Use this thread to share recipes, health advice (supplements etc), or any questions about if you're interested in becoming vegetarian/vegan.
I've been vegetarian for a year and teched up to vegan about 3 months ago. i'm aware my id isn't vegan I've found turning vegan easy, being an avid cook and generally healthy person.
Frogurt's vegan pumpkin soup: Ingredients: 1/2 a large Pumpkin 4 Potatoes (Or 1:1 ratio with pumpkin) 1 Large Onion 3 Garlic cloves Vegetable stock Olive oil 500ml of soy milk (regular milk for vegetarians) Spices: Salt, pepper, coriander, Chilli flakes(optional)
1.Slice onions and roughly cut garlic cloves, add to large pot on high heat with olive oil (cook until slight browning) 2. Flesh pumpkin and cut potato into cubes 3. Add Pumpkin, Potato, Spices and Vegie stock (enough to submerge ingredients) to pot, medium heat until potatoes are soft 4. Ladel ingredients into blender (Try not to get too much stock in the blender or soup will be watery, you should have some left over in the pot) 5. Bend until creamy while adding milk, usually takes 2 loads of blending 6. Serve in large bowl, sprinkle coriander and drop of milk in the centre because it looks cool.
Ingredients: 2 Potatoes 2 Carrots 4-5 Pieces of Broccoli Onion (if you like, personally i dont) 1 Cob of Corn 30g of Frozen Peas 1 can of Coconut Cream Curry Powder, Salt, Pepper, Chilli Flakes, Tumeric
1. Slice Potatoes into cubes and Carrots into sticks 2. Flesh corn cob and save kernels in a bowl 2. Add potatoes and carrots to a large saucepan in some water, turn heat on high 3. Add Broccoli after a couple of minutes, because it cooks faster than potato and carrot 4. Cook on high heat until vegetables are kind of soft 5. Drain water and add coconut cream 6. Add onion, peas, corn and spices 7. Cook on medium while stirring, until vegetables are soft 8. Serve with rice
Pad Thai- 3 Tbsp tamarind paste (again, go to the Asian food store ) 3 Tbsp ketchup 2 Tbsp brown sugar 2 Tbsp soy sauce
Stiry-fry half a block of tofu with a few chopped cloves of garlic, then add some sliced carrots and broccoli florets. Soak rice noodles in hot water, and add the noodles when they're done plus the sauce. Put in about a cup of beansprouts, and some chopped green onions. Add egg if you want at the end, then eat with chopped peanuts and crushed red chili flakes =D
Teriyaki Tofu and Vegetables- Just stiry fry some tofu, mushrooms, broccoli and sliced (or shredded) carrots, plus a healthy amount of beansprouts. Put on rice, pour on some teriyaki sauce and add some spicy chili sauce. So good..
Vegetable broth 6 carrots 3 onions 3 stalks celery salt & pepper some herbs (thyme, basil, parsley, whatever) 1 bay leaf 6 cloves of garlic 1 cup white wine
Crush the garlic cloves with the side of your knife, and roughly chop the vegetables. Add all ingredients except the wine to a large pot. Cover with water (I usually add a little more here). Bring everything to a boil and simmer for an hour. Remove from heat and add the wine. Let it cool for a while. If you have time you can leave it overnight. Then pour everything through a strainer and divide into smaller portions for freezing. Done!
- You basically take half cup of almonds - blend with cup of water - add 3 bananas, blend - optionally add some strawberries or kiwi or whatever fruit in the amount you want. I prefer about 5-10 strawberries.
On April 12 2011 03:11 visual77 wrote: I've been vegetarian since birth. My parents converted 4 years before I was born.
Do you enjoy it? I always wonder about what my kids will eat, if i have them. I would like them to be vegetarian/vegan but i'd rather let them decide for themselves, also issues of malnutrition related to growth.
I've been vegan for what, almost 4 years or so? I took the change straight from omnivore. It really wasn't that hard. I don't regret it, and I like the way it makes me feel. Not just consciously, but physically too. I'll post some recipes later, and you should add any recipes posted to the op for easy access.
And I really hope this thread doesn't turn into a shitstorm like all the others. Just remember, not everyone wants to criticize your decisions on what you eat. So please, I hope that no one (both omnivores and herbivores) starts any arguing here. Thanks
My current living quarters include two veggies, means nearly only vegetarian food on the menu. I eat like a madman compared to thoose two and I'am still nearly always hungry. I've lost weight, musclemass and energy levels are bad, and this is with supposedly nutrient veggie food. =( Basicly, my body seems to spit all veggie food straight through. I feel so nice when I manage to get some potatoes and bacon done in a veil of secrecy
I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
I am not a vegetarian, I used to eat like 70% vegetarian food at one time and what really turned me of is the tastelessness of anything that isn't made "a la minute" (sp?). I really feel that vegetarian pre made food and substitutes are really poorly made.
I work as chef and honestly vegetarian food can be good but it takes a lot of effort (and love) to make it not taste like a watered down meat dishes; especially soup with vegetable stock instead of chicken stock. You really need to spice vegetarian dishes a lot more than meat dishes to get a satisfying result.
I hope this thread can be mature, but I think a lot of people are gonna come to make fun of your crazy green eating ways. That's alright.
I've been thinking about quitting meat. I could use a little bit of weight loss (I'm 6'3 225lb. right now :< ) and I've made friends around campus with some animal rights activists that have kinda shifted my perspective on things a bit. I'd be interested to hear the stories of any vegans/vegetarians here who gave up eating meat and how you did it? How did life change for you after you quit meat?
I am not a vegetarian but I don't really eat meat. I just don't like meat that much. I don't like the taste or texture of most meats, although I do enjoy a hamburger or hotdog here and there. I would like to become a vegetarian because i really love animals but there are just some foods that I don't want to give up . I also eat fish but I heard that doesn't count or something.
On April 12 2011 03:29 Eppa! wrote: I am not a vegetarian, I used to eat like 70% vegetarian food at one time and what really turned me of is the tastelessness of anything that isn't made "a la minute" (sp?). I really feel that vegetarian pre made food and substitutes are really poorly made.
I work as chef and honestly vegetarian food can be good but it takes a lot of effort (and love) to make it not taste like a watered down meat dish; especially soup with vegetable stock instead of chicken stock.
I agree. A lot of substitutes taste like shit. But after shopping around a while and trying different ones, some decent ones can be found. I guess it's really about time and effort of finding good substitutes and not cooking it half assed. Because let's just say when I first became vegan, a lot of the food I made was... lol.
Im not a veggie per se, there's really nothing I won't eat.....but there's no reason that you need to eat meat everyday, try avoiding meat 1-2 days a week. You'll feel better, and also when you do eat meat, it will feel sorta like a treat.
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
I'm not a vegetarian, but my girlfriend (with whom I live) is. Gonna agree that pre-prepared vegetarian food is generally pretty meh (even she won't touch a boca burger with a 10 foot pole, for example.) but you can do some really amazing things with fresh produce and some time to cook. I've added a lot of vegetarian recipes to my list of things I can cook (Spinach Lasagna, a bunch of awesome things involving zucchini and broccoli, etc.)
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
Someone who doesn't eat land animals or birds but eats fish, crustaceans and such is called a pescetarian. My sister was on/off vegetarian/pescetarian/omnivore for the longest time because she wanted to lose weight.
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
I've always found it weird that eggs are considered vegetarian. In my mind, it's nearly the same thing as meat.
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
Someone who doesn't eat land animals or birds but eats fish, crustaceans and such is called a pescetarian. My sister was on/off vegetarian/pescetarian/omnivore for the longest time because she wanted to lose weight.
Well I don't eat fish either way. Some people on the net say fish is vegetarian and some say not but I get confused. Personally, I don't find it vegetarian because its an animal but was just asking how it was perceived in the scientific world. For food, my parents just make mostly Indian food, which is vegetarian and on saturdays and sundays we usually have western food (which is vegetarian obv)
Yeah, i agree - the world would be better if vegan, but only because people abuse the 'system' and keep fast food chains and processed meat factories in business. Poverty, mainly American, is the root of the problem and that doesn't go away by conversion by the wealthy.
Anyways, the inevitable consequence of a world-wide conversion would be a huge development of mono culture agrarian farms. Farmers who feed their cattle antibiotics today would spray their crops with illegal growth stimulants tomorrow and before we know it our entire ecosystem might be fucked.
I'm not sure it's our food that needs changing, rather its our process of consumption. Homo sapiens are simply not prepared for supermarkets and need some time to adapt.
On April 12 2011 03:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I hope this thread can be mature, but I think a lot of people are gonna come to make fun of your crazy green eating ways. That's alright.
I've been thinking about quitting meat. I could use a little bit of weight loss (I'm 6'3 225lb. right now :< ) and I've made friends around campus with some animal rights activists that have kinda shifted my perspective on things a bit. I'd be interested to hear the stories of any vegans/vegetarians here who gave up eating meat and how you did it? How did life change for you after you quit meat?
Stopping to eat meat will yield you nothing in your quest for weight loss if you binge on grains and refinded sugars.
Check by on the TL Health and Fitness thread and people will help you.
Can you put up a definition of what being a vegan is? Also, is this more of a choice of a healthier life or for more moral choices?
My definitions: Vegetarian: Not eating any products that require the animal to be killed Pescetarian: Same as vegetarian but disregarding fish/crustacea Vegan: Not eating/wearing/using any animal products
My reasons are: 1. Healthier 2. More eco-friendly 3. Usually cheaper 4. Ethical reasons
I once had to eat vegan, and as an athlete, I quickly suffered from general lethargy and anemia.
Whatever floats your boat.... Ketogenic diet works the best for me as I have much higher energy levels on that than any other diet, even though it's almost the exact opposite of a vegan diet.
On April 12 2011 03:52 MangoTango wrote: Didn't we have a vegetarianism thread a while ago? And someone opened a carnivorism counterthread, and both got closed?
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
That isn't necessarily an option. I grew up on a vegetarian diet (parents are vegetarian) and now I get physically sick when I try to eat meat. My body simply cannot handle it. So if you want your kids to be able to have a real choice at a later age, they will have to eat at least some while growing up if they are anything like me.
The best thing about my father being vegan and eating vegan food is the feeling you get from eating a lot. You never get the sort of ill and "full" feeling you get from eating meat. Eating what you're body is capable of, of vegan food is so much better than with meat. Friends always mock and say "I could never give up meat." I can't recall a single time the last 4 years living with my father I have "missed" meat or "craved for it. Vegan food, if prepared right, is so much bettar than the food people around me usually eat. But I guess you could say the same of food with meat too.
My reasons are: 1. Healthier 2. More eco-friendly 3. Usually cheaper 4. Ethical reasons
Can you explain point 1.? As far as I know, eating a balanced omnivorous diet is generally considered healthier among nutritionists than a pure vegan diet.
On April 12 2011 03:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I hope this thread can be mature, but I think a lot of people are gonna come to make fun of your crazy green eating ways. That's alright.
I've been thinking about quitting meat. I could use a little bit of weight loss (I'm 6'3 225lb. right now :< ) and I've made friends around campus with some animal rights activists that have kinda shifted my perspective on things a bit. I'd be interested to hear the stories of any vegans/vegetarians here who gave up eating meat and how you did it? How did life change for you after you quit meat?
It's very possible to be vegetarian and overweight, but vegetarian diets will definitely help you lose weight. If you eat meat its very easy to eat unhealthy, but when you have strict rules on what you eat, you usually have less spontaneous binges.
Some people gradually eat less meat, i just went cold turkey with both vegetarianism and veganism. My life was great afterwards because i felt healthier (i was a chubby little omnivore) and felt great about eating ethically.
i was raised vegetarian but quit when I was like 12. I didn't really care about the morals involved and was just sick of being limited when I hung out with friends or went out to eat etc. I'm 21 now and I went back to being vegetarian like 2 years ago. Mostly due to my love of animals but also in small part to diet. I'm considering vegan but I'm not sure I'm ready to deal with all the inconveniences involved. Plus as a college student I basically live off pizza and coffee lol.
Also those veggie wings are pretty blah. textured veggie protein breaded and flavored with shitty mild sauce. not even close to the real thing and not particularly tasty... I live in buffalo and wings are probably the thing I miss the most lol.
My reasons are: 1. Healthier 2. More eco-friendly 3. Usually cheaper 4. Ethical reasons
Can you explain point 1.? As far as I know, eating a balanced omnivorous diet is generally considered healthier among nutritionists than a pure vegan diet.
I'm no scientographer but when i went vegan i felt healthier and became fitter, but thats just personal experience.
Can you put up a definition of what being a vegan is? Also, is this more of a choice of a healthier life or for more moral choices?
My reasons are: 1. Healthier 3. Usually cheaper
I have no qualms with the other reasons, but these 2 are false or at least not universally true if taken at face value. Having worked at a clinical analysis laboratory for a significant amount of time, I can attest that a lot of vegans and vegetarians showed up with anemia and various protein deficiencies. I know you can work your diet to be vegan/vegetarian and have normal iron/protein levels but it often requires careful planning and/or supplementation.
Which brings me to my next point, usually this planning/supplementation requires goods which are pricier. Additionally, the recipes required to keep a varied vegan/vegetarian diet are usually more expensive than a less restrictive diet. Finally, fresh products are in most cases more expensive than other goods. Thus, being a healthy vegetarin eating fresh produce will tend to cost more money in general.
My reasons are: 1. Healthier 2. More eco-friendly 3. Usually cheaper 4. Ethical reasons
Can you explain point 1.? As far as I know, eating a balanced omnivorous diet is generally considered healthier among nutritionists than a pure vegan diet.
I'm no scientographer but when i went vegan i felt healthier and became fitter, but thats just personal experience.
If you feel good that's fine bro. But I know lots of people who start to improve in many aspects of life when they switch to vegetarian. I don't think being vegetarian makes you healthier, but the general feeling and thought that you live a better life (aka. placebo). Some people might quit eating crap when they switch to vegetarian, and they give all the credit to being vegetarian even though their improved condition was due to leaving all the crap out of the diet.
I'm following a ketogenic diet (lots of meats and fats, carbs from only green veggies) and my experience is similar to yours, but I think it's also because I'm constantly telling myself that I should feel better.
On April 12 2011 03:59 Therapy wrote: i was raised vegetarian but quit when I was like 12. I didn't really care about the morals involved and was just sick of being limited when I hung out with friends or went out to eat etc. I'm 21 now and I went back to being vegetarian like 2 years ago. Mostly due to my love of animals but also in small part to diet. I'm considering vegan but I'm not sure I'm ready to deal with all the inconveniences involved. Plus as a college student I basically live off pizza and coffee lol.
Also those veggie wings are pretty blah. textured veggie protein breaded and flavored with shitty mild sauce. not even close to the real thing and not particularly tasty... I live in buffalo and wings are probably the thing I miss the most lol.
I was apprehensive at first about switching to vegan, but my friend convinced me to try it and i never turned back. You can make pizza with cheese substitute and have your coffee with soy milk
The main inconvienience is not being able to eat much fast food because they often have vegetarian options, but rarely vegan.
So i suggest trying it out for a couple of months and seeing how you go.
On April 12 2011 03:34 relyt wrote: I am not a vegetarian but I don't really eat meat. I just don't like meat that much. I don't like the taste or texture of most meats, although I do enjoy a hamburger or hotdog here and there. I would like to become a vegetarian because i really love animals but there are just some foods that I don't want to give up . I also eat fish but I heard that doesn't count or something.
You are probably the first person I ever came across that also thinks that way. I don't eat meat either, except for fish every now and then when I feel like it. But not because I'm a vegetarian / hippy (seriously noone likes hippies) but just because I don't care for it. It started with hardly eating any meat at all and after a while I just stopped eating meat completely. I do still eat some meat every now and then in restaurants / at friends when I have no other options but I must say, since I stopped eating meat it all starts to taste less and less yummie. In fact I just refuse to eat pork these days, something about the taste just really puts me off.
How people can be vegan though is beyond me. Stuff like eggs and milk are really good for you, and it's not like eggs are living animals, seriously pay attention in biology class. If you are worried about the wellbeing of the chickens simply buy biological brand eggs, they are only a few cents more expensive, which shouldn't matter much since eating vegetarian is soooo much cheaper than a meat diet.
On April 12 2011 03:52 DNB wrote: I once had to eat vegan, and as an athlete, I quickly suffered from general lethargy and anemia.
Whatever floats your boat.... Ketogenic diet works the best for me as I have much higher energy levels on that than any other diet, even though it's almost the exact opposite of a vegan diet.
That's just untrue, although I can't speak for a vegan diet, but in terms of a vegeterian diet there is no difference in energy levels as long as you eat the right foods. Your body doesnt care if some type of molecule it needs comes from a plant or meat. I myself am more buff / in better condition that most of my (meat eating) friends. Also there are quite a few top athletes that are vegetarian.
i stopped eating meat, eggs, fish and dairy products like 3 months ago, after i saw the best documentation ever made: Earthlings. + Show Spoiler +
Even after 3 months I sometimes have a hard time buying from a german supermarket, since almost every product uses animals. Like this one time I wanted to buy olives, but this big store only had olives which were drowned in lactic acid. A pineapple-mango smoothie, with milk! I even stopped buying products where i couldnt read and understand the ingredients-tables. And they are written in chinese for me
And last, but not least, I fear I am eating too much soy. Soy milk, soy yoghurt, tofu, soy sprouts. At least 2 times a day!
I've been eating vegetarian food from age 15-17 and again from 23-now (18 months). I definately agree that you stop missing meat very fast... I tried to read up on the internet what kinds of food veggies should eat more to get all the nutrients we need, but I didn't really get an answer that satisfied me. So much contradictory info ... Any tips?
On April 12 2011 03:11 visual77 wrote: I've been vegetarian since birth. My parents converted 4 years before I was born.
Do you enjoy it? I always wonder about what my kids will eat, if i have them. I would like them to be vegetarian/vegan but i'd rather let them decide for themselves, also issues of malnutrition related to growth.
Meh. I've spent a very, very long time trying to decide if I'm glad they did that or not. I felt very different from all the other kids and was pretty ostracized because of it. It was an awkward childhood. I tried breaking free from it when I was about 18 (I'm 25 now), but just couldn't stand the taste of meat. It was so foreign to me and was just not enjoyable. I gave up about 6 months in and accepted that this is the way I'll always be.
I tend to hate most vegetarians, though. The more recently someone converted, the more of a pain they are to be around. Most people don't find out that I'm vegetarian until it is absolutely necessary for them to know, because I get preemptively shit on for the preaching they think I'm about to do, but never actually do.
Going out to eat is a pain, though. I can eat just one or two items at any restaurant. When I'm making food for myself, I've got just as many options as anyone else, though. I never really feel restricted in that regard.
I think I'm overall happy that this is how things have been, though. It's just annoying dealing with obnoxious vegetarians and obnoxious non-vegetarians when I just want to be left alone as far as my diet is concerned.
For people who say that they are afraid of malnutrition, just eat eggs and beans. I am not a vegetarian, but my gf is and therefore there can be long periods of time where I abstain from eating meat. Eggs always give me that extra energy and satisfaction that I feel is lacking when you don't eat meat.
If you're vegan then I don't know what to say... I love cheese and eggs. I would die. Strangely though I prefer soy milk to regular milk. I guess if i was vegan I would eat a lot of beans. Beans are good and have protein.
To the guy who grew up a vegetarian, my gf is the same way, she actually cannot stand the smell of meat or meat cooking. She equates the smell of cooking meat to sewage. Beans beans for every meal, the more you eat the better you feel...
On April 12 2011 04:16 visual77 wrote: [...]Most people don't find out that I'm vegetarian until it is absolutely necessary for them to know, because I get preemptively shit on for the preaching they think I'm about to do, but never actually do.
Going out to eat is a pain, though. I can eat just one or two items at any restaurant. When I'm making food for myself, I've got just as many options as anyone else, though. I never really feel restricted in that regard.
I think I'm overall happy that this is how things have been, though. It's just annoying dealing with obnoxious vegetarians and obnoxious non-vegetarians when I just want to be left alone as far as my diet is concerned.
I feel you... It's super annoying when people find out you are vegetarian and try to argue with you about it. Or even worse, think they have this shit figured out and try to illuminate you why it's dumb...
Also, eating at a restaurant is indeed often annoying .
I never understood why vegan food has to be meat dishes where you substitute the meat for a terrible vegan alternative, Like "veggie burgers" or "veggie chicken nuggets". Yuck. There's so much delicious proper vegan food to be had!
I'm not a vegetarian, but about half of the food I make for myself is vegetarian, mostly just because I like it.
People in this thread should consider joining VAAR, the leaderless, organizationless movement of Vegetarians who want people to quit thinking we're animal lovers and start recognization that the economic, environmental (and in my own case, personal taste in food) concerns are often reason enough to stop eating meat. (Vegetarians Against Animal Rights)
Also, whey protein, soy milk, chick peas, kidney beans, bananas, and egg whites, for the lactose intolerant vegetarians (I know you're out there) who are like half vegan by design.
On April 12 2011 04:21 Serthius wrote: I never understood why vegan food has to be meat dishes where you substitute the meat for a terrible vegan alternative, Like "veggie burgers" or "veggie chicken nuggets". Yuck. There's so much delicious proper vegan food to be had!
I'm not a vegetarian, but about half of the food I make for myself is vegetarian, mostly just because I like it.
I really like vegetarian hot dogs, but only one specific brand. I don't like the way most of them taste. I like it because the texture / taste / shape is a really good anchor point for the center of the meal. The same goes with veggie burgers.
