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It makes me wonder if Steelseries actually read the Blizzard Tos :/
Reguardless of this whole shinanigans, If they didn't advertise this keyboard using SC2 (Because of it being illegal) I would have thought about buying it.
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On June 10 2011 04:27 Vulcano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:11 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 04:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:59 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:50 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:44 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:39 Egyptian_Head wrote:
[quote]
Congrats you have saved 10 seconds the entire game. Not that useful and your opponent doing this is still not affecting your play experience. It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. How does it ruin it for you? Your opponent playing better for whatever reason is not ruining anything for you. Because of how the ladder works you will not face him unless battle net thinks you are evenish in skill. So you wouldn't even be facing him unless you had a decent chance to win. Its not like map hacks where he can see what you are doing. It makes it easier for him and doesn't change a thing for your play experience, only his is changed. Take two players of equal skill in the finals of a tournament. Both multitask pretty much on par with each other. One player gets to use macros to create more units at the click of ONE button, whereas the other player has to cycle his production facilities. As Diks pointed out, one millisecond action in a tough battle vs multiple seconds is a clear advantage for the player using macros. He is allowed to maintain more focus on microing his units as opposed to splitting attention. No, it does not change the second player's game experience, but it is also allowing the first person to basically get a 10 foot advantage in a race. From the video description Disclaimer: Macro's are usually not legal in public StarCraft II tournaments, but can be a good tool when no playing competitively. Grubby, being a professional player, naturally is not using these features on a day-to-day basis - but is simply demonstrating the use of the keyboard and software. Your tournament scenario is irrelevant. Nothing is on the line, play experience not changed... not seeing a problem. Are you seriously arguing that you don't care whether people cheat on ladder? Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Until you are unfairly "PWNT'd" in a macro fight against a lesser player? sounds fun
Losing is part of the game. I don't see a problem, whether the person is better or worse than me really makes no difference to my enjoyment of the match. Why would it? Ladder means we will be similar in skill (Him with keyboard, me without) regardless so why would his skill without the keyboard matter?
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If I use these kind macro's in a custom game against a friend who agrees with me using it, can Blizzard still ban me? (Assuming they find out)
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On June 10 2011 04:37 kedinik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 04:32 deadjon wrote:On June 10 2011 04:29 kedinik wrote:On June 10 2011 04:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 10 2011 04:12 kedinik wrote:
It, uh, isn't against the law to use macros.
No one will cart you off to jail.
Against Blizzard's ToS maybe, but that isn't the same as illegal. Not everything that's illegal means "will cart you off to jail". Illegal also means "against the rules". Using macros is illegal. An action isn't illegal unless you are breaking a law. That's literally the only time it makes any sense to use the word. I understand that you're upset at Grubby and want to make this seem more severe and serious than it really is. Yea, lets turn this into a argument of what Illegal means... –adjective 1. forbidden by law or statute. 2. contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.: The referee ruled that it was an illegal forward pass. Well that was quick. I guess you can be a pedant and use the definition that no one actually uses in modern life, and which does not even exist in Mirriam-Webster or similarly reputable dictionaries. If that's really what you want to do, go for it. Still think the larger issue is that all of these "cheating macros" are actually just kind of useless compared to being a halfway decent gold level player.
I can't tell if you're serious here. Are you trying to say that no one uses the term as specified in the second example? Have you watched any major sporting events in the united stated recently? Terms like "Illegal movement" "Illegal forward pass" or "Illegal formation" are used all the time.
It's a very standard use of the word, and it's clearly not just for use when discussing a states or country's legal system.
But, if you want to continue to think the way you do, I cannot change that.
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On June 10 2011 04:39 nihlon wrote:
If I use these kind macro's in a custom game against a friend who agrees with me using it, can Blizzard still ban me? (Assuming they find out)
I think so? I mean, if me and my friend is playing custom on Starcraft 2 - Blizzards game and we agree that both of us will use maphack we would be banned.
