|
On August 11 2011 05:24 JustinHit wrote:
Yes protoss can do drops like warp prism zealot/dt drops however it isnt common. The reason for this is the Main army is so strong it can likely just win the game for you. So you dont need that High APM of looking at multiple places at once.
No, the reason for that is that drop mechanics are completely cost innefective for Protoss. You get a warp prism and load up 4 zealots/stalkers? What's that gonna do to a mineral line beforecyou get picked off? And if you warp-in more units with the WP for harassment you're basically saying you're gonna throw away units because you can't transport them back, and Protoss units aren't cheap at all. And that's all assuming the WP even makes it to the enemy's base and doesn't get killed first for being a slow-ass unit and made of paper.
The main army is so strong, like someone said earlier, because it needs to be so strong for fear of not being strong at all. The Protoss units complement each other in a deathball and each one of them alone doesn't do shit, and since they're all slow compared to other races' units, they really need to stick together to not get caught in a bad positioning and get murdered. That's why you only see deathballs, Protoss cannot afford to split its army because it doesn't have the ability to gain terrain like Terran or the mobility of Zerg. And that's why you'll never see from Protoss stuff like 50 siege tanks from Terran or 200 banelings from Zerg.
|
So why does the Starcraft II starter let you play Terran only?? If Protoss is so EZ why not have you play Protoss 
Also in Starcraft 1 you played Terran first, Protoss was the last race to play
Personally I think what Race you choose is dependant on how comfortable you feel with it and whether it fits your play style. I have been playing since the beginning of Stacraft and Protoss is still my preferred race and not because it is easy. I just like the units and the character they have. Also it is the only race with nice shiny blue crystals
Why was there no Protoss players in the finals of MLG??? Seems most finals these days involve Terran! You'd think that if Protoss is so EZ win the Protoss players should have made the finals right?
Bottom line: SC2 no matter what race you play involves a lot of multitasking!
|
On August 11 2011 07:59 Termit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 07:52 Ruscour wrote:On August 11 2011 07:41 Termit wrote:
Press W for macro. And you don't even need any multitasking at all because of warpgates. Press 3 for macro, aaaaaadd Press 4 for macro, srrrrrrrrrr Press W for macro, shift S clickclickclick I fail to see your point... The point is, you only have to press W and then the hotkey for your unit. No multitasking and queing (Terran) and no overdroning and feeling for when you're gonna save up larvae for units or go for drones (Zerg).
On the other hand, being able to queue/not having to leave screen is extremely nice when microing.
I don't want to miss warp-gate timings, but that means I've got to leave my army for 2-3 seconds while warping in. And most games you will have a robo/stargate producing, so you have to "multitask" that as well. Scrolling hotkeys are nicer than having to switch position.
|
All I can say is that I switched from Z to P (high diamond) and P is much easier for me personally. It took me only a few weeks to get to the point where I was actually playing better with P than I ever have Z (which I was playing since beta). Yes ffadicted makes some good points but just because you can't a-move anymore for a free win doesn't mean the unit control ever actually gets harder on P than Z. It will always be easier to put down good forcefields than avoid getting trapped by them in much the same way that casting psi storms is easier than dodging them.
Yes it is true that Zergs get harder when they can actually use their powerful macro mechanics but you can use all that "free apm" that you aren't using to spread creep/inject/set up new bases to harass/feign aggression to throw most zergs at diamond off their game.
|
If anything protoss has the hardest macro, not only you have to look alway from the battle, but warpgate works like inject in the way that if you remenber to warp/inject 3-4s earlier you can't queue, you have to wait. and if you forget like 3-4s after the cooldawn the time is lost forever, if you have 8 gateways and it took you 4s to warp in, you lost a zealot.
|
It's not easy at the high levels, it's easy at the lower levels because you can spam more warpgates than you can use and use them to make up for not hitting proper warp in timings, and they'll be with your army. But it's also the same for drones. At 1000 minerals? Luckily when your larva pop you can just invest it all at once. It's also powerful in a ball. Top level it's as hard as anything else. If you are macroing properly and get dropped and your army is out of position, whoops, not like you can reset your cooldowns. But when you face off against people of other races who don't a-move into your a-move, large army micro is fast and intense. Also chronoboost doesn't matter in the lower levels since it'll still be done, just slower, but getting something nearby be it probes or an upgrade every 25 energy per nexus exactly is harder than dropping a mule every 50 energy on a mineral patch. Plus the early game is difficult, so few units and all of them are precious, yet weak in such low numbers.
|
I am a diamond protoss player who has recently switched to zerg (only gold-plat for zerg) and i find the macro mechanics much much more forgiving for zerg.