On April 12 2011 04:18 seaofsaturn wrote: For people who say that they are afraid of malnutrition, just eat eggs and beans. I am not a vegetarian, but my gf is and therefore there can be long periods of time where I abstain from eating meat. Eggs always give me that extra energy and satisfaction that I feel is lacking when you don't eat meat.
If you're vegan then I don't know what to say... I love cheese and eggs. I would die. Strangely though I prefer soy milk to regular milk. I guess if i was vegan I would eat a lot of beans. Beans are good and have protein.
To the guy who grew up a vegetarian, my gf is the same way, she actually cannot stand the smell of meat or meat cooking. She equates the smell of cooking meat to sewage. Beans beans for every meal, the more you eat the better you feel...
Eggs are great for protein, but can be replaced by beans, tofu, chickpeas, spinach, peas, broccoli etc. As for cheese, you can use tofutti or other cheese substitutes to meet your gooey, greasy needs.
On April 12 2011 04:20 Yizuo wrote: I feel you... It's super annoying when people find out you are vegetarian and try to argue with you about it. Or even worse, think they have this shit figured out and try to illuminate you why it's dumb...
This goes often both ways I guess. I know lots of vegans with this holier than thou-attitude when they start bashing and arguing against someone who wants to eat a diet with some meat in it.
On April 12 2011 04:24 frogurt wrote:
Eggs are great for protein, but can be replaced by beans, tofu, chickpeas, spinach, peas, broccoli etc.
Seriously? Do you even have an idea how much you would have to eat those to get even a slightly significant amount of protein?
Beans and tofu are fine, but don't offer the full amino-profile as eggs do.
I have high respect for vegans. I could never do that... not even close. Meat and animal products constitute probably 75% of my consumption and I would never have it any other way.
On April 12 2011 04:21 Serthius wrote: I never understood why vegan food has to be meat dishes where you substitute the meat for a terrible vegan alternative, Like "veggie burgers" or "veggie chicken nuggets". Yuck. There's so much delicious proper vegan food to be had!
I'm not a vegetarian, but about half of the food I make for myself is vegetarian, mostly just because I like it.
I agree, real food is better than pseudo meats.
But it's very convienient to have them as quick meals and there are few that taste good, based on personal opinion.
On April 12 2011 04:07 DNB wrote: Fish is meat. I don't know any reasons why it would not be considered meat...
I think the reasoning is that (most) fish live a free and happy life out in the oceans, whereas (most) other animals we eat live crappy lives in cages.
Of course, with that reasoning vegetarians who eat fish should be okay with eating game meat as well. Bambi effect, maybe.
On April 12 2011 03:59 Therapy wrote: i was raised vegetarian but quit when I was like 12. I didn't really care about the morals involved and was just sick of being limited when I hung out with friends or went out to eat etc. I'm 21 now and I went back to being vegetarian like 2 years ago. Mostly due to my love of animals but also in small part to diet. I'm considering vegan but I'm not sure I'm ready to deal with all the inconveniences involved. Plus as a college student I basically live off pizza and coffee lol.
Also those veggie wings are pretty blah. textured veggie protein breaded and flavored with shitty mild sauce. not even close to the real thing and not particularly tasty... I live in buffalo and wings are probably the thing I miss the most lol.
I was apprehensive at first about switching to vegan, but my friend convinced me to try it and i never turned back. You can make pizza with cheese substitute and have your coffee with soy milk
The main inconvienience is not being able to eat much fast food because they often have vegetarian options, but rarely vegan.
So i suggest trying it out for a couple of months and seeing how you go.
I already usually drink coffee with soy milk, I actually prefer the taste. Pizza though, the appeal is its quick, easy, cheap and delicious. I've had vegan pizza a few times and its not bad. It definitely lacks the greasy deliciousness though, plus it's pricey and hard to find. Cooking it at home is always an option but if I'm home I'm usually eating something healthier anyways.
On April 12 2011 04:20 Yizuo wrote: I feel you... It's super annoying when people find out you are vegetarian and try to argue with you about it. Or even worse, think they have this shit figured out and try to illuminate you why it's dumb...
This goes often both ways I guess. I know lots of vegans with this holier than thou-attitude when they start bashing and arguing against someone who wants to eat a diet with some meat in it.
I've noticed a very strong correlation between how long someone has been vegan / vegetarian and how chill they are about it. Recent converts are jackasses and make long time vegetarians look bad. That's why I tend to hate them just as much (if not more) than the non-vegetarians they hassle.
On April 12 2011 04:21 Serthius wrote: I never understood why vegan food has to be meat dishes where you substitute the meat for a terrible vegan alternative, Like "veggie burgers" or "veggie chicken nuggets". Yuck. There's so much delicious proper vegan food to be had!
I'm not a vegetarian, but about half of the food I make for myself is vegetarian, mostly just because I like it.
I agree, real food is better than pseudo meats.
But it's very convienient to have them as quick meals and there are few that taste good, based on personal opinion.
True, convenience is a valid reason. I'm only a part time vegetarian, so I don't have that problem.
On April 12 2011 04:20 Yizuo wrote: I feel you... It's super annoying when people find out you are vegetarian and try to argue with you about it. Or even worse, think they have this shit figured out and try to illuminate you why it's dumb...
This goes often both ways I guess. I know lots of vegans with this holier than thou-attitude when they start bashing and arguing against someone who wants to eat a diet with some meat in it.
I'm happy to see any rejection of meat.
But pescetarian that claim to be vegetarians can be irritating, it's like when someone says "i'm in silver league, but i'm good enough to be gold." Just don't claim to be something you're not.
I am not vegetarian or vegan, per se, but I refuse to eat any animal foods that aren't completely organic, so that should count somewhat.
I hate the taste of burgers, beef, fish, squid, shrimp, and turkey and eggs, but I will eat eggs if they are an ingredient to a larger dish. The Idea of Veal is disgusting. So I literally only eat chicken and elk and pork. The elk is game-meat, so the elk live great, long lives before they're shot and skinned by my uncle. Chicken is always organic. The pork is always organic.
My matra is that we should all support organic food, but I don't think that complete restriction is the answer (although that's fine too)
On April 12 2011 04:07 DNB wrote: Fish is meat. I don't know any reasons why it would not be considered meat...
I think the reasoning is that (most) fish live a free and happy life out in the oceans, whereas (most) other animals we eat live crappy lives in cages.
Of course, with that reasoning vegetarians who eat fish should be okay with eating game meat as well. Bambi effect, maybe.
There is also the link between empathy and suspected conciousness (Sam Harris ftw). I guess many people feel that fish (whether it be true or not) are exposed to a lot smaller range of experiece in terms of happiness and suffering. Same way you feel more compassion for a cat than a rock (carried to it's extreme).
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
Those who are saying they tried going vegetarian and experienced energy loss I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit. It's probably just placebo/you making an excuse to go back to eating food that you find tasty. Rice, beans, tofu, and meat substitutes all provide plenty of calories and protein. Being vegetarian doesn't mean you only eat salads all day :S
On April 12 2011 04:20 Yizuo wrote: I feel you... It's super annoying when people find out you are vegetarian and try to argue with you about it. Or even worse, think they have this shit figured out and try to illuminate you why it's dumb...
This goes often both ways I guess. I know lots of vegans with this holier than thou-attitude when they start bashing and arguing against someone who wants to eat a diet with some meat in it.
Eggs are great for protein, but can be replaced by beans, tofu, chickpeas, spinach, peas, broccoli etc.
Seriously? Do you even have an idea how much you would have to eat those to get even a slightly significant amount of protein?
Beans and tofu are fine, but don't offer the full amino-profile as eggs do.
If it's not a problem, eat your eggs bro.
Tofu and soy-protein in general offers a pretty damn good amino profile, actually. There's 8 essential amino acids (there are 20, but your body can synthesize the other 12) Soybeans offers all of them, along with red meat and ... a few other things. Also Black beans for life <3
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I could only see myself "converting" to vegetarian, if the only meat I got was from burgers and hotdogs. There is a lot of shitty meat out there but if you stay away from that nothing can beat a quality steak.
On April 12 2011 04:33 Therapy wrote: Those who are saying they tried going vegetarian and experienced energy loss I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit. It's probably just placebo/you making an excuse to go back to eating food that you find tasty. Rice, beans, tofu, and meat substitutes all provide plenty of calories and protein. Being vegetarian doesn't mean you only eat salads all day :S
Not completely bullshit. Vegetarian foods tend to have less energy, but that just means you have to eat more. You also have to think about what you eat.
On April 12 2011 04:37 DaCruise wrote: I could only see myself "converting" to vegetarian, if the only meat I got was from burgers and hotdogs. There is a lot of shitty meat out there but if you stay away from that nothing can beat a quality steak.
You raise a good point, processed meat is grosser, but some people find all meats, even the most quality, very disgusting.
Aha! I've been vegetarian for a couple years now and to be honest I like it quite a bit. I used to be an intense carnivore, so when people say they couldn't imagine not eating meat and denounce vegetarianism based on that alone I have a hard time taking them seriously. Before, if I went to any kind of buffet there was no chance I'd be going anywhere near anything green..
A couple months ago I was at a sports bar with friends and I drunkenly ate some of their nachos, and accidentally had a tiny morsel of chicken. To be honest, it tasted terrible to me and the texture was really weird for me.. I've gone too far. Goodbye meat, forever lol.
I don't miss it at all. If you know how to cook anything at all, being vegetarian is really quite easy. Some of my favourites:
Thai Red or Green Curry- Preferably, go to a local Asian food store to get the curry paste, it's a looooot better than the weak, North-Americanized version you'll buy in a grocery store. Whisk it in to 2 cans of coconut milk with a couple tablespoons each of brown sugar and soy sauce, then add any vegetables and tofu to your liking (I usually do red peppers, green beans, mushrooms, bamboo shoots and carrots)
Pad Thai- 3 Tbsp tamarind paste (again, go to the Asian food store :p) 3 Tbsp ketchup 2 Tbsp brown sugar 2 Tbsp soy sauce
Stiry-fry half a block of tofu with a few chopped cloves of garlic, then add some sliced carrots and broccoli florets. Soak rice noodles in hot water, and add the noodles when they're done plus the sauce. Put in about a cup of beansprouts, and some chopped green onions. Add egg if you want at the end, then eat with chopped peanuts and crushed red chili flakes =D
Teriyaki Tofu and Vegetables- Just stiry fry some tofu, mushrooms, broccoli and sliced (or shredded) carrots, plus a healthy amount of beansprouts. Put on rice, pour on some teriyaki sauce and add some spicy chili sauce. So good..
And, if you're feeling a little lazy: Taco meat substitute! Just microwave and add your regular taco fixings.
Regular ground beef substitute. I use it mainly for making chili, but you could use it for pasta and "meat" sauce if you want
I usually just eat lettuce, cheese, tomato and mayo sandwiches but sometimes this is a nice change of pace. It's actually very close to being like real turkey slices, too.
On April 12 2011 04:33 Therapy wrote: Those who are saying they tried going vegetarian and experienced energy loss I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit. It's probably just placebo/you making an excuse to go back to eating food that you find tasty. Rice, beans, tofu, and meat substitutes all provide plenty of calories and protein. Being vegetarian doesn't mean you only eat salads all day :S
Not completely bullshit. Vegetarian foods tend to have less energy, but that just means you have to eat more. You also have to think about what you eat.
Well obviously certain foods have more calories than others. I think people are sane enough to realize, oh I'm still hungry I'll eat some more...
I eat a lot of vegetarian food because I feel like it. It seems to be a lot of work for the body to process meat. Basically I eat mostly veggie, then fish, then meat. I only eat meat when I feel a real crave for it. For example if I go out to lunch at work it is very annoying to eat a lot of meat because then my body will just process that the whole afternoon and I'll get really tired. If I eat veggie food by the time I get back to the office I have forgotten all about even eating and feel balanced and good.
I love indian veggie food, like spinach/lentil stuff with cardamom and coriander, thats what got me into this whole veggie thing
Growing up in Sweden with our meat culture I only ate dishes with fish and meat all my life, with the exception of pancakes lol But things are changing I guess!
On April 12 2011 04:40 relyt wrote: Another thing i would like to add is that my favorite person of all time Leonardo da Vinci was also a vegetarian.
So were other historical figures like Plato, Socrates, Pythagoras, Sir Isaac Newton, Thomas Edison, Mark Twain, Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, Albert Schweitzer, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Ford, William Wordsworth, George Bernard Shaw, Martin Luther.
On April 12 2011 04:33 Therapy wrote: Those who are saying they tried going vegetarian and experienced energy loss I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit. It's probably just placebo/you making an excuse to go back to eating food that you find tasty. Rice, beans, tofu, and meat substitutes all provide plenty of calories and protein. Being vegetarian doesn't mean you only eat salads all day :S
It does lead to energy loss if you don't get sufficient amount of minerals. Plus vegetarian diet requires you to eat more starches, so carb-sensitive people might experience additional lethargy.
I am not vegetarian, but I rarely eat meat. Usually fish. But grilled spicy pork is just awesome. But overall I prefer vegetarian food, it usually tastes better.
On April 12 2011 04:32 Ender985 wrote: So I have a question for you vegans/vegetarians, that I always wanted to ask but never had the opportunity:
What about mushrooms?
What about mushrooms? I'm pretty sure fungi are classified as vegetables. Also a great source of iron.
Not biology major here, but I'm pretty sure they are not vegetables. That is why I was asking, I don't know what the consensus is for the matter.
As a biology major, I can tell you "vegetable" isn't really used as any sort of identifiable class of organisms. Mushrooms are fungi, and they are often times edible. Who cares what we call them? :p
Personally I find mushrooms to add a really nice, earthy and hearty flavour that can be lacking in vegetarian dishes occasionally. Plus, you can make mushroom gravy, which is soooo good.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
Edit; not to mention it's pretty much bordering to flamebait, if you look at some of the responses in this thread. Almost makes me think it's just trolling.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
Sorry if i sounded pretentious, but i thought that was a really good quote and personally agreed with it.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
On April 12 2011 04:48 DNB wrote: What's the deal with vegetarians listing famous people who were also vegetarians? Looks like appeal to authority to me...
Simply a demonstration that vegetarians aren't just "whacko hippies" but that plenty of normal as well as bright and influential people are vegetarians as well. Uninformed people tend to ostracize vegetarians so I suppose these lists are meant as some sort of defense. *shrug*
On April 12 2011 04:48 Therapy wrote: You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
If the industry is causing the problem, why don't we simply change the way our meat is produced (organically and ethnically produced meats from local farmers)? Also, why not eat insects?
Hey I am noticing some turbulence here, wasn't that such a good peaceful start to a great thread we had on those first three and a half pages? I'd really like it if this thread was kept to discussion of the vegan (and vegetarian) lifestyle and not used to start arguments that lead nowhere.
Genghis Khan and Plato both rock in their own ways but that's not really the point of this thread is it?
On April 12 2011 04:48 DNB wrote: What's the deal with vegetarians listing famous people who were also vegetarians? Looks like appeal to authority to me...
Whats with your efforts to destructively criticise an otherwise constructive thread?
On April 12 2011 04:51 Puosu wrote: Hey I am noticing some turbulence here, wasn't that such a good peaceful start to a great thread we had on those first three and a half pages? I'd really like it if this thread was kept to discussion of the vegan (and vegetarian) lifestyle and not used to start arguments that lead nowhere.
Genghis Khan and Plato both rock in their own ways but that's not really the point of this thread is it?
Is this an invite to create a Genghis Khan vs. Plato battle royale thread?
On April 12 2011 04:48 DNB wrote: What's the deal with vegetarians listing famous people who were also vegetarians? Looks like appeal to authority to me...
Whats with your efforts to destructively criticise an otherwise constructive thread?
I just got an image that you tried to somehow validate your point more by simply listing influential vegetarian people. Sorry if that offended you.
On April 12 2011 04:48 Therapy wrote: You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
If the industry is causing the problem, why don't we simply change the way our meat is produced (organically and ethnically produced meats from local farmers)? Also, why not eat insects?
Yes, having meat produced in more sustainable ways would most definitely help the planet. Personally, I choose to just take it one step further and cut it out completely. Eating insects is also a very valid idea for getting protein. Obviously there are cultural influences at work, and I just say I don't need the insects for protein at all so long as you pay some attention to what you eat and work towards eating a healthy balanced diet
On April 12 2011 04:48 Therapy wrote: You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
If the industry is causing the problem, why don't we simply change the way our meat is produced (organically and ethnically produced meats from local farmers)? Also, why not eat insects?
Certainly that would be better. We should do the same with vegetables and fruits! Unfortunately, people are used to paying low prices for their meat and produce and big corporations are already in place marketing them at prices local farmers can't compete with. I don't foresee the human race going vegetarian any time soon and a shift towards local humane raising of animals would be fantastic. Also I'm not sure why you bring up insects lol.
On April 12 2011 04:41 Freak705 wrote: Aha! I've been vegetarian for a couple years now and to be honest I like it quite a bit. I used to be an intense carnivore, so when people say they couldn't imagine not eating meat and denounce vegetarianism based on that alone I have a hard time taking them seriously. Before, if I went to any kind of buffet there was no chance I'd be going anywhere near anything green..
A couple months ago I was at a sports bar with friends and I drunkenly ate some of their nachos, and accidentally had a tiny morsel of chicken. To be honest, it tasted terrible to me and the texture was really weird for me.. I've gone too far. Goodbye meat, forever lol.
I don't miss it at all. If you know how to cook anything at all, being vegetarian is really quite easy. Some of my favourites:
Thai Red or Green Curry- Preferably, go to a local Asian food store to get the curry paste, it's a looooot better than the weak, North-Americanized version you'll buy in a grocery store. Whisk it in to 2 cans of coconut milk with a couple tablespoons each of brown sugar and soy sauce, then add any vegetables and tofu to your liking (I usually do red peppers, green beans, mushrooms, bamboo shoots and carrots)
Pad Thai- 3 Tbsp tamarind paste (again, go to the Asian food store :p) 3 Tbsp ketchup 2 Tbsp brown sugar 2 Tbsp soy sauce
Stiry-fry half a block of tofu with a few chopped cloves of garlic, then add some sliced carrots and broccoli florets. Soak rice noodles in hot water, and add the noodles when they're done plus the sauce. Put in about a cup of beansprouts, and some chopped green onions. Add egg if you want at the end, then eat with chopped peanuts and crushed red chili flakes =D
Teriyaki Tofu and Vegetables- Just stiry fry some tofu, mushrooms, broccoli and sliced (or shredded) carrots, plus a healthy amount of beansprouts. Put on rice, pour on some teriyaki sauce and add some spicy chili sauce. So good..
And, if you're feeling a little lazy: Taco meat substitute! Just microwave and add your regular taco fixings.
Regular ground beef substitute. I use it mainly for making chili, but you could use it for pasta and "meat" sauce if you want
I usually just eat lettuce, cheese, tomato and mayo sandwiches but sometimes this is a nice change of pace. It's actually very close to being like real turkey slices, too.
On April 12 2011 04:41 Freak705 wrote: Aha! I've been vegetarian for a couple years now and to be honest I like it quite a bit. I used to be an intense carnivore, so when people say they couldn't imagine not eating meat and denounce vegetarianism based on that alone I have a hard time taking them seriously. Before, if I went to any kind of buffet there was no chance I'd be going anywhere near anything green..
A couple months ago I was at a sports bar with friends and I drunkenly ate some of their nachos, and accidentally had a tiny morsel of chicken. To be honest, it tasted terrible to me and the texture was really weird for me.. I've gone too far. Goodbye meat, forever lol.
I don't miss it at all. If you know how to cook anything at all, being vegetarian is really quite easy. Some of my favourites:
Thai Red or Green Curry- Preferably, go to a local Asian food store to get the curry paste, it's a looooot better than the weak, North-Americanized version you'll buy in a grocery store. Whisk it in to 2 cans of coconut milk with a couple tablespoons each of brown sugar and soy sauce, then add any vegetables and tofu to your liking (I usually do red peppers, green beans, mushrooms, bamboo shoots and carrots)
Pad Thai- 3 Tbsp tamarind paste (again, go to the Asian food store :p) 3 Tbsp ketchup 2 Tbsp brown sugar 2 Tbsp soy sauce
Stiry-fry half a block of tofu with a few chopped cloves of garlic, then add some sliced carrots and broccoli florets. Soak rice noodles in hot water, and add the noodles when they're done plus the sauce. Put in about a cup of beansprouts, and some chopped green onions. Add egg if you want at the end, then eat with chopped peanuts and crushed red chili flakes =D
Teriyaki Tofu and Vegetables- Just stiry fry some tofu, mushrooms, broccoli and sliced (or shredded) carrots, plus a healthy amount of beansprouts. Put on rice, pour on some teriyaki sauce and add some spicy chili sauce. So good..
And, if you're feeling a little lazy: Taco meat substitute! Just microwave and add your regular taco fixings.
Regular ground beef substitute. I use it mainly for making chili, but you could use it for pasta and "meat" sauce if you want
I usually just eat lettuce, cheese, tomato and mayo sandwiches but sometimes this is a nice change of pace. It's actually very close to being like real turkey slices, too.
Best. Soy chicken. Ever... *drools*
Holy shit that teriyaki looks good.
