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Nible
Sweden85 Posts
On August 11 2011 09:23 GoKu` wrote: everyone thinks their race is the hardest to play. That is usually how these topics / ideas get started. Have I not already said that I'm not saying Protoss is the hardest race to play? I'm merely saying that it's not easier than any other race! Gosh, read the OP. | ||
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Shiluk
United States11 Posts
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Omegastorm
102 Posts
On August 11 2011 09:48 Shiluk wrote: My main is zerg but recently I got a smurf account for fun. I flip a coin to decide if I wan't to play terran or protoss. For me protoss is a much easier race to macro and control. My smurf is gold right now and my rank usually goes up while playing Protoss and down when playing Terran. I'm only plat on my main but I would say Protoss is the easiest class to learn. Just my opinion tho ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Learn a good Terran timing attack and come back bro. Edit: Just Terran timing attack every one of them is good. | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
B-b-but is is! | ||
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Raimu
United Kingdom79 Posts
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Shooks
Australia256 Posts
On August 11 2011 09:54 radiantshadow92 wrote: The reason why people think Toss is the easiest race is because its just widely known that Zerg is the macro race while Terran is the micro race. Toss has always been in the middle and it just has a bunch of conveniences. Macro is not has hard as zerg with creep/inject because all you have to do is build warpgates and tech structure and bam you warp in ANYWHERE. Micro is not has hard as Terran with Stop/stim/emp because all you have to do is back up with collosi and FF. And when the deathball is reached you do 1A there is no doubt. Toss has the strongest units by far and if they reach 200/200 with even upgrades, the game is usually over. I dont know why toss players take it so hard. Ok, toss is the easiest race, GOOD FOR TOSS PLAYER. They are also by far the coolest. Vikings auto attack Collosi, EMP is the hard counter to HTs (Meaning we're the race that has to spread the units). Protoss units are not stronger when it's even upgrades and we get all our units EMPd (And it's pretty hard to not get all your units EMP'd when theres 8+ ghosts in the lategame) | ||
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
On August 11 2011 09:52 Omegastorm wrote: Learn a good Terran timing attack and come back bro. Edit: Just Terran timing attack every one of them is good. Or he could just play protoss and not have to worry about silly timings at all, he only has to attack once he no longer can build additional units. | ||
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Rotodyne
United States2263 Posts
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Nible
Sweden85 Posts
On August 11 2011 09:26 eXwOn wrote: After reading every page, I derive that I have gone mentally insane. The amount of circular arguments is mind numbing. As soon as someone makes a new point, it just loops back again. It's like being trapped in a 20 page hell. Omg, the dedication strikes me! I've read like 3 in total. oO | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Chronobbost can be forget after 10min ( hell, most pro have 100 energy on nexus pass 20min ) And protoss is naturaly turtlely, because the more unit you have, the best it is, and new player don't like attacking. | ||
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
However to say they are the easiest to play is absolutely ridiculous. People say they don't require as much multi-tasking, which is bullshit, as they in fact require arguably the MOST multi-tasking - you HAVE to babysit your army and you HAVE to look away from your army to build stuff. Fending off drops and multi-pronged attacks is a LOT harder to do than executing them (which is why multi-pronged attacks and drops are so awesome). Toss CAN NOT turtle in their base until maxed and then move out and win. This has never been true vs Terran (of course they might win, but not if they 1a and even then it depends on micro) and now that Zergs have figured out that Roach/Hydra isn't actually good in the late game it's especially not true vs Zerg (and even then it required perfect micro and positioning from Protoss to just roll-out and win). Now, people will probably argue with every point that I have made, but the simple fact is, Protoss IS the easiest race to learn. However, it's entirely possible to argue that they are in fact the HARDEST to play (I would not argue this btw as I think the races are relatively equal here, possibly with Terran needing the best mechanics) due to the fragility of the Protoss game, inability to pressure good opponents without high-risk pushes and complete inability to play from behind. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On August 11 2011 09:58 Raimu wrote: After hitting master with Zerg I wanted to try Terran since I really disliked Zerg. It took me ages to get back to master level, about a month of playing 10-15 games a day, which is a lot for me. When I eventually tried Protoss it was a LOT easier. I could macro with toss and keep my money low for a long macro game after like 2/3 games. This was much harder to achieve with Terran. I think a mix of easier mechanics and warpgates makes toss a lot easier to play as, at least in the beginning. It's just the effect of having played the other two races before. I main protoss but I regularly custom againt master protosses and I beat them with terran, because I know a bit more how protoss works and what I can exploit. The two races are really not that different, although I think that terran is actually the strongest if you have APM to spare. About Zerg I don't really know, doesn't seem that hard to spam roaches and throw them at your opponent (haha j/k..........kinda ;D). | ||
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
