tear. | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
I agree, feedback, emp (arguably) and neural should not work on the mothership. If they just removed the mothership from the game i would not shed a tear why? emp only takes 100 shields from M ship which isnt much and letting it get NPed it is the tosses fault. getting the M ship fed backed is also entirely the tosses fault. the M ship is rarely at full energy anyway since u only need just enough for recall or vortex | ||
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features
Ireland160 Posts
btw you only need one emp to nullify a mothership due to the cost of its spells. It should be immune to all status ailments, until its eventually removed. It just doesnt fit in multiplayer well at all. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
I agree, feedback, emp (arguably) and neural should not work on the mothership. If they just removed the mothership from the game i would not shed a tear. And how to stop mothership then? Feedback infestors and l2p | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On August 30 2011 05:59 features wrote: especially feedback lol........ Kinda ridiculous that something about 6 range in diamater that moves at a snails pace with little other than very expensive spells to offer, can be robbed of its mana so easily. btw you only need one emp to nullify a mothership due to the cost of its spells. It should be immune to all status ailments, until its eventually removed. It just doesnt fit in multiplayer well at all. like i said before that is the toss players fault if he the M ship gets fed backed. do u have any idea on how hard it is for a templar to feed back a M ship if the M ship is BEHIND the cloaked army? very hard... same thing for NP. its not that easy to NP a M ship if the toss knows what he is doing, especially with FFing. | ||
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MinimalistSC2
United States121 Posts
mule gives you 180 mins/minute, replacing 4-6 scvs depending on the saturation. an orbital can maintain one mule. in order to have a mineral income from 3 bases, you need at least 12 orbitals dropping pure mules (no scans). that's 6600 minerals. an orbital pays off for itself after 315 seconds (over 5 minutes) game time. occupation of scvs not calculated. facit: orbitals late game are no way overpowered, and hardly compensate for disadvantages in the pace of reproduction terrans have compared to other races. stop calling for a mule nerf. it will never happen. bwahahaha. You're full of turds. an orbital pays off for itself after 315 seconds (over 5 minutes) game time. orbitals late game are no way overpowered are you suggesting that late game comes before 20 min mark? If a terran gets 4 orbitals by the 20 minute mark. (which is by no means impossible and in most games the case) then according to you, starting with the first orbital at the 5 min mark and continuing upwards, the terran will have one full base of free, continuous income by the 25 minute mark. Provided they have a base to mine from, they get income for free. More importantly, it denies other races the ability to harass workers. and gives terran 20 extra supply to work with. And that is only FOUR orbitals. And don't forget gold bases. You can say zerg can make drones at an imbalanced rate, but drones cost minerals and larva nad supply. You can say Protoss can make probes at an imbalanced rate is extremely difficult to harass late game, but probes cost money and supply and warp ins do as well. Mules do not cost money, terrans typically have four or more orbitals by the time a game is considered in the "late game" and with scvs they can over saturate bases for more income than a single base should allow and severely abuse gold base income rates. A fully saturated gold base with 2-3 orbtials pumping mules at it is a 3 base mineral income. and pays back late game mule farming IN ADVANCE. Mules are necessarily for terran early and mid game, but after a gold base or deep into late game, they are imbalanced and spiral out of control. 550 minerals (150 really for the first 2-3 OCs, since you need a CC anyway) is stupidly cheap for free detection scouting and mining on a minute by minute basis for the rest of the game, when the rest of the game is 30+ minutes. | ||
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features
Ireland160 Posts
On August 30 2011 06:01 Existor wrote: And how to stop mothership then? Feedback infestors and l2p If you need spells to stop a mothership your not very good at life.  | ||
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features
Ireland160 Posts
On August 30 2011 06:03 Ballistixz wrote: like i said before that is the toss players fault if he the M ship gets fed backed. do u have any idea on how hard it is for a templar to feed back a M ship if the M ship is BEHIND the cloaked army? very hard... same thing for NP. its not that easy to NP a M ship if the toss knows what he is doing, especially with FFing. You have obviously never used feedback lol, it has like 12 range, with an instant effect. Why else do think a protoss player can pop a whole line of ghosts at once. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
It's not that huge but it's certainly better than before. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
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imareaver3
United States906 Posts
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CarlaBruni
61 Posts
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Dsn4001
Korea (South)106 Posts
On August 30 2011 05:50 Roxy wrote: This seems to be some very progressive patch changes and I like the direction we are headed. I do; however, I fully agree that the carrier needs a buff I agree, feedback, emp (arguably) and neural should not work on the mothership. If they just removed the mothership from the game i would not shed a tear. I love the idea that the mothership be immune to spells. Seems like a good way to buff it without making it too strong. | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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Dsn4001
Korea (South)106 Posts
On August 30 2011 06:16 tuho12345 wrote: Mothership rush is pretty good in PvZ if you can stop them from scouting and catch them off guard Isn't that true for any kind of Protoss timing attack/tech rush though? | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
dustin, seriously, what hit you in the head to conclude mothership > arbitor. even in "casual player's" point of view. | ||
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