Haha, thanks =D We have a teriyaki place on campus here, and I was convinced I could do a better job. So I did.. As a lazy university student I tend to cook in batches and eat the same dinner for 3-4 days! Luckily things usually turn out good enough that I enjoy eating the same dinner for that long instead of getting bored of it, haha
On April 12 2011 04:48 Therapy wrote: You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
If the industry is causing the problem, why don't we simply change the way our meat is produced (organically and ethnically produced meats from local farmers)? Also, why not eat insects?
Certainly that would be better. We should do the same with vegetables and fruits! Unfortunately, people are used to paying low prices for their meat and produce and big corporations are already in place marketing them at prices local farmers can't compete with. I don't foresee the human race going vegetarian any time soon and a shift towards local humane raising of animals would be fantastic. Also I'm not sure why you bring up insects lol.
You're right in the sense that unless corporations don't change, the industry won't either (sad but true).
I brought up insects because they basically offer many times the protein and nutrients found in meat, and are also much more efficient to produce. The only obstacle is our culture where we are disgusted by eating insects. Personally I would be ready to give up meat and eat insects instead if it was the case.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
Sorry if i sounded pretentious, but i thought that was a really good quote and personally agreed with it.
lol you did not sound pretentious at all, nice quote from such a great man.
On April 12 2011 05:00 Golgotha wrote: Vegetarian...aka the pre-historic word for the village idiot who sucked at hunting. I'm joking just poking fun ^^
On April 12 2011 04:41 Freak705 wrote: Aha! I've been vegetarian for a couple years now and to be honest I like it quite a bit. I used to be an intense carnivore, so when people say they couldn't imagine not eating meat and denounce vegetarianism based on that alone I have a hard time taking them seriously. Before, if I went to any kind of buffet there was no chance I'd be going anywhere near anything green..
A couple months ago I was at a sports bar with friends and I drunkenly ate some of their nachos, and accidentally had a tiny morsel of chicken. To be honest, it tasted terrible to me and the texture was really weird for me.. I've gone too far. Goodbye meat, forever lol.
I don't miss it at all. If you know how to cook anything at all, being vegetarian is really quite easy. Some of my favourites:
Thai Red or Green Curry- Preferably, go to a local Asian food store to get the curry paste, it's a looooot better than the weak, North-Americanized version you'll buy in a grocery store. Whisk it in to 2 cans of coconut milk with a couple tablespoons each of brown sugar and soy sauce, then add any vegetables and tofu to your liking (I usually do red peppers, green beans, mushrooms, bamboo shoots and carrots)
Pad Thai- 3 Tbsp tamarind paste (again, go to the Asian food store :p) 3 Tbsp ketchup 2 Tbsp brown sugar 2 Tbsp soy sauce
Stiry-fry half a block of tofu with a few chopped cloves of garlic, then add some sliced carrots and broccoli florets. Soak rice noodles in hot water, and add the noodles when they're done plus the sauce. Put in about a cup of beansprouts, and some chopped green onions. Add egg if you want at the end, then eat with chopped peanuts and crushed red chili flakes =D
Teriyaki Tofu and Vegetables- Just stiry fry some tofu, mushrooms, broccoli and sliced (or shredded) carrots, plus a healthy amount of beansprouts. Put on rice, pour on some teriyaki sauce and add some spicy chili sauce. So good..
And, if you're feeling a little lazy: Taco meat substitute! Just microwave and add your regular taco fixings.
Regular ground beef substitute. I use it mainly for making chili, but you could use it for pasta and "meat" sauce if you want
I usually just eat lettuce, cheese, tomato and mayo sandwiches but sometimes this is a nice change of pace. It's actually very close to being like real turkey slices, too.
Best. Soy chicken. Ever... *drools*
Holy shit that teriyaki looks good.
Haha, thanks =D We have a teriyaki place on campus here, and I was convinced I could do a better job. So I did.. As a lazy university student I tend to cook in batches and eat the same dinner for 3-4 days! Luckily things usually turn out good enough that I enjoy eating the same dinner for that long instead of getting bored of it, haha
I do that too. Last night i cooked enough vegan curry for 8 people. So i can eat it for lunch/dinner over the next week.
My question - Is meat found in bins from dumpster diving, vegan? No animals will suffer from the action of eating meat which is to be destroyed, so surely it is fine to eat.
On April 12 2011 04:59 Charger wrote: I have a serious question. Why are insects, plants, fish, eggs, etc ok to eat but not chicken or steak?
You didn't put much effort into your question but I'll answer anyways! People are vegetarian/vegan for many different reasons, among them are personal morals (empathy for animals, etc), environmental (the way we farm and raise animals is terrible for the environment and not sustainable), and even just personal tastes and preferences. Personally I take issue with how the meat industry raises animals. If they were raised in a more humane manner I still probably wouldn't eat meat (I'm not saying its rational but I love animals and feel bad eating them.) but I wouldn't care as much about the issue.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
Your rhetorics are mindblowing, sir. I'll do you a favor and ignore the first statement.
Environmental causes for being vegetarian is just a fine a reason as emotional reasons, but it doesn't impact the meat market in any way.
Sorry for causing a stir, Puosu, but when you open a thread about veganism in that manner, you've already set the course down a bad path. People will 'choose to take offense' a lot more easily then.
My forecast speaks of cloudy skies and high chance of trolling.
On April 12 2011 05:02 Reach_UK wrote: My question - Is meat found in bins from dumpster diving, vegan? No animals will suffer from the action of eating meat which is to be destroyed, so surely it is fine to eat.
No it's not vegan. Freegans are vegans who don't pay for food. But omnivore's who don't pay for food aren't vegan.
I know some vegans that wear leather because it was a present/had it before they turned vegan and ate mayonnaise on a veggie burger because they don't like wasting food but i wouldn't consider someone vegan if they went as far as eating meat.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
Your rhetorics are mindblowing, sir. I'll do you a favor and ignore the first statement.
Environmental causes for being vegetarian is just a fine a reason as emotional reasons, but it doesn't impact the meat market in any way.
Sorry for causing a stir, Puosu, but when you open a thread about veganism in that manner, you've already set the course down a bad path. People will 'choose to take offense' a lot more easily then.
My forecast speaks of cloudy skies and high chance of trolling.
I don't see how it's just rhetoric. The carbon footprint of the meat industry is ridiculous, not to mention how much land is used that could be put to better purposes. And eating meat that's full of antibiotics and growth hormones is pretty fucking terrible for you.
Less Debate, more recipes....I came to this thread for recipes..
That said, I personally am not veg nor will I ever be. I have tried it and a someone who lifts weights, the diet simply is a bad idea. I have never been sicker in my life. However if it works for you, I support it.
That said. I realized recently that I eat entirely too much meat. I am good at cooking meat and terrible at cooking vegetables, which is largely the reason because I do enjoy vegetables.
So some recipes that I have begun implementing as a means to cut down the amount of meat I eat from 3+ meals a day to a small 8oz portion once per day or every other day. I will be the first to admit that we as Americans eat "WAY TOO MUCH MEAT". I have been one of the worst offenders of this for years.
Stir fried Tofu and Scallions 1lb. extra firm organic tofu 2 T grape seed oil 2 tsp. finely minced garlic 2 tsp. finely grated ginger root 1 cup scallions, sliced into 2 inch pieces (This is about 1 bunch green onions. Keep white parts separate from green parts. I used less than this, but only because I didn't have enough.) 3 T chicken stock or vegetable stock 3tsp Soy (Kikoman) 1 tsp. black sesame seeds (optional)
I cook quite a bit of bok choy as well can't remember the exact recipe off the top of my head though. It is fantastic stuff however.
Broccoli Salad (Not veg per se, but you can leave out the bacon and make it so. I can't claim it will taste as good, but to be fair this is amazing stuff and might well be without the bacon).
1 head broccoli 6 to 8 slices cooked bacon, crumbled (optional?) 1/2 cup chopped red onion 8 ounces sharp Cheddar, shredded 1 cup mayonnaise 2 tablespoons white vinegar 1/4 cup sugar
Pretty easy to make - Chop of the broccoli into bite sized pieces, place into bowl. Chop onion, place in same bowl. shred cheese, also place in bowl.
Mix the mayo, vinegar, sugar in a bowl and mix throughly.
Mix it all together and either serve or chill and serve. I eat the hell out of this stuff.
On April 12 2011 04:59 Charger wrote: I have a serious question. Why are insects, plants, fish, eggs, etc ok to eat but not chicken or steak?
As a concerned global citizen, I've come to embrace the idea that food has a resource cost. In terms of sustainability, some foods are better than others. Some quick facts:
-In moving up the tropic levels, only a fraction (~10%) of carbon is efficiently integrated (ie there is a 90% loss of carbon in moving from plants to animals). -It roughly takes 7kg of grain to produce 1kg of beef. -It takes about 4kg of grain to produce 1kg of chicken. -Of all industry, the meat industry uses the most fresh water. -Raising animals takes space. In many places around the world, forested area is cut down to provide room for grazing land that could be better used for growing more crops that can be fed directly to people. The land for grazing areas often deteriorates quickly, and loss of plant biomass in this manner is a huge contributor to deforestation -For many fishing practices, deep-sea trawling disturbs ocean ecosystems and for many fish stocks we are overfishing. We need to reduce fishing to ensure the stocks remain viable. ----> Personally I don't find fish to be vegetarian at all. A fish is clearly an animal..
Of course, there are resource costs to eggs as well. Personally I have some food allergies that constrict my diet a little, so I still eat eggs occasionally for a bit of a protein boost. Otherwise I would seriously consider not eating eggs or dairy at all.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
Edit; not to mention it's pretty much bordering to flamebait, if you look at some of the responses in this thread. Almost makes me think it's just trolling.
An odd response from someone who only eats mullets!
My stance is that there are plenty of annoying people on both sides of the fence. Do what makes you happy, I'll do the same, don't push your beliefs onto me.
Personally I've done the veggie thing for a few months, it was okay, but I've switched back. Was a good experience, glad I did it, but I prefer a wider diet.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
Your rhetorics are mindblowing, sir. I'll do you a favor and ignore the first statement.
Environmental causes for being vegetarian is just a fine a reason as emotional reasons, but it doesn't impact the meat market in any way.
Sorry for causing a stir, Puosu, but when you open a thread about veganism in that manner, you've already set the course down a bad path. People will 'choose to take offense' a lot more easily then.
My forecast speaks of cloudy skies and high chance of trolling.
On April 12 2011 05:09 Maxwell3 wrote: Although I love to pound down steaks and love the feeling of delicious meat, can anyone recommend me some good vegetarian food?
Next time you go to a Kebab place, get a felafel with hommous instead of meat with grease
On April 12 2011 05:09 Maxwell3 wrote: Although I love to pound down steaks and love the feeling of delicious meat, can anyone recommend me some good vegetarian food?
Next time you go to a Kebab place, get a felafel with hommous instead of meat with grease
I love felafel and hummus but I always get them at the restaurant/buy them from the store. Have you had any success making your own?
On April 12 2011 04:59 Charger wrote: I have a serious question. Why are insects, plants, fish, eggs, etc ok to eat but not chicken or steak?
You didn't put much effort into your question but I'll answer anyways! People are vegetarian/vegan for many different reasons, among them are personal morals (empathy for animals, etc), environmental (the way we farm and raise animals is terrible for the environment and not sustainable), and even just personal tastes and preferences. Personally I take issue with how the meat industry raises animals. If they were raised in a more humane manner I still probably wouldn't eat meat (I'm not saying its rational but I love animals and feel bad eating them.) but I wouldn't care as much about the issue.
So the issue for you at least is on a moral level. You can't in good conscience eat meat because you love animals and because of the way the animals are raised/killed. I understand and that makes total sense, that is what I think of when I hear vegetarian. But then I hear that people who share your beliefs eat other animals such as fish or perhaps eat eggs so it seems weird from an outsiders perspective (someone who couldn't care less what people eat or don't eat). I still don't understand why eating a fish that was caught and killed is ok but, for example, a deer that was shot and killed is wrong.
I think that's the issue I have with it. I am not trying to start some sort of war about this (and the mod has already warned us) and like I said, I really couldn't care less about what anyone eats or doesn't eat. These are just legitimate questions I have and who better to ask them to!
On April 12 2011 05:09 Maxwell3 wrote: Although I love to pound down steaks and love the feeling of delicious meat, can anyone recommend me some good vegetarian food?
Next time you go to a Kebab place, get a felafel with hommous instead of meat with grease
I love felafel and hummus but I always get them at the restaurant/buy them from the store. Have you had any success making your own?
I haven't. But i'm a cooking nooby and if i tried i would probably drown in chick peas.
On April 12 2011 05:09 Maxwell3 wrote: Although I love to pound down steaks and love the feeling of delicious meat, can anyone recommend me some good vegetarian food?
Next time you go to a Kebab place, get a felafel with hommous instead of meat with grease
I love felafel and hummus but I always get them at the restaurant/buy them from the store. Have you had any success making your own?
I haven't. But i'm a cooking nooby and if i tried i would probably drown in chick peas.
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
I've always found it weird that eggs are considered vegetarian. In my mind, it's nearly the same thing as meat.
Egg is a byproduct from an animal. It does not require the animal to be killed for it. Fish - yeah it has to be killed. I remember years ago someone saying "lol wut so eggs come from virgin births??" and I told him to research it for a minute and he would see how eggs are produced. He still thought it made no sense. Dont really talk to him anymore.
I've been a vegetarian for nearly 11 years now. I never was that much into meat, except tuna fish melts and meatball subs. I completely agree a lot of pre-made vegetarian/vegan food is terribly bland. I'll still eat it sometimes out of convenience but I'm not happy with it. I can make some wicked tasty vegan brownies and cookies, and I like a lot of vegetarian meals, though they require more time and effort.
OP: God I forgot how much I miss falafel! Soooo gooood! Especially with just the right sauce... I think I liked it with some mixture of tahini sauce?
Did you know vegan diets lead to depression, and most vegetarian diets make you weak? Grains are actually kinda terrible for you... they are like gasoline, sure if your going to run a marathon get some carbs, but if your a starcraft 2 player you need mostly vegetables and meat.
I'd have a lot more respect for vegans if they didnt eat meat substitutes. By eating meat substitutes your saying you like meat you just think its immoral to eat it. Without predators there would be no need for evolution past the point of being a blob...
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
You're the one who's choosing to take offense. The way we've industrialized the meat industry IS bad for for the planet AND bad for us.
The way that we have industrialized the agricultural business (monoculture, mass fertilizing to boost crop yields, etc.) is also very bad for the planet in general. The effect is magnified in meat since it is a less efficient means of acquiring sustenance than eating plants directly, but vegetables are not particularly great environmentally either unless they are sustainably farmed...
Personally, I am generally an omnivore, but I have spent periods of time as both a lacto-ovo vegetarian and more stict milk-only vegetarian (no eggs no fish) as experiments. The milk only thing I found very frustrating, although thats largely because the grocery stores in the area were pretty lacking when it came to ingredients for vegetarian cooking (specifically certain spices). However, I found that spiced black beans (generally heavily cumin and garlic based spice mixes) were quite good though, either in cornflour-based tacos or on rice (rice generally flavoured with cardamom and turmeric).
On April 12 2011 04:59 Charger wrote: I have a serious question. Why are insects, plants, fish, eggs, etc ok to eat but not chicken or steak?
You didn't put much effort into your question but I'll answer anyways! People are vegetarian/vegan for many different reasons, among them are personal morals (empathy for animals, etc), environmental (the way we farm and raise animals is terrible for the environment and not sustainable), and even just personal tastes and preferences. Personally I take issue with how the meat industry raises animals. If they were raised in a more humane manner I still probably wouldn't eat meat (I'm not saying its rational but I love animals and feel bad eating them.) but I wouldn't care as much about the issue.
So the issue for you at least is on a moral level. You can't in good conscience eat meat because you love animals and because of the way the animals are raised/killed. I understand and that makes total sense, that is what I think of when I hear vegetarian. But then I hear that people who share your beliefs eat other animals such as fish or perhaps eat eggs so it seems weird from an outsiders perspective (someone who couldn't care less what people eat or don't eat). I still don't understand why eating a fish that was caught and killed is ok but, for example, a deer that was shot and killed is wrong.
I think that's the issue I have with it. I am not trying to start some sort of war about this (and the mod has already warned us) and like I said, I really couldn't care less about what anyone eats or doesn't eat. These are just legitimate questions I have and who better to ask them to!
Most vegetarians don't eat fish, those who do aren't real vegetarians. Fish can be healthy and humane if they're caught in the wild and not over-fished but fish farms are pretty nasty with all the antibiotics they pump in the water. As for eggs I'm personally grossed out by them and don't eat them straight up but I don't put in the effort to avoid them in foods. I don't really put them in the same category as fish though, they're merely the potential for life and not actual animals imo.
On April 12 2011 04:59 Charger wrote: I have a serious question. Why are insects, plants, fish, eggs, etc ok to eat but not chicken or steak?
You didn't put much effort into your question but I'll answer anyways! People are vegetarian/vegan for many different reasons, among them are personal morals (empathy for animals, etc), environmental (the way we farm and raise animals is terrible for the environment and not sustainable), and even just personal tastes and preferences. Personally I take issue with how the meat industry raises animals. If they were raised in a more humane manner I still probably wouldn't eat meat (I'm not saying its rational but I love animals and feel bad eating them.) but I wouldn't care as much about the issue.
So the issue for you at least is on a moral level. You can't in good conscience eat meat because you love animals and because of the way the animals are raised/killed. I understand and that makes total sense, that is what I think of when I hear vegetarian. But then I hear that people who share your beliefs eat other animals such as fish or perhaps eat eggs so it seems weird from an outsiders perspective (someone who couldn't care less what people eat or don't eat). I still don't understand why eating a fish that was caught and killed is ok but, for example, a deer that was shot and killed is wrong.
I think that's the issue I have with it. I am not trying to start some sort of war about this (and the mod has already warned us) and like I said, I really couldn't care less about what anyone eats or doesn't eat. These are just legitimate questions I have and who better to ask them to!
Most vegetarians don't eat fish, those who do aren't real vegetarians. Fish can be healthy and humane if they're caught in the wild and not over-fished but fish farms are pretty nasty with all the antibiotics they pump in the water. As for eggs I'm personally grossed out by them and don't eat them straight up but I don't put in the effort to avoid them in foods. I don't really put them in the same category as fish though, they're merely the potential for life and not actual animals imo.
Ok thank you. I am glad I popped into this thread to learn a bit about this lifestyle.
On April 12 2011 05:16 Jyxz wrote: Did you know vegan diets lead to depression, and most vegetarian diets make you weak? Grains are actually kinda terrible for you... they are like gasoline, sure if your going to run a marathon get some carbs, but if your a starcraft 2 player you need mostly vegetables and meat.
I'd have a lot more respect for vegans if they didnt eat meat substitutes. By eating meat substitutes your saying you like meat you just think its immoral to eat it. Without predators there would be no need for evolution past the point of being a blob...
Well, I as a vegetarian went to the gym all last summer and gained some considerable muscle mass so I'd say your first point there is invalid. It's harder to build muscle on a lower protein diet, but not impossible. Most of your calories should come from carbs, there's a reason why grains are at the bottom of the food pyramid.
To your second point: Yes, meat does taste good. There are few things I would say taste better than bacon. And yes, I believe eating it is immoral. So what? If I eat substitutes that are more environmentally friendly, and still get some enjoyment from their similarity to meat products, what's so bad about that? It sounds like a win-win to me.
My mother was a vegetarian for quite a while in the 80s; then she met my dad, who's basically as big a carnivore as they come. I was thus raised in a meat-loving home, and I still love meat. I doubt I could ever give it up completely, but I recent times I have cut down on meat consumption to 2-3 times a week. This has mostly been for economic reasons, as meat is just so damn expensive.
I have the greatest respect for vegetarians and vegans. When me and my friends cook together we always cook vegan and it's great. I just have the occasional craving for a bacon+beef burger. With regards to health, by biology teacher told me that there are two types of people for whom meat is needed/recommended: 1) pregnant women (unless you really, REALLY plan your diet) and 2) athletes who train 25+ hours a week. Everyone else should be fine without.
As said I think meat will always be a part of my diet. Then again I said that about chocolate, candy and crisps and I haven't touched those for 3 weeks and don't miss 'em. In order not to be hypocritical I will be vegetarian for a week. Not vegan: I need my morning yogurt!
On April 12 2011 05:16 Jyxz wrote: Did you know vegan diets lead to depression, and most vegetarian diets make you weak? Grains are actually kinda terrible for you... they are like gasoline, sure if your going to run a marathon get some carbs, but if your a starcraft 2 player you need mostly vegetables and meat.
I'd have a lot more respect for vegans if they didnt eat meat substitutes. By eating meat substitutes your saying you like meat you just think its immoral to eat it. Without predators there would be no need for evolution past the point of being a blob...
Well, I as a vegetarian went to the gym all last summer and gained some considerable muscle mass so I'd say your first point there is invalid. It's harder to build muscle on a lower protein diet, but not impossible. Most of your calories should come from carbs, there's a reason why grains are at the bottom of the food pyramid.
To your second point: Yes, meat does taste good. There are few things I would say taste better than bacon. And yes, I believe eating it is immoral. So what? If I eat substitutes that are more environmentally friendly, and still get some enjoyment from their similarity to meat products, what's so bad about that? It sounds like a win-win to me.
Possible to do, yep it is. I would wager most are unaware of how to balance their diet to get all the nutrients they need to do this. I know I tried darn hard and was unable to do so.
