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These threads are .. meh. They always end up in a ton of people going
"My race needs to micro each unit independently, do perfect forcefields and use feedbacks"
What does the player typically do - none of those
"My race needs to split units with 300+ apm to avoid banelings, focus fire with tanks, emp infestors/hts before FG/Storm hits because they instakill 30+ food of marines, pick up bio units in medivacs when theyre cut off from forcefields while dropping 3 places on the map"
"My race takes a ton of micro because I need to split my army in two and engage from two angles, and I also use corruption sometimes"
People state a ton of shit that their race is capable of doing, but they're never doing half of it. If you want to know which race has the most potential output of perfect micro, then yes, the answer is terran, if you question it you're silly. If it's how much you "have to do" - then the discussion is void, there's nothing any race absolutely has to do to win, and yes, there are countless scenarios for all races where one player has to micro his ass off while the other can LALALALALA through it all.
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On August 11 2011 08:38 Evilmystic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 08:29 Carwash wrote:
Protoss is unarguably the easiest race to play low masters and below. Sit on 3 base, max out, and go. Every other race has to constantly harass and scout to keep the toss in check. T and Z are also, generally, reactive to toss. Against zerg it's impossible to win that way even in low diamond. Get in touch with current metagame.
I guess you're just really bad. At low diamond, the metagame doesn't even matter.
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People who make this argument for anything other than lower leagues are just making stuff up. Easier to spend money? How many pros have trouble spending money? They get easy access to the W key for warpgates? How many pros have trouble remembering and maintaining their hotkeys?
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Lower mechanical skill ceiling, which is unreachable anyway.
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The problem with your mindset OP, is that you're equating a race that CAN micro or that does have special abilities, as one that is difficult to play or win with.
The special abilities of the protoss do not need to be used to win, and even when they are, many of them don't take a whole lot of skill to do considering that smart casting does most of the work.
Protoss is an easy race because the have simple and very powerful units. Such units that don't get hard countered as easily, and generally have features such as being able to attack both air and ground units, as well as being ranged (the only exception being the zealot).
colossus, voidray, stalker and zealot are pretty much a-move units that don't take much special tactics to be effective, and are pretty strong (albeit a bit expensive)
With a race like zerg, it is extremely easy to waste an ASSLOAD of units from a bad battle decision, engaging with the wrong units, not flanking the enemy, or not harassing effectively.
Not only that, but zerg has to balance production of drones with production of army units, as well as inject ON TIME, and spread creep, something neither of the other races have to do, since their energy can be spent all at once (even if it's not as effective, it's far better than nothing).
Terran is difficult because it tends to require the most micro and positional advantages to get ahead in battles, which takes a lot of skill to execute well.
They also have the hardest time with production since they will almost always use a strong balance of 3 different types of production buildings, while protoss is more 1 or 2.
in a nutshell this guy put it well: for after you 1a, hands off keyboard and celebrate!
that's why i play protoss, zerg is way too hard and u can't 1a seige tanks
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minimal micro required, lots of aoe. imo.
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Because protoss has the joker
Protoss can play the joker in anny lower league game in wich they are way behind and have a 50% change of winning the game (yes am ranting about the dark templar wich is a huge pain in the but for players below diamond)
On a more serious note: i didnt knew protoss was now considerd the easiest race
Maybe it is because protoss requiers less macro mechanics at first sight then the other races and maybe also because protoss had one verry dominant strategy (4gate) wich was relativly easy to learn and execute
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What frustrated me about playing Protoss at release was how easy it felt if I just relied on "gimmicks" or "tactics" or just sat back and waited for critical colossi. I would look back at my games and realize I had terrible probe production, I would constantly miss warpgate timings, but I would still win if I did one of those 2.
It got really frustrating when I switched to Terran after wiping the floor with my friends as Protoss. People I used to beat when I considered myself in an abysmal state, I started losing to. It wasn't necessarily them getting better or my lack of knowledge of Terran (since it had been some time since I switched), but merely that they were able to hold on to their arsenal of tactics while still clinging to crappy macro mechanics. I mean, ffs, one of them to this day doesn't use hotkeys and he's in masters. When I see stuff like this first hand, it's what convinces me Protoss is a lot easier to play at my level.
One of the things to remember about Protoss is that the macro mechanics line up with what you're doing pretty well. If you're doing an all out assault (not necessarily an all-in), you're probably not making probes, and you shouldn't be making probes if the attack is timed correctly. If you're defending your base, you're keeping up with macro and upgrades instinctively anyways.
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Personally I think Zerg is the easiest race to play. I'm playing random and I'm master on EU.
