EPTVegetarian/Vegan Thread - Page 22
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Do not make this a debate on meat eating. You don't need to prove people "wrong" about their eating habits. | ||
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Laerties
United States361 Posts
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RoTaNiMoD
United States558 Posts
I am personally not ready to go vegetarian and probably never will be -- I really, really enjoy meat -- but kudos to you guys. | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.> Hahaha, well, I guess as far as animals go chicken and fish are pretty stupid. Maybe she feels OK eating them because they arent that bright to begin with! Question to vegetarians here, would you eat insects? Seems like you only really don't like eating somewhat intelligent mammals. In that case it is just a value judgement as to how much a creature is worth. Edit: a not an | ||
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Yizuo
Germany1537 Posts
On April 18 2011 07:46 Romantic wrote: Hahaha, well, I guess as far as animals go chicken and fish are pretty stupid. Maybe she feels OK eating them because they arent that bright to begin with! Question to vegetarians here, would you eat insects? Seems like you only really don't like eating somewhat intelligent mammals. In that case it is just a value judgement as to how much a creature is worth. Edit: a not an There are alot of reasons for not eating animals and alot of them apply to insects as well. I personally would have less of a problem eating insects than cows or chicken though, but I probably still wouldn't do it. Depends on alot of factors though, for example how they are killed, how they are kept and how they are fed. | ||
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PhalThrax
United States14 Posts
On April 18 2011 07:43 Laerties wrote: Is it harder to keep on/gain weight if your a vegetarian? I've been thinking about switching but I only weight 110 lbs and i'm 17, I'm nervous that I will start loosing weight if I make the switch. Although not a rule, it is somewhat common for people to lose some weight subsequent their change to vegetarianism. However, it's pertinent to note that "vegetarian" doesn't necessarily equate to "low calorie." There are plenty of vegetarian foods that still contain a great deal of fat, sodium, and calories. I'll provide a real-life example: I knew of an individual who made the transition to being vegetarian, but made candy bars/snack food a near nightly ritual. Needless to say, no weight loss resulted from this transformation (she actually gained a few pounds). Like most diets, it all depends on your portion control and making smart meal choices. If you're concerned about weight loss, nuts are a high-calorie food that most vegans/vegetarians look to. It's quite a healthy food, assuming you ingest it with portion control in mind. Best of luck to you with whichever route you take  | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On April 18 2011 07:43 Laerties wrote: Is it harder to keep on/gain weight if your a vegetarian? I've been thinking about switching but I only weight 110 lbs and i'm 17, I'm nervous that I will start loosing weight if I make the switch. "Vegetarian" is usually understood to mean that you still eat dairy products and eggs. That should be enough to replace everything you would have gotten from meat, so I cannot see how you would lose weight. You can also cook greasy vegetarian meals, just like it is with meat.  My own experience is this: I slowly drifted away from eating a lot of meat to eating more vegetables and eventually no meat in my own cooking. I never in my life ate sweets daily and always liked drinking pure water the most when thirsty, never soft drinks. Nothing happened to my weight, it stayed exactly the same without meat. It varies from 165 to 175 lb depending on how much I use my bicycle, I think. EDIT: What PhalTrax said: if you buy those bags with various nuts and raisins and always have them within reach, you will definitely not lose weight. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On April 18 2011 07:46 Romantic wrote: Hahaha, well, I guess as far as animals go chicken and fish are pretty stupid. Maybe she feels OK eating them because they arent that bright to begin with! Question to vegetarians here, would you eat insects? Seems like you only really don't like eating somewhat intelligent mammals. In that case it is just a value judgement as to how much a creature is worth. Edit: a not an I must admit being vegan plus eating insects feels like it makes more sense than being vegetarian and torturing chicken and cows, but the thought of eating insects seriously creeps me out. The food industry would have to come to the rescue to at least turn the bugs into unrecognizable paste before selling it to me. And after that I would still need some brain washing. :> | ||
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Deja Thoris
South Africa646 Posts
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.> Why don't you just tell her to look up the meaning of vegetarian in a dictionary? Noun: A person who does not eat meat, and sometimes other animal products, esp. for moral, religious, or health reasons Chicken and fish are meat. You can rib her for not being a vego and for not understanding the meaning of words (rib was a pun, geddit!?) | ||
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Dalguno
United States2446 Posts
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norsK