That said, on your bacon comment. If god himself comes down and tells me eating bacon is immoral....I will probably eat it anyhow. :D
On April 12 2011 05:16 Jyxz wrote: Did you know vegan diets lead to depression, and most vegetarian diets make you weak? Grains are actually kinda terrible for you... they are like gasoline, sure if your going to run a marathon get some carbs, but if your a starcraft 2 player you need mostly vegetables and meat.
I'd have a lot more respect for vegans if they didnt eat meat substitutes. By eating meat substitutes your saying you like meat you just think its immoral to eat it. Without predators there would be no need for evolution past the point of being a blob...
Well, I as a vegetarian went to the gym all last summer and gained some considerable muscle mass so I'd say your first point there is invalid. It's harder to build muscle on a lower protein diet, but not impossible. Most of your calories should come from carbs, there's a reason why grains are at the bottom of the food pyramid.
To your second point: Yes, meat does taste good. There are few things I would say taste better than bacon. And yes, I believe eating it is immoral. So what? If I eat substitutes that are more environmentally friendly, and still get some enjoyment from their similarity to meat products, what's so bad about that? It sounds like a win-win to me.
What bothers me is the elitist attitude of vegans who look down on other vegans/vegetarians that eat meat substitutes. Yeah fresh unprocessed food is better for you and the environment but sometimes it's really nice to have the convenience of a frozen veggie patty or something. At least we're making a conscious effort to live more humanely, we're all on the same team here!
On April 12 2011 05:27 Freak705 wrote: Most of your calories should come from carbs, there's a reason why grains are at the bottom of the food pyramid.
I don't want to sound paranoid, but I dare to say that carbs are shown in the bottom of the food pyramid because they are cheap to produce. A proper pyramid would show vegetables at the bottom, nuts and legumes along with fish and meats in the middle and carbs at the top. You don't need to eat more than 1 serving of carbs a day if you're not an athlete.
On April 12 2011 04:59 Charger wrote: I have a serious question. Why are insects, plants, fish, eggs, etc ok to eat but not chicken or steak?
To my knowledge, its due to the widely-spread use of hormones and unnatural ways of "beefing up" (no pun intended) the products for maximizing profits. Meat products as we know them today sometimes come from facilities who treat the animals with cruelty, but more-likely the use of growth hormones; giving the cows/chickens flouridated water or giving them food that wasn't organically grown (with no poisoned fertilizers/water).
Personally I went vegetarian for a while until I found some organic farms and ranchs who make sure to give the animals proper care, and who refuse to use anything on their animals they wouldn't ingest themselves. By comparison, Fish/Insects/Plants are usually not treated in such a way, and there's not really any farms or ranches who would raise masses of fish with growth hormones (at least I've never heard of extensive "fish-ranches" anywhere). Eggs are the one exception I found that was linked to the chicken thing. There are however also eggs available with no hormones and that have been laid by chickens that were treated with great care and not fed bad things.
One problem I've had with the vegetarian/vegan diet is that its no longer a sound philosophy. While "organic" and "hormone treatment" can be avoided by reading labels, making sure of things like "during the animals' lives, were they fed anything that had poisons or additives? what about if they drank flouridated/poisoned water?" are far more difficult to track. However these conditions are in fact against vegetarian/vegan philosophy.
Another issue I have is the recent studies that show the side effects of soy products (soy protein, soy substitutes, excessive ingestion of tofu, etc). These are widely promoted in vegetarian/vegan diets because of their ability to substitute for protein deficiency that is a known risk of this change of diet. The effects can be pretty extreme and even life-threatening. A side-note some people ask is, "Well what about asian diets? Haven't they used soy for a staple of their diets for centuries?" The answer lies in HOW Asia prepares this soy. Fermentation of the soy products is usually how Asian dishes are prepared and this is thought to be a natural way of removing these harmful properties of the soy. Personally, I played it safe and killed off all soy in my diet other than the occassional use of soy sauce for flavor. Source Dangers of soy for men by webmd A longer article about the dangers of soy for men.
All in all though, there should be no differentiation between "vegetarian/vegan" and the "meat-eaters" in my opinion. Really there's only 2 kinds of dieting methods, conscious and not. Conscious eaters are aware of the poisons out there, aware of the corrupt methods used by the food industry as a whole (not discriminating meat from vegetable or grain, its all corrupt equally), and make their choices on what they eat and drink based on information that will allow them to avoid contaminants. Not conscious dieters eat anything and everything with no regard for the consequences of what they're eating coming to mind.
I'm going to bed now but when i wake up i want to see many a recipe, then i will edit them into the OP so they will all be in one convienient place for our eyes, among other things, to feast upon.
My question is for the people that feel for the animals... or just don't like meat because u feel its immoral ... or whatever ur belief is. Anyway back to the question. I do not have any vegetarian friends or vegan friends.. i have met a few and I have always wanted to ask this question. If I live in the mountains somewhere.. and i shoot my own deer and use EVERYTHING this deer has givin me .. I mean everything serves a purpose .. I mean what is so wrong about that? I understand there are some hunters out there that kill deer cut the antlers and leave the meat there.. but there are a lot of hunters where I come from Indiana and also West Virgina where we use EVERYTHING the deer brings us... we throw nothing away. What is so wrong about that? Now I can see some of the slaughter houses that treat there animals horrid.. like keeping them in small pens.. and so forth. But in Indiana where i used to live my uncle used to work in a family owned slaughter house.. we would kill the cow in the most humane way we can.. and as I said it was different 10 years ago they where "happier" cows if this is possible had TONS of room fed GREAT grain / food we would take care of the cows 100% it would be our first thing in the morning we did and the last thing before we went to bed. I guess it all comes down to are u against all the people that hunt / kill animals for food.. or just the major big corporations that do it in a "inhumane" way? I can see your point of views.. i am a very open minded person in that scenes .. but can u see my point of view also?
On April 12 2011 05:27 Freak705 wrote: Most of your calories should come from carbs, there's a reason why grains are at the bottom of the food pyramid.
I don't want to sound paranoid, but I dare to say that carbs are shown in the bottom of the food pyramid because they are cheap to produce. A proper pyramid would show vegetables at the bottom, nuts and legumes along with fish and meats in the middle and carbs at the top. You don't need to eat more than 1 serving of carbs a day if you're not an athlete.
You definitely need more than one serving of carbs a day unless you are not moving at all. Lots of vegetables is not always good as your body can't use all the nutrients which you liver needs to break down. If you don't need a lot of carbs you simple reduce them not replace them. A proper pyramid depends on your lifestyle/what your doing. I need the carbs, unless I eat carbs at least 3 times a day I feel sluggish. Carbohydrates are what gives you energy; eat healthy ones and you will not gain weight.
On April 12 2011 05:39 SeizeTheDay wrote: My question is for the people that feel for the animals... or just don't like meat because u feel its immoral ... or whatever ur belief is. Anyway back to the question. I do not have any vegetarian friends or vegan friends.. i have met a few and I have always wanted to ask this question. If I live in the mountains somewhere.. and i shoot my own deer and use EVERYTHING this deer has givin me .. I mean everything serves a purpose .. I mean what is so wrong about that? I understand there are some hunters out there that kill deer cut the antlers and leave the meat there.. but there are a lot of hunters where I come from Indiana and also West Virgina where we use EVERYTHING the deer brings us... we throw nothing away. What is so wrong about that? Now I can see some of the slaughter houses that treat there animals horrid.. like keeping them in small pens.. and so forth. But in Indiana where i used to live my uncle used to work in a family owned slaughter house.. we would kill the cow in the most humane way we can.. and as I said it was different 10 years ago they where "happier" cows if this is possible had TONS of room fed GREAT grain / food we would take care of the cows 100% it would be our first thing in the morning we did and the last thing before we went to bed. I guess it all comes down to are u against all the people that hunt / kill animals for food.. or just the major big corporations that do it in a "inhumane" way? I can see your point of views.. i am a very open minded person in that scenes .. but can u see my point of view also?
Certainly, I mean life consumes life its inevitable. "Someday you will die somehow and something's going to steal your carbon." (modest mouse). The problem is the vast majority of animals raised for consumption ARE raised inhumanely. Hunter's who hunt for food and not sport are a-okay in my book although I would never choose to do so myself. As a being with enough intelligence for rational thought I'm given a choice and I simply feel better choosing not to eat meat. If you see things differently I can't really argue with you but all I ask is that we make an effort to treat the animals better wherever possible.
On April 12 2011 05:27 Freak705 wrote: Most of your calories should come from carbs, there's a reason why grains are at the bottom of the food pyramid.
I don't want to sound paranoid, but I dare to say that carbs are shown in the bottom of the food pyramid because they are cheap to produce. A proper pyramid would show vegetables at the bottom, nuts and legumes along with fish and meats in the middle and carbs at the top. You don't need to eat more than 1 serving of carbs a day if you're not an athlete.
You definitely need more than one serving of carbs a day unless you are not moving at all. Lots of vegetables is not always good as your body can't use all the nutrients which you liver needs to break down. If you don't need a lot of carbs you simple reduce them not replace them. A proper pyramid depends on your lifestyle/what your doing. I need the carbs, unless I eat carbs at least 3 times a day I feel sluggish. Carbohydrates are what gives you energy; eat healthy ones and you will not gain weight.
Funny... You're the exact opposite of me. Even 1 serving of carbs makes me lethargic and tired, and any longer periods my bodyfat increases as well (even if I do fullbody compound lifts and cardio).
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
Good thing he stuck to math. Nothing has benefited human health, survival and evolution as much as the omnivorous diet. Sorry to perchance derail your thread, but that quote was provocative enough.
That was during prehistoric times, now we have the knowledge to sustain ourselves nutritionally. If we evolve to a vegetarian diet i assure we won't turn back into monkeys.
I'm sorry, but that holier than thou attitude won't help you in your quest to have humanity 'evolve' to a vegan diet. It's an emotional statement and you won't convince anyone with half a mind.
Edit; not to mention it's pretty much bordering to flamebait, if you look at some of the responses in this thread. Almost makes me think it's just trolling.
An odd response from someone who only eats mullets!
My stance is that there are plenty of annoying people on both sides of the fence. Do what makes you happy, I'll do the same, don't push your beliefs onto me.
Personally I've done the veggie thing for a few months, it was okay, but I've switched back. Was a good experience, glad I did it, but I prefer a wider diet.
On that note I'll bow out, I've said my part. I'll stick to my mullet diet thank you. I feel it makes me morally superior, and I'd prefer it if you all stayed vegans; more mullets for me.
Hes a professional cyclist (a physically very tough sport) and he got 3th place in Paris - Roubaix last week, which is one of the hardest and most brutal one-day courses in professional cycling. It is also nicknamed 'The Hell of the North'. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris–Roubaix
I have a question, I was under the impression that eat meat substitutes is actually worse for the environment(as these require a high amount of processing and energy thus to create). Is this true?Or am I being deluded by Anti-Vegans, I am curious about this. I am also wondering how many do not eat meat substitues as a result of this but survive on........other means?
On April 12 2011 04:20 Yizuo wrote: I feel you... It's super annoying when people find out you are vegetarian and try to argue with you about it. Or even worse, think they have this shit figured out and try to illuminate you why it's dumb...
This goes often both ways I guess. I know lots of vegans with this holier than thou-attitude when they start bashing and arguing against someone who wants to eat a diet with some meat in it.
I've noticed a very strong correlation between how long someone has been vegan / vegetarian and how chill they are about it. Recent converts are jackasses and make long time vegetarians look bad. That's why I tend to hate them just as much (if not more) than the non-vegetarians they hassle.
As a vegetarian for 11 years, I have never personally witnessed another vegetarian or vegan giving someone crap for what they eat. However, I have plenty of personal experience with vegetarians and vegans getting shit on just for saying they do not eat meat. And it's a big reason I only mention my diet out of necessity. I also omit directly saying it whenever possible to avoid stupid arguments, like if I'm with coworkers or friends or whatever and we're deciding where to get some food, if they don't offer anything vegetarian, I'll just offer a different suggestion and say I feel like eating there more. If pressed about why, I'll try to say I like the variety better, and pressed more I'll say I'm a vegetarian.
On April 12 2011 04:20 Yizuo wrote: I feel you... It's super annoying when people find out you are vegetarian and try to argue with you about it. Or even worse, think they have this shit figured out and try to illuminate you why it's dumb...
This goes often both ways I guess. I know lots of vegans with this holier than thou-attitude when they start bashing and arguing against someone who wants to eat a diet with some meat in it.
On April 12 2011 04:24 frogurt wrote:
Eggs are great for protein, but can be replaced by beans, tofu, chickpeas, spinach, peas, broccoli etc.
Seriously? Do you even have an idea how much you would have to eat those to get even a slightly significant amount of protein?
Beans and tofu are fine, but don't offer the full amino-profile as eggs do.
If it's not a problem, eat your eggs bro.
Tofu and soy-protein in general offers a pretty damn good amino profile, actually. There's 8 essential amino acids (there are 20, but your body can synthesize the other 12) Soybeans offers all of them, along with red meat and ... a few other things. Also Black beans for life <3
I really don't like when vegetarians suggest things like peas, broccoli, and cucumbers as good sources of protein. It makes vegetarians look terribly uninformed. Beans, and especially soy beans (for reasons mentioned above) are good sources of protein. It also is worth noting that the majority of people eating meat consume much more protein than required for a healthy living.
On April 12 2011 04:20 Yizuo wrote: I feel you... It's super annoying when people find out you are vegetarian and try to argue with you about it. Or even worse, think they have this shit figured out and try to illuminate you why it's dumb...
This goes often both ways I guess. I know lots of vegans with this holier than thou-attitude when they start bashing and arguing against someone who wants to eat a diet with some meat in it.
I've noticed a very strong correlation between how long someone has been vegan / vegetarian and how chill they are about it. Recent converts are jackasses and make long time vegetarians look bad. That's why I tend to hate them just as much (if not more) than the non-vegetarians they hassle.
As a vegetarian for 11 years, I have never personally witnessed another vegetarian or vegan giving someone crap for what they eat. However, I have plenty of personal experience with vegetarians and vegans getting shit on just for saying they do not eat meat. And it's a big reason I only mention my diet out of necessity. I also omit directly saying it whenever possible to avoid stupid arguments, like if I'm with coworkers or friends or whatever and we're deciding where to get some food, if they don't offer anything vegetarian, I'll just offer a different suggestion and say I feel like eating there more. If pressed about why, I'll try to say I like the variety better, and pressed more I'll say I'm a vegetarian.
Sorry for any confusion, but the bolded part is not what I meant I've encountered. The reason I tend to dislike most recent converts is because of how they treat non-vegetarians. They tend to be very preachy and condescending towards the non-vegetarians and I don't like that, even though I share their same diet. The reason why I added that I may hate them even more than the non-vegetarians hate them is because this holier-than-thou attitude reflects really poorly on me. It is not uncommon for me to be given some icy looks and unpleasant words from non-vegetarians upon finding out I am vegetarian. They tend to think more on their encounters with the preachy vegetarians and instantly get defensive, thinking I'm about to lecture them on their diet.
On April 12 2011 05:27 Freak705 wrote: Most of your calories should come from carbs, there's a reason why grains are at the bottom of the food pyramid.
I don't want to sound paranoid, but I dare to say that carbs are shown in the bottom of the food pyramid because they are cheap to produce. A proper pyramid would show vegetables at the bottom, nuts and legumes along with fish and meats in the middle and carbs at the top. You don't need to eat more than 1 serving of carbs a day if you're not an athlete.
The "food pyramid" is pretty ridiculous in the first place. About carbs... there isn't just one kind of carbohydrate. Think of complex carbohydrates rather than simple, such as wheat rather than white bread.
On April 12 2011 05:39 SeizeTheDay wrote: My question is for the people that feel for the animals... or just don't like meat because u feel its immoral ... or whatever ur belief is. Anyway back to the question. I do not have any vegetarian friends or vegan friends.. i have met a few and I have always wanted to ask this question. If I live in the mountains somewhere.. and i shoot my own deer and use EVERYTHING this deer has givin me .. I mean everything serves a purpose .. I mean what is so wrong about that? I understand there are some hunters out there that kill deer cut the antlers and leave the meat there.. but there are a lot of hunters where I come from Indiana and also West Virgina where we use EVERYTHING the deer brings us... we throw nothing away. What is so wrong about that? Now I can see some of the slaughter houses that treat there animals horrid.. like keeping them in small pens.. and so forth. But in Indiana where i used to live my uncle used to work in a family owned slaughter house.. we would kill the cow in the most humane way we can.. and as I said it was different 10 years ago they where "happier" cows if this is possible had TONS of room fed GREAT grain / food we would take care of the cows 100% it would be our first thing in the morning we did and the last thing before we went to bed. I guess it all comes down to are u against all the people that hunt / kill animals for food.. or just the major big corporations that do it in a "inhumane" way? I can see your point of views.. i am a very open minded person in that scenes .. but can u see my point of view also?
My major problem with eating meat is the source typically is from a factory-farming industry where the animals are treated horribly. I have no qualms with people who hunt for sustenance. I do think it's unethical to hunt for sport, though again, it's not as bad to me as causing suffering. Killing =/= suffering. (Though a point can be made that animals have families, so killing one can cause suffering for the animal's family.)
On April 12 2011 05:59 Kipsate wrote: I have a question, I was under the impression that eat meat substitutes is actually worse for the environment(as these require a high amount of processing and energy thus to create). Is this true?Or am I being deluded by Anti-Vegans, I am curious about this. I am also wondering how many do not eat meat substitues as a result of this but survive on........other means?
While it's true that these substitutes take more energy to make than simple, fresh food (any processed food does), by no means are substitutes like Tofurky worse than meat..
Take into consideration: -Energy put into farming animal feed stocks -Transportation of animal feed -Energy put into industrial meat producing facilities -Transportation of the meat itself
There's essentially an entire other level of processing for meat
I've tried to cook a few times with tofu, but its a huge hassle to do right. How do you prepare them?
I used to try squishing it between two plates with a heavy object on top. Some of the water would get out, but there still was a lot left in it. It became really messy trying to have any meal with tofu in it, and if the water isn't almost all gone, the meal doesn't turn out right.
I totally suck at cooking tofu and would love tips on making it work out well.
I wish I had recipes to share, but mine are realllly basic. Like making an egg and cheese bagel, or tacos with vegetarian refried beans and vegetables and salsa.
Here's a hot vegan tip (or tip for anyone who likes food for that matter) - make your own vegetable broth! It may sound like too much work, but it's so so worth it. With a good broth you can turn any vegetable into a delicious soup, and it will taste better than any soup you've ever had. I promise.
I make huge batches of it and store in the freezer. It's great for making quick dinners and lunches. Freeze vegetables you don't use, and when you have enough, make some broth.
Here's the recipe I use, but of these ingredients only the onion and garlic is really necessary, and the measurements are not exact in any way. Use any vegetables at hand, the principles will be the same.
Vegetable broth 6 carrots 3 onions 3 stalks celery salt & pepper some herbs (thyme, basil, parsley, whatever) 1 bay leaf 6 cloves of garlic 1 cup white wine
Crush the garlic cloves with the side of your knife, and roughly chop the vegetables. Add all ingredients except the wine to a large pot. Cover with water (I usually add a little more here). Bring everything to a boil and simmer for an hour. Remove from heat and add the wine. Let it cool for a while. If you have time you can leave it overnight. Then pour everything through a strainer and divide into smaller portions for freezing. Done!
Then, if you want to use this for a soup, you just can't go wrong. Pick a vegetable - cauliflower, asparagus, potatoes, jerusalem artichoke, beets - just about anything works. Chop into smaller bits, fry some onion, add whatever vegetable you picked, simmer until soft (add water if necessary), add some white wine and, if you want, some cream. Simmer for a few more minutes, then puree in a blender. Amazing soup - done. :D
You need to use firm or extra firm tofu for easiest results. Softer tofus work in stews or very careful technique, but for most stuff people do I'd wager medium is too soft.
Once you take it out, hold it over the sink and press on it with both hands from each side. Obviously not enough to damage it, but if you press evenly from top/bottom, you can get a lot of the water out. Once you've done that, you can cut it any way you want. I usually just cube it. And it usually goes in once most of the other stuff is cooked, but that depends on the dish.
I'm not biased either way, vegan or omnivore. I've heard that ingesting a lot of carbs is terrible for your pancreas with all that insulin. I've heard people that were depressed because of veganism. On the flip side though, I've read some text describing all of the benefits of veganism. It compared the diet of the eastern world to that of the west. I wouldn't mind giving it a try just to see how I feel. I wouldn't do soy though. I've read how unhealthy that stuff really is, but that's me being un-skeptical.
I'm not trying to look like I know what I'm talking about either. I don't know that much about it, I'm just saying what little I've read. While there are many wrong ways to eat, I don't think that there is a "right" way either.
On April 12 2011 06:32 EscPlan9 wrote: I've tried to cook a few times with tofu, but its a huge hassle to do right. How do you prepare them?
I used to try squishing it between two plates with a heavy object on top. Some of the water would get out, but there still was a lot left in it. It became really messy trying to have any meal with tofu in it, and if the water isn't almost all gone, the meal doesn't turn out right.
I totally suck at cooking tofu and would love tips on making it work out well.
I wish I had recipes to share, but mine are realllly basic. Like making an egg and cheese bagel, or tacos with vegetarian refried beans and vegetables and salsa.
I've had good results with firm tofu by wrapping it in a paper towl and leaving it in the fridge with some weight on it for a few hours.
