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On August 11 2011 07:16 shawster wrote:
got the most room for error
chronoboost warpgates are easy mechanics to use. always a chance for agression, good tech, and very solid. you don't have to think as much about transitions and stuff cuz it's natural.
lol chronoboost is easy but in term of macro i'd trade it with doubt reactor and MULE. And chance for aggression is only blink stalkers, tell me which else has the fast enough speed to be aggressive? while lings,mutas banelings roaches drop is so good and cheap, marines/marauders/hellions medic drops are so cost effective and with stim it's faster than any other units.
Good tech, agree, surprise? not so much, toss HAVE TO use colossus or HTs in everygame.
Solid yes, cheap, nah, too expensive and fragile that's why protoss balls have to stick together or get snipe.
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Protoss is often considered the easiest (In my opinion) because it doesnt require a huge amount of micro. Especially most protoss in ladder play, or at least the ones I run into, just turtle until 200/200 and literally a-move. However; I'm not saying that protoss players are completely devoid of micro, you have to have good Forcefields, good blinks, good storms feedbacks and so on to be a successfull player.
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Because as protoss it is beneficial for your units to clumped up in one big 1 hotkey ball and attack move with it. You dont need to spread out your units because protoss have the easiest mechanic in the game of training units (one i think that is completely stupid).
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Wow read through some of the thread and no one has given a really good answer why Protoss macro is deemed to be so easy. People claiming it is not the most micro dependent race are clearly smoking something.
Macro:
Warpgate: Front loads building time. Things still take the same time to build but you get to have the unit first and pay for the time later. It makes grouping units significantly easier for toss. How many games have you seen zergs not handle their rally points and sacrfice free units or just no ball up faster? Toss can most easily ensure their forces remain in a ball/ can't quite a easily be killed by people camping their production.
Everytime you attack as toss when you macro you switch screens. Terran you hit a hotkey and bam 5aaaaadd. What? Terrans have to build out of starports too? Well we have to hotkey robos and stargates too. Nothing special here. The difference is that we are forced to macro well with our warpgates. Terrans can fool themselves by queuing (See goody homestory cup factories). Zerg is a more complex answer. Ideal zerg play would be rememberin to switch screens and inject every time. Alright, I would say remembering that sort of inject is really important but made up by the fact that zerg has the unique ability to produce 50 units at a time. Chrono boost operates in a similar way to inject when it comes to this battle reinforcement. Actually chronoboost hasn't been mastered yet as you can tell by examining the nex energy in most games. This is primarily because even tho bliz designed build times around chrono you do not always have money to use it.
The big shortcoming imo is that you see very few Protoss plays that show a high level of multitask. I can't actually remember a progame where a toss split up his main army and did anything with it. Multiprong DT harass against zergs so that they dont kill the queens or they hit the right things or phoenix play (so tough) are the only exceptions. Macro requires more multitask than terran macro, but that's it.
Micro:
Toss gateway army loses a straight up fight 9/10 times. Your 125/50 stalker does crap against air (2 stalkers per banshee, got I hate even sized groups of mutas) and loses to 70/25 roaches and 100/25 marauders (Not even talking about scaling ups).Once you start throwing in (perfect) FFs, well placed storms (so they don't instantly run out of them or your zealots don't melt) , excellent blink control (so your expensive stalkers stay alive), Feed backs on spell casters, even voidray control, you begin to wonder what this lack of micro people are talking about.
Terran has stutterstep, kinda with emps (so many screw up but insta effect), smart tank positioning*, banshee/reaper control* (comparable with void/stalker control). Vikings require as much micro as collosi do bleh.
Actually name one top level toss that doesn't have impeccable micro? Even Socke who isn't thought of as a top line toss (more for his builds imo) has gorgeous battle micro.
Winrate % back up this story and we're only talking about mechanics.
Edit: any racial buffs will have to be carefully done. Remember the two weeks of moaning about how forcefield shouldnt exist after MC absolutely raped Julyzerg? IF you can display that high level micro, with the right buffs you can be disgustingly efficient if you survive long enough for the units to start competing.
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Press W for macro. And you don't even need any multitasking at all because of warpgates.
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So, I'll come up with a correct fact.
Protoss is good in the fact that 1) Warpgates have no queues
2) Your units aren't supposed to instant die.
Now, here's why Protoss is actually hard to play:
After Gold, deathballs are not so good anymore. Typically because a proper player will realize that Terrans have the better mid-game deathballs.
In addition, Infestors are completely ridiculously strong, but players had been crying until they found out.
