EPT
Why is protoss considered to be the "easiest race" - Page 17
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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rfoster
United States1005 Posts
But i guess i could answer your question, they have the most noob friendly units. You could have no idea what your doing an make colossus because "ooh cool giant robot w/ lasers" | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On August 11 2011 07:17 ffadicted wrote: Mid Levels (Diamond-Low Masters) Hardest race is Protoss. Colossi are no longer free win units that counter ground, your abusive play can now be stopped by smart players, and you are stuck rushing to tier 3 units to counter sh*t that costs 25 gas. Mass roach and Mass bio will give you nightmares, especially now that players can actually multitask and realize that they don't have to sit in their base until one big battle to end the game. Protoss has to be familiar with the most amount of timings and has to constantly look for ways to get even the smallest advantage, or they're f*cked. Least effective a-move units at this points honestly. Easiest is Zerg. Zerg definitly knows how to inject and balance drones/units at this point, and begin to abuse their macro mechanics here. They can now read and scout their opponent properly and hold most all-ins, and if left alone, at this point it starts to be free wins for zerg. They can use and abuse 300/200 pushes and know the values of hive tech. Infestors. nuff said. This is where I am at and I am a diamond toss player who was formerly diamond Terran and diamond random. ffaddicted adequately expresses my feelings on playing toss and zerg. I don't understand the a-move stereotype surrounding toss; nor do I understand the sentiment that collosi are game-ending units. Both Z and T are so adept at taking out collosi that I often avoid making them or find myself MADLY microing to keep them alive. All-in-all, from a player who tried random out for quite awhile, toss, for me, requires the most intensive micro to FF, deal with drops, keep units alive in the face of a stimming T or a swarming Z, cast fb on infestors, storm on kiting bioballs. And map awareness...even with pylons all over the map to get vision, it is so hard to maintain it. I need my robo for other units. Snipe my obs and I will struggle. | ||
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lazydino
Canada331 Posts
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Tomfour
United States173 Posts
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
On August 11 2011 07:40 Sabu113 wrote: Wow read through some of the thread and no one has given a really good answer why Protoss macro is deemed to be so easy. People claiming it is not the most micro dependent race are clearly smoking something. Macro: Warpgate: Front loads building time. Things still take the same time to build but you get to have the unit first and pay for the time later. It makes grouping units significantly easier for toss. How many games have you seen zergs not handle their rally points and sacrfice free units or just no ball up faster? Toss can most easily ensure their forces remain in a ball/ can't quite a easily be killed by people camping their production. Everytime you attack as toss when you macro you switch screens. Terran you hit a hotkey and bam 5aaaaadd. What? Terrans have to build out of starports too? Well we have to hotkey robos and stargates too. Nothing special here. The difference is that we are forced to macro well with our warpgates. Terrans can fool themselves by queuing (See goody homestory cup factories). Zerg is a more complex answer. Ideal zerg play would be rememberin to switch screens and inject every time. Alright, I would say remembering that sort of inject is really important but made up by the fact that zerg has the unique ability to produce 50 units at a time. Chrono boost operates in a similar way to inject when it comes to this battle reinforcement. Actually chronoboost hasn't been mastered yet as you can tell by examining the nex energy in most games. This is primarily because even tho bliz designed build times around chrono you do not always have money to use it. The big shortcoming imo is that you see very few Protoss plays that show a high level of multitask. I can't actually remember a progame where a toss split up his main army and did anything with it. Multiprong DT harass against zergs so that they dont kill the queens or they hit the right things or phoenix play (so tough) are the only exceptions. Macro requires more multitask than terran macro, but that's it. Micro: Toss gateway army loses a straight up fight 9/10 times. Your 125/50 stalker does crap against air (2 stalkers per banshee, got I hate even sized groups of mutas) and loses to 70/25 roaches and 100/25 marauders (Not even talking about scaling ups).Once you start throwing in (perfect) FFs, well placed storms (so they don't instantly run out of them or your zealots don't melt) , excellent blink control (so your expensive stalkers stay alive), Feed backs on spell casters, even voidray control, you begin to wonder what this lack of micro people are talking about. Terran has stutterstep, kinda with emps (so many screw up but insta effect), smart tank positioning*, banshee/reaper control* (comparable with void/stalker control). Vikings require as much micro as collosi do bleh. Actually name one top level toss that doesn't have impeccable micro? Even Socke who isn't thought of as a top line toss (more for his builds imo) has gorgeous battle micro. Winrate % back up this story and we're only talking about mechanics. Edit: any racial buffs will have to be carefully done. Remember the two weeks of moaning about how forcefield shouldnt exist after MC absolutely raped Julyzerg? IF you can display that high level micro, with the right buffs you can be disgustingly efficient if you survive long enough for the units to start competing. Watch Huk, he splits into 3 and sometimes 4 hotkeys and uses them extremely effectively. Edit: Other than that I think you made some good points. I wasn't tryint to troll  | ||
