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Reasons:
- most robust units: they won't die if unattended to, but will not benefit much more if they ARE attended to (terran and zerg benefit more from extra attention)
- easiest macro (only protoss has the magic W key that automatically includes all your gateways no matter how scattered around the map they are)
- probe building mechanic: try building 10 buildings with each race and see who needs least efforts and various calculations (with Zerg making up for lost drones, Terran SCVs all have to get back to mining vs 1 probe working magic)
- least important macro mechanic, forgetting chronoboost isn't really on the same level as forgetting mules or inject larva
I play protoss.
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On August 11 2011 06:41 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Press "w" "s" click, repeat, "s" click", until warpgates are on cooldown.
This is why. and this is harder than pressing "5" "s" "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" ?
Roaches don't pop out instantly, nor do they blink around.
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People consider protoss the easiest because they're too ignorant to look at their own mistakes and see how they could win games, but instead blaming their losses on some sort of "imbalance"
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On August 11 2011 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Press "w" "s" click, repeat, "s" click", until warpgates are on cooldown.
This is why.
Looks like either your shift key is broke or you dont know wtf you are talking about.
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Saying it's "easy" is incredibly ambiguous, as has been shown by the past dozen pages.
I'm Protoss.
Is it easy for me to macro? Yes, and that's probably why beginners will have a relatively *easy* time playing Protoss- because having decent macro (a.k.a. keeping your money low) is the most essential thing in the game. Warpgate tech makes macro-ing with Protoss easier than macro-ing as Terran or Zerg, in my opinion.
Is Protoss a notorious 1a race in SC2? Definitely not; we need to micro quite a bit. Even if we're just on gateway tech, we often need perfect forcefields, really good blink micro, storms, or feedbacks to succeed on defense or offense. So while the macro aspect may be *easy*, it's not *easy* to micro them. (I'm not saying any other race is a 1a race; I'm merely defending Protoss.)
Is it easy to win outright as Protoss against other races? Not necessarily. The most fearsome early game attack- the 4gate- isn't nearly as intimidating as it was months ago. And late game engagements come down to micro. There's a reason why Protoss is getting its ass kicked in Korea and on an international level. Maybe it's easy for beginners, when no one is very competitive and all you need to do is macro hard... but when you need all the finer points, the race is certainly not on par with the others (let alone easiest overall). And the data defends that.
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protoss easy coz u can just turtle all game and slowly build up deathball and roll out and own
or
u can simply just 4 gating all the way to master, no kidding, bunch of my friend do it this way
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[B]. Ever try a moving stalkers into mm?
ever tried moving marines into banelings or lings into tanks? its the same
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On August 11 2011 06:32 captainobvious wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 06:28 jstar wrote:
Zerg: Hard to learn, easy to master.
Protoss: Easy to learn, hard to master.
Terran: Middle
/thread Zerg easy to master.. LOLOLOLOL
If by master you mean get to masters then yes I would say Zerg is the easiest race to accomplish this with. To get to the top of masters is probably protoss and to get to the top of GM is probably Terran.
The graph on skill required/improvement is drastically different for each race. Beginner Terrans are more deadly than beginner zerg/protosses by a long shot, but mid range protosses are definetly the strongest of the bunch, then finally diamond Zergs have the least skill difference from top master zergs out of the respective races. The top master zerg will only occasionally find himself in a position to utilize his skills over the low master zerg, while a top master terran would use his units completely differently than a low masters/diamond terran, and execute builds far more efficiently than a diamond Terran.
Most protosses I see in masters have worse macro than I do. I have ~50% win rate in TvP and maybe in 5% of those games am I behind in workers.
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I am convinced the only reason this thread is open still is because the mods are either playing a big joke on everyone(like that Chill pvz thread back in the bw days) or they are leaving it open as a trap so they can mass ban a lot of people.
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I main terran and play protoss on an alternate account. Protoss is defiantly easier bronze - plat because to beat protoss as terran (not including zerg as I have played very little ZvP) you have to do constant drops which is multitask heavy and be positioned just right. All in all protoss is OP in the earlier leagues but is pretty balanced dia -GM.
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its a carry over from brood war basically. In reality terran is [if any race is] the easy race, given its clearly been OP since the start. toss/zerg have taken turns at being useless.
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On August 11 2011 06:42 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 06:41 aderum wrote:On August 11 2011 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Press "w" "s" click, repeat, "s" click", until warpgates are on cooldown.
This is why. and this is harder than pressing "5" "s" "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" ? Roaches don't pop out instantly, nor do they blink around.
You do realize that warpgate has cooldown? and that you can reproduce 50 roches at one, while you only can reproduce as many stalkers as you have gateways. I cant really understand how you would say that protoss is so easy when GSL is dominated by zerg and terran. This is just batshit crasy.
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Protoss is considered the easiest race for lower levels because of how you can turtle off two or three base and get the perfect colossus/ht/gateway composition and just win based off of that. In the pro level of things all races are balanced in difficulty. Well not completely but they're more balanced in difficulty.
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On August 11 2011 06:40 Techno wrote:
Storm vs EMP/Stim/Kiting.