With that being said, Protoss is essentially the hardest race to play "well", and by well, I mean at the point where your macro is good enough. Protoss units are quite weak unless they're in balls, and they cannot handle harass well, nor can you go better with their macro ability.
No one has perfect macro, and hence, Zergs' focus on macro will always have more headroom. Meanwhile, you'll always compensate Protoss with a lot of "decision making" from forcefield placement, to deciding what to sacrifice.
So, I'll tell you this: Protoss is the hardest race to play because at the higher levels, you will get thrown into utilizing decision making for the lack of power that Protoss units have in small groups. You cannot drop, harass, and save your units to come back like Terran, nor can you drone back like crazy to recover like Zerg.
WIth that being said, Protoss is the hardest race to play, if you cannot play perfectly.
Can I get an instant warning for players that whine too much that think a balled Protoss is a good thing especially when faced with a line of siege tanks, or better yet ... 10 infestors? =/
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Protoss is the easiest to keep money low, but it can be a bit misleading. Warpgate is arguably the easiest macro mechanic as you don't get punished as much for bad macro, you can chronoboost and get units fast. However, it is the only race that requires you to look away from your army if you want to make more units, unless you have a pylon really close to the army, which you usually won't in lategame situations. Zerg has larva inject, but they don't necessarily have to do it while fighting.
I also find that since Protoss units benefit the most from microing, it often cuts into macro. However, this stuff isn't as important in lower leagues, so yes, I would say protoss is the easiest to pick up. However, to be actually really good at the race I feel like you need really really good mechanics. Since it is the race with the most "spellcasters" (blink stalkers/phoenix included), I think there is still higher potential to be tapped into. Look at the way HuK and MC micros and positions their units in fights, and how they use blink stalkers to harass/delay a Terran army. It is really hard to pull off and losing focus for a couple seconds can be fatal, but when players master these subtle things I think Protoss is a force to be reckoned with.
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It's considered the easiest because their army is so strong, and they don't need an advanced strategy since they can just turtle up all game long. Also macro'ing with protoss is much easier than terran at least - since you can just warp in your units, no queue lol 
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How is macro with Z not the easiest?
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saying no queue for protoss warpgate is entirely false and id recommend playing toss and warping in a unit and trying to warp in another with the same gate instantly after, and plus taking in the actual few seconds it takes for the said warped in unit takes before usable and if anything a queue makes it easier to macro so you are just proving protoss warpgates are actually harder to macro since there is no queue~~~~~~~
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Any race that has builds you can play every game is easy.
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I'm a high master zerg, and i started playing random and protoss was so easy that I could easily compete at that level even though i had never played them before, i just copied what i had seen. terran on the other hand is extremely hard and i can only play terran at the diamond level
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It's an old myth from the BW days.For sc2 there are lot of opions, for example Nestea said some month ago, it is really hard to become good with protoss, but when you are good with them you are unbeatable...
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On August 11 2011 07:48 Skelephile wrote:
I'm a high master zerg, and i started playing random and protoss was so easy that I could easily compete at that level even though i had never played them before, i just copied what i had seen. terran on the other hand is extremely hard and i can only play terran at the diamond level
SC2ranks?
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why is this thread still open?
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Warping in + strong gateway units (at least early game)
Cannons that shoot up, down while detecting.
Those facts make Protoss always dangerous
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On August 11 2011 07:41 Termit wrote:
Press W for macro. And you don't even need any multitasking at all because of warpgates.
Press 3 for macro, aaaaaadd
Press 4 for macro, srrrrrrrrrr
Press W for macro, shift S clickclickclick
I fail to see your point...
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1a. Has the most well rounded unit (stalker)
1b. Has the most well rounded static defense
2. Units instantly where you need it
3. Usually only one building that you need a lot of (Gateway/Warpgates)
4. Cronoboost arguably less important than the other 2 macro mechanics at lower level
5. One worker can build n buildings instantly, easy to catch up if you were thrown off rythm
I guess. Generally there is less decision making required due to the allround units/buildings/static defenses than there is with Zerg and less mechanics required to keep up with the build cycles/add-ons/depot building there is with Terran. It's a big blow when you don't macro during a battle as terran and need to take X workers offline to build all sorts of buildings.
The biggest point though is the versatility of the stalker. I would also argue that the hard counters to the stuff the other races have is more detrimental.
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On August 11 2011 07:41 Termit wrote:
Press W for macro. And you don't even need any multitasking at all because of warpgates.
ppl like you make protoss looks bad and yourself look like a fool....
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EPT