However at high levels protoss mechanics are actually quite hard. Chrono boost usage is one of the more advanced things in terms of decisionmaking and warp in requires more multitasking to be used for making units. Obviously warp in has it's huge benefits aswell. Consider that you have to jump around the screen a lot to just keep spending chrono boosts and warp in units. Compared to a zerg the zerg has more chores but they can be done faster and compared to terran, well... They only have to mule and make supplies and then spend the rest of the time attacking. But also a terran needs to multifront harass in most scenarios so it evens out the multitasking requirements quite a lot. The biggest argument for why protoss is easier on lower levels is that the death ball is extremely easy to control and very strong by itself. A lot of top players know how to somewhat neutralise the death ball and thus a protoss needs to add more high level tactics to win a game. I still think zerg is the hardest to play at a top level because of all the harassment potential of the other races and how zerg really doesnt have an automated defense against drops / air etc. You allways need to actively control units to stop harass as zerg whereas cannons / warp in or turrets / planetary gives the other races some time to get their defense in line. A zerg needs to have an infestor / lings in place or see the harass coming 10 sec before its there or its gonna do major damage even if you have spines. That being said, it's ridiculous to claim that any race is easy to play at top levels. Ease of use shouldn't even be a discussion at top level. The only thin we should discuss there is the effectiveness of units in certain situations. There is nothing in this game that even comes close to being too hard for a progamer to execute if he puts the time into it. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
Terran - easy to macro, best build variety, hardest to reinforce, probably most micro intensive Protoss - average to macro, little variety, best offensive reinforcement, strongest deathball Zerg - hardest to macro, easiest to gain economy lead, best army replenishment, hardest to engage with I still have trouble with Zerg, but when I lose I always see a fault in poor spending since the economy gets away from me all the time. But other than that, I don't find an advantage in one race over the other. Yet that said, here's how I would rank my understanding and skill in each matchup: TvP > PvZ > ZvP > PvP > TvZ > PvT > TvT > ZvT > ZvZ To me, what appears as "easy" is the micro intensity of the "common" units in the match up, and the mix required for common units. TvP is easy at a low level since MMM is easy to remember and execute. Whereas near the other end of the scale, ZvT is hard to obtain the perfect mix of units to counter a marine tank push even when relying on a standard muta-ling army. Anyway that's just how I feel. Protoss are suffering in the professional scene currently, but a poor month does not make a poor race. And every player has their personal hates. My flatmate is a Terran who hates all Zerg games he has to play, even though he wins more than half of them. I personally dislike fighting against terran because of their variety, even though again I win probably over half of my matches against T. So it comes down to personal feelings towards a MU or race. Re OP: From above, toss is potentially considered easiest to play because of the little variety offered. 80% of vP games will see a gateway + robo mix, so some players consider getting the "right mix" easy because there are no match ups that gate + robo are "bad" in. | ||
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Shooks
Australia256 Posts
On August 11 2011 10:03 Noocta wrote: Protoss is easy to understand quickly, warpgate make production into " i want unit here, i get unit here instantly". Chronobbost can be forget after 10min ( hell, most pro have 100 energy on nexus pass 20min ) And protoss is naturaly turtlely, because the more unit you have, the best it is, and new player don't like attacking. Using CB as a reasoning for Protoss being easy is stupid, half the time when people even mention CB usage, there's nothing to even use it on, most people will just stock pile it 20 mins + in the game to use on gates cause there's nothing else to use it on except pumping out Collosi which doesn't exactly use much CB when you have 5 nexus's. Zerg is a 'macro' race meaning there defensive, Terran can be defensive and aggressive very easily, so your last comment is retarded. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
On August 11 2011 08:35 ZenithM wrote: Now, watch pro play, like HuK, Mana, or any korean protoss like MC, San or Puzzle. Can you say that they're doing nothing and are just slow fucks abusing the easiest race? Now look at those so called "smart pro terrans" like Sjow and Goody, who average something like 100 APM. Both of them are very good. Can you find Protoss players who are as successful with the same speed? I mean, the only protoss players with that kind of hand speed that come to my mind are NA protosses like Axslav, Incontrol, Minigun and Cruncher, but they are hardly what you would consider top protosses. I'm rarely amazed at a player's macro in pro games, but man, MC has so much stuff when he plays and manages to reinforce in the middle of a fight, and protoss players know that's a hard thing to do. You must be saying that Sjow and Goody are top Terrans. I strongly feel like they are comparable to Axslav, Incontrol and Minigun. Infact, I would liquidbet both Axslav and Incontrol over Goody and Sjow any day. Goody has been ass at TvP for ages (IMO largely in part due to his lack of multitasking). Sjow, well, he's alright, but I still feel like to use Bio effectively requires more APM. Sjow could definetly beat these players. But I feel like a 2-0 is much more likely with the Protosses you present. I would definetly be more confident betting on Axslav and Incontrol against Korean Terrans (excluding The Multitasking Beasts MVP, MMA and Puma) than I would on Sjow and Goody taking a match off any Protoss in Code A or above. | ||
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Shooks
Australia256 Posts
On August 11 2011 10:08 Techno wrote: ZenithM just made probably the best post I've seen not only in this thread, but on the whole of TeamLiquid since I've arrived. I only have one comment for him. You must be saying that Sjow and Goody are top Terrans. I strongly feel like they are comparable to Axslav, Incontrol and Minigun. Infact, I would liquidbet both Axslav and Incontrol over Goody and Sjow any day. Goody has been ass at TvP for ages (IMO largely in part due to his lack of multitasking). Sjow, well, he's alright, but I still feel like to use Bio effectively requires more APM. Sjow could definetly beat these players. But I feel like a 2-0 is much more likely with the Protosses you present. I would definetly be more confident betting on Axslav and Incontrol against Korean Terrans (excluding The Multitasking Beasts MVP, MMA and Puma) than I would on Sjow and Goody taking a match off any Protoss in Code A or above. I'd love to agree with you but both Goody and Sjow are some of the most consistent players outside Korea, APM does not necessarily mean multitasking, Sjow was one of the first Terran players to show how good multiprong drops are, Goody also had like a 70% w/l ratio on the EU server, he's low APM is really due to he's mech style | ||
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