Lose 10 drones? no problem get them back with your next 2 larva injects then start pumping units like nothing has happened. And if larva is a problem because of that get another hatch.
Plus its so easy to just press 4s d,z,r, h W/e it is. The thing with protoss is you actually have to go back to your base to warp in units, where as when i play zerg i can be attacking and still watching my units while i do it. I dunno zerg suits me alot better and i think in no time it will be above protoss on my level.
|
I think it is just stupid to argue which race is easier to play.
Topics like this will start useless "my race is harder to play for sure" arguments
|
Protoss lategame army involves the least amount of micro by far. I'd say Terran requires the most. I don't know how people possibly think that Protoss involves the most micro. I'd say it involves the least, and FF's aren't even remotely hard to do well imo from the experience I've had playing them I almost always have had near PERFECT FF's. Watching GSL also I see nigh perfect FF's, they almost never fuck them up. I'm not saying Protoss is imba by any means, but for ease of play...
On August 11 2011 08:15 cheesemaster wrote:
I am a diamond protoss player who has recently switched to zerg (only gold-plat for zerg) and i find the macro mechanics much much more forgiving for zerg.
Lose 10 drones? no problem get them back with your next 2 larva injects then start pumping units like nothing has happened. And if larva is a problem because of that get another hatch.
Plus its so easy to just press 4s d,z,r, h W/e it is. The thing with protoss is you actually have to go back to your base to warp in units, where as when i play zerg i can be attacking and still watching my units while i do it. I dunno zerg suits me alot better and i think in no time it will be above protoss on my level.
Despite me finding chroning probes ridiculously easy (teehee), the actual macro mechanic is inject, which is the least forgiving of the three. It's not debatable. Losing ten drones and remaking them easier than toss or terran is not related to the macro mechanic ease of use.
|
Allowing room for more apm does not mean a race is harder to play. I usually hover around 130-140 apm when i use terran or zerg but i only have about 100-120 as protoss because the is just less stuff that you can get away with
Protoss units are so expensive that sometimes its just not worth risking them to do small harass.
APM is not indicative of how hard a race is to play. Most of the game is not mechanically hard once you get good at a race. The hard part is decision making.
|
Protoss units are strong.
|
protoss takes most thinking imo. No composition is good against everything (MMM), so you have to really spend your resources and think about your tech choices more carefully. Zerg thinks they have alot skill because of constant macro (larva injects, lots of droning, creep spread) but their micro is BY FAR the easiest.
|
If you say so you basically say the game is imbalanced... and I as a Protoss basically say T is easiest race to play
|
Because with the other races you have spawn larva and mules which need to be used at regular times to keep up to pace with each other. Whereas with chrono boost you can let the energy get up to 100 and you can still win which is pretty ****.
|
It's pretty simple in my perspective: If you're Zerg you have very few abusive wins to fall back on (2 rax bunker rush all in? 4 gate? Charge rush?) which means Zerg players in the mid-range leagues (high platinum to low masters) have to just be better than a lot of their opponents to win. As Terran you have to really dominate your opponent and constantly have a threatening army; if you don't, your opponent will just come right in and ruin your day. Protoss can sit around until THEY want with next-to-zero fear of game-ending harass before then.
That doesn't mean that Protoss is easier! It simply means that when a Protoss losses, it's almost always not their fault (again, in the mid-range leagues.) It's their opponent's for being better than them. When a Protoss player wins, it means the other player screwed up, and that pisses people off.
|
On August 11 2011 08:10 TazmanNZL wrote:So why does the Starcraft II starter let you play Terran only?? If Protoss is so EZ why not have you play Protoss Also in Starcraft 1 you played Terran first, Protoss was the last race to play Personally I think what Race you choose is dependant on how comfortable you feel with it and whether it fits your play style. I have been playing since the beginning of Stacraft and Protoss is still my preferred race and not because it is easy. I just like the units and the character they have. Also it is the only race with nice shiny blue crystals Why was there no Protoss players in the finals of MLG??? Seems most finals these days involve Terran! You'd think that if Protoss is so EZ win the Protoss players should have made the finals right? Bottom line: SC2 no matter what race you play involves a lot of multitasking!