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Laurence
Ireland119 Posts
Protoss is also very easy to macro with because of chrono boost and the warp gate mechanic, where as larva injects and keeping all your buildings producing as terran is a lot harder | ||
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Termit
Sweden3466 Posts
On August 11 2011 07:52 Ruscour wrote: Press 3 for macro, aaaaaadd Press 4 for macro, srrrrrrrrrr Press W for macro, shift S clickclickclick I fail to see your point... The point is, you only have to press W and then the hotkey for your unit. No multitasking and queing (Terran) and no overdroning and feeling for when you're gonna save up larvae for units or go for drones (Zerg). | ||
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tsarnicky
104 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:39 aderum wrote: 4 gate wont win you a single game against a good zerg/terran. nor will a 6gate, both races have figured out a long time ago how to hold that. +2wep 7 blinkstalkers is a much better "cheese" if we are talking cheeses, but thats mostly against zerg.. ... so there reason why people still 4gate v z and p is? Maybe cuz they're crazy on second thought your the crazy one (if you want evidence i just saw HuK beat some T w/ a 4gate) | ||
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
On August 11 2011 07:57 lazydino wrote: Chronoboost is actually the hardest macro mechanic. Every korean pro gosu protoss will still have an abundance of energy in the lategame. i agree with this. mules and scans and injects you just use when you have the energy to, like an inject finishes, you inject again, its simple. one mule runs out, you call down another mule. easy. But with chrono, especially in the late game, a chrono will run out, and the upgrade might finish, then you have to chrono something else | ||
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
On August 11 2011 07:17 ffadicted wrote: High diamond random player here, lemme break down my opinion Low Levels (Bronze-Silver): Hardest race is Zerg, without question. Nobody can properly larva inject at this point, because larva inject is so good that if they could they wouldn't be in this level lol What's this, air units? How come nothing I have hits air? What's a spore crawler? I can make more than one queen lol? Totally did not scout this 14 minute 8 voidray "timing attack". Why are merinz so strong? When I attack tank, why everything die? Imbuuuuuu Easiest race is Protoss. Easy and very forgiving macro mechanic, warp in, buff units that will generally win most small engagements, most accessible and easy to use tier 3, Colossi murder everything at this point. Mid-Low Levels (Gold-Plat) Hardest race is Terran. At this point most people know what counters what and how to scout sh*t semi descently. Problem is, stuff is REALLY good against terran when terran can't micro properly. Banelings and infestors will dominate ZvT because i dunno h2split and leapfrog??? Also this is around the time where zerg players start getting scary when they're not harrassed, and terrans at this level just won't have the necessary clean and efficient harrass and timings that they need to really punish the other player. Same problem goes for splash damage in PvT. Easiest race is probably still protoss, but I think at this point they tie with Zerg. Protoss can still win a lot of games with mainly abusive things, but when talking macro game (which should be starting around this level), Zergs will benefit from being left alone a lot of the time, and also from the effective A-move nature of their swarm at this point. They just can't remax like they should. Mid Levels (Diamond-Low Masters) Hardest race is Protoss. Colossi are no longer free win units that counter ground, your abusive play can now be stopped by smart players, and you are stuck rushing to tier 3 units to counter sh*t that costs 25 gas. Mass roach and Mass bio will give you nightmares, especially now that players can actually multitask and realize that they don't have to sit in their base until one big battle to end the game. Protoss has to be familiar with the most amount of timings and has to constantly look for ways to get even the smallest advantage, or they're f*cked. Least effective a-move units at this points honestly. Easiest is Zerg. Zerg definitly knows how to inject and balance drones/units at this point, and begin to abuse their macro mechanics here. They can now read and scout their opponent properly and hold most all-ins, and if left alone, at this point it starts to be free wins for zerg. They can use and abuse 300/200 pushes and know the values of hive tech. Infestors. nuff said. Mid-High levels (High Masters - Low GM) and High levels (Foreign Pro) Can't comment on this span as well as the others, but it would seem that it's quite even, with zerg players least knowing how to effectively use their race (you constantly see foreign pros making huge mistakes korean pros would never make), and protoss players knowing how to most effectively use theirs. Highest Level (Korea Pro) May the best player win, your race is as good as you are, no excuses play like a champion. Slight advantage to terran for most reflecting a player's skill and having the most options available (nothing to do with being easier, it just lets you be a more dynamic player, which helps a ton once you keep playing the same players). Only reason why terrans dominate is because yes, they actually do have the best players, and it's not hard to tell that lol This is an excellent post. | ||
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EliteReplay
Dominican Republic913 Posts
