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Anyone that says that protoss is the "easy" race either never played toss, are in a lower league, or an idiot.
The macro game of toss is pretty much copy/paste from terran macro.
The micro game is also the same difficulty having to keep slower units infront of the faster stalkers compared to the stutter stepping of mm.
In conclusion, what I'm trying to say is if you scrape of all the skins all races have the same general function:
1.)Build Workers
2.)Build Fighting units
3.).....
4.)Profit
And they all have different drawbacks and strengths that make them balanced.
*I don't think I really made the point I wanted to with this but it is posted.
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So i playd a half year random, and i think u cant say there is a easiest race. It depends if its beginning, mid or late game.
At the beginning Terran is the easiest race but as Protoss u often have a hard time if there comes a 3 rax push or 6 pool, because then u realy must micro. But in the late game its very easy with Protoss.
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On August 11 2011 06:50 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 06:45 aderum wrote:On August 11 2011 06:42 wei2coolman wrote:On August 11 2011 06:41 aderum wrote:On August 11 2011 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Press "w" "s" click, repeat, "s" click", until warpgates are on cooldown.
This is why. and this is harder than pressing "5" "s" "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" ? Roaches don't pop out instantly, nor do they blink around. You do realize that warpgate has cooldown? and that you can reproduce 50 roches at one, while you only can reproduce as many stalkers as you have gateways. I cant really understand how you would say that protoss is so easy when GSL is dominated by zerg and terran. This is just batshit crasy. GSL is not dominated by zerg and terran.
until this moment the little remaining protosses in code s are getting crushed by inferior adversaries playing different races. MC and Alicia getting 4th??? That is just crazy.
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On August 12 2011 00:44 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 00:40 Slago wrote:
first off you say your in silver league, so when you say things like "protoss micro is harder" isn't really a solid fact, just based off your opinion, and if you're in silver, or even below diamond you're micro could be so much improved, aswell as so many other aspects of the game so to make these statements at your level is ludicrous.
But what makes protoss the easiest is first off how you warp in buildings, not requiring to pay attention to building making so you don't lose a worker or take one off mining, also warp gates don't need to be hotkeyed, they can be warped in anywhere instantly, chronoboost makes probe production way quicker, and very little required micro when going for a death ball, just 1 A, and even when going templar tech, the micro is 1 A, than storm and click or feedback, not really hard.
I don't think protoss is imba but it is definately the easiest race to play you clearly havent played Protoss at all so shouldnt even bother posting in this thread if you think they only need to press 1 A to win. If thats so how come they ahev losing streaks in GSL and have lsoing records in the last month vs both Zerg and terrans proven in a similar thead from liquids own TLPD. Come to think of it after reading the last 5 comments from anti protoss lovers im not goign to post in this thread ever again eithier. Complete and utter clueless people posting here, this thread should be closed as its going nowhere at all. Misinformed people whining about whos race is the easiest biased.
it's funny cause your post was completely pointless, you didn't counter anything I said, you just said I was an idiot and shouldn't post here, not once did I say that protoss was winning alot, maybe you should learn top read a post before you reply, right now the game feels really balanced, maybe a few tweaks, but honestly if you play better than you're opponent you will win 95% of the time.
since you can't understand what I was saying let me spell it out, the compositions protoss use right now are deathballs with collos/voids, or deathballs with temps/archons, obviously there are other strats built that is what is hugely prodominent right now, especially after seeing only those comps in the GSTL this morning. with those compositions there i9s very little micro besides blink/ff/storm, all of which are fairly simple.
they do only need to press 1A to win in low leagues like diamond and below, that doesn't work higher up, but it still makes them the easiest, not the most powerful but the easiest
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 00:17 crocodile wrote:First of all, IdrA's balance complaints are not to be ignored. The guy understands the game incredibly well and to imply that he doesn't or is just biased is ignorant, especially coming from a silver-leaguer who knows essentially nothing about how zerg or terran are played. Protoss is easy relatively to the other races. As Zerg, you need to outsmart and outmacro your opponent. It's incredibly hard to cheese, or win without playing greedily, scouting is incredibly important (your units are not cost-effective and can be countered easily), missing injects is incredibly punishing, and you need a lot of APM to macro, spread creep, scout, and micro your units. Terran is harder than Protoss as well. Terran micro is incredibly difficult compared to even Zerg micro but especially Protoss micro (a-move, f+click and/or t+click). Terran and Zerg reward good multitasking very well, as Terran you need to micro drops, macro units, build depots consistently and que scvs back to mining, have very organized building placement, not to mention use of scans effectively, knowing when to siege up, when to stim, how many marines/marauders to stim in a given situation, the amount that you're punished for being out of position, etc. By contrast, as Protoss I've been using this new strategy where I roll two dice to see how many gates I allin with, add tech appropriately, and this seems to work really well. 2 gate zealots, 3 gate stargate, 4 gate, 5 gate zealot-sentry, 6 gate, 7 gate blink, 8 gate blink, 9+ 3 base turtle to colossus sentry stalker. Also, Show nested quote +
- All unit producing structures are similar in difficulty. Just press a key and units are made.