Starcraft 2 Starter lets you play Terran most likely because of the fact that Wings of Liberty is the name of the game, with Terran being the focal point of the entire storyline. If you ever watched the first previews, they chose Terran for the first race because the overall idea that its an "easier campaign" since terrans can just be sent on multiple missions and thrown around (and look how well that turned out: A crappy campaign).
Of course in the end, being comfortable with a race is whats going to make you excel at it, because it will make you want to play better. Also, MLG was all korean terrans, so its expected to see Terrans at the top if all the korean invitationals are terran.
Think before you post.
Protoss is probably the easiest race because of its mechanics. On the forefront, hotkeys are already prepared for protoss players with the warp-gate mechanic, and phoenix fire on the move, just requiring right clicks. Resource flooding is also a lot more tolerated for protoss on lower levels because of warp gate mechanics allowing fast resource drain with instant reinforcement time. Reinforcement pathing doesn't need to be catered to, since proxy pylons will allow instant reinforcement times. All their units can be selected into one major hotkey, since colossus don't need to enter siege mode, and don't have unit collision so formation control isn't necessary. Their scout is an invisible observer, and they can end multiple games with just dark-templar harass. Two major instant hit aoe: Colossus + High Templar. Chrono boost to make up for mistakes in forge ugprades.
Of course, many of these are for balance as well so i'm not complaining. I'm merely stating why its much simpler for protoss to control their army and base in lower leagues; But most poeple who complain about protoss being an easy race are just complaining for their loss.
But in the end, most of protoss tech pathing forces specific responses from other races. There aren't many units that force protoss to respond in a specific pattern as much as say zerg or terran, who if they dont respond to DTs, Collo rush, Void ray Rush, or 4 gate, they will most likely lose.
|
On August 11 2011 08:11 ribboo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 07:59 Termit wrote:On August 11 2011 07:52 Ruscour wrote:On August 11 2011 07:41 Termit wrote:
Press W for macro. And you don't even need any multitasking at all because of warpgates. Press 3 for macro, aaaaaadd Press 4 for macro, srrrrrrrrrr Press W for macro, shift S clickclickclick I fail to see your point... The point is, you only have to press W and then the hotkey for your unit. No multitasking and queing (Terran) and no overdroning and feeling for when you're gonna save up larvae for units or go for drones (Zerg). On the other hand, being able to queue/not having to leave screen is extremely nice when microing. I don't want to miss warp-gate timings, but that means I've got to leave my army for 2-3 seconds while warping in. And most games you will have a robo/stargate producing, so you have to "multitask" that as well. Scrolling hotkeys are nicer than having to switch position.
Yes I recently started playing Terran more and it's really nice to be able to macro while pushing and micro-ing with your army at the same time. Every time you look back in your base there is half a new army ready again.
|
To those out there saying protoss should drop more, you need not look further than what happens to protoss when a single mm drop comes down and the army is out of position. How many protoss units does it take to kill off a drop cost effectively?
Protoss as a race does not reward offensive multitasking at all. Our units don't actually function well outside of a ball. It rewards defensive multitasking, but why is that? Zerg has the ability to split off 16 lings and run into the 3rd while dancing outside the protoss natural, because they know that their army is faster and can run away. The lings can chase down workers so even with instant reaction time, they still lose workers. The same goes for a MM drop. On the other hand, 4 zealots go into a mineral line. With the same reaction time, you lose zero workers.
The notion that protoss is easy comes from people who don't understand why protoss has to play this style.
|
Whenever people tell my protoss is easy to play, I just have them try play protoss against my terran, or my zerg. Hilarity ensues when I beat them with half my usual apm doing the most abusive strats.
Protoss is the hardest race to master, bar none. Look at GSL results if you want to see how hard the protosses are having it.
|
Protoss is unarguably the easiest race to play low masters and below. Sit on 3 base, max out, and go. Every other race has to constantly harass and scout to keep the toss in check. T and Z are also, generally, reactive to toss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