On April 12 2011 05:59 Kipsate wrote: I have a question, I was under the impression that eat meat substitutes is actually worse for the environment(as these require a high amount of processing and energy thus to create). Is this true?Or am I being deluded by Anti-Vegans, I am curious about this. I am also wondering how many do not eat meat substitues as a result of this but survive on........other means?
It does not make logical sense that anything can be worse for the environment than meat. To produce meat, you have to feed crops to animals, which could have directly been eaten by humans, or the land could have been used for other types of crops that can be sold better to humans than fed to animals. The argument that land is sprayed with poison to make vegetables etc. grow better just means that the same happens to the land with crops for animal feed.
Eating wild boars, deer, elks etc. does not count. Those animals run around through the wilderness anyways and have nothing to do with crops.
On April 12 2011 06:02 solidbebe wrote: I see alot of discussion about how many carbs you need a day, now I've got a question: What are carbs and what food contains them?
"Carb" is short for "carbohydrate". It can come in different forms and one of them is sugar, which you can taste as sweetness while eating. There are other forms of carbs that you cannot taste as sweetness while eating (I think that form is used by plants to save space for storage). Carbs are in vegetables and most is in grains (bread, noodles) and beans. If you eat too much carbs, more than your body uses throughout the day, your body can convert it to fat and store it in your tummy. That is what is bad nowadays, I think, because you do not have occasional days of hunger like in medieval times anymore.
For how much you need per day, you can actually just listen to what your body tells you how hungry you are, and at the same time make sure to cook as much vegetable side dishes with as little fat as possible (reduce oil but stop before stuff starts to taste boring to you). Just make sure to do some introspection on how hungry you really are while taking your time to criticize the taste of your meal.
How proteins play a role in how much carbs your body uses, I have no idea. I know that cells can also burn proteins, not only carbs (and I know that after two or three days of hunger, cells can start to directly burn fat, but I'm not interested in that because that is probably unhealthy and definitely torture). I would be interested in a short explanation how protein intake modifies how much calories from carbs the body uses per day.
Hes a professional cyclist (a physically very tough sport) and he got 3th place in Paris - Roubaix last week, which is one of the hardest and most brutal one-day courses in professional cycling. It is also nicknamed 'The Hell of the North'. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris–Roubaix
Miguel Indurain had asma and won 5 Tours de France so asma is not bad for the respiratory system! The fact that there's some extraordinary people out there doesn't prove any point.
On other point, I'm glad of having found this thread. I thought people went vegan because they didn't wanted death for the animals, and I was like, oh yeah, fuck plants! But I've realized what vegans don't like is the shit farmers put into animals food and the way they are treated (althought plants are not treated any better).
Also, I will probably steal one recipe or two, I'm too low on vegetables lately and I'm still to find something I enjoy eating.
If i'm extremely hungry and very lazy i get a heap of broccoli, garlic, salt, pepper and olive oil, i wrap that in foil and chuck it in the oven. Very easy and tastes great. Man i love broccoli.
On April 12 2011 06:40 Dalguno wrote: I'm not biased either way, vegan or omnivore. I've heard that ingesting a lot of carbs is terrible for your pancreas with all that insulin. I've heard people that were depressed because of veganism. On the flip side though, I've read some text describing all of the benefits of veganism. It compared the diet of the eastern world to that of the west. I wouldn't mind giving it a try just to see how I feel. I wouldn't do soy though. I've read how unhealthy that stuff really is, but that's me being un-skeptical.
You could start by trying to serve a wider variety of side dishes to your meat based meal. This could naturally reduce how much meat you eat. At least this is what happened to me. Nowadays I do not eat meat most days of the week and I feel my meals actually got less boring than they were in the past.
Raw Vegan here (or mostly at least, all vegan anyway) and this is such a good thread so far! So little mud slinging lol :p
Was Vegetarian for a while and became a vegan about 2 years ago - is actually super easy to do, never noticed any reduction in energy levels or weightloss or anything. Didn't get much healthier though because my diet sucked, was just full of vegan junk food.
Little while after that I read that you can get rid of allergies and health problems by just cutting out junky foods from your diet and eating more raw fruits and vegetables, and I've got to say, it works really well so far
What I did was just replace grains and starchy carbs with bananas (so like 50% a days calories come from Bananas), which are pretty much just a really easy to digest starch themselves, and then make the rest up with fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds. Celery and cucumbers are actually the greatest things ever - get rid of headaches and congestion/infections really nicely
Can't really tell you how good its been not having serious allergies anymore - can be around cats, dogs, dust and pollen now without allergies flaring up at all, so I think they're basically cured
You hear crazy stories of people reversing serious health concerns with high fruit and vegetable vegan diets a lot, but I don't really know much about that from personal experience, and certainly don't want to bring a subject I know so little about into an open discussion on the internet..
Must say I'm a little surprised by people who are having problems with energy on vegan diets...Were you eating enough calories? Meat and cheese are fairly dense calorie sources, and one of the biggest problems I've seen in people when they are transitioning over is that they just make the same meals they made with meat but put in only carrots and potatoes, which are much less dense calorie sources than meat (you have to eat a kilo of potatoes for every 300g of beef you eat). So people think they're eating the same amount as they were previously, but are in fact eating half the calories and become tired because they aren't used to counting calories
Recipes are hard lol, I just eat apples and bananas and things whole. And salads obviously:
lettuce, tomatoes, sunflower seeds, green onions, avocado and lemon juice mix
Not very interesting lol
One thing I did really like recently was almond smoothies, which you owe to yourself to try.
- You basically take half cup of almonds - blend with cup of water - add 3 bananas, blend - optionally add some strawberries or kiwi or whatever fruit in the amount you want. I prefer about 5-10 strawberries. - then drink it. My favourite food right now I think
Pretty cheap, very fast, and like 6-800 calories depending on how well I know the cup-->grams conversion -.- High protein and iron as well I guess, although I don't really worry about protein that much - Enough calories --> probably enough protein. But that's an old discussion, and everyone has their own opinions on it, which is cool
In the end everyones going to have their own opinions on diet, and it's such a contentious topic amongst people on both sides of the argument, that these days I try and stay pretty neutral. But I do have to say, the health benefits I personally have experienced from this diet have been very surprising and eye opening, especially when I think how badly depressed I used to become and how severe my allergies were.
P.S I've never liked animals that much. My whole family are crazy about animals (dogs, cats, horses etc) and they all eat meat, so I thought that was a funny little point to end on :p
My definitions: Vegetarian: Not eating any products that require the animal to be killed Pescetarian: Same as vegetarian but disregarding fish/crustacea Vegan: Not eating/wearing/using any animal products
My reasons are: 1. Healthier 2. More eco-friendly 3. Usually cheaper 4. Ethical reasons
I haven't read through the whole thread, but in case no-one has pointed this out yet - with regards to your definition of a vegetarian... In that case a vegetarian would not eat dairy products, as where do you think the majority of hens and cows get sent to once they stop producing eggs and milk at an economical level?
On April 12 2011 04:29 frogurt wrote: I'm happy to see any rejection of meat.
But pescetarian that claim to be vegetarians can be irritating, it's like when someone says "i'm in silver league, but i'm good enough to be gold." Just don't claim to be something you're not.
I kind of feel the same way about vegetarians that claim they are doing it for the animals. A lot of vegetarians, as a result of giving up meat, resort to dairy to substitute their dietary needs and increase their intake of milk and cheese and eggs, resulting in far more suffering to the suffering of animals than if they were eating meat and less milk and eggs. The milk and egg industries cause more suffering to animals and a simple Google search will verify this.
So a vegetarian may claim they're doing it for health reasons. But it's hypocritical for them to claim that they are doing it for the benefit of the animals.
On April 12 2011 04:29 frogurt wrote: I'm happy to see any rejection of meat.
But pescetarian that claim to be vegetarians can be irritating, it's like when someone says "i'm in silver league, but i'm good enough to be gold." Just don't claim to be something you're not.
I kind of feel the same way about vegetarians that claim they are doing it for the animals. A lot of vegetarians, as a result of giving up meat, resort to dairy to substitute their dietary needs and increase their intake of milk and cheese and eggs, resulting in far more suffering to the suffering of animals than if they were eating meat and less milk and eggs. The milk and egg industries cause more suffering to animals and a simple Google search will verify this.
So a vegetarian may claim they're doing it for health reasons. But it's hypocritical for them to claim that they are doing it for the benefit of the animals.
I kind of see your point but it think you're being too critical. Not eating meat is always better than nothing, even if you do re-direct your business to dairy.
On April 12 2011 07:23 Piy wrote: Raw Vegan here (or mostly at least, all vegan anyway) and this is such a good thread so far! So little mud slinging lol :p
Was Vegetarian for a while and became a vegan about 2 years ago - is actually super easy to do, never noticed any reduction in energy levels or weightloss or anything. Didn't get much healthier though because my diet sucked, was just full of vegan junk food.
Little while after that I read that you can get rid of allergies and health problems by just cutting out junky foods from your diet and eating more raw fruits and vegetables, and I've got to say, it works really well so far
What I did was just replace grains and starchy carbs with bananas (so like 50% a days calories come from Bananas), which are pretty much just a really easy to digest starch themselves, and then make the rest up with fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds. Celery and cucumbers are actually the greatest things ever - get rid of headaches and congestion/infections really nicely
Can't really tell you how good its been not having serious allergies anymore - can be around cats, dogs, dust and pollen now without allergies flaring up at all, so I think they're basically cured
You hear crazy stories of people reversing serious health concerns with high fruit and vegetable vegan diets a lot, but I don't really know much about that from personal experience, and certainly don't want to bring a subject I know so little about into an open discussion on the internet..
Must say I'm a little surprised by people who are having problems with energy on vegan diets...Were you eating enough calories? Meat and cheese are fairly dense calorie sources, and one of the biggest problems I've seen in people when they are transitioning over is that they just make the same meals they made with meat but put in only carrots and potatoes, which are much less dense calorie sources than meat (you have to eat a kilo of potatoes for every 300g of beef you eat). So people think they're eating the same amount as they were previously, but are in fact eating half the calories and become tired because they aren't used to counting calories
Recipes are hard lol, I just eat apples and bananas and things whole. And salads obviously:
lettuce, tomatoes, sunflower seeds, green onions, avocado and lemon juice mix
Not very interesting lol
One thing I did really like recently was almond smoothies, which you owe to yourself to try.
- You basically take half cup of almonds - blend with cup of water - add 3 bananas, blend - optionally add some strawberries or kiwi or whatever fruit in the amount you want. I prefer about 5-10 strawberries. - then drink it. My favourite food right now I think
Pretty cheap, very fast, and like 6-800 calories depending on how well I know the cup-->grams conversion -.- High protein and iron as well I guess, although I don't really worry about protein that much - Enough calories --> probably enough protein. But that's an old discussion, and everyone has their own opinions on it, which is cool
In the end everyones going to have their own opinions on diet, and it's such a contentious topic amongst people on both sides of the argument, that these days I try and stay pretty neutral. But I do have to say, the health benefits I personally have experienced from this diet have been very surprising and eye opening, especially when I think how badly depressed I used to become and how severe my allergies were.
P.S I've never liked animals that much. My whole family are crazy about animals (dogs, cats, horses etc) and they all eat meat, so I thought that was a funny little point to end on :p
Wow. I'm a nooby compared to raw vegan. I would get very hungry and very tired of nuts.
On April 12 2011 03:18 dusters wrote: Mmmmmm meat. Nothing like a good steak.
User was warned for this post
I share this sentiment.
Asshole part of my post aside - I definitely want to keep track of this thread, because vegetarian meals are often much more creative and can be a great source of inspiration.
That curry recipe in the OP sounds pretty damn good (it uses a couple of ingredients that would definitely work great in curry that I haven't thought of using).
I have a slight suggestion (personal taste here): add a banana, sliced, to it. I know, it sounds weird, but it adds this sweetness to the curry, and it just brings out more flavour somehow. It's a trick I picked up a few years ago. Alternatively, other fruits could be used as well (such as an apple, a pear, etc), but I like using a banana. I've found it works really, really well in green curries.
Some do it for the "health benefits" which most students would probably laugh at; some do it because it's some type of political statement for animals, as to what it accomplishes, who knows.
On April 12 2011 08:50 divito wrote: This movement is just as convoluted as religion.
Some do it for the "health benefits" which most students would probably laugh at; some do it because it's some type of political statement for animals, as to what it accomplishes, who knows.
Then leave.
I've been thinking about going vegetarian, recently. I did it for about a year, but I stopped because my family couldn't really afford to not eat meat. However, I'm perfectly within an ability to do so now. Somebody said something pretty interesting to me recently, "If you're having hesitations, but believe it morally, you're probably just addicted to meat." Does anyone else feel like this is true?
On April 12 2011 08:43 Coutcha wrote: whats th difference between Raw Vegan and vegan? (you get more superpower ? )
Dunno, I guess it's basically just vegan diet without sugary junk food, starchy grains, potatoes, roasting, frying or baking. Some people say it kills digestive enzymes to cook food or something, but I don't know anything about that, but I guess it makes intuitive sense to me that frying, roasting and baking probably aren't the best things to do. Seems to correlate with the current stance of nutrionists at any rate.
On April 12 2011 08:50 divito wrote: This movement is just as convoluted as religion.
Some do it for the "health benefits" which most students would probably laugh at; some do it because it's some type of political statement for animals, as to what it accomplishes, who knows.
Then leave.
I've been thinking about going vegetarian, recently. I did it for about a year, but I stopped because my family couldn't really afford to not eat meat. However, I'm perfectly within an ability to do so now. Somebody said something pretty interesting to me recently, "If you're having hesitations, but believe it morally, you're probably just addicted to meat." Does anyone else feel like this is true?
Well, just reading this thread you can see people finding meat and, (in my case at least) dairy and eggs, a lot less appetising as time goes by. I don't know about addictive in a physical or psychological sense though, I don't know enough about that to comment. I do think people mix up the signals for hunger and cravings a lot though, and people will crave meat and fatty foods a lot at first if they stop eating them.
Probably the best way to do it is to transition gradually if you are wanting to make the switch. When I switched from vegetarian to vegan a long time ago I actually did it because I realised that apart from milk in tea I just wasn't eating dairy anymore, so I didn't suffer from the same kind of cravings a lot of other people report when becoming a vegan.
Theres a lot of scientific debate about the addictive properties of cheese and chocolate that I don't really want to discuss because of how divisive, both casually and scientifically, statements like "milk is bad for you" or "chocolate is addictive" can be. Can be interesting to read about though.
I kind of see your point but it think you're being too critical. Not eating meat is always better than nothing, even if you do re-direct your business to dairy.
Well I mean that's my point - not eating meat may make you feel better about yourself, but if by being a vegetarian you have increased your dairy intake to substitute the meat you were eating previously, then you are in fact doing more to harm animals than reducing the suffering. Take eggs for example. In order for their to be a laying hen for a farming warehouse for egg-laying hens - they purchase female chicks in order to produce the eggs. However, because the birth rate for male and female chicks is the same as humans (50/50) - half of the males that are born are discarded - sent to the grinders. Then they are debeaked, a painful process, in order to reduce pecking, which would not occur as frequently if they were allowed to roam freely with no limits. And then after a life of laying eggs, where they are fed a diet that makes them constantly hungry but only just nutritious enough for them to be able to lay at maximum efficiency (and worse if they're kept in battery cages), after that they are sent to the slaughterhouses for food - where the process is exactly the same as chickens bred for meat.
Most people agree that it is wrong to inflict pain or suffering on animals for no good reason. Most people agree that hens kept in battery cages are suffering. But what about free range? Barn laid? Organic? You would assume that under these systems the hens live happy lives out in open fields, lives free of suffering, and they only die naturally from old age. This image is reinforced by cartoons of hens roaming freely, and people talking lots about the problems of battery farms, but not about the problems with free range.
In order to get laying hens you need fertile eggs. Half of these hatch into male roosters. Becasue roosters don't lay eggs, they are of no use to the egg industry. The day-old-chicks are either gassed with gasses such as carbon dioxide or are killed by instantaneous fragmentation.1 So everytime a free range farmer buys a laying hen, a male rooster is killed. Surplus or 'substandard' chicks are also killed. 2
Free range hens may have their beaks trimmed 3 with a hot blade or laser when they are less then ten days old. Debeaking is an extremely painful process that is done without any pain killers. Debeaked hens show forms of neuroma indicating chronic pain.4
According to the Brambell Committee, a group of veterinarians and other experts appointed by the British Parliament: “Between the horn and bone is a thin layer of highly sensitive soft tissue, resembling the quick of the human nail. The hot knife used in debeaking cuts through this complex of horn, bone and sensitive tissue causing severe pain.”
Even free range farms may send their entire flocks to the slaughterhouse when they start laying fewer eggs 3. Sometimes the farmer may kill the hens on farm, by holding the bird upside down and twisting their neck 5.
Organic, free-range and cage-free hens all end their lives at the same slaughterhouses as battery hens.
When they stop producing eggs, the chickens are caught by their legs, thrown into crates, and transported to the slaughterhouse where each bird is shackled upside down to a chain. As the chain moves along, the chicken’s head dips into a waterbath stunner. Workers then slice across the back of the chicken’s neck 6. The waterbath stunner does not actually kill the bird. Occasionally a bird may regain consciousness, but be unable to move because the spinal cord has been cut – and the slaughterhouse worker will not be able to tell that the chicken is awake and aware. Some chickens die miserably through having their heads pulled off by the “automatic head puller” machine while still conscious 7.
All egg, regardless of whether they are free-range or battery farmed cause hens to suffer and die. Male hens are killed by instantaneous fragmentation, birds may be debeaked and female hens are slaughtered when they stop producing eggs.
We all agree that it is wrong to cause unneccesary suffering and death to nonhuman animals. At the least, this must mean that it is wrong to kill for reasons of pleasure, convencience or habit. Using eggs, and other animal products, causes suffering and death to billions of nonhuman animals. And our only justification for using these products is that we derive pleasure from how they taste, look or feel, it is convenient to use them or it is habit to use them. This is not a good justification.
Even in the most 'humane' conditions, animals are still treated as nothing more than economic commodities, nothing more then property. Animals status as property presents many moral and practical problems, and this property status is reinforced when you buy animal products. Click here to learn more.
Free range eggs are not the solution. The solution, is veganism. Vegans do not wear, consume or use animal products such as meat, dairy, eggs, honey, leather, fur and silk. Going vegan means that you will not participate in the suffering and death of more than 52 billion animals every year 8.
3) "Bio Eggs Product Standards" Eco Egg Company Limited, May 14, 2006
4) W. Temple and T.M. Foster, "The welfare status of egg production in New Zealand" Proceedings of the New Zealand Society of Animal Production 53 (1993): 215-217
5) "Choosing Chooks. Part 2" New Zealand lifestyle farmer April 2006 30-31
6) Animal welfare (commercial slaughter) code of welfare 2006: draft code of welfare 10 (Wellington: NAWAC, 2006)
7) N.G. Gregory, J.K. Robins and T.A. Stewart, "Blood spots in chicken meat after slaughter: a humane alternative" New Zealand veterinary journal 47 (1999): 77-78
8) Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, 2003
The milk industry is much the same. See this video for example:
On April 12 2011 04:29 frogurt wrote: I'm happy to see any rejection of meat.
But pescetarian that claim to be vegetarians can be irritating, it's like when someone says "i'm in silver league, but i'm good enough to be gold." Just don't claim to be something you're not.
I kind of feel the same way about vegetarians that claim they are doing it for the animals. A lot of vegetarians, as a result of giving up meat, resort to dairy to substitute their dietary needs and increase their intake of milk and cheese and eggs, resulting in far more suffering to the suffering of animals than if they were eating meat and less milk and eggs. The milk and egg industries cause more suffering to animals and a simple Google search will verify this.
So a vegetarian may claim they're doing it for health reasons. But it's hypocritical for them to claim that they are doing it for the benefit of the animals.
You can choose to buy milk or eggs from better sources, for instance free range eggs or from a local egg farm (as my family back home does). Personally I will do this once I'm a little more affluent, but right now I'm a broke-ass university student just looking to get by.
On April 12 2011 08:50 divito wrote: This movement is just as convoluted as religion.
Some do it for the "health benefits" which most students would probably laugh at; some do it because it's some type of political statement for animals, as to what it accomplishes, who knows.
User was temp banned for this post.
It's amazing how much stupidity and ignorance someone can cram into one post
I kind of see your point but it think you're being too critical. Not eating meat is always better than nothing, even if you do re-direct your business to dairy.
Well I mean that's my point - not eating meat may make you feel better about yourself, but if by being a vegetarian you have increased your dairy intake to substitute the meat you were eating previously, then you are in fact doing more to harm animals than reducing the suffering. Take eggs for example. In order for their to be a laying hen for a farming warehouse for egg-laying hens - they purchase female chicks in order to produce the eggs. However, because the birth rate for male and female chicks is the same as humans (50/50) - half of the males that are born are discarded - sent to the grinders. Then they are debeaked, a painful process, in order to reduce pecking, which would not occur as frequently if they were allowed to roam freely with no limits. And then after a life of laying eggs, where they are fed a diet that makes them constantly hungry but only just nutritious enough for them to be able to lay at maximum efficiency (and worse if they're kept in battery cages), after that they are sent to the slaughterhouses for food - where the process is exactly the same as chickens bred for meat.