Or if you and your friend agreed that you get to kill him, that would still be murder and against the law. ^^
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Wait....did Steel actually try to dumb down SC2 even more? Why not just use voice command like '4warpgaterush' sit back and enjoy the spectacle
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On June 10 2011 04:38 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 04:27 Vulcano wrote:On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:11 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 04:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:59 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:50 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:44 JFCycWalker wrote:
[quote]
It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. How does it ruin it for you? Your opponent playing better for whatever reason is not ruining anything for you. Because of how the ladder works you will not face him unless battle net thinks you are evenish in skill. So you wouldn't even be facing him unless you had a decent chance to win. Its not like map hacks where he can see what you are doing. It makes it easier for him and doesn't change a thing for your play experience, only his is changed. Take two players of equal skill in the finals of a tournament. Both multitask pretty much on par with each other. One player gets to use macros to create more units at the click of ONE button, whereas the other player has to cycle his production facilities. As Diks pointed out, one millisecond action in a tough battle vs multiple seconds is a clear advantage for the player using macros. He is allowed to maintain more focus on microing his units as opposed to splitting attention. No, it does not change the second player's game experience, but it is also allowing the first person to basically get a 10 foot advantage in a race. From the video description Disclaimer: Macro's are usually not legal in public StarCraft II tournaments, but can be a good tool when no playing competitively. Grubby, being a professional player, naturally is not using these features on a day-to-day basis - but is simply demonstrating the use of the keyboard and software. Your tournament scenario is irrelevant. Nothing is on the line, play experience not changed... not seeing a problem. Are you seriously arguing that you don't care whether people cheat on ladder? Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Until you are unfairly "PWNT'd" in a macro fight against a lesser player? sounds fun Losing is part of the game. I don't see a problem, whether the person is better or worse than me really makes no difference to my enjoyment of the match. Why would it? Ladder means we will be similar in skill (Him with keyboard, me without) regardless so why would his skill without the keyboard matter?
You are narrow-minded beyond belief.
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On June 10 2011 04:42 LemOn wrote:
Wait....did Steel actually try to dumb down SC2 even more? Why not just use voice command like '4warpgaterush' sit back and enjoy the spectacle
this 
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On June 10 2011 04:41 deadjon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 04:37 kedinik wrote:On June 10 2011 04:32 deadjon wrote:On June 10 2011 04:29 kedinik wrote:On June 10 2011 04:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 10 2011 04:12 kedinik wrote:
It, uh, isn't against the law to use macros.
No one will cart you off to jail.
Against Blizzard's ToS maybe, but that isn't the same as illegal. Not everything that's illegal means "will cart you off to jail". Illegal also means "against the rules". Using macros is illegal. An action isn't illegal unless you are breaking a law. That's literally the only time it makes any sense to use the word. I understand that you're upset at Grubby and want to make this seem more severe and serious than it really is. Yea, lets turn this into a argument of what Illegal means... –adjective 1. forbidden by law or statute. 2. contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.: The referee ruled that it was an illegal forward pass. Well that was quick. I guess you can be a pedant and use the definition that no one actually uses in modern life, and which does not even exist in Mirriam-Webster or similarly reputable dictionaries. If that's really what you want to do, go for it. Still think the larger issue is that all of these "cheating macros" are actually just kind of useless compared to being a halfway decent gold level player. I can't tell if you're serious here. Are you trying to say that no one uses the term as specified in the second example? Have you watched any major sporting events in the united stated recently? Terms like "Illegal movement" "Illegal forward pass" or "Illegal formation" are used all the time. It's a very standard use of the word, and it's clearly not just for use when discussing a states or country's legal system. But, if you want to continue to think the way you do, I cannot change that.
I'm saying that even this limited application of illegal only works in the sense of "an illegal pass" or "an illegal foul", and not "an illegal violation of the software ToS."
Criticizing someone for an illegal in-game action is not the same as criticizing someone for "illegally" playing that game much better than you thanks to some enhancement of the player.
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That's a terrible idea for a product by Steel Series.
damn.
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On June 10 2011 04:38 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 04:27 Vulcano wrote:On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:11 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 04:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:59 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:50 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:44 JFCycWalker wrote:
[quote]
It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. How does it ruin it for you? Your opponent playing better for whatever reason is not ruining anything for you. Because of how the ladder works you will not face him unless battle net thinks you are evenish in skill. So you wouldn't even be facing him unless you had a decent chance to win. Its not like map hacks where he can see what you are doing. It makes it easier for him and doesn't change a thing for your play experience, only his is changed. Take two players of equal skill in the finals of a tournament. Both multitask pretty much on par with each other. One player gets to use macros to create more units at the click of ONE button, whereas the other player has to cycle his production facilities. As Diks pointed out, one millisecond action in a tough battle vs multiple seconds is a clear advantage for the player using macros. He is allowed to maintain more focus on microing his units as opposed to splitting attention. No, it does not change the second player's game experience, but it is also allowing the first person to basically get a 10 foot advantage in a race. From the video description Disclaimer: Macro's are usually not legal in public StarCraft II tournaments, but can be a good tool when no playing competitively. Grubby, being a professional player, naturally is not using these features on a day-to-day basis - but is simply demonstrating the use of the keyboard and software. Your tournament scenario is irrelevant. Nothing is on the line, play experience not changed... not seeing a problem. Are you seriously arguing that you don't care whether people cheat on ladder? Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Until you are unfairly "PWNT'd" in a macro fight against a lesser player? sounds fun Losing is part of the game. I don't see a problem, whether the person is better or worse than me really makes no difference to my enjoyment of the match. Why would it? Ladder means we will be similar in skill (Him with keyboard, me without) regardless so why would his skill without the keyboard matter?
