|
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 29 2011 19:24 captainwaffles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 18:54 Hall0wed wrote:
Just realized, still no Carrier change T.T
Why won't Blizzard atleast try SOMETHING? Build time, movement speed, uhhh idk what else they are missing seeing as they have the highest dps in the game but either build time or movement speed would be a great thing to try. Carriers are good against lategame Terran Mech, thats been their use since broodwar. They serve a purpose and they do it pretty damn well.
This is true. When you invest most of your gas in Tanks/ Thors/ production facilities, upgrades, Carriers are extremely strong, when made at the right time.
In the current "metagame" though, Carriers have no place, no matter how strong they would make them. Terran's basic composition is comprised of anti-air galore (marines + vikings). Basically, if you make colossus, you can not make Carriers.
It's similar in PvZ + the neural parasite (not the spell itself, but the "abundance" of it since it comes from the same, all purpose unit.)
|
On August 27 2011 21:00 ToxicFlu wrote:
They still need to nerf EMP.
I'm sure Blizzard calculated which units kill. But forgot that 4 well placed EMPs can reduce your army to 50%. Psionic storm can't do that. Most MMM will just stim away, Toss has no way of out running a terran onced EMPs have fallen.
Take the game of MC vs Puma. what a disgrace.
-instead of EMP reducing 100 shields, they should reduce all shields by 60%, and not be stackable. EMP should not detect cloaked units also, thats just too much.
- or they can just reduce the size of the EMP. Feedback, only reduces the energy of one unit. EMP reduces the energy of too many sentries & HT.
As Protoss, why do you care if EMP detects cloaked units or not? Because they can EMP Observers? Be smart and put them on top of the Ghosts. Maybe they'll pull a TLO and EMP themselves. Also, a very dumb idea to have the EMPs NOT be stackable. They were like that before, to keep EMPs from being wasted on accident (kind of dumb imo), but they were then fixed to be stackable.
EMP AoE isn't that big... Learn to split your freakin' casters and position them properly...
On August 28 2011 02:44 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:09 Naphal wrote:On August 28 2011 00:49 Ryder. wrote:
I think it's funny how terrans are complaining about blue flame and saying stuff like 'hellions should cost 75 minerals' or 'blue flame research should cost less'. Cause, you know, when voidray speed upgrade was removed as compensation void rays were buffed? Or when amulet was removed, HTs/storm was buffed? I bet if toss had been saying that these units should have received a counter-buff Terrans would be laughing their socks off... i believe the voidray was buffed, at least the damage was changed in a way that i think was beneficial, apart from that lowering the cost of the blueflameupgrade would really be the only thing that would make sense to me, because its 50% less worth now. Youd be wrong. VR used to do 41 DPS now does 26 DPS. Took waaay less time to destroy hatches and bunkers, nerfed the hell out of 3 gate VR. Before they could catch Vikings or run from them as the case may be. Now Protoss has no air unit that is cost effective vs viking even the "air superiority fighter" phoenix..
Phoenix beats Viking 1:1 and it actually gets much worse when there are groups of both fighting.
On August 28 2011 02:32 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 15:01 RaQIl wrote:
apart from the stalker blink change and hellion pre-igniter I don't like these changes.
I mean if Blizzard want to make reaches less effective they just need to nerf them and not buff the immortal and if they are trying to change it for PvP, then just make blink research tier 3 and put it into dark shrine or something like that.
The mothership is a joke, I mean at least make it so that it can't be taken by neural parasite, otherwise what is the point. I use one every game vs Z/ Key is leave them in base/expos protected by cannons otherwise yeah NP, any anti air make them shit. To use them outside base they need about 100 more HPs and 100 more shields in addition immune to NP or no one will use them.
I understand the concept to improve mobility and allow your army to run away, but Blink and Force Field already fill that purpose.