On August 11 2011 07:17 ffadicted wrote: High diamond random player here, lemme break down my opinion Low Levels (Bronze-Silver): Hardest race is Zerg, without question. Nobody can properly larva inject at this point, because larva inject is so good that if they could they wouldn't be in this level lol What's this, air units? How come nothing I have hits air? What's a spore crawler? I can make more than one queen lol? Totally did not scout this 14 minute 8 voidray "timing attack". Why are merinz so strong? When I attack tank, why everything die? Imbuuuuuu Easiest race is Protoss. Easy and very forgiving macro mechanic, warp in, buff units that will generally win most small engagements, most accessible and easy to use tier 3, Colossi murder everything at this point. Mid-Low Levels (Gold-Plat) Hardest race is Terran. At this point most people know what counters what and how to scout sh*t semi descently. Problem is, stuff is REALLY good against terran when terran can't micro properly. Banelings and infestors will dominate ZvT because i dunno h2split and leapfrog??? Also this is around the time where zerg players start getting scary when they're not harrassed, and terrans at this level just won't have the necessary clean and efficient harrass and timings that they need to really punish the other player. Same problem goes for splash damage in PvT. Easiest race is probably still protoss, but I think at this point they tie with Zerg. Protoss can still win a lot of games with mainly abusive things, but when talking macro game (which should be starting around this level), Zergs will benefit from being left alone a lot of the time, and also from the effective A-move nature of their swarm at this point. They just can't remax like they should. Mid Levels (Diamond-Low Masters) Hardest race is Protoss. Colossi are no longer free win units that counter ground, your abusive play can now be stopped by smart players, and you are stuck rushing to tier 3 units to counter sh*t that costs 25 gas. Mass roach and Mass bio will give you nightmares, especially now that players can actually multitask and realize that they don't have to sit in their base until one big battle to end the game. Protoss has to be familiar with the most amount of timings and has to constantly look for ways to get even the smallest advantage, or they're f*cked. Least effective a-move units at this points honestly. Easiest is Zerg. Zerg definitly knows how to inject and balance drones/units at this point, and begin to abuse their macro mechanics here. They can now read and scout their opponent properly and hold most all-ins, and if left alone, at this point it starts to be free wins for zerg. They can use and abuse 300/200 pushes and know the values of hive tech. Infestors. nuff said. Mid-High levels (High Masters - Low GM) and High levels (Foreign Pro) Can't comment on this span as well as the others, but it would seem that it's quite even, with zerg players least knowing how to effectively use their race (you constantly see foreign pros making huge mistakes korean pros would never make), and protoss players knowing how to most effectively use theirs. Highest Level (Korea Pro) May the best player win, your race is as good as you are, no excuses play like a champion. Slight advantage to terran for most reflecting a player's skill and having the most options available (nothing to do with being easier, it just lets you be a more dynamic player, which helps a ton once you keep playing the same players). Only reason why terrans dominate is because yes, they actually do have the best players, and it's not hard to tell that lol This is actually 100% true | ||
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LisKelicious
Germany36 Posts
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
The hardest matchup i've experienced is TvZ, which is so much more demanding for the terran player if the zerg survives the initial timings. Before 12 minutes it's easier for the terran but as soon as you cross that timeing without dealing enough damage terran becomes such a burden to play against zerg. Let the losers rage. Toss ain't easy. | ||
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
I can beat him every game because 4gates are easy to beat unless i play super stupid and greedy/dont scout it (and i know its all he does). He got 4th place in a cup last week, beating a masters zerg and terran by 4gating 3 games in a row vs each, and finally lost to satini offracing as zerg (unless he switched, i havent seen him around in forever). That is why protoss is considered the easiest race. | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On August 11 2011 05:14 HentaiPrime wrote: ![[image loading]](http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/starcraft-ii/171927d1305652662-protoss-strategies-replays-protosskeyboardsmul4.jpg) and ![[image loading]](http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/starcraft-ii/171928d1305652662-protoss-strategies-replays-forcefield.jpg) now you're set! that's why i play protoss, zerg is way too hard and u can't 1a seige tanks Ahhahahahhahha wow okay I actually did laugh out loud. Yes, I had to spell it out because usually when I say "lol" it does not mean I laughed aloud... That is hilarious and props if it's your own original content | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
Before you go around trying to say that protoss isn't easier than the other races, you should play the other races, pheonix micro doesn't even require a-move, you can do it all with right click and the minimap, you have freaking map hacks with observers to scout for you, no need to even bother microing lings/marines around the map/guessing with scans to try to find the enemy army, you just always know where it is. The simplest of things, defending drops, can be done simply by having warpgates, no units need to be in position, no extra preparation had to happen. Personally I think that the basic production and micro mechanics of the protoss units are too powerful for how easy they are to use, if they could make the power of the protoss units more based off of the skill of the player using them the game would be a lot more balanced. | ||
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isospeedrix
United States215 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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Spekulatius
Germany2413 Posts
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