I'd take storm any day.
So I think Terran is tougher to micro, but it is close:
Storm and EMP largely cancel
Same with Feedback/Snipe
Stim is as easy as guardian shield.
Terran has kiting, but Toss has blink micro which is just as hard.
Also, Forcefields are by the far the hardest and most important part since they must be both fast and accurate.
Phoenix are tough to Micro.
Siege Tanks are harder than Colossus.
Again, Terran is probably the toughest to micro well, but it is close.
And being able to Queue up units mid battle and just wait on mules is infinitely better than missing a round of Warpins, so Toss is frequently forced to Macro as they are trying to perform micro that is almost as hard.
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On August 11 2011 05:05 Nible wrote:Why is Protoss often considered to be the easiest race to play? As most Protosses have (or rather as every player), I have often after a win been the subject of the losing opponents rage and balance whining. Some of these "discussions" have been about how easy Protoss is to play. After one of these discussions I actually searched for it and it turned out most people on the many SC2 forums in fact do think that it is the easiest race! I cannot, for my life, understand what is so much harder with the other races. I mean, tech switching and almost never having to look at your base as Zerg? Teching as Terran with all of their turtle units and structures? In my opinion, every race has its harder and its aspects of play. To me, the Protoss has always been the micro race as it has a lot of spell casters, that's probably the main reason I play it. Microing blink stalkers, phoenixes and so on. Having to tech quite fast to deal with opponents tier 1 units and microing while macroing is not what I call “easy”. Of the harder things a Zerg has to deal with we have the decision making, whether to make drones or units and such, and Terran has... ummm... umm....... drop… play? no that EZ... banshees? nah, that too… (jk, jk, I bet there are hard things for a Terran as well). Can anyone please try to get me to understand what is so easy about Protoss? Or is this discussion as pointless and should be as ignored as IdrA’s balance complaints? Am I right in what I’m saying? With risk of being totally ignored in any SC2 related discussion if someone remembers me, I feel obligated to tell you that I play in Silver league. I’m not a total retard just because of it, though. This whole thread post is probably a little bit biased as I have mostly played Protoss, not as much Zerg and little-to-none Terran. Please correct me if you think you know better. I’m hardly the most knowing player. ^^ These are just my thoughts. Hope I haven't messed the whole texted up so you can't understand it  . I'm so eager to post it, lol. EDIT: Actually, I think I missed out on the part where I was supposed to say what was easy with the Protoss race. This was not supposed to be "WHINE WHINE PEOPLE DON'T THINK MY RACE IS HARD!" As many of you say, yes the macro might be easier as a protoss with the less diversity in tech and unit compositions. But as I said, the micro is harder, depending on playstyle, of course. And about Zerg having to be at one more base at all times I think can be fairly discussed. I don't think that it is necessary to be all of the time, but yes, it might be necessary to expand at least a little bit before your opponent. And I'd also like to add from my slightly biased perspective that expanding as zerg isn't quite as risky as with the other races. A zerg can almost instantly after the base is up increase their production. A protoss on 3 bases within 10 mins practically get raped by a zerg on 3 bases at 10 mins. Just saw it on WhiteRa's stream. It's not until later that a protoss or terran get use of their expansion. And just to make a point concerning the lack of multitasking requirements and map control, I think I can fairly effectively at least in Silver league take map control with phoenixes and which as a harrass unit requires a bit of multi tasking if you're going to macro at the same time, same as with blink stalker micro. As I stated in my original post. This thread didn't quite turn out as I wanted. :/
At the beginning level, almost everything concerning skill is due to mechanical skill. True strategy and mind games only start to really affect the game at higher levels of play, and Protoss is the easiest race to play mechanically, and you'd be very hardpressed to argue otherwise. Macro is significantly harder as both Zerg and Terran, and Terran have a lot of micro to do to make their army effective (both positional micro and otherwise). Zerg's difficulty comes from not only their macro being more difficult than Protoss, but the basics of Zerg strategy are also much more difficult to grasp - Larvae management, expansion timings, and map control aren't easy to pick up for beginners, and these are much more necessary to grasp at an earlier level than compared to T or P.
And no, micro really isn't significantly harder as Protoss. It's about the same as Zerg (Zerg requires a whole lot of flanking and mass army controlling skills, Protoss requires fine unit control), and Terran is significantly harder (simple Tank placement and Siege/Unsiege timings are very difficult to master and will make or break your armies effectiveness, not to mention bio control against Banelings/Storms/Forcefields/Etc, as well as Hellion control and Dropship control).
All that said, Protoss can be argued to be the hardest race to play at the highest level, since so much of their game can rely on the control of so few units/spells and their main strength comes from strategies and spell use. Both of these ideas were held to be pretty true in BW. SC2 is turning out to be quite a bit like BW in this respect.
In BW, you could be comfortable saying that (even if these are arguable points)
Learning Curve
Protoss (easiest) > Zerg > Terran (hardest)
Mastering Curve
Terran (easiest) > Zerg > Protoss (hardest)
I'd say that I'm quite surprised at how similar SC2 is turning out.