T is cheeseproof
Z is the best race if you have good macro
P can go either way depending alot on your microing
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Another thread with bronze level players commenting, sigh...
People talking about Protoss macro as if it's easy when we're the only race that can't really build units while micro'ing, people talking about how it's also easy to make gates, what? Terran have to make rax's, not much difference...
Point is, this thread is pointless, I wasn't lying when I said bronze level players, it's quite obvious the majority of the people posting have never even played at a high level if they think Protoss is A-moving race when that will get demolished by a MMM army with emp or an infestor based zerg army, Protoss is the most unforgiving race in terms of micro.
It also depends of which matchups, TvP is by far the most 1 dimensional matchup in the game, most top Terrans agree that it's a simple matchup for Terran.
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i think some ppl are assuming that just because, for example, terran can do multiprong drops and multitask, and it takes more skill to play.
what they're missing that is that its often times just as hard, if not harder to defend against a multi-harrass. it requires multitasking + quick decision making on the fly.
same applies for zerg multiprong/counter attacks vs terran, the defender has to be just as good at multicontrol or he is going to take terrible terrible damage
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On August 11 2011 09:08 Shooks wrote:
Another thread with bronze level players commenting, sigh...
People talking about Protoss macro as if it's easy when we're the only race that can't really build units while micro'ing, people talking about how it's also easy to make gates, what? Terran have to make rax's, not much difference...
Point is, this thread is pointless, I wasn't lying when I said bronze level players, it's quite obvious the majority of the people posting have never even played at a high level if they think Protoss is A-moving when that will get demolished by a MMM army with emp or an infestor based zerg army, Protoss is the most unforgiving race in terms of micro.
It also depends of which matchups, TvP is by far the most 1 dimensional matchup if the game, most top Terrans agree that it's a simple matchup for Terran.
oops double post
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On August 11 2011 08:16 FabledIntegral wrote:Protoss lategame army involves the least amount of micro by far. I'd say Terran requires the most. I don't know how people possibly think that Protoss involves the most micro. I'd say it involves the least, and FF's aren't even remotely hard to do well imo from the experience I've had playing them I almost always have had near PERFECT FF's. Watching GSL also I see nigh perfect FF's, they almost never fuck them up. I'm not saying Protoss is imba by any means, but for ease of play... Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 08:15 cheesemaster wrote:
I am a diamond protoss player who has recently switched to zerg (only gold-plat for zerg) and i find the macro mechanics much much more forgiving for zerg.
Lose 10 drones? no problem get them back with your next 2 larva injects then start pumping units like nothing has happened. And if larva is a problem because of that get another hatch.
Plus its so easy to just press 4s d,z,r, h W/e it is. The thing with protoss is you actually have to go back to your base to warp in units, where as when i play zerg i can be attacking and still watching my units while i do it. I dunno zerg suits me alot better and i think in no time it will be above protoss on my level. Despite me finding chroning probes ridiculously easy (teehee), the actual macro mechanic is inject, which is the least forgiving of the three. It's not debatable. Losing ten drones and remaking them easier than toss or terran is not related to the macro mechanic ease of use.
First part, why is terran has more amount of micro than toss where you just press EMP, stim and stutter step? Protoss gotta blink, storm, fb, FF, positioning to right? you miss one of those, you die, that 's why ppl say protoss require micro the most.
2nd part, Terran doesn't need SCVs, Polt lost ~30 SCVs to Nobleless, yet he still can crawl back in the game with better skill and MULE. In which way you can chronoboost 6-10 gates, upgrades, colossus and 30 probes and crawl back in the game?
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On August 11 2011 08:57 Xapti wrote:
The problem with your mindset OP, is that you're equating a race that CAN micro or that does have special abilities, as one that is difficult to play or win with.
Nono, I'm not saying that it's more difficult than any other race, just arguing that it's quite equal.
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United States5162 Posts
On August 11 2011 08:57 Xapti wrote:The problem with your mindset OP, is that you're equating a race that CAN micro or that does have special abilities, as one that is difficult to play or with with. The special abilities of the protoss do not need to be used to win, and even when they are, many of them don't take a whole lot of skill to do considering that smart casting does most of the work. Protoss is an easy race because the have simple and very powerful units. Such units that don't get hard countered as easily, and generally have features such as being able to attack both air and ground units, as well as being ranged (the only exception being the zealot). colossus, voidray, stalker and zealot are pretty much a-move units that don't take much special tactics to be effective, and are pretty strong (albeit a bit expensive) With a race like zerg, it is extremely easy to waste an ASSLOAD of units from a bad battle decision, engaging with the wrong units, not flanking the enemy, or not harassing effectively. Not only that, but zerg has to balance production of drones with production of army units, as well as inject ON TIME, and spread creep, something neither of the other races have to do, since their energy can be spent all at once (even if it's not as effective, it's far better than nothing). Terran is difficult because it tends to require the most micro and positional advantages to get ahead in battles, which takes a lot of skill to execute well. They also have the hardest time with production since they will almost always use a strong balance of 3 different types of production buildings, while protoss is more 1 or 2. in a nutshell this guy put it well: Show nested quote +for after you 1a, hands off keyboard and celebrate!
