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Shake_ please
United States18 Posts
Protoss also can't afford to engage unless they can most likely win the engagement. And they're forced (basically) to get colossus because gateway units can't straight up out-DPS anything. They depend the heaviest on gas on average. So their only real option is mass up a death ball and amove. Also, zealots are a joke compared to bw | ||
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Eufouria
United Kingdom4425 Posts
Also it could be that a Protoss army often lends itself to being grouped up, so only a few hotkeys are needed, while Zerg needs to split up and flank, and terrans often drop, although personally I think Protoss coukd, and probably should, be doing those things too. Microing a tank marine push while dropping and macroing off 3+ bases is hard as fuck to do, but I don't see any reason for complaint about other races being easier. You shouldn't have picked the most mechanically demanding race if you didn't want to be mechanically demanded. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
(I'm zerg) #1 First and foremost: I've never played Protoss. #2 You can win the game even in the midgame with just gateway units #3 You can win the game without making a single offensive unit. #4 You can totally ignore your macro mechanic and still win until diamond league #5 You can win the game with a single DT issued a single command. #6 You can win the game with two Colossus (+gateways) issued a single command. #7 You can win the game with four void rays issued a single command. #8 You can have godawful map awareness and stop a drop, nydus, or runby with a single warp-in after its already in your base. #9 Your tech is generally easier to control and less fragile than my tech. #10 Your tech is stronger than my tech. THERE! Happy? I get my ass kicked by Protoss all the time. A lot of the time they're legitimate losses where the protoss player was just straight up better than me. The rest of the time? Cannons, DT's, void rays, blink stalkers, or any one of a number of strong, viable, seemingly easy-to-use tech options that will just beat the shit out of me if I don't use the strong scouting sense I'm supposed to have but you don't have to give a shit about to determine by some magic that you're going for this one of your array of viable tech paths. In case it wasn't evident, this is very much tongue-in-cheek. I don't seriously think Protoss is significantly easier than the other races; It's just significantly more gay. | ||
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MrLlama
United States454 Posts
I've played all 3 races and protoss is by far the easiest to play. Does this mean it is the easiest to win with? No. It simply means as a protoss player there is just a LOT less to do. You can spend your time just kinda waiting around and then if you ever start to float minerals units cost so much for protoss that it's pretty simple to spend them all (But the units are also stronger). Also, leaving your units alone for 1 second doesn't result in instant death, as they do for terran and zerg. Lastly, protoss just doesn't really need to utilize the harass as much for winning and I also think this is why they lose more often than the other races. When I played terran I would have to have incredible multi tasking and micro when I'd play. I would almost ALWAYS make a multi pronged attack and so I'd have to constantly be switching between watching my units dropped and making sure they stayed stimmed as well as watching my main army to avoid things like banes and collosus and such. Now I play zerg and I must say it is by far the hardest race to play and especially master. First off I feel it has the most potential but that's simply because the risk/reward aspect of it. Yes I can sit at my base and drone like a madman but if I'm not actively scouting or if I miss a pylon you hid somewhere on the map where you're warping in units, I lose. On the other hand, if I over produce units, you can just get ahead economically and then I'm behind. Going into the macro/micro part of the game it is actually harder than the other races. Injecting larva on time when you're just sitting at your base isn't too bad, but when you're scouting and harassing and in battle and you have to remember to go back and inject larva, it can be brutal. Also things like creep spread are very important but just added things to remember. You also have to watch all of your units constantly because they die in seconds (you try leaving your mutalisks alone for 2 seconds to go inject and then come back to a group of stimmed marines underneath them). There are just so many different things to do as a zerg (from baneling mines to nydus worms) that it really makes the race extremely open but extremely difficult because you have to remember so many basic things first. When I played protoss I honestly could play high and not have it change anything (I don't smoke but my friends who do smoke and play protoss have zero drop off in their gameplay). Apm is already kind of a joke in SC2 but protoss really gets it easy. I was able to simply focus on my build orders because as a protoss there isn't much else to do. My units would simply stay clumped together and I would just macro up a big deathball and push. Every now and then I'd do a little multi pronged attack with DTs into 3rd and 4th bases when I