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All 3 are equally hard at a top level, toss is easier at lower levels because you're much less susceptible to all-ins and can create a "death ball" that doesn't get hard countered by anything. They also have really versatile units/buildings in warp gates, stalkers, colossus, and cannons as well as good map vision via observers.
Terran micro is MUCH harder and Zerg macro (injects, knowing when to make drones, knowing what unit to make, knowing when to expand, etc.) is much harder. At least that's how I feel.
I play random and I honestly find Protoss to be the easiest to play at a "decent" level.
On August 11 2011 06:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Saying it's "easy" is incredibly ambiguous, as has been shown by the past dozen pages.
I'm Protoss.
Is it easy for me to macro? Yes, and that's probably why beginners will have a relatively *easy* time playing Protoss- because having decent macro (a.k.a. keeping your money low) is the most essential thing in the game. Warpgate tech makes macro-ing with Protoss easier than macro-ing as Terran or Zerg, in my opinion.
Is Protoss a notorious 1a race in SC2? Definitely not; we need to micro quite a bit. Even if we're just on gateway tech, we often need perfect forcefields, really good blink micro, storms, or feedbacks to succeed on defense or offense. So while the macro aspect may be *easy*, it's not *easy* to micro them. (I'm not saying any other race is a 1a race; I'm merely defending Protoss.)
Is it easy to win outright as Protoss against other races? Not necessarily. The most fearsome early game attack- the 4gate- isn't nearly as intimidating as it was months ago. And late game engagements come down to micro. There's a reason why Protoss is getting its ass kicked in Korea and on an international level. Maybe it's easy for beginners, when no one is very competitive and all you need to do is macro hard... but when you need all the finer points, the race is certainly not on par with the others (let alone easiest overall). And the data defends that.
I hate that logic. Protoss are losing lots so it must be balance rather than toss players needing to figure out new strategies/counters to whatever is making them lose, namely the marine/tank/banshee all-in that is skewing the numbers against toss quite a bit.
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On August 11 2011 06:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Saying it's "easy" is incredibly ambiguous, as has been shown by the past dozen pages.
I'm Protoss.
Is it easy for me to macro? Yes, and that's probably why beginners will have a relatively *easy* time playing Protoss- because having decent macro (a.k.a. keeping your money low) is the most essential thing in the game. Warpgate tech makes macro-ing with Protoss easier than macro-ing as Terran or Zerg, in my opinion.
Is Protoss a notorious 1a race in SC2? Definitely not; we need to micro quite a bit. Even if we're just on gateway tech, we often need perfect forcefields, really good blink micro, storms, or feedbacks to succeed on defense or offense. So while the macro aspect may be *easy*, it's not *easy* to micro them. (I'm not saying any other race is a 1a race; I'm merely defending Protoss.)
Is it easy to win outright as Protoss against other races? Not necessarily. The most fearsome early game attack- the 4gate- isn't nearly as intimidating as it was months ago. And late game engagements come down to micro. There's a reason why Protoss is getting its ass kicked in Korea and on an international level. Maybe it's easy for beginners, when no one is very competitive and all you need to do is macro hard... but when you need all the finer points, the race is certainly not on par with the others (let alone easiest overall). And the data defends that.
I have to agree, in my opinin protoss is the race working by the formula "easy to learn, hard to master" The quite simple warpgate mechanic, you have cooldowns, all basic units on 1 hotkey and the easy deployment, make protoss a bit more beginner friendly. I myself find it quite easy to play protoss at a decent level when i am offracing and it feels a lot more relaxed, on the other hand when you reach high masters or even higher the tides can turn really quickly.
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Just because you have a hard time microing your spellcasters doesn't mean that protoss is "the micro race."
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On August 11 2011 06:42 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 06:41 aderum wrote:On August 11 2011 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Press "w" "s" click, repeat, "s" click", until warpgates are on cooldown.
This is why. and this is harder than pressing "5" "s" "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" ? Roaches don't pop out instantly, nor do they blink around.
They also don't cost as much as Stalkers and can be upgraded to move faster than Stalkers.
I think people need to understand that Toss does have easier macro than the rest, and can replenish an army almost as quickly as Zerg can (once you get like 20+ gates) but micro is more important for toss than it is for Terran or Zerg.
No FFs vs Zerg? Have fun getting surrounded. Blink micro? Going 5 gate blink Stalkers makes blink micro very important.
vs Terran? FFs are also important(until Ghosts come out) and make sure you can protect+position Colossi/HTs from Vikings/Ghosts respectively.
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On August 11 2011 06:45 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 06:42 wei2coolman wrote:On August 11 2011 06:41 aderum wrote:On August 11 2011 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Press "w" "s" click, repeat, "s" click", until warpgates are on cooldown.
This is why. and this is harder than pressing "5" "s" "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" ? Roaches don't pop out instantly, nor do they blink around. You do realize that warpgate has cooldown? and that you can reproduce 50 roches at one, while you only can reproduce as many stalkers as you have gateways. I cant really understand how you would say that protoss is so easy when GSL is dominated by zerg and terran. This is just batshit crasy.
GSL is not dominated by zerg and terran.
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EPT