United States131 Posts
On April 18 2011 08:20 Ropid wrote: "Vegetarian" is usually understood to mean that you still eat dairy products and eggs. That should be enough to replace everything you would have gotten from meat, so I cannot see how you would lose weight. You can also cook greasy vegetarian meals, just like it is with meat. My own experience is this: I slowly drifted away from eating a lot of meat to eating more vegetables and eventually no meat in my own cooking. I never in my life ate sweets daily and always liked drinking pure water the most when thirsty, never soft drinks. Nothing happened to my weight, it stayed exactly the same without meat. It varies from 165 to 175 lb depending on how much I use my bicycle, I think. I very much agree with, and can confirm this. I have been a vegetarian my entire life. My parents made the switch about 10 years before I was born and had my sister two years later. My mother has always been a great cook and stay at home mom. Every day of the week, every week of the month, she would make something different and delicious. It was not simply vegetables steamed, or some bullshit that you would find in a restaurant where the cooks who grill meat all day are asked to make something "veggie." She never allowed un-natural sweets in the house, no soft drinks, nothing you could microwave (no microwave in the house.) She is a 35 year+ teacher of Yoga and practices daily in her own routine. Much of how I grew up shaped my diet. To this day I do not own a microwave, and very rarely eat sweets or soft drinks. It's not that I don't like them, but more I have no taste for them. It just seems ridiculous to me to drink a bottle of sugar water that makes me more thirsty when there are so many better options... one being free and out of a faucet 10 feet away. In addition to not having cravings for things like that, I have no taste or desire for meat. Some meat even smells pretty good to me, but if put it in my mouth my brain tells me not to eat it. Mouth starts to water, stomach starts to turn, and its out of my mouth shortly after the first chew. My Sister is 33 and a licensed acupuncturist. She has three amazing little girls, and her entire family is vegetarian with heavy glimpses of vegan and raw food diets. She also studies Yoga and leads an active lifestyle. Her health is a direct relation to her diet and motivation to work and stay in shape. Mom and Dad are still vegetarians, 35 years now, and maintain a healthy daily walk every morning and 3 great home cooked meals. They are 63 and 64 and are on no medication, have no regular doctors, and have not had any health problems. My mom has not had to go to the doctor in over 10 years, which was simply a checkup. All of my family goes to my sister for advice on Chinese medicine or Acupuncture/pressure before considering western medicine. Since I was a boy my peers have always been astounded by my never eating meat. Many because of the sheer deliciousness of meat, and others the health benefits. The decision springs from how we are raised, and hopefully whether or not it has worked for us and our family. I have never had a reason to eat meat. I eat right, and I know how to cook for myself and maintain protein. It is not difficult - meat is not the only way humans are supposed to be nourished --; In my earlier 20's I started working as a cook in downtown Seattle while attending school. I was good at it, had a great influence from my childhood, and amazing teachers along the way. Eventually I was a chef at a restaurant outside of downtown Seattle. I created a menu, weekly specials, catered events, and worked the hot line with my crew. Obviously, people eat meat. I get that, and have never had a problem with it. I like cutting meat, I like cooking meat, and I LOVE creating dishes using meat for a meat lover to enjoy. I just don't eat it. I see it as a texture, with a consistency created from fire. Whatever diet you choose, make sure it is conducive to your well being. Eating meat can be JUST as healthy as a vegetarian diet. Vegetarian diets can be JUST as full of protein and healthy fats as a steak dinner. Take consideration of what your putting in your body, whether it has walked the earth or not, and you will be a healthy happy person :D | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On April 18 2011 09:05 Dalguno wrote: How does all the carbohydrates treat your pancreas? It seems like that'd be a whole lot of insulin, but I don't really know. The meals do not have more carbohydrates! Well... at least there are not more carbohydrates in my following example: Imagine a plate with a steak and rice and beans. The carbohydrates of the meal are almost completely in the rice. The steak is protein. Beans have very little carbohydrates and have proteins (a quarter to a third of meat at the same weight). Vegetarian would be without the steak. The beans and rice can stay. You now make a thick sauce out of thoroughly fried diced onions, celery stalks and bell pepper. With that you can make the beans taste awesome and then increase the amount of beans and replace the missing proteins like that. You put the beans beside the rice. On the opposite side of the plate you shovel some cold yoghurt on the rim beside the rice. The onions, celery, bell pepper add very little carbohydrates and Yoghurt adds a bit of proteins to the meal. The vast majority of carbohydrates on the plate is still in the rice, same as with the steak plate. | ||
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Cranberries
Wales567 Posts