was attacking but even that didn't require much micro as I would just send them in then focus on my main army. Protoss players complain about all the spells they have to cast but really all of those are pretty simply sad to say. Microing blink stalkers is the easiest thing in the world. I can micro blink stalkers with about 50 apm. The only difficult part about casting force fields is making sure your sentries are in range so they will cast automatically. And storms are as easy as casting EMPs. For the most part as a protoss I would just A move into an army, let my chargelots charge, blink my stalkers if needed, and set up some ff's. From there I just move around my collo and it really isn't much harder than that. All said, I think zerg is the hardest race to play, followed by terran, followed by protoss. This has nothing to do with the balance of the game but simply how each race currently plays the game. I think protoss players have yet to really utilize everything and that's why they struggle to win more often but also why they have it easier playing the game. In SC1 dropships used to be used ALL the time from protoss players, nowadays I never see a warp prism. maybe start doing some HT drops around the map and you can add to the micro you have to do as well as increase your win percentage. | ||
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Tippecanoe
United States342 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:47 meadbert wrote: So I think Terran is tougher to micro, but it is close: Storm and EMP largely cancel Same with Feedback/Snipe Stim is as easy as guardian shield. Terran has kiting, but Toss has blink micro which is just as hard. Also, Forcefields are by the far the hardest and most important part since they must be both fast and accurate. Phoenix are tough to Micro. Siege Tanks are harder than Colossus. Again, Terran is probably the toughest to micro well, but it is close. And being able to Queue up units mid battle and just wait on mules is infinitely better than missing a round of Warpins, so Toss is frequently forced to Macro as they are trying to perform micro that is almost as hard. The equivalent of missing warp ins isn't queing up units, it's not making them at all. How can you compare the two? | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
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rawrjaaaaay
United States426 Posts
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Techno
1900 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:47 meadbert wrote: So I think Terran is tougher to micro, but it is close: Storm and EMP largely cancel Same with Feedback/Snipe Stim is as easy as guardian shield. Terran has kiting, but Toss has blink micro which is just as hard. Also, Forcefields are by the far the hardest and most important part since they must be both fast and accurate. Phoenix are tough to Micro. Siege Tanks are harder than Colossus. Again, Terran is probably the toughest to micro well, but it is close. And being able to Queue up units mid battle and just wait on mules is infinitely better than missing a round of Warpins, so Toss is frequently forced to Macro as they are trying to perform micro that is almost as hard. Yea but having all the zealots warp in instantly is 100000000x better than having units trickle out of a baracks. You may win the 200/200 battle with EMP on everything, stim + kiting of multiple unit groups, but do you have enough hp/medivacs to beat 30 more supply of chargelots? MAYBE EVEN A GAWDDAMN STORM? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43788 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:47 Skwid1g wrote: I hate that logic. Protoss are losing lots so it must be balance rather than toss players needing to figure out new strategies/counters to whatever is making them lose, namely the marine/tank/banshee all-in that is skewing the numbers against toss quite a bit. The numbers have been skewed long before this newly modified 1-1-1 build that's making this season of the GSL completely Terran dominated. In fact, there's been a recently-bumped TL thread that shows the graphical data as recent as July that shows that Terran has pretty much always been ahead, and Protoss mostly at the bottom (occasionally switching with Zerg). I agree that we need to give the players time to figure things out, but this isn't a new thing. It's a general, consistent trend. I'm simply saying that "easiest" certainly doesn't mean "best" (especially at the pro-level), as is proven by the data. | ||
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Reptilia
Chile913 Posts
On August 11 2011 05:14 HentaiPrime wrote: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/starcraft-ii/171927d1305652662-protoss-strategies-replays-protosskeyboardsmul4.jpg) and ![[image loading]](http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/starcraft-ii/171928d1305652662-protoss-strategies-replays-forcefield.jpg) now you're set! that's why i play protoss, zerg is way too hard and u can't 1a seige tanks you realize "1a siege tanks" is the most stupid term ever? Siege tanks are all about position, you never EVER 1a with siege tanks. | ||
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EliteReplay
Dominican Republic913 Posts