- You forget that during a battle you have to micro your sentries put up well placed forcefileds, as well as make sure your high templars don't get emp'd or fungaled. Also you have to make sure vikings, or corruptors don't get at your collosi and do too much damage.
- A chrono boost doesn't automatically catch you up and put you ahead economically. Missing probe production hurts you just as much as it would if you are a terran not producing scv's or a zerg missing a drones.
- "Forgiving units with shields allow you a second chance to back off which terran doesn't allow."
Well there are these wonderful things called medivacs and they kinda do the same thing as regenerating shileds accept at a faster rate. Zerg also regenerates hp but at a similar rate to shields.
-Your micro complaints (FFs, moving templar and colossi) require essentially no APM. -Larva injects don't do that either, they barely keep you even, and terran can't make workers as fast so mules are needed. -Zerg units do not regenerate HP NEARLY as fast as Protoss shields. You reveal your ignorance when you say things like this. Also medivacs need to be built (100mins/100gas) and kept alive and use energy and don't affect all units, shields have none of these problems. You reveal your ignorance when you say things like this.
On August 12 2011 00:34 Cofo wrote:I think the fact that there's 42 pages and counting of arguing is pretty good proof in itself that there is no easiest race. Not sure how this thread is even still open. Not to be a hypocrite by continuing the argument or anything, but this post is upsetting me, so I'm going to address it. (Edit: Evidently I'm not the first one to do so.) Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 23:26 Olsson wrote:
- Simplest production. Press w, S, hold shift, spam anywhere on the map sort of.
Spam anywhere on the map? Terran don't have to spam anywhere on the map AT ALL. Press 4 and spam A, no clicks required. (Not that number of clicks in a production cycle is in any way indicative of difficulty) How convenient of you to forget sentries, HT, and phoenix. Show nested quote +- Simplest mechanics, oops forgot some probes ill just chrono some out and i'll be back on top of economy. Because having 5 super SCVs instantly fall from the sky for free is so much different? Show nested quote +- Forgiving units with shields allow you a second chance to back off which terran doesn't allow. Medivacs? Mech repair? Show nested quote +- Great tech switches if you go down the wrong path and get C but your army would die to B. You warp in some, and get immortals instead of collossi for composition A. ... what? I know it might sound like I'm complaining Terran is easy, but I'm not. Just trying to point out how biased your post is. I don't think there is an "easiest race." I play random.
This.
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I do think Protoss is the easiest race at lower levels like Diamond or Master League and below; but likely harder at the highest level of play.
It's like BW.
Terran was unbelievably hard for average players in BW while Protoss seemed like a cake-walk. At the pro-level, though, Terran was (is?) very dominant. Zerg floated somewhere in the middle.
Now, if I were to look at the difficulty of races for the average player, I'd say it was something like:
Protoss - easiest
Terran - average
Zerg - hardest
Reason being, in my opinion, is that Protoss gets the furthest off the fewest bases once they're established behind a wall or natural expo defence. Nobody seems to rush these days, it's all macro, macro, macro (again, talking about lower leagues). So, once Protoss gets that magical number of colossi and VRs, they can pretty much just roll over an opponent that hasn't figured out how to pressure them beforehand. Something that's pretty hard for people in lower leagues.
So, I think the discussion shouldn't be about why Protoss is easiest (or considered such) but why it's considered such at specific levels of skill. I'd be willing to bet that race performance changes dramatically for all races across the various leagues.
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On August 12 2011 00:30 Krede wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 05:07 jonathan1 wrote:
in my opinion, it's because they don't have the ability to move out of their base with small amounts of units to harass very well. we can see much more multi-tasking from terran and zerg players while protoss tend to sit in their base more and just focus on macro. Warp prism and phoenix...no sure what else to say
Do you even watch SC2? Who the hell uses warp prism, besides white ra.
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On August 11 2011 05:12 DannyJ wrote:
Macro is obviously the easiest, there's less ways to flat out die, A-moving is far more successful compared to other races.
Bull shit. Protoss vs Terran, Terran fails a push, not gg, Protoss fails, swarm of Tier 1.5 units = gg.
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I don't think the whole "protoss is the easiest race" has any merit to it. Each race has its ups and downs in terms of difficulty. Protoss has to rely on micro in many early game situations, and has to deal with low mobility with their heavy hitting units. I feel zerg macro is often over exaggerated, it's not nearly as hard as zerg players would like to have you think, the thing that makes zerg hard is decision making, and is why zerg is probably the least forgiving race. Just my 2 cents.
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Zurich15366 Posts
I hope everyone took this opportunity to whine their heart out and I hope that will keep some people from whining about balance on the rest of the forum.
If not than well, at least there was a funny post on page one.
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EPT