Most people agree that it is wrong to inflict pain or suffering on animals for no good reason. Most people agree that hens kept in battery cages are suffering. But what about free range? Barn laid? Organic? You would assume that under these systems the hens live happy lives out in open fields, lives free of suffering, and they only die naturally from old age. This image is reinforced by cartoons of hens roaming freely, and people talking lots about the problems of battery farms, but not about the problems with free range.
In order to get laying hens you need fertile eggs. Half of these hatch into male roosters. Becasue roosters don't lay eggs, they are of no use to the egg industry. The day-old-chicks are either gassed with gasses such as carbon dioxide or are killed by instantaneous fragmentation.1 So everytime a free range farmer buys a laying hen, a male rooster is killed. Surplus or 'substandard' chicks are also killed. 2
Free range hens may have their beaks trimmed 3 with a hot blade or laser when they are less then ten days old. Debeaking is an extremely painful process that is done without any pain killers. Debeaked hens show forms of neuroma indicating chronic pain.4
According to the Brambell Committee, a group of veterinarians and other experts appointed by the British Parliament: “Between the horn and bone is a thin layer of highly sensitive soft tissue, resembling the quick of the human nail. The hot knife used in debeaking cuts through this complex of horn, bone and sensitive tissue causing severe pain.”
Even free range farms may send their entire flocks to the slaughterhouse when they start laying fewer eggs 3. Sometimes the farmer may kill the hens on farm, by holding the bird upside down and twisting their neck 5.
Organic, free-range and cage-free hens all end their lives at the same slaughterhouses as battery hens.
When they stop producing eggs, the chickens are caught by their legs, thrown into crates, and transported to the slaughterhouse where each bird is shackled upside down to a chain. As the chain moves along, the chicken’s head dips into a waterbath stunner. Workers then slice across the back of the chicken’s neck 6. The waterbath stunner does not actually kill the bird. Occasionally a bird may regain consciousness, but be unable to move because the spinal cord has been cut – and the slaughterhouse worker will not be able to tell that the chicken is awake and aware. Some chickens die miserably through having their heads pulled off by the “automatic head puller” machine while still conscious 7.
All egg, regardless of whether they are free-range or battery farmed cause hens to suffer and die. Male hens are killed by instantaneous fragmentation, birds may be debeaked and female hens are slaughtered when they stop producing eggs.
We all agree that it is wrong to cause unneccesary suffering and death to nonhuman animals. At the least, this must mean that it is wrong to kill for reasons of pleasure, convencience or habit. Using eggs, and other animal products, causes suffering and death to billions of nonhuman animals. And our only justification for using these products is that we derive pleasure from how they taste, look or feel, it is convenient to use them or it is habit to use them. This is not a good justification.
Even in the most 'humane' conditions, animals are still treated as nothing more than economic commodities, nothing more then property. Animals status as property presents many moral and practical problems, and this property status is reinforced when you buy animal products. Click here to learn more.
Free range eggs are not the solution. The solution, is veganism. Vegans do not wear, consume or use animal products such as meat, dairy, eggs, honey, leather, fur and silk. Going vegan means that you will not participate in the suffering and death of more than 52 billion animals every year 8.
3) "Bio Eggs Product Standards" Eco Egg Company Limited, May 14, 2006
4) W. Temple and T.M. Foster, "The welfare status of egg production in New Zealand" Proceedings of the New Zealand Society of Animal Production 53 (1993): 215-217
5) "Choosing Chooks. Part 2" New Zealand lifestyle farmer April 2006 30-31
6) Animal welfare (commercial slaughter) code of welfare 2006: draft code of welfare 10 (Wellington: NAWAC, 2006)
7) N.G. Gregory, J.K. Robins and T.A. Stewart, "Blood spots in chicken meat after slaughter: a humane alternative" New Zealand veterinary journal 47 (1999): 77-78
8) Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, 2003
The milk industry is much the same. See this video for example:
All fine except for one major assumption: that consumption of dairy has significantly increased from the switch. I infact consume less dairy, especially since I have soy milk instead of regular milk.
Even if dairy consumption has increased for some vegetarians, they still are purchasing a hell of a lot less animal products overall than non-vegetarians.
I cannot tell if you are trolling here, or actually want to argue a point. I think I can speak for most vegetarians here in saying we are not interested in having a full fledged debate on the ethics of vegetarian in a forum. Also, read the notice on the top:
Do not make this a debate on meat eating. You don't need to prove people "wrong" about their eating habits.
On April 12 2011 08:50 divito wrote: This movement is just as convoluted as religion.
Some do it for the "health benefits" which most students would probably laugh at; some do it because it's some type of political statement for animals, as to what it accomplishes, who knows.
User was temp banned for this post.
Unfortunately, not surprised someone like this would make their way onto this part of the forum. I think vegeterianism/veganism/animal rights activism is one of the more visibly trolled parts of the Internets (though, to be sure, not as trolled as race/politics/sexuality).
On the one hand, non-vegeterian here, but I don't hate anyone that goes vegeterian/vegan. I actually like what some vegeterians/vegans are doing in terms of the food they're producing. The Chicago Diner is one that comes to mind.
Anyone been to The Loving Hut chain of vegan restaurants? I've been once, but I was less than impressed. I doubt I will go back.
I'm not a vegetarian, but am trying to drastically cut down on my meat consumption. I must say, cooking raw vegetables on the stove with a lot of pepper, salt and garlic = awesome. I am interested though, why did many of you choose to become a vegetarian? Health reasons, your preferred lifestyle, environmental reasons?
I myself am eating less meat because it takes significantly more energy to process meat than what it provides, higher global meat consumption has a negative environmental impact, and most of the corporate [American] meat companies do not take care of the animals; the animals are diseased, filthy, and probably unhappy.
On April 12 2011 04:29 frogurt wrote: I'm happy to see any rejection of meat.
But pescetarian that claim to be vegetarians can be irritating, it's like when someone says "i'm in silver league, but i'm good enough to be gold." Just don't claim to be something you're not.
I kind of feel the same way about vegetarians that claim they are doing it for the animals. A lot of vegetarians, as a result of giving up meat, resort to dairy to substitute their dietary needs and increase their intake of milk and cheese and eggs, resulting in far more suffering to the suffering of animals than if they were eating meat and less milk and eggs. The milk and egg industries cause more suffering to animals and a simple Google search will verify this.
So a vegetarian may claim they're doing it for health reasons. But it's hypocritical for them to claim that they are doing it for the benefit of the animals.
You can choose to buy milk or eggs from better sources, for instance free range eggs or from a local egg farm (as my family back home does). Personally I will do this once I'm a little more affluent, but right now I'm a broke-ass university student just looking to get by.
Read the spoilered text in his post.
I recently watched a movie called Food Inc. which dedicated a portion of it to industrial chicken farmers. The conditions that these chickens and cows live in are truly miserable.
I kind of see your point but it think you're being too critical. Not eating meat is always better than nothing, even if you do re-direct your business to dairy.
Well I mean that's my point - not eating meat may make you feel better about yourself, but if by being a vegetarian you have increased your dairy intake to substitute the meat you were eating previously, then you are in fact doing more to harm animals than reducing the suffering. Take eggs for example. In order for their to be a laying hen for a farming warehouse for egg-laying hens - they purchase female chicks in order to produce the eggs. However, because the birth rate for male and female chicks is the same as humans (50/50) - half of the males that are born are discarded - sent to the grinders. Then they are debeaked, a painful process, in order to reduce pecking, which would not occur as frequently if they were allowed to roam freely with no limits. And then after a life of laying eggs, where they are fed a diet that makes them constantly hungry but only just nutritious enough for them to be able to lay at maximum efficiency (and worse if they're kept in battery cages), after that they are sent to the slaughterhouses for food - where the process is exactly the same as chickens bred for meat.
Most people agree that it is wrong to inflict pain or suffering on animals for no good reason. Most people agree that hens kept in battery cages are suffering. But what about free range? Barn laid? Organic? You would assume that under these systems the hens live happy lives out in open fields, lives free of suffering, and they only die naturally from old age. This image is reinforced by cartoons of hens roaming freely, and people talking lots about the problems of battery farms, but not about the problems with free range.
In order to get laying hens you need fertile eggs. Half of these hatch into male roosters. Becasue roosters don't lay eggs, they are of no use to the egg industry. The day-old-chicks are either gassed with gasses such as carbon dioxide or are killed by instantaneous fragmentation.1 So everytime a free range farmer buys a laying hen, a male rooster is killed. Surplus or 'substandard' chicks are also killed. 2
Free range hens may have their beaks trimmed 3 with a hot blade or laser when they are less then ten days old. Debeaking is an extremely painful process that is done without any pain killers. Debeaked hens show forms of neuroma indicating chronic pain.4
According to the Brambell Committee, a group of veterinarians and other experts appointed by the British Parliament: “Between the horn and bone is a thin layer of highly sensitive soft tissue, resembling the quick of the human nail. The hot knife used in debeaking cuts through this complex of horn, bone and sensitive tissue causing severe pain.”
Even free range farms may send their entire flocks to the slaughterhouse when they start laying fewer eggs 3. Sometimes the farmer may kill the hens on farm, by holding the bird upside down and twisting their neck 5.
Organic, free-range and cage-free hens all end their lives at the same slaughterhouses as battery hens.
When they stop producing eggs, the chickens are caught by their legs, thrown into crates, and transported to the slaughterhouse where each bird is shackled upside down to a chain. As the chain moves along, the chicken’s head dips into a waterbath stunner. Workers then slice across the back of the chicken’s neck 6. The waterbath stunner does not actually kill the bird. Occasionally a bird may regain consciousness, but be unable to move because the spinal cord has been cut – and the slaughterhouse worker will not be able to tell that the chicken is awake and aware. Some chickens die miserably through having their heads pulled off by the “automatic head puller” machine while still conscious 7.
All egg, regardless of whether they are free-range or battery farmed cause hens to suffer and die. Male hens are killed by instantaneous fragmentation, birds may be debeaked and female hens are slaughtered when they stop producing eggs.
We all agree that it is wrong to cause unneccesary suffering and death to nonhuman animals. At the least, this must mean that it is wrong to kill for reasons of pleasure, convencience or habit. Using eggs, and other animal products, causes suffering and death to billions of nonhuman animals. And our only justification for using these products is that we derive pleasure from how they taste, look or feel, it is convenient to use them or it is habit to use them. This is not a good justification.
Even in the most 'humane' conditions, animals are still treated as nothing more than economic commodities, nothing more then property. Animals status as property presents many moral and practical problems, and this property status is reinforced when you buy animal products. Click here to learn more.
Free range eggs are not the solution. The solution, is veganism. Vegans do not wear, consume or use animal products such as meat, dairy, eggs, honey, leather, fur and silk. Going vegan means that you will not participate in the suffering and death of more than 52 billion animals every year 8.
3) "Bio Eggs Product Standards" Eco Egg Company Limited, May 14, 2006
4) W. Temple and T.M. Foster, "The welfare status of egg production in New Zealand" Proceedings of the New Zealand Society of Animal Production 53 (1993): 215-217
5) "Choosing Chooks. Part 2" New Zealand lifestyle farmer April 2006 30-31
6) Animal welfare (commercial slaughter) code of welfare 2006: draft code of welfare 10 (Wellington: NAWAC, 2006)
7) N.G. Gregory, J.K. Robins and T.A. Stewart, "Blood spots in chicken meat after slaughter: a humane alternative" New Zealand veterinary journal 47 (1999): 77-78
8) Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, 2003
The milk industry is much the same. See this video for example:
All fine except for one major assumption: that consumption of dairy has significantly increased from the switch. I infact consume less dairy, especially since I have soy milk instead of regular milk.
Even if dairy consumption has increased for some vegetarians, they still are purchasing a hell of a lot less animal products overall than non-vegetarians.
I cannot tell if you are trolling here, or actually want to argue a point. I think I can speak for most vegetarians here in saying we are not interested in having a full fledged debate on the ethics of vegetarian in a forum. Also, read the notice on the top:
Do not make this a debate on meat eating. You don't need to prove people "wrong" about their eating habits.
The old argument I used to do was the "hours of suffering" required to produce animal foods back when I was going through my fanatical "meat is murder" phase. Milk wins. You can get a lot of milk relative to other foods for a small quantity of suffering (time spent alive) for the cow. But I've always thought that these kind of preachy, theoretical attempts to convert meat eaters are the worst...Nothing makes people dig in their heels more than when you challenge their long held beliefs, and nothing makes them dislike you more than if you tell them they are a bad person for holding them. Also it makes what can be an interesting debate into a stubborn battle of opinions where each side feels a moral obligation not to back down or concede ground, which are never nice
I always find I have a lot more interest in the beliefs of people I actually enjoy being around, who discuss their beliefs openly but without judgement, rather than the fanatical people constantly trying to prove me wrong whenever we get onto the subject. So regardless of what kind of position you are trying to extol to others, just lead by example rather than forcing it down peoples throats
P.S I appreciate the irony of judging the way that people judge others :p
Maybe a picture of our lovely Jinro should be added to the op as well? I know he was vegetarian for quite a while but had to give it up when he moved to Korea considering meat and such is used in many of their dishes.
On April 12 2011 09:51 x-Catalyst wrote: Maybe a picture of our lovely Jinro should be added to the op as well? I know he was vegetarian for quite a while but had to give it up when he moved to Korea considering meat and such is used in many of their dishes.
Yeah korea sounds like one of the worst possible places for food if you don't eat meat. I'm sure there are nutritious options, they're probably just not always convenient
On April 12 2011 09:43 Piy wrote: The old argument I used to do was the "hours of suffering" required to produce animal foods back when I was going through my fanatical "meat is murder" phase. Milk wins. You can get a lot of milk relative to other foods for a small quantity of suffering (time spent alive) for the cow.
Dairy cows are continually kept pregnant and lactating and their babies are taken away from them when they are only two days old. The life of a dairy cow is not as natural as you might think, especially considering that 80 percent of dairy cows are made pregnant through artificial insemination. 1
The only way for a cow, like any other mammal, to produce milk is for the cow to have a baby. The milk produced by cows is naturally meant for baby calves; however, because people want to drink this milk, the baby calves are taken away from their mothers when they are only a few days old. 1 Cows are extremely maternal animals and both the mother cow and the baby calf suffer terribly from being separated at such a young age. One study showed that calves with no interaction with their mothers or only interaction through a fence, "induced significant increases in walking, butting, urinating, and vocalizing"2. In fact, one cow missed her baby so much that she broke out of her paddock and trekked through 8 kilometers of paddocks and rivers to find her baby 3. On dairy farms, mother cows can be heard bellowing out wildly trying to find their babies as well as running after the cattle trucks that take their babies to separate farms.
The baby calves lives are then decided by their gender. If the calf is male then he is taken away to be raised and slaughtered for meat. Because of this the NZ dairy industry contributes to the death of more than 1 million male calves every year. 4 That’s one death every 20 seconds. In fact, 55 percent of all beef in New Zealand supermarkets comes directly from the dairy industry. 5 These male calves are transported to separate meat farms or slaughterhouses, where they will never see their mothers again. Transported as young as 4 days of age, they endure cold and hunger, without food for up to 30 hours, while struggling to maintain their footing in the cattle truck.
There is no legal requirement for calves to be fed before being transported. A 1998 study 6 looked at 7,169 young male calves who arrived at a Wanganui abattoir (slaughterhouse) after a 7-hour journey in cattle trucks. The research found that 27 arrived in an 'unacceptable condition' - lying down, unable to walk, extremely weak or seriously injured. A further 4 percent were 'marginal' with a 'wet umbilicus, were hollow sided, apparently immature, or weak and slow and unsteady on their feet'. While these numbers may not seem large, the fact that a million male calves are slaughtered every year means that thousands probably arrive at slaughterhouses in critical condition, and tens of thousands are seriously unwell after the journey.
If the calf is female she will either be kept as a herd replacement, living in the same conditions as her mother, or she will be sent to a slaughterhouse or killed on farm.
In the 6-8 days after calving, cows lose weight and condition rapidly, as their bodies consume themselves to provide milk for absent calves 7, so
that humans can buy milkshakes to wash down burgers made from the bodies of those same calves. Researchers have estimated that a modern dairy cow is under as much strain as a cyclist on Tour de France. 8
Naturally cows can live to be up to 25 years old. But on dairy farms they are slaughtered when they are only 5-7 years old meaning that most dairy cows live less than a third of their natural life span. In fact, 20 percent of New Zealand's dairy cows are killed every year, because they are considered too old or they fail to become pregnant. 9 Cows form strong relationships and spend most of their time in 'friendship groups' of 2-4 cows who lick and groom each other. 10 This annual slaughter is very distressing to their friends in the herd.
Cows are forced onto trucks (in the same way baby male calves are transported) that take them to be slaughtered. When they arrive at the slaughterhouse, they are held together in stunning pens where they are stunned with a captive bolt pistol. They are then shackled by the leg, lifted up and have their throats slit. After the blood has been drained away, the cows body is used for cheap meat and pet food. 11
Because dairy cows are milked so excessively, NZ dairy cows have increased risks of teat diseases like mastitis. Symptoms of mastitis include include hot, swollen, acutely painful udders, fever, and loss of appetite. When a cow has mastitis her udder may become so inflamed that it is as hard as a stone, and blood bubbles into her milk, which becomes clotted and watery 12. Severe cases of mastitis can kill a cow in less then 24 hours. Modern dairy cows have been bred for milk production to the point where the teats of their enlarged udders dangle close to the ground, and become muddy and infected. 13
Although tail docking is not as common in cattle as in sheep, the tails of some dairy cows are amputated using a tight rubber ring, or a searing iron, in order to “improve comfort for milking personnel, and enhance milking efficiency,” 13 or to try and stop mastitis. However, the scientific evidence for mastitis prevention is inconclusive. A US study by researcher Dan Weary found no health benefits in chopping off cows’ tails. 14
Amputation is very painful, as the cow’s tail is richly supplied with nerves and blood vessels. Cows need their tails to swat away insects, and possibly to communicate with other cows. Docked cows try in vain to flick their tail stumps, and are likely to suffer from neuropathic pain, similar to the “phantom limb” pain experienced by human amputees. 16 Cattle may also be branded for identification.
The RNZSPCA is opposed both to the docking of the tails of dairy cows, and to the use of hot branding.
Calves are often dehorned to prevent damage or bruising to their carcass during slaughter. Calf's may be dehorned with bolt cutters, scoop dehorners or a butchers saw. This causes pain, bleeding and exposure of the frontal sinuses in older animals. 13 The pain can last 6 hours after dehorning. 15 Dehorning is often done without the use of anaesthetics.
In addition to having distinct personalities, cows are very intelligent animals who can remember things for a long time.
Animal behaviorists have found that cows interact in complex ways, developing friendships over time, sometimes holding grudges against cows who treat them badly and choosing leaders based upon intelligence. They have complex emotions as well and even have the ability to worry about the future.
Researchers have found that cows can not only figure out problems, they also enjoy the challenge and get excited when they find a solution. In one study, researchers challenged the animals with a task where they had to find how to open a door to get some food. The researchers then measured their brainwaves. Professor Broom said that ‘The brainwaves showed the cows excitement; their heartbeat went up and some even jumped into the air. We called it their Eureka moment,’
Cows can also learn how to push a lever to operate a drinking fountain when they’re thirsty or press a button with their head to release food when they’re hungry. Like humans they quickly learn to avoid things that cause pain like electric fences. In fact if just one cow in the herd is shocked by an electric fence, the rest of the herd will learn from that and will avoid the fence in the future.
Grandmother cows often help their daughters with mothering duties, but one cow named Olivia wanted no part of that. She never left her calf’s side, and she ignored her mother’s offers to help groom him. Offended, her mother finally marched off to another field to graze with her friends and never communicated to her daughter again.
Cows can also remember and hold grudges against people who have hurt them or their family members.
Sources:
1) "Pasture-based dairying the New Zealand way", New Zealand Agritech
2) "A note on behavioral responses to brief cow-calf separation and reunion in cattle" Journal of veterinary behavior, (2007): 10-14
3) SAFE Humane resource 'Animals and Us'
4) "Beef cattle productivity from pasture" Agritech
5) "Statistics", Beef New Zealand
6) Stafford, K.J., “The physical state and plasma biochemical profile of young calves on arrival at a slaughter plant,” New Zealand veterinary journal 49.4 (2001): 142-149
7) “Weight loss after calving,” New Zealand dairy farmer 80.12 (2005): 73.
8) J. Webster, Animal welfare: a cool eye towards Eden (Oxford: Blackwell Science, 1994)
9) McQueen, Robert J. [et al.], “The WEKA machine learning workbench: its application to a real world agricultural database,” University of Waikato, Dept. of Computer Science
10) Leake, Jonathon, “The secret life of moody cows,” Sunday star times Jan. 27, 2005: 13.
11) "Truth or Dairy", AAA Leaflet
12) S.M. McDougall, “Prevalence of clinical mastitis in 38 Waikato dairy herds in early lactation,” New Zealand veterinary journal 47 (1999): 143-149.
13) Animal welfare (painful husbandry procedures) code of welfare 2005
14) "Scientists let the tail wag their research,” Chronicle of higher education 46 (2000): 22.
15) C. McMeekan et al., “Effects of a local anaesthetic and a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory analgesic on the behavioural responses of calves to dehorning,” New Zealand veterinary journal 47 (1999): 92-96
16) J. Ladewig and L.R. Matthews, “The importance of physiological measurements in farm animal stress research,” Proceedings of the New Zealand Society of Animal Production 52 (1992): 77-9
On April 12 2011 07:23 Piy wrote: Raw Vegan here (or mostly at least, all vegan anyway) and this is such a good thread so far! So little mud slinging lol :p
Was Vegetarian for a while and became a vegan about 2 years ago - is actually super easy to do, never noticed any reduction in energy levels or weightloss or anything. Didn't get much healthier though because my diet sucked, was just full of vegan junk food.