You're advocating that cheating be part of the game. As long as he can't see your "drops", it's ok if the opponent cheats. Wow...
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On June 10 2011 04:29 deadjon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:11 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 04:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:59 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:50 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:44 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:39 Egyptian_Head wrote:
[quote]
Congrats you have saved 10 seconds the entire game. Not that useful and your opponent doing this is still not affecting your play experience. It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. How does it ruin it for you? Your opponent playing better for whatever reason is not ruining anything for you. Because of how the ladder works you will not face him unless battle net thinks you are evenish in skill. So you wouldn't even be facing him unless you had a decent chance to win. Its not like map hacks where he can see what you are doing. It makes it easier for him and doesn't change a thing for your play experience, only his is changed. Take two players of equal skill in the finals of a tournament. Both multitask pretty much on par with each other. One player gets to use macros to create more units at the click of ONE button, whereas the other player has to cycle his production facilities. As Diks pointed out, one millisecond action in a tough battle vs multiple seconds is a clear advantage for the player using macros. He is allowed to maintain more focus on microing his units as opposed to splitting attention. No, it does not change the second player's game experience, but it is also allowing the first person to basically get a 10 foot advantage in a race. From the video description Disclaimer: Macro's are usually not legal in public StarCraft II tournaments, but can be a good tool when no playing competitively. Grubby, being a professional player, naturally is not using these features on a day-to-day basis - but is simply demonstrating the use of the keyboard and software. Your tournament scenario is irrelevant. Nothing is on the line, play experience not changed... not seeing a problem. Are you seriously arguing that you don't care whether people cheat on ladder? Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Map hacks automate scounting, no? Keyboard macros automate APM, no? Both would ruin my fun. But I don't see how this is an argument of "fun" but rather an argument regarding a large esports sponsor openly condoning actions against Blizzards ToS. That's bad IMO.
The first person quoting cut off the first part of my post which says that I think people are taking this too seriously not that they should or should not be allowed. Im only arguing that people are taking this way to seriously, im not arguing that they are or are not allowed or even should or should not be allowed. Just that people are taking it to seriously.
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This really makes Grubby look bad. I dont care if he is being paid to do this or not. He is promoting cheating in sc2. That is wrong.
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ye football players should just buy flying shoes and own everyone
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On June 10 2011 04:45 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 04:29 deadjon wrote:On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:11 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 04:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:59 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:50 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:44 JFCycWalker wrote:
[quote]
It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. How does it ruin it for you? Your opponent playing better for whatever reason is not ruining anything for you. Because of how the ladder works you will not face him unless battle net thinks you are evenish in skill. So you wouldn't even be facing him unless you had a decent chance to win. Its not like map hacks where he can see what you are doing. It makes it easier for him and doesn't change a thing for your play experience, only his is changed. Take two players of equal skill in the finals of a tournament. Both multitask pretty much on par with each other. One player gets to use macros to create more units at the click of ONE button, whereas the other player has to cycle his production facilities. As Diks pointed out, one millisecond action in a tough battle vs multiple seconds is a clear advantage for the player using macros. He is allowed to maintain more focus on microing his units as opposed to splitting attention. No, it does not change the second player's game experience, but it is also allowing the first person to basically get a 10 foot advantage in a race. From the video description Disclaimer: Macro's are usually not legal in public StarCraft II tournaments, but can be a good tool when no playing competitively. Grubby, being a professional player, naturally is not using these features on a day-to-day basis - but is simply demonstrating the use of the keyboard and software. Your tournament scenario is irrelevant. Nothing is on the line, play experience not changed... not seeing a problem. Are you seriously arguing that you don't care whether people cheat on ladder? Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Map hacks automate scounting, no? Keyboard macros automate APM, no? Both would ruin my fun. But I don't see how this is an argument of "fun" but rather an argument regarding a large esports sponsor openly condoning actions against Blizzards ToS. That's bad IMO. The first person quoting cut off the first part of my post which says that I think people are taking this too seriously not that they should or should not be allowed. Im only arguing that people are taking this way to seriously, im not arguing that they are or are not allowed or even should or should not be allowed. Just that people are taking it to seriously.
Your attitude of accepting cheating as part of the game scares me. What's going to stop you cheating by using the macros? You said you don't mind if an opponent uses the macros to cheat. What's going to stop you from doing the same if you think cheating is ok? This is what really scares me that there are people who share your beliefs and who cheat in the game because they think it's ok.
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im totally going to buy this
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On June 10 2011 04:48 wordd wrote:
im totally going to buy this
Not for Starcraft 2, right?