On August 11 2011 05:29 Chargelot wrote: "Protoss is easy" - Everyone but Protoss "Protoss has the lowest win rate" - Statistical data I wonder who is right? the only suggestion i could say, Those ppl that think Protoss is just A move, go play it for 2-3month and come here and post your thought. i`m sure u will come here like omg Terran all in are so op. omg Terran loses 30scv and can win the game. omg Terran just need Marauders and Vikings. omg Terran drops are annoying. omg Terran 1 EMP won the game. omg Terran is cheesy but uncheesable omg Terran 2Blue flame hellion killed 30probes. omg Terran Mule are imba. omg Terran 1-1-1 so hard O_O omg Zerg just need infestors. omg Zerg just need 1million lings + 10infestors. omg Zerg just need roaches to win. (no FF) omg Zerg Roach ling is so hard to stop. omg Zerg Bling drop kill my entire probe line. | ||
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FrostFire626
United States79 Posts
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zeek0us
United States67 Posts
The main advantage of Toss is strong, cost-effective units. You get more bang for your buck. So if neither player is taking a considerable econ/macro lead and micro ability is even, the Protoss player is going to win most fights. It's up to Zerg and Terran to have more stuff and the ability to replace it sooner to hang with Protoss. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:55 Tippecanoe wrote: The equivalent of missing warp ins isn't queing up units, it's not making them at all. How can you compare the two? He's saying that it's easier for Terran to queue up units and mule after the fight than for Protoss to stop microing to go warp in. OTOH as mentioned Toss gets the units very quickly while Terran gets a cool conga line so 6/half a dozen. | ||
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BlueyD
Canada437 Posts
This said, a few advantages of playing protoss: - Robust units with shields that regenerate means tiny micro mistakes are more forgiving. - The variety of units at the gateway level means spending resources effectively is simpler. Too much gas? Make sentries! Full on minerals? Make zealots! - The ability to warp units in right where you need them is incredibly useful. - The colossus is a powerful and easy-to-use unit, especially at lower levels of skill where complaints against protoss seem to be more frequent. Now, a few disadvantages: - Between forcefields, blinkstalkers, immortal target-fires, keeping zealots and archons in front, phoenix micro, keeping VRs and colossi alive, drop defense... Protoss micro at high levels of play is difficult. - Macro has its disadvantages as well: Unlike Z or T, protosses have to look away from their army to build their gateway units - and there's no queuing, not even at the last second. Add that to the micro you need, and the APM requirements to play protoss at a high level are not lower than other races'. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On August 11 2011 07:04 Yaotzin wrote: He's saying that it's easier for Terran to queue up units and mule after the fight than for Protoss to stop microing to go warp in. OTOH as mentioned Toss gets the units very quickly while Terran gets a cool conga line so 6/half a dozen. god, that the reason...why protoss units have longer build times than both their Zerg or Terran pendant, even with Warpgates... the only reason Protoss is felt as the "strongest" race is because they have strong spells that can be abusive if you blindly engage. But this makes the opponent bad and not protoss strong for not calculating the abilities of the enemy in. It the same for Protoss if we blindly charge into like what M&M&M? before we got Colossus or Storm... ridiculously one sided... there is a reason why Protoss isn't really doing well these days, that because finally the other races learnt from their mistakes, and use the fucking units they didn't use for months...(Ghost. infestor that is if you don't know) Protoss is not the easiest race to macro, they have the hardest time expanding on "fair" maps where the is no choke / high ground covering the natural. Protoss if at all may be the easiest race in spending money. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
On August 11 2011 07:05 BlueyD wrote: - Macro has its disadvantages as well: Unlike Z or T, protosses have to look away from their army to build their gateway units - and there's no queuing, not even at the last second. I thank you for not using Warp Prisms.  | ||
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mXWeird
France17 Posts
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mXWeird
France17 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:58 EliteReplay wrote: the only suggestion i could say, Those ppl that think Protoss is just A move, go play it for 2-3month and come here and post your thought. i`m sure u will come here like omg Terran all in are so op. omg Terran loses 30scv and can win the game. omg Terran just need Marauders and Vikings. omg Terran drops are annoying. omg Terran 1 EMP won the game. omg Terran is cheesy but uncheesable omg Terran 2Blue flame hellion killed 30probes. omg Terran Mule are imba. omg Terran 1-1-1 so hard O_O omg Zerg just need infestors. omg Zerg just need 1million lings + 10infestors. omg Zerg just need roaches to win. (no FF) omg Zerg Roach ling is so hard to stop. omg Zerg Bling drop kill my entire probe line. This is off topic. We are not talking about balance but why protoss would be easier to play. | ||
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