Little while after that I read that you can get rid of allergies and health problems by just cutting out junky foods from your diet and eating more raw fruits and vegetables, and I've got to say, it works really well so far
What I did was just replace grains and starchy carbs with bananas (so like 50% a days calories come from Bananas), which are pretty much just a really easy to digest starch themselves, and then make the rest up with fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds. Celery and cucumbers are actually the greatest things ever - get rid of headaches and congestion/infections really nicely
Can't really tell you how good its been not having serious allergies anymore - can be around cats, dogs, dust and pollen now without allergies flaring up at all, so I think they're basically cured
You hear crazy stories of people reversing serious health concerns with high fruit and vegetable vegan diets a lot, but I don't really know much about that from personal experience, and certainly don't want to bring a subject I know so little about into an open discussion on the internet..
Must say I'm a little surprised by people who are having problems with energy on vegan diets...Were you eating enough calories? Meat and cheese are fairly dense calorie sources, and one of the biggest problems I've seen in people when they are transitioning over is that they just make the same meals they made with meat but put in only carrots and potatoes, which are much less dense calorie sources than meat (you have to eat a kilo of potatoes for every 300g of beef you eat). So people think they're eating the same amount as they were previously, but are in fact eating half the calories and become tired because they aren't used to counting calories
Recipes are hard lol, I just eat apples and bananas and things whole. And salads obviously:
lettuce, tomatoes, sunflower seeds, green onions, avocado and lemon juice mix
Not very interesting lol
One thing I did really like recently was almond smoothies, which you owe to yourself to try.
- You basically take half cup of almonds - blend with cup of water - add 3 bananas, blend - optionally add some strawberries or kiwi or whatever fruit in the amount you want. I prefer about 5-10 strawberries. - then drink it. My favourite food right now I think
Pretty cheap, very fast, and like 6-800 calories depending on how well I know the cup-->grams conversion -.- High protein and iron as well I guess, although I don't really worry about protein that much - Enough calories --> probably enough protein. But that's an old discussion, and everyone has their own opinions on it, which is cool
In the end everyones going to have their own opinions on diet, and it's such a contentious topic amongst people on both sides of the argument, that these days I try and stay pretty neutral. But I do have to say, the health benefits I personally have experienced from this diet have been very surprising and eye opening, especially when I think how badly depressed I used to become and how severe my allergies were.
P.S I've never liked animals that much. My whole family are crazy about animals (dogs, cats, horses etc) and they all eat meat, so I thought that was a funny little point to end on :p
That sounds like a freaking amazing way to eat to me. If my mom would buy that much fruit for me, I'd have a fruit based diet for sure.
Today I was eating some rotisserie chicken, still testing out a paleo-based eating style. Half-way through, I just thought, this really isn't that good. Hrm. So I'll think of trying a moderately-vegetarian diet for a while.
How do you get your (complete) protein? I'm not doing soy, that's for sure.
On April 12 2011 09:27 EscPlan9 wrote: All fine except for one major assumption: that consumption of dairy has significantly increased from the switch. I infact consume less dairy, especially since I have soy milk instead of regular milk.
Even if dairy consumption has increased for some vegetarians, they still are purchasing a hell of a lot less animal products overall than non-vegetarians.
I cannot tell if you are trolling here, or actually want to argue a point. I think I can speak for most vegetarians here in saying we are not interested in having a full fledged debate on the ethics of vegetarian in a forum. Also, read the notice on the top:
Do not make this a debate on meat eating. You don't need to prove people "wrong" about their eating habits.
Yes, I am making a point - just as vegetarians have been making the point that if you eat fish you are not truly a vegetarian. My point is that if you are a vegetarian, then you are still doing the same thing as a meat-eater - because if you eat eggs or drink milk these cows and chickens still end up at the slaughterhouses once they get old and lay/produce less and are no longer of any use to the farmers.
On April 12 2011 09:51 x-Catalyst wrote: Maybe a picture of our lovely Jinro should be added to the op as well? I know he was vegetarian for quite a while but had to give it up when he moved to Korea considering meat and such is used in many of their dishes.
Yeah korea sounds like one of the worst possible places for food if you don't eat meat. I'm sure there are nutritious options, they're probably just not always convenient
Yeah, unfortunately, Korea isn't exactly the friendliest of places for people on any sort of dietary restriction (not just vegeterianism/veganism, but also kosher and halal restrictions as well). Not impossible to be one in Korea to be sure, but you've definitely got your work cut out for you. It's not necessarily the land animals you have to worry about (since you will know more or less if it's going into your food or not, although Korean food has quite a few dishes containing some sort of meat broth), but the presence of seafood (including shellfish, which becomes problematic for those restricted to a kosher diet) is pretty damn pervasive in a lot of Korean food.
Why be so uptight about the whole thing. I've had vegetarian food once in a while and some of it is actually quite nice (I grew up on soggy, overcooked veggies, hence my hatred of greens). It's not too shabby, but a nice chunk of steak is just too good.
Oh and one of my favourite comedians on the topic of food.
On April 12 2011 09:27 EscPlan9 wrote: All fine except for one major assumption: that consumption of dairy has significantly increased from the switch. I infact consume less dairy, especially since I have soy milk instead of regular milk.
Even if dairy consumption has increased for some vegetarians, they still are purchasing a hell of a lot less animal products overall than non-vegetarians.
I cannot tell if you are trolling here, or actually want to argue a point. I think I can speak for most vegetarians here in saying we are not interested in having a full fledged debate on the ethics of vegetarian in a forum. Also, read the notice on the top:
Do not make this a debate on meat eating. You don't need to prove people "wrong" about their eating habits.
Yes, I am making a point - just as vegetarians have been making the point that if you eat fish you are not truly a vegetarian. My point is that if you are a vegetarian, then you are still doing the same thing as a meat-eater - because if you eat eggs or drink milk these cows and chickens still end up at the slaughterhouses once they get old and lay/produce less and are no longer of any use to the farmers.
Are you not familiar with market systems? If less people consume meat products (vegans/vegetarians) then the industry will produce less. No point in going through all the costs of production, shipping and distribution if the product wont be consumed. Those old cows or chickens go to the slaughterhouse because people consume their meat, among other things.
People who have chosen not to eat meat or/and animal derived products in their diet certainly dont "do the same thing as a meat eater".
On April 12 2011 10:10 night terrors wrote: Are you not familiar with market systems? If less people consume meat products (vegans/vegetarians) then the industry will produce less. No point in going through all the costs of production, shipping and distribution if the product wont be consumed. Those old cows or chickens go to the slaughterhouse because people consume their meat, among other things.
People who have chosen not to eat meat or/and animal derived products in their diet certainly dont "do the same thing as a meat eater".
That's what I'm saying though - vegetarians are still contributing to the system, as even though they are abstaining from meat, they are still giving profit to industries where the animals still end up at the slaughterhouse. It'd be stupid to assume that milk and egg industries aren't linked to the meat industry. It's like buying products from The Body Shop because you don't believe in animal testing, yet ignoring the fact that The Body Shop's parent company is L'Oreal (where all its profits go to), one of the biggest animal testers in the industry.
And that is why I agree with your last sentence - I don't eat meat nor animal derived products (I've been a vegan for three years, vegetarian for nine). And I consider the nine years that I was a vegetarian as very hypocritical - because I was unaware. The OP in this thread has stated that "meat is murder". To be consistent, dairy is also murder.
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
I've always found it weird that eggs are considered vegetarian. In my mind, it's nearly the same thing as meat.
well your a deluded retard then arent you? eggs arent fertlised you gronk cunt
On April 12 2011 10:10 night terrors wrote: Are you not familiar with market systems? If less people consume meat products (vegans/vegetarians) then the industry will produce less. No point in going through all the costs of production, shipping and distribution if the product wont be consumed. Those old cows or chickens go to the slaughterhouse because people consume their meat, among other things.
People who have chosen not to eat meat or/and animal derived products in their diet certainly dont "do the same thing as a meat eater".
That's what I'm saying though - vegetarians are still contributing to the system, as even though they are abstaining from meat, they are still giving profit to industries where the animals still end up at the slaughterhouse. It'd be stupid to assume that milk and egg industries aren't linked to the meat industry. It's like buying products from The Body Shop because you don't believe in animal testing, yet ignoring the fact that The Body Shop's parent company is L'Oreal (where all its profits go to), one of the biggest animal testers in the industry.
And that is why I agree with your last sentence - I don't eat meat nor animal derived products (I've been a vegan for three years, vegetarian for nine). And I consider the nine years that I was a vegetarian as very hypocritical - because I was unaware. The OP in this thread has stated that "meat is murder". To be consistent, dairy is also murder.
I see what you'rse saying, but im worried that saying that vegetarians do the same thing as meat eaters might alienate peopple who might be comencing a process of eating less meat; moreover it might give an impression that is reductive and gives an impression not adequete that which is proposed its talking about.
Regarding dairy: not always. I imagine it might be difficult in large cities, but at least here you can get your eggs, milk and cheese from small dairy farms which keep their animals until they die.
On that line I hope you realize that animal products are present everywhere, literally. On cars, couches, computers, shoes, etc. Im trying to find an image i saw on facebook that showed some of the uses of cows, for which they are killed. This doesnt make illegitimate someone's choice to consdier their consumption habits and make changes. Its certainly not the same thing cutting back and not doing anything at all. If your logic is carried out then we should shut mozilla, turn the computer off and make ourselves cozy in the nearest cave, anything other than that being wrong.
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
I've always found it weird that eggs are considered vegetarian. In my mind, it's nearly the same thing as meat.
well your a deluded retard then arent you? eggs arent fertlised you gronk cunt
Well I guess I would like to share my Vegetarian story with you all
I weighed around 185 earlier in the year around the end of November and I decided to get off my fat ass and start running. By January I have seen a big improvement and I was around 170, I then decided to go Vegetarian not for weight loss, but just to see if I could do it.
It has been I believe 3 1/2 months of not eating meat and I weigh around 150. I am now wearing medium sized shirts for the 1st time in my life, and I got a girlfriend 2 months ago. My mechanics in SC2 are better and I understand most match ups and I am proud of my macro.
I do think becoming Vegetarian has helped me lose weight due to fast food restriction, I no longer eat as much fast food as I used to. Instead of getting a entire meal when I go out, I just usually get fries and a drink which fills me up now.
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
I've always found it weird that eggs are considered vegetarian. In my mind, it's nearly the same thing as meat.
well your a deluded retard then arent you? eggs arent fertlised you gronk cunt
He wrote "nearly the same thing". You're the deluded one if you don't realise that male chicks and hens after they are no longer productive aren't killed in the same way:
This is what was written:
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I take a relative view.
"Vegetarians" annoy me. If you eat dairy you aren't an animal lover, you just love some animals (but not chickens and cows). But I guess it's better than nothing.[/quote]
On April 12 2011 10:26 night terrors wrote: Regarding dairy: not always. I imagine it might be difficult in large cities, but at least here you can get your eggs, milk and cheese from small dairy farms which keep their animals until they die.
This I have zero issue with. But chances are if you buy your dairy from the supermarket (which I presume is likely the case for 99% of people here), then it is unlikely that the animal was kept until they died.
On April 12 2011 10:25 shwaffles wrote: Phototropian>>>Vegetarian + Show Spoiler +
There are actually fellows that only eat fruits and mushrooms and nothing that involves an organism dieing (I forgot what the name for that is, and I do not know if it is actually possible to get your proteins living like that).
Pescatarian here. I was raised that way, I'm fit and healthy, I'm happy.
I get pissed off when my parents try and pull the 'We're vegetarian therefore we're better card.' For one, we're not vegetarian, and vegetarianism isn't better or worse than eating meat.
But yeah, I don't think I've ever eaten meat, besides one meat pastie I had accidentally because I thought it was vegetarian. I don't have any desire to eat meat, it doesn't appeal to me at all.
No-one gives me a hard time because of it. Most people are just like "Oh really? I didn't know that." and then let it go.
On April 12 2011 10:25 shwaffles wrote: Phototropian>>>Vegetarian + Show Spoiler +
There are actually fellows that only eat fruits and mushrooms and nothing that involves an organism dieing (I forgot what the name for that is, and I do not know if it is actually possible to get your proteins living like that).
Fruitarians. I have a couple of friends who live on this diet and they are healthy (as far as I'm aware).
On April 12 2011 10:25 shwaffles wrote: Phototropian>>>Vegetarian + Show Spoiler +
There are actually fellows that only eat fruits and mushrooms and nothing that involves an organism dieing (I forgot what the name for that is, and I do not know if it is actually possible to get your proteins living like that).
Fruitarians. I have a couple of friends who live on this diet and they are healthy (as far as I'm aware).
Along the lines of this the cooks of the vegan restaurant i usually go to near uni are on a raw food diet (mostly, it seems) and the problem i see in this is that some health issues are not likely to be seen just now, but a few years down the line.
I've been vegetarian for almost two years now. When I first started eating a diverse vegetarian diet, I had a large influx of energy.
I actually read recently the nutrients and minerals that vegetarians and vegans should ensure they're getting: iron, calcium, protein, fatty acids, zinc and Vitamin B12.
I really enjoy the food I eat. I love trying different foods and cuisines all the time, my favorites include: Jamaican, Indian, Thai, and even some Southern American.(when done right!)
On April 12 2011 03:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: I am vegetarian, not vegan. My family is too vegetarian. I am ok with this lifestyle really. Some of my friends do tease me sometimes but it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I do eat eggs (I know fish by some people is classified as vegetarian although I don't eat fish, is egg too?) but not in physical shape. Only in cakes, chocolates, confectioneries etc. For my kids, I will probably tell them to be vegetarian but I won't assert the decision by myself, I will let them choose, only at a suitable age though, not 12 or less lol.
Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
I've always found it weird that eggs are considered vegetarian. In my mind, it's nearly the same thing as meat.
well your a deluded retard then arent you? eggs arent fertlised you gronk cunt
... then masturbation is nearly the same thing as mass murder...
On April 12 2011 10:43 Brethern wrote: I considered trying vegetarian, but my blood type requires me to eat red meat in order to be healthy.
That also leads me into the question. If you found out that you needed red meat in order to be healthy would you switch to being an omnivore?
Yes, if it was the only option. But for the majority of people - the only vitamin you need that you can't get from a purely vegan diet is b12, which can be fortified in soy milk or vegemite, if you don't take supplements for example.
What's the basis for you requiring red meat? Is this a medical opinion as the only option?
I empathize with the vegans of this thread... Some of these posts are the dumbest things I've seen on all of Team Liquid (Thank God that mods are on it...).
On April 12 2011 10:25 shwaffles wrote: Phototropian>>>Vegetarian + Show Spoiler +
There are actually fellows that only eat fruits and mushrooms and nothing that involves an organism dieing (I forgot what the name for that is, and I do not know if it is actually possible to get your proteins living like that).
Fruitarians. I have a couple of friends who live on this diet and they are healthy (as far as I'm aware).
Along the lines of this the cooks of the vegan restaurant i usually go to near uni are on a raw food diet (mostly, it seems) and the problem i see in this is that some health issues are not likely to be seen just now, but a few years down the line.
From what I read and heard on the radio in interviews and stuff, some nutritionists seem to believe that your body naturally learns what is in your food. You will get notified through cravings for something, if you are missing anything needed. So I suppose it could very well be that nothing bad will ever happen to those cooks, if they actually like their diet and are not forcing themselves.
On April 12 2011 10:25 shwaffles wrote: Phototropian>>>Vegetarian + Show Spoiler +
There are actually fellows that only eat fruits and mushrooms and nothing that involves an organism dieing (I forgot what the name for that is, and I do not know if it is actually possible to get your proteins living like that).
Fruitarians. I have a couple of friends who live on this diet and they are healthy (as far as I'm aware).
Along the lines of this the cooks of the vegan restaurant i usually go to near uni are on a raw food diet (mostly, it seems) and the problem i see in this is that some health issues are not likely to be seen just now, but a few years down the line.
From what I read and heard on the radio in interviews and stuff, some nutritionists seem to believe that your body naturally learns what is in your food. You will get notified through cravings for something, if you are missing anything needed. So I suppose it could very well be that nothing bad will ever happen to those cooks, if they do not force themselves on their weird diet, but actually like it.
Yeah, Ive felt that the body has a very peculiar of regulating its needs, the thing is that it may happen that some diets simply arent for the human body, not saying that raw-food diets or fruit-based diets are not for the human body, and when people suscribe to these diets in order to fortify their individuality they sacrifice that knowledge the body has to let you know what its missing.
On April 12 2011 10:43 Brethern wrote: I considered trying vegetarian, but my blood type requires me to eat red meat in order to be healthy.
That also leads me into the question. If you found out that you needed red meat in order to be healthy would you switch to being an omnivore?
Yes, if it was the only option. But for the majority of people - the only vitamin you need that you can't get from a purely vegan diet is b12, which can be fortified in soy milk or vegemite, if you don't take supplements for example.
What's the basis for you requiring red meat? Is this a medical opinion as the only option?
It basically the dietary requirements of the blood type. I wouldn't die from lack of meat but I would not be healthy either.
On April 12 2011 11:17 Brethern wrote: It basically the dietary requirements of the blood type. I wouldn't die from lack of meat but I would not be healthy either.
My fiance and I once bought a car magnet that said "I <3 Barnyard Animals" on it because we thought it would be funny to publicly declare our love of having sex with animals . Upon exiting the store, we realized it was vegan propaganda, and promptly threw it in the trash.
On April 12 2011 11:30 SonicTitan wrote: My fiance and I once bought a car magnet that said "I <3 Barnyard Animals" on it because we thought it would be funny to publicly declare our love of having sex with animals . Upon exiting the store, we realized it was vegan propaganda, and promptly threw it in the trash.
True story.
That gotta hurt, hope you didn't take it too hard.
Vegan for years here Ever since I was a little kid (9 I think) and I really thought about where animals came from I never ate another one. I really believe that the number of vegans and vegan friendly places are increasing and that years from now the world will be very animal friendly
On April 12 2011 11:30 SonicTitan wrote: My fiance and I once bought a car magnet that said "I <3 Barnyard Animals" on it because we thought it would be funny to publicly declare our love of having sex with animals . Upon exiting the store, we realized it was vegan propaganda, and promptly threw it in the trash.
I'd like to ask the thread starter or the mods to compile the links on the first post. I think its really important to have resources on diet, health, precautions, resources, recipes, etc.
I've been vegan for a couple years now. I love it, and it's much, much easier to do than you'd think. Well, if you know how to cook. I don't tell people about my dietary practices though, since the last thing I need is to be argued with / preached at / condescended to / get similarly pigeonholed as something I'm not. I'm vegan because of the environmental impact of factory farming, and it's much easier to just cut out animal products altogether than keep meticulous tabs on where this and that ingredient of this and that dish came from. Oh, and it forced me to actually think about what I'm eating, and become much healthier as a result. I have zero problem with (responsibly) hunted meat, or actually sustainable agriculture.
The stigma that vegetarians/vegans have is very similar to the sort of stigma that atheists have, in my opinion. Very undeserved, frustrating, and a veritable hostility factory.
On April 12 2011 11:31 kellymilkies wrote: I was a Vegetarian for a year and a half!! Then I stopped.
T.T
Kelly nooo! Come back to us! :p
On April 12 2011 12:26 Dalguno wrote: Two questions for me.
If you've felt better with your health since being vegan/vegetarian/pescetarian (sp?), how long did it take for that to happen?
Also, do any of you vegetarians drink protein shakes?
For me, I don't necessarily feel "better," or if I do it would be hard to quantify because I haven't had meat in so long.. But if I eat crappy (too much pizza, junk etc.) I find myself craving fresh vegetables and I feel a lot better after a good meal :p
I don't touch protein shakes, I know I get enough. All you need in a day is 1g protein/kg body mass, which is not a whole lot really, not compared to the average north american diet anyways.
On April 12 2011 12:26 Dalguno wrote: Two questions for me.
If you've felt better with your health since being vegan/vegetarian/pescetarian (sp?), how long did it take for that to happen?
Also, do any of you vegetarians drink protein shakes?
I guess it really depends. After I turned vegan, I want to say I felt different almost immediately after. I don't know how to explain how I felt, but it was a good feeling. I didn't feel as sluggish as I did before. That could also be because instead of just cutting out meat/dairy/etc. I also cut out a lot of junk food too.
And as for protein shakes, nah. I eat a lot of seeds/nuts, beans/legumes, tofu, brown rice, vegetables that have protein, and other things like whole wheat bread and many others. But sometimes if I feel as if I might be low, or just feel like a little more, I like to make fruit smoothies with a little soy protein powder in it. It has sort of a walnutty flavor
On April 12 2011 12:26 Dalguno wrote: Two questions for me.
If you've felt better with your health since being vegan/vegetarian/pescetarian (sp?), how long did it take for that to happen?
Also, do any of you vegetarians drink protein shakes?
I guess it really depends. After I turned vegan, I want to say I felt different almost immediately after. I don't know how to explain how I felt, but it was a good feeling. I didn't feel as sluggish as I did before. That could also be because instead of just cutting out meat/dairy/etc. I also cut out a lot of junk food too.