On August 28 2011 02:02 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:49 Bippzy wrote:On August 28 2011 01:22 Griffith` wrote:On August 28 2011 01:15 radiantshadow92 wrote:On August 28 2011 01:12 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 27 2011 22:57 bole wrote:hey ppl is 1-1-1 nerfed ? in 1.4 ?..... if its not i think it should simply its to hard to stop..  as toss.. I don't know how you'd expect 1-1-1 to be nerfed directly. Like, if you move out with mech, bio and air units all together before the 11 minute mark, five of your units explode at random? The 5 second barracks build time change is a nerf to all Terran builds, and the Immortal range buff will help toss deal with tanks better. Other than that, I don't know if any of the patch fixes have any real impact on the 1-1-1. Which is good - I hate the 1-1-1 push at the moment, but I would hate for Blizzard to come along and change the rules of the game based on the build of the week. Toss will figure out a good response, the metagame will shift, we'll all look back and laugh at how we thought the 1-1-1 was impossible to hold. Or it will turn out after a while that there really isn't a solution (which I doubt) and the game will be patched accordingly. tank splash damage has been nerfed because GS now works on it. All of this together should nullify the 1-1-1 Pretty much this, Hellions are horrible against zealots now. Tanks are horrible against guardian shield (the damage reduction is actually HUGE) 8.75 lowest radii splash -> 6.75, an effective 23% decrease in damage PER UNIT. 17.5->15.5 in the second radii. In addition, Immortals now have increased range. R.I.P. Mech Its just this patch does NOTHING to help Terrans ungodly awful late game. Sigh Terran's lategame in PvT is the only bad lategame for terran. But I feel like with good viking and ghost usage until you can get some BCs out you could take down toss. In the GSL good ghost play has been messing up lots of terrans I feel like TvZ is much more difficult lategame, especially on large maps where you cant just split the map. TvP is manageable with mass ghosts and good control. These changes just mean that we are pigeonholed further into the MMM/viking/ghost style, which isnt the end of the world but does make terran gameplay more boring.
The TvP vs TvZ lategame is debatable. It's based on the player. I feel TvZ is easier, because unless you're already dead (ie you lost a large push and did no damage), you're always fine as long as you're on top of how many bases they have, you keep harassing, and you don't overplay your army (slowly push through the map and retreat when necessary). It's long and grueling, but it's not really like TvP where you have invisible super Zerglings harassing you, and an EXTREMELY cost-efficient deathball walking your way. For Zerg, nothing is really cost-efficient except good Baneling hits (good luck with that, because skill won't help you) or Infestor Fungal Growths (Tanks go LOL and the pre-split Marines breathe a sigh of relief).
On August 28 2011 01:57 pedalpusher wrote:
awesome patch!!!!!
It's about time us toss players got some useful units besides colossus and HT's and voidrays. We really need more options!
hellion nerf is great as well, I always getting owned by hellions and now i know they we totally OP. gj blizzard but best of all if infestor nerf i mean fungal growth dps is insane and so annoying vs my voidrays but now i can waste zergs broodlord np i think XD.
i dont think warp prisms will be useful though, hopefully bilzz will give us some decent harass options in hots.
If it's true and you are trolling, please don't. I hate P enough as it is unless I'm playing it. T.T If you aren't joking, then just NO to everything you said. lol Fucking Colo and HT. Then early VRs... Fuck them! Fuck DTs, fuck warp in, fuck Chrono Boost, fuck Protoss! But when I'm playing Protoss I'm more than happy to abuse their mechanics and units. ^^
On August 28 2011 04:12 Existor wrote:
With blue flame you can still 2 shots zerglings, probes and drones.
I don't understand, why many terrans so over-reacting to small changes. They're extremely small.
In one interview or something similar from Blizzard they're said, that players many times are over-reacting to small balance changes, saying "Now I will never use this unit!!!", but they're mentioned, that nerfed units have still a lot potential, but slighty less effective.
If you won a lot games with unit, that was nerfed, l2p with other strategies.
If your unit gets nerfed, and you learn to play with other strategies, then you're just being a part of the statistic that says players stop using nerfed units right? Shouldn't you be saying "learn to play with other strategies and stop QQing or learn to get better in using your units so that it's still really good"?
On August 28 2011 09:32 Griffith` wrote:
anyone think that mass changelings will be an annoyance from now on?