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On June 10 2011 04:39 nihlon wrote:
If I use these kind macro's in a custom game against a friend who agrees with me using it, can Blizzard still ban me? (Assuming they find out) They can terminate your account for any reason of course.
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On June 10 2011 04:45 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 04:29 deadjon wrote:On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:11 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 04:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:59 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:50 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:44 JFCycWalker wrote:
[quote]
It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. How does it ruin it for you? Your opponent playing better for whatever reason is not ruining anything for you. Because of how the ladder works you will not face him unless battle net thinks you are evenish in skill. So you wouldn't even be facing him unless you had a decent chance to win. Its not like map hacks where he can see what you are doing. It makes it easier for him and doesn't change a thing for your play experience, only his is changed. Take two players of equal skill in the finals of a tournament. Both multitask pretty much on par with each other. One player gets to use macros to create more units at the click of ONE button, whereas the other player has to cycle his production facilities. As Diks pointed out, one millisecond action in a tough battle vs multiple seconds is a clear advantage for the player using macros. He is allowed to maintain more focus on microing his units as opposed to splitting attention. No, it does not change the second player's game experience, but it is also allowing the first person to basically get a 10 foot advantage in a race. From the video description Disclaimer: Macro's are usually not legal in public StarCraft II tournaments, but can be a good tool when no playing competitively. Grubby, being a professional player, naturally is not using these features on a day-to-day basis - but is simply demonstrating the use of the keyboard and software. Your tournament scenario is irrelevant. Nothing is on the line, play experience not changed... not seeing a problem. Are you seriously arguing that you don't care whether people cheat on ladder? Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Map hacks automate scounting, no? Keyboard macros automate APM, no? Both would ruin my fun. But I don't see how this is an argument of "fun" but rather an argument regarding a large esports sponsor openly condoning actions against Blizzards ToS. That's bad IMO. The first person quoting cut off the first part of my post which says that I think people are taking this too seriously not that they should or should not be allowed. Im only arguing that people are taking this way to seriously, im not arguing that they are or are not allowed or even should or should not be allowed. Just that people are taking it to seriously.
When there is money on the line, people tend to take things very seriously.
Personally, I'd be annoyed to find out that someone beat me in game utilizing these type of programs / keyboards, as I'd not know if it was a fair fight.
Professionally, I'd be let down if they allowed this to happen in a tournament. Just like I'm let down when my favorite pro athlete admits to using performance enhancing drugs, or throwing games for money.
We all want eSports to become a real, legitimate thing, right? Enforcing the rules against this type of thing will only help that, allowing it to persist will hamper it.
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On June 10 2011 04:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 03:59 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:50 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:44 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 03:39 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 03:35 zul wrote:On June 10 2011 03:30 Egyptian_Head wrote:
...
BTW a macro keyboard doesn't really seem that helpful to me in SC2 anyway. you`re wrong. reproducing 50 supply in speedlings takes me about 3 seconds pressing down "z". With a macro I could do the same in less than half a second. imagine this kind of stuff adding up during a whole game. Congrats you have saved 10 seconds the entire game. Not that useful and your opponent doing this is still not affecting your play experience. It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. How does it ruin it for you? Your opponent playing better for whatever reason is not ruining anything for you. Because of how the ladder works you will not face him unless battle net thinks you are evenish in skill. So you wouldn't even be facing him unless you had a decent chance to win. Its not like map hacks where he can see what you are doing. It makes it easier for him and doesn't change a thing for your play experience, only his is changed. Take two players of equal skill in the finals of a tournament. Both multitask pretty much on par with each other. One player gets to use macros to create more units at the click of ONE button, whereas the other player has to cycle his production facilities. As Diks pointed out, one millisecond action in a tough battle vs multiple seconds is a clear advantage for the player using macros. He is allowed to maintain more focus on microing his units as opposed to splitting attention. No, it does not change the second player's game experience, but it is also allowing the first person to basically get a 10 foot advantage in a race. From the video description Disclaimer: Macro's are usually not legal in public StarCraft II tournaments, but can be a good tool when no playing competitively. Grubby, being a professional player, naturally is not using these features on a day-to-day basis - but is simply demonstrating the use of the keyboard and software. Your tournament scenario is irrelevant. Nothing is on the line, play experience not changed... not seeing a problem.
Why does map hack mater then. By what you are saying it doesn't effect your experience. If you meet a map hacker on ladder you meet him because you have the same MMR and so the fight is fair. He has god aweful gameplay but full map vision. You have decent macro/micro/etc but you don't have full map vision. So that's a fair match acording to you.
So you just made an argument for allowing map hacks. Okay mate, good luck with that.
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EPT