On April 18 2011 09:02 Deja Thoris wrote: Why don't you just tell her to look up the meaning of vegetarian in a dictionary? Noun: A person who does not eat meat, and sometimes other animal products, esp. for moral, religious, or health reasons Chicken and fish are meat. You can rib her for not being a vego and for not understanding the meaning of words (rib was a pun, geddit!?)I'm not a jerk... I'm only a jerk to people I dislike, I do not know, or I have no intention in liking. To be honest I love her (this is the gentle love we share): Cranberries says: 12 is a lot i have about 6 pairs of shoes? xD Saffi says: ur a guy Cranberries says: gay guy ! Saffi says: i have only like 4 i wear most bi that mostly likes guys Cranberries says: whatever you're a vegetarian that likes chicken and fish Saffi says: XD u suck lol Cranberries says: duhhh, i love it It's more that I don't understand vegetarians at all... I wake up in the morning - have a bacon and egg sammich, and I'm in heaven :< | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
 thats y u see poor people are usually fatter than rich.. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
I need them meats! The only vegetarians I don't like are the ones that try to act superior/tell you how to eat/live. Don't force your opinions on other people =/ | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
On April 18 2011 11:17 Subversion wrote: Don't force your opinions on other people =/ Why not? If I found eating meat immoral, why wouldn't I try to make other people follow a moral path that reduced suffering? | ||
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postlapsaria
United States137 Posts
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Cranberries
Wales567 Posts
On April 18 2011 11:51 Romantic wrote: Why not? If I found eating meat immoral, why wouldn't I try to make other people follow a moral path that reduced suffering? it makes you look like a cunt? seriously why the fuck do you think people despise religious people who force their views onto others. christ. | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
On April 18 2011 11:56 Cranberries wrote: it makes you look like a cunt? seriously why the fuck do you think people despise religious people who force their views onto others. christ. Because they disagree with this specific moral proposition, not the idea that morals should be enforced. It doesn't really make any sense to have this kind of moral relativism if you thought about it for a minute. If we took this seriously, I could say, "well, it is just your opinion that murder\theft\forgery is wrong. Forcing it on me is just forcing your personal morality on to me." Basic observation here is most if not all laws regard some sort of moral judgement being enforced. Unless you believe in absolute lawlessness you don't actually disagree with enforcing morals, you are just disagreeing over a specific moral proposition and\or the solution to it. I wouldn't fault a vegetarian for wanting to prevent something immoral through whatever form of activism, I would just disagree that what they think is immoral is actually immoral. Those are two distinct things. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On April 18 2011 11:51 Romantic wrote: Why not? If I found eating meat immoral, why wouldn't I try to make other people follow a moral path that reduced suffering? Do you still eat cheese and drink milk? If you do then you are worse than the people who eat meat, because you only pretend not to kill animals, but you are participating in it anyways and dont honor the animal by using its remains. Kinda like those "Buffalo hunters" which crossed the plains of the US in trains and shot the peaceful herds from those trains and left the animals to rot. A cow only gives milk for 9 months after she has had a calf; generally she gets a few months rest after that milk giving period. Imagine if all of these calfs are let to live and calculate the number of cattle you would have after a natural lifespan of 20 years or so. About 95% (*1) of these would not do anything but would still have to be fed ... So the only real ethical choice is to buy your meat and dairy products from sources where you know the animal has not been mistreated. There are also a lot of sweets which advertise their content of milk and some of them are just plain wrong to eat, because they exist only due to the surplus in milk production (at least in the EU). If everyone would buy biologically produced meat and dairy products "the industry" would take notice and might be switching to that kind of production. It is the treatment of the animals which is bad, not the eating of meat. Sure the steak would be 100g instead of 400g, but too much meat is bad and all those "super size burgers" or "giant steak eating contests" are giving a bad example anyways. Everyone has the right to choose his own diet, but the "ethical vegetarians" who still consume milk and dairy products should stop with the pretense that they are nicer to animals. ---- (*1) Lets start with 10.000 cattle, half of them cows and the other bulls, the 5000 cows are used for milk production and thus have to give birth to 1 calf each. Thats 5000 calves every year for 20 years (roughly a cows lifespan) and NONE of those are needed for milk production. So after 20 years you have 100.000 cattle (the original 10.000 died naturally) and only 5000 of them produce milk. Sure you could use more cows to produce milk, but you would have more calves as a result. | ||
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