Maybe if you have like 16 of them going in at once, they'll FINALLY be useful and actually get some scouting information! :O
*In the next GSL finals, IM_NesTea develops a new manner move: the 20 Overseer Mass Changeling Drop into Mass Changeling Dance*
Could you imagine how hilarious that would be? 20 Changeling Zealots dancing at someone's natural. WoW.
On August 28 2011 09:30 mousepad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 09:26 Existor wrote:I was thinking about going protoss but now zerg seems to be so much stronger with bfh nerf. How zergs are stronger with BFH nerf? Can you explain me? You can still 2 shot workers, 2 shot zerglings. So whats changed? Ah, I understand what changed. You morale and the desire to play as terrans. But you can't do simple math, that helions are still good harass unit. Hellions with BF will do 19 damage. Workers have 40hp. Who can't do math numbnuts?
^
Even if Hellions did 20 damage, a single Hellion 3 shots a Drone due to regeneration (with 2+ Hellions, it's still a 1-shot). You can still 2-shot a worker with Blue Flame AND +1 Vehicle Weapons. I'm more interested in how much of a difference this makes in TvT Bio vs Mech. I was actually starting to enjoy the concept of TvT being nothing but mech because it was reminiscent of BW... But I missed how cool bio-based play was.
|
carriers are ok and they are great agenst terran mech.... but problem is WOL is all abouth BIO....
but i think HOTS will be all abouth mech ... so we will see i hope Plenty of carriers in HOTS....
exemple if they add in HOTS super zealots (splash great vs marines maraders) they will start using mech unites ...(hellions should have spider mines up) and with that few litle UP you will see mecha play and after carriers play.... (super zealots to own BIO )...
|
On August 29 2011 19:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:
In the current "metagame" though, Carriers have no place, no matter how strong they would make them. Terran's basic composition is comprised of anti-air galore (marines + vikings). Basically, if you make colossus, you can not make Carriers.
Pretty much this. I still think it was a terrible idea, to make anti-colossus units ALSO be the perfect anti-air unit. It really narrows the game and takes away lategame options for protoss. Not that protoss would be underpowered due to that, but making any colossus into air transition virtually impossible since both vikings and corruptors blind counter it, is - in my opinion - just bad.
Nevertheless that's how Blizz decided to design the game, not much we could do about it.
On August 29 2011 20:15 bole wrote:
exemple if they add in HOTS super zealots (splash great vs marines maraders) they will start using mech unites ...
wut?
|
On August 29 2011 20:17 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 19:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:
In the current "metagame" though, Carriers have no place, no matter how strong they would make them. Terran's basic composition is comprised of anti-air galore (marines + vikings). Basically, if you make colossus, you can not make Carriers. Pretty much this. I still think it was a terrible idea, to make anti-colossus units ALSO be the perfect anti-air unit. It really narrows the game and takes away lategame options for protoss. Not that protoss would be underpowered due to that, but making any colossus into air transition virtually impossible since both vikings and corruptors blind counter it, is - in my opinion - just bad. Nevertheless that's how Blizz decided to design the game, not much we could do about it. Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 20:15 bole wrote:
exemple if they add in HOTS super zealots (splash great vs marines maraders) they will start using mech unites ... wut?
i give an exemple ... if Bio become easy contered by gatewey unites in HOTS .. (blizz will add new upgreads in hots for all races) in metagame... and add some mech up like spider mines or something... then mecha become main army of terran...
after mech become main army of terrans carriers will be usfull agean... super zealots UP (who easy conter bio ) would change gameplay for terrans (that is exemple) and new mech UP would force terran to go mech insted bio... (that is gameplay that i personaly expect in HOTS)
|
Anyone know when patch 1.4 will hit live servers? Couple of weeks or next week ? (doubt it's this week).
|
On August 29 2011 21:43 shannn wrote:
Anyone know when patch 1.4 will hit live servers? Couple of weeks or next week ? (doubt it's this week).