that's why i play protoss, zerg is way too hard and u can't 1a seige tanks
I'm no grandmaster player, but I feel like this post is almost completely wrong. Saying stalkers don't require micro is bullshit, plain and simple. Stalkers scale worse then the rest of the 'holy trinity'(I don't where I heard that, but Stalker, Roach, Maruader) which makes blink micro essential to trade even or better with them.
Voids not need micro is also bullshit. Targeting the correct unit and maintaining charge is micro like anything else.
Toss also doesn't have some huge advantage to range or targeting. Zerg is the worst as their known as a melee race, so it's just by design that most units aren't long range and don't shoot up. Terran actually has ALL ranged units, also by design. Toss is in the middle and they have one more unit that can shoot up then Terran, if you want to count the sentry's tickle.
Toss also pretty much requires good force fields and late game storm to stay competitive in certain situations. EMP vs Feedback is also micro intensive. I really feel like this is completely based of lower league play where I will agree Toss requires the least micro, but in high level play, every race is micro intensive and to say one requires way more or less is crazy to me.
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On August 11 2011 08:47 n00b3rt wrote:
Defending drops is laughably easy when compared to doing so with zerg or terran - both HT and DTs make it extremely easy for you.
sry, but I had to quote, after KA nerf, protoss is BY FAR, the worst at defending drops, protoss units are slow, VERY SLOW, they are big, making it hard getting to the drop, and they are shit in low numbers.
some say you can warp troops near the drop, but it is only possible if you forgot to warp in and so have then in standby
protoss players are just good at spotting drops cause people abuse then a lot and they had to develop this ability.
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Well its just the fact that a toss can just defend drops and harrassment untill 200/200, the toss army at 200 food is almost unstopable, well at least for myelf as a Terran. But its just something we have to deal with lol some toss players get cute with their strats, but ive played as many toss games as i have terran, and yes, its way easier to play lol. Just the ability to put up cannons, sit around til maxed out on 3 bases, and win most of the time.
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Well... as Idra once said.... "Voldemort plays Protoss"
In all seriousness, I think that if anything, Protoss has the least punishing macro mechanic. If you play with a tight build as Terran, you need the mules to be able to produce everything you want to. If you play zerg at all, and forget injects you end up not having that many units. However, for Protoss, let's say you stop chronoboosting... well. That actually happens, which doesn't make sense.
Other than that everything is balanced. <3
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I would agree that terran isn't exactly op but they have the units to counter each race perfectly, hellions, ghosts, seige tanks... they complain about their air but its actually quite strong and counters protoss air very nicely if used properly. zerg vs protoss i think at this point is even just protoss has to counter infestiny... which can be quite easy if you actually watch the replays, find the timing that they go pit and put up your templar, defend, get 3rd base, build 3 robos into mass collosus and gateway units after first getting templar. terran its completly different, they just emp you and you get shreaded or hellion drop or cloak banshee or drop marines, its a lot of or's with terran compare to zerg
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On August 11 2011 09:08 Shooks wrote:
Another thread with bronze level players commenting, sigh...
People talking about Protoss macro as if it's easy when we're the only race that can't really build units while micro'ing, people talking about how it's also easy to make gates, what? Terran have to make rax's, not much difference...
Point is, this thread is pointless, I wasn't lying when I said bronze level players, it's quite obvious the majority of the people posting have never even played at a high level if they think Protoss is A-moving race when that will get demolished by a MMM army with emp or an infestor based zerg army, Protoss is the most unforgiving race in terms of micro.
It also depends of which matchups, TvP is by far the most 1 dimensional matchup in the game, most top Terrans agree that it's a simple matchup for Terran.
With that sentence i can now conclude that you are one of those bronze players you speak of. Toss has the toughest units in the entire game. As a zerg an entire control group of lings get roasted in a second to hellions if you look away at the wrong moment, an infinite number of mutas gets destroyed to a thor volley if you missmicro, huge groups of marines perish to two fungals. Nothing in a Toss army dies that quickly to anything.
Now i play random so i don't care which race is easiest or hardest, but one thing is definitely true, as a toss you don't have to babysit your units like you have to with Z/T.
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EPT