I would like to know this too. Could anyone estimate a guess? Maybe based of previous PTR to live releases? I'd like to have a guess but I genuinely don't remember how long PTRs usually last.
|
Oh yeah! Warp Prism buff! Looking forward to using more of them.
|
On August 29 2011 23:31 sephius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 21:43 shannn wrote:
Anyone know when patch 1.4 will hit live servers? Couple of weeks or next week ? (doubt it's this week). I would like to know this too. Could anyone estimate a guess? Maybe based of previous PTR to live releases? I'd like to have a guess but I genuinely don't remember how long PTRs usually last.
PTR for 1.3.0 went live on the 9th of march, the patch itself started to go live on the 22nd of march.
Thats 13 days so IF 1.4 would act the same way we should see it live early/mid september.
|
On August 29 2011 17:13 Bloody wrote:
I love the +5sec to barracks build time, because that will help zergs a lot.
The extra time to build a barracks is quite interesting and will actually rewrite many current build orders. For 'standard' openings an additional SCV will be trained before the Orbital builds.
|
This patch sounds about right.There was no change where i thought "WTF is this crap".
Warp Prism buff is appreciated even though i play Zerg but that thing really needed a buff.
|
I didn't see tonnes of infestor play at this last MLG; and by tonnes I mean the Destiny-style massing of infestors that has everyone qqing about infestors being OP.
I didn't see every game but the ones I saw there wasn't any degree of fungal use that made infestors seem too strong - in fact, a few games they seemed quite fragile. Banelings certainly did more damage than FG did by far from what I saw.
So, I know one tournament isn't the be-all and end-all of data... but am I off base thinking the nerf (while minor) to FG isn't really necessary?
|
I think it's a damn good patch. It'll be nice to see more warp prisms and immortals.
My only concern is the rax build time. I wonder how that is going to affect Terran's ability to defend against a roach rush or 4 gate... By extending the time to build a rax that's going to cost you a few units and in the early game you need all the units you can get..especially against certain types of rushes. It's also going to rewrite build time (not by much).
|
Happy with the patch, just need a carrier buff but I guess you can't get everything in one patch, maybe the next...
|
On August 30 2011 01:00 p1cKLes wrote:
I think it's a damn good patch. It'll be nice to see more warp prisms and immortals.
My only concern is the rax build time. I wonder how that is going to affect Terran's ability to defend against a roach rush or 4 gate... By extending the time to build a rax that's going to cost you a few units and in the early game you need all the units you can get..especially against certain types of rushes. It's also going to rewrite build time (not by much).
I play zerg and the 5 second nerf to rax build time is just about the perfect amount, so that I have a chance holding off a bomber style bunker rush without losing a ton of mining time, or losing my natural.
At least, that's how i'm viewing it in my brain right now. :D
|
Hmmmmm...this is reaally interesting for zerg...i forsee zergs will begin using many more ultralisks in TvZ instead of broodlords, as for protoss they are finally balanced i would say...i think this closest starcraft 2 has ever been to being entirely balanced minus that nerf on the blank timing which seems unnecessary but blizzard is blizzard.
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
With this patch zergs got great scout - Overseer, that isn't that risky to lose.
|
Wow that looks amazing :D espacially happy about the immortal and warp prism buff (yes, i am a toss  )
Interesting contaminate change, didn't think many people used it, let alone thought it needed a change. I think they just had to up the energy required because it would be too easy to contaminate spam with overseers being that much cheaper.
|
The overseer change is annoying, but will probably make zergs feed like they have better scouting, not like zerglings all over the map don't provide enough vision.
The infestor change will be interesting to see, would prefer them to really slow them down, as high tech casters shouldn't have the mobility of a t1.5 unit.
Hellion nerf is a bit much, 3 shotting workers is fine by me, but 2 shotting zerglings with +1 armor is a must...
|
On August 30 2011 00:56 Mjolnir wrote:
I didn't see tonnes of infestor play at this last MLG; and by tonnes I mean the Destiny-style massing of infestors that has everyone qqing about infestors being OP. There was Coca's infestor-ling attacks. I think that, more than fungal growth, infested terran was really the spell that made the push so frustratingly powerful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