And as for protein shakes, nah. I eat a lot of seeds/nuts, beans/legumes, tofu, brown rice, vegetables that have protein, and other things like whole wheat bread and many others. But sometimes if I feel as if I might be low, or just feel like a little more, I like to make fruit smoothies with a little soy protein powder in it. It has sort of a walnutty flavor
I remember when first adopting the vegetarian diet I felt hungry more often. That hasn't been an issue in many years though as I got used to the changes, and ate healthier all around too.
I have protein shakes sometimes. I also once or twice a week take a multi-vitamin as a supplement. I haven't been paying as much attention to my nutrition lately since I've been really busy, so I take them "just in case".
I'm what pretentious people like to call a "conscientious omnivore." I believe in eating meat, but I don't believe in eating meat indiscriminately. I believe that human beings have a relationship with animals that isn't the same as our relationship with other human beings, but still requires a certain (fairly high) amount of care and respect. Consequently, because of how things in the world currently are, I'm a practical vegetarian, and have been for almost two years now (although I've eaten my share of authentic farm-raised meat products when I've been able to).
My point is, though, that I absolutely support vegetarians of all kinds. While I disagree philosophically with certain kinds of vegetarianism and veganism (and I've studied it extensively- "Philosophy of Food" ftw!), it isn't grounds for confrontation, but respect and tolerance.
I do have one issue, though... as someone who cares deeply about the meaning of foods, I am greatly disturbed by any kind of highly processed industrial food (although it is unavoidable in our culture; eventually I will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak). I get really uncomfortable with how excited many people get over vegan protein substitutes and the like simply because they are often produced in the same way and packed with the same nasty things as, say, a McDonalds hamburger. Just a though, vegetarian friends.
The butter could be easily substituted with olive oil, and the chicken stock substituted with vegetable stock, but I don't know a good vegan substitute for the bechamel used to bind the stuffing for the mushrooms. Scratch that, it seems that you can use any non-dairy milk to substitute for the liquid dairy in the bechamel.
Me: I'm on something called "the warrior diet". I eat 500g of meat or fish each day. Why? Because I want my 2g of protein per kg. I plan on being a vegetarian around my 40s as it won't be necessary for my body anymore to perform sports-wise. I will stay away from veganism, as the mortality rate is above those of meat eaters, vegetarianism having the lowest. My eating habits have been challenged on animal cruelty, but after reading Peter Singer and doing some research the conclusion is, that the only reason why meat eating is bad in a moral sense is the environment. Having said that, I would be the first to buy petri-dish meat or protein rich algae food. Sadly, those are still a little ways off into the future.
Questions: During research for my dietary choices I came across the observation, that vegetarians adhere to the classic food pyramid which overemphasizes carbohydrates in a major way. Due to this, there are health concerns connected to vegetarianism which are unnecessary. So question is, what is ya'll weight/height and how did it change once you became a vegetarian? What is your caloric intake per day? Do you use any supplements? Did your doctor make any comments on your health related to your diet?
My wife is a vegetarian and I am a supporter, basically I eat meat once or twice a week in the form of a hamburger or what not.
I feel weak. I don't support eating meat of animals, the only reason I do so is because it is tasty and easy, being vegetarian it can be quite difficult to eat fastfoods etc. downtown.
I do not respect vegetarians that are vocal about being about destroying life by eating meat, but I despise the people who criticize vegetarians as a whole even more.
Though I am not a vegetarian, I rarely eat meat mainly because I simply do not find it to be that tasty when eaten often. I do not my best to avoid meat because the only three types of meat I have available to me are pig, chicken, and cattle (for a low price) whereas veggies and gains are so much cheaper and you can create so much more with it. But on the other hand, I spent much more time looking at vegetarian recipes rather than meat recipes.
On April 12 2011 19:33 frontliner2 wrote: being vegetarian it can be quite difficult to eat fastfoods etc. downtown.
lol thats like the lamest excuse i've ever heard. dont get me wrong, I could never imagine being a vegetarian myself. but if you have an ethical problem with the food industry, then "its hard to eat fast food" should never be the reason why you dont do it...
On April 12 2011 20:05 Zafrumi wrote: yeah, but fast food? come on... you give up on a moral principal of yours to eat a goddamn mcdonalds hamburger? thats just...
Yeah, I really have to agree with this. If you're bending the rules of your own principles, it had better be something really, really worth it (i.e., this burger had better be made from the best USDA Prime Kobe/Wagyu beef with truffles and gold leaf somehow incorporated into it (okay, I'm exaggerating, but you get my point)).
Not vegan/vegetarian myself, but I hardly ever go to McDonalds, though it helps that I live in a big city where there are almost too many better options to count.
I'm one of those who keep trying to become vegetarian but fails. Nothing to do with the taste, vegetarian food is awesome. The big problem is that it's hard as hell to make/buy good vegetarian food compared to unhealthy stuff.
It's 10x easier to just throw a beef in the pan with olive oil and some simple spices than it is to try to cook one of those awesome indian curry filled vegetables that I don't even know the name of.
I've been cooking for over an year, and found it's a general rule that making unhealthy food is just easy. Cooking stuff that tastes awesome but is unhealth is ridiculously easy, anyone can do it. Cooking stuff that is just healthy, but doesn't taste great, that is easy too. The problem is trying to cook stuff that is both healthy and taste good. It's too hard and time consuming. The real good vegetarian meals have like 10 or 15 spices to it. It's hard to get it right.
I do avoid meat as much as I can. But I with sometimes I wish didn't get lazy and just fry a steak because it's easier. Just like the one I just made yesterday for today's lunch
Any tips for people trying to cook simple vegetarian dishes that both taste great and are just as easy to make as frying a steak? ^^
On April 12 2011 19:33 frontliner2 wrote: My wife is a vegetarian and I am a supporter, basically I eat meat once or twice a week in the form of a hamburger or what not.
I feel weak. I don't support eating meat of animals, the only reason I do so is because it is tasty and easy, being vegetarian it can be quite difficult to eat fastfoods etc. downtown.
If you only eat beef once a week then 1 cow should be enough to maintain your diet for years. That's not too much of a burden. You kill far more animals just by accident.
On April 12 2011 20:13 VIB wrote: I'm one of those who keep trying to become vegetarian but fails. Nothing to do with the taste, vegetarian food is awesome. The big problem is that it's hard as hell to make/buy good vegetarian food compared to unhealthy stuff.
It's 10x easier to just throw a beef in the pan with olive oil and some simple spices than it is to try to cook one of those awesome indian curry filled vegetables that I don't even know the name of.
I've been cooking for over an year, and found it's a general rule that making unhealthy food is just easy. Cooking stuff that tastes awesome but is unhealth is ridiculously easy, anyone can do it. Cooking stuff that is just healthy, but doesn't taste great, that is easy too. The problem is trying to cook stuff that is both healthy and taste good. It's too hard and time consuming. The real good vegetarian meals have like 10 or 15 spices to it. It's hard to get it right.
I do avoid meat as much as I can. But I with sometimes I wish didn't get lazy and just fry a steak because it's easier. Just like the one I just made yesterday for today's lunch
Any tips for people trying to cook simple vegetarian dishes that both taste great and are just as easy to make as frying a steak? ^^
Vego Snacks: -Wrap broccoli up in a foil package with olive oil, salt, pepper and garlic (if you want) and chuck it in the oven. (any baked veggie are easy, not extremely quick though) -2 minute noodles (mi goreng is vegan) -Grilled cheese sandwiches
Once a week i search the internet for new stuff to eat, so once you get a sort of repertoire of quick easy foods you can whip them up in an instant.
On April 12 2011 11:31 kellymilkies wrote: I was a Vegetarian for a year and a half!! Then I stopped.
T.T
Why!? You should definitely give it another whirl.
Being a Singaporean vegetarian is pretty challenging.....especially when most of the cuisines there have meat (in one form or another, does not have to be actual meat, could even be a soup base such as pork, chicken, fish) and the best tasting dishes are meat based (eg. Chicken rice, prata, Nasi biryani, laksa).
Of course, it isn't all lost hope. Alot of Coffee shops nowadays tend to have at least one vegetarian store.
But then for both meat eater and veges.....there's always durians
On April 12 2011 11:31 kellymilkies wrote: I was a Vegetarian for a year and a half!! Then I stopped.
T.T
Why!? You should definitely give it another whirl.
Being a Singaporean vegetarian is pretty challenging.....especially when most of the cuisines there have meat (in one form or another, does not have to be actual meat, could even be a soup base such as pork, chicken, fish) and the best tasting dishes are meat based (eg. Chicken rice, prata, Nasi biryani, laksa).
Of course, it isn't all lost hope. Alot of Coffee shops nowadays tend to have at least one vegetarian store.
But then for both meat eater and veges.....there's always durians
Yeah thats true. I'm going to indonesia to visit my grandparents soon so i'm dreading finding food over there.
I loved this pic when I found it, I hope others find it amusing too:
I eat everything, but my wife is a vegetarian. She has no problem with me eating meat, fortunately. Personally I think that I love meat far too much to make the swap; I adore all the meats of the rainbow. Sticky ribs, sausages, chicken wings, beef, bacon, fish, crustaceans...
No problems at home, but we've run into.... "difficulties" eating out at restaurants. I wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for her, but most restaurants have a truly awful number of vegetarian choices. It's surprising how baised most places are towards meat dishes; often there's only a tiny handful of options to choose from. I'm glad we're in the UK and not the US though, as it was even worse when we were over there - you US guys really hate giving veggie options
I tried going veggie once or twice for a fortnight or so, but I just got bored with what I was eating and found myself lusting after a rack of ribs or some sausages or something. I may have unwittingly gone longer without eating meat and not noticed it, but when you CAN'T eat meat it then becomes the forbidden fruit. Instead I'm simply making sure I get all my meat from responsible suppliers who treat their animals well. A big thumbs up to those of you who LIKE eating meat but have managed to cut it out of their diets (you get no cookie if you didn't like meat in the first place )
Even though being a vegetarian is very expensive in a first world nation for most, this meal is very cheap and nutritious Dal is really cheap, just red lentils, onions, tumeric, curry powder (other spices work and will probably do better) garlic, oil, and rice. It is loaded with protein, fiber, and contains little fat.
Unlike many western meals where the source of taste comes from salt, sugar, or fats, lots of Indian meals source of taste comes from the spices which has little nutritional value (thought it yields some other excellent benefits) but it takes the very bland, nutritious beans and turns it into a tasty meal.
I use to make this for my parents friends who wanted help with dieting. Money well earned for such a simple meal.
I have a cousin here in the US who works with a lot of vegetarians (he is in biological research). It's difficult because choices for vegetarians are mostly salads and pasta, which get tiring and monotonous after a while. Many just can't keep it up.
Strict Hindus and Buddhists are vegetarians so there are better choices if you know how to cook certain Indian dishes like above or even certain Chinese dishes. It's certainly easier to be an Indian vegetarian with the wealth of tasty dishes they have.
On April 13 2011 01:29 Hairy wrote: I loved this pic when I found it, I hope others find it amusing too:
I eat everything, but my wife is a vegetarian. She has no problem with me eating meat, fortunately. Personally I think that I love meat far too much to make the swap; I adore all the meats of the rainbow. Sticky ribs, sausages, chicken wings, beef, bacon, fish, crustaceans...
No problems at home, but we've run into.... "difficulties" eating out at restaurants. I wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for her, but most restaurants have a truly awful number of vegetarian choices. It's surprising how baised most places are towards meat dishes; often there's only a tiny handful of options to choose from. I'm glad we're in the UK and not the US though, as it was even worse when we were over there - you US guys really hate giving veggie options
I tried going veggie once or twice for a fortnight or so, but I just got bored with what I was eating and found myself lusting after a rack of ribs or some sausages or something. I may have unwittingly gone longer without eating meat and not noticed it, but when you CAN'T eat meat it then becomes the forbidden fruit. Instead I'm simply making sure I get all my meat from responsible suppliers who treat their animals well. A big thumbs up to those of you who LIKE eating meat but have managed to cut it out of their diets (you get no cookie if you didn't like meat in the first place )
My mother is vegetarian, also it's the buddhist type vegetarian which means vegetarian -scallions,leeks,and I believe onions I think....w/e strong smelling vegetables. LOL it was pretty tough on me making meal plans in the beginning but eventually it's not that bad. I eat way too little vegetable and fruits though so I don't mind changing my ratio to something more prefereable hahaha.
On April 13 2011 01:29 Hairy wrote: ...I'm glad we're in the UK and not the US though, as it was even worse when we were over there - you US guys really hate giving veggie options
This is so true. I'm a veggie in the US, and I'm really thankful that I live in a pretty progressive area of the Northwest, because the restaurants in my area are generally good about having at least something for me to eat, but if I go outside of my specific area I'm basically SOL at most restaurants. :s
I eat a mostly vegetarian diet. I have no problems with meat, I'd just prefer not to eat it most of the time. Sometimes I'll go home and my non-vegetarian family will think I need more protein (I don't.) and try to buy me a lot of seafood every now and then I'll just eat what they eat. Eating fish every day for a week is very, very boring.
While I'm home I also do most of the cooking so while they dictate the meals I'm the one that actually cooks them. I have no issues cooking meats and will, even if I'm not eating it, taste it as any cook should.
While I'm at school, though, I am a mostly vegetarian. I will eat meat maybe once every two months.
I ate meat nearly every day for nearly every meal for the first 18 meals of my life. Becoming a (mostly) vegetarian has not been difficult, and I find myself feeling generally better as well. Try it out if you're thinking about it.
On April 13 2011 04:37 andrewlt wrote: I have a cousin here in the US who works with a lot of vegetarians (he is in biological research). It's difficult because choices for vegetarians are mostly salads and pasta, which get tiring and monotonous after a while. Many just can't keep it up.
This seems like a quite misinformed, yet stereotypical view on a vegetarian's diet. Though you're right about vegetarians enjoying a wider variety of "non-american" meals. I remember when I lived in California there was this great Vegetarian Chinese restaurant. Over 50 choices - and ALL vegetarian or vegan!
On April 13 2011 05:34 Brotkrumen wrote: As my question wasn't noticed:
What do you vegetarians weigh and what is your height? Did your doctor ever say anything regarding health?
Been Vegi for about 18 years (since I was 16 ) Both of our children a Girl 11 years old and a boy 4 years old have been vegi all their lifes I am about 5 foot 8 inches tall Im around 155-165 lbs
My wife has a Masters in nutritional sciences, she stopped her doctoral work less than a year from getting her PHD.
I state that just to say I follow her advice when it comes to eating right and getting what my kids and I need.
On April 13 2011 05:34 Brotkrumen wrote: As my question wasn't noticed:
What do you vegetarians weigh and what is your height? Did your doctor ever say anything regarding health?
Been Vegi for about 18 years (since I was 16 ) Both of our children a Girl 11 years old and a boy 4 years old have been vegi all their lifes I am about 5 foot 8 inches tall Im around 155-165 lbs
My wife has a Masters in nutritional sciences, she stopped her doctoral work less than a year from getting her PHD.
I state that just to say I follow her advice when it comes to eating right and getting what my kids and I need.
Sounds good. What height are your parents, if I may ask?
On April 13 2011 05:34 Brotkrumen wrote: As my question wasn't noticed:
What do you vegetarians weight and what is your height? Did your doctor ever say anything regarding health?
Vegetarian for about almost 2 years now, 5'10", ~160 lbs
I became vegetarian the day I moved out to go to university, and for the first month I dropped a little weight. Then I started partying (ie drinking) on a fairly regular basis, and gained it all back haha. And right now, with exams, my diet has been nearly entirely pizza and energy drinks, so I've got my work cut out for me when I go back home at the end of the month..
Interestingly enough, I haven't really had a check-up or anything since becoming vegetarian. However, I donate blood on a pretty regular basis, and last time they tested my blood iron I had a higher iron content than my meat-eating friends.
For the first three years of our relationship, my girlfriend was a vegetarian. It's funny, she actually felt embarrassed for some reason and told me and my friends that her stomach couldn't digest meat proteins, but it turns out she just cared too much for animals
Anyway, she never tried to persuade me to be a vegetarian, and I never tried to persuade her to eat meat. Then one day, out of the blue, she decided that she didn't want to be a vegetarian anymore, and to this day couldn't be happier with that decision.
Like I said previously in this thread, I really respect vegetarians/vegans for their decision. A lot of them don't act like it's difficult to entirely avoid meat products but I don't buy it one bit. It would be so hard! I can't even imagine it. Maybe I'm just a picky eater ^^
My opinion is, we certainly exploit the animals we breed, raise, and kill to eat. Is this unethical? Perhaps. But I don't think it's as unethical as a lot of vegans/vegetarians make it out to be. It sucks that profit has induced radical change in modern farming communities to cut expenses which generally creates horrible living conditions for the animals. I wish there was some regulation in that regard. But "good" farms exist, where cattle are raised fairly well. My grandpa had an organic farm where he raised 30 or so cattle at a time and they all grazed pastures every single day, and man were they delicious.
I think non-vegetarianism can be conducted ethically, and even when it's not conducted ethically, well at least the victims aren't humans. (Pretty much a cop-out argument, I know)
On April 12 2011 20:13 VIB wrote: I'm one of those who keep trying to become vegetarian but fails. Nothing to do with the taste, vegetarian food is awesome. The big problem is that it's hard as hell to make/buy good vegetarian food compared to unhealthy stuff.
It's 10x easier to just throw a beef in the pan with olive oil and some simple spices than it is to try to cook one of those awesome indian curry filled vegetables that I don't even know the name of.
I've been cooking for over an year, and found it's a general rule that making unhealthy food is just easy. Cooking stuff that tastes awesome but is unhealth is ridiculously easy, anyone can do it. Cooking stuff that is just healthy, but doesn't taste great, that is easy too. The problem is trying to cook stuff that is both healthy and taste good. It's too hard and time consuming. The real good vegetarian meals have like 10 or 15 spices to it. It's hard to get it right.
I do avoid meat as much as I can. But I with sometimes I wish didn't get lazy and just fry a steak because it's easier. Just like the one I just made yesterday for today's lunch
Any tips for people trying to cook simple vegetarian dishes that both taste great and are just as easy to make as frying a steak? ^^
For the taste problem I kinda base everything around diced onions, celery and green bell peppers in a 2:1:1 ratio. I fry that in a pan or wok with olive oil, and salt and pepper it.
I start the frying with the onions alone at first, before putting in the rest. I think I always like it most when everything is fried until all water is gone, everything is shriveled up and is nearly starting to get burned and the onions get really sweet, but others tell me I'm an idiot. If it's not fried long enough, whatever dish you want to use it for tastes bland and I also kinda hate it if I can still feel the texture of the diced onions and bell pepper snippets in the dish later.
This base removes all need for those packet sauce mixes out of a factory. I mix the stuff with some cooked or stir fried vegetables and serve the vegetables with rice out of the rice cooker or cook some noodles and mix them into the pan with the vegetables, or I make a pot of beans or some kind of curry.
Spices, I only have black pepper, garlic, soy sauce and Tabasco regularly in the kitchen. There is also parsley, thyme, lovage, dill, oregano, tarragon, summer savory, laurel somewhere in the cupboard and sometimes I have a pot of fresh basil (I don't know if the words make sense because I had to use a translator to get English names for the herbs). I mostly use only salt and black pepper and all other stuff is for emergencies, when I cook bland meals and try to rescue it somehow.
On April 13 2011 05:34 Brotkrumen wrote: As my question wasn't noticed:
What do you vegetarians weigh and what is your height? Did your doctor ever say anything regarding health?
Been Vegi for about 18 years (since I was 16 ) Both of our children a Girl 11 years old and a boy 4 years old have been vegi all their lifes I am about 5 foot 8 inches tall Im around 155-165 lbs
My wife has a Masters in nutritional sciences, she stopped her doctoral work less than a year from getting her PHD.
I state that just to say I follow her advice when it comes to eating right and getting what my kids and I need.
I'm not a vegan myself, but when I saw this thread I had to post because I'm actually very curious about a vegetarian's diet. Say you're strictly a vegan (no milk, cheese, eggs, fish etc) and your diet is vegetables, fruits and grains. To my knowledge, every "complete" protein is now gone with regards to amino acids.
First question is: does this actually matter? Can this lead to any deficiencies? As a weight trainer myself I have been taught that humans need complete sources of protein to build muscle. While this is probably true, I would think that this applies to human growth in most regards. Would a child never fed a complete source of protein be underweight and smaller than one that had been eating meat/dairy? I heard a rumour from a friend who lives in Shanghai that in the poorer parts of China the people are generally shorter and smaller due to them only eating rice, I have no idea if it's actually true or not.
Second question is a followup. If this is actually true, what kind of precautions can vegans take to avoid this and ensure healthy and normal growth? I once spoke with a vegan who was an absolute stick who told me he mixed several different vegetables together to create a whole set of amino acids, but since vegetables are simply not even close to protein dense, is the amount you can create and eat enough?
I'm also very curious to if any of the vegans here are somewhat muscular or have strong physiques. And/or if you workout, what are your lift stats?
On April 13 2011 05:34 Brotkrumen wrote: As my question wasn't noticed:
What do you vegetarians weigh and what is your height? Did your doctor ever say anything regarding health?
Been Vegi for about 18 years (since I was 16 ) Both of our children a Girl 11 years old and a boy 4 years old have been vegi all their lifes I am about 5 foot 8 inches tall Im around 155-165 lbs
My wife has a Masters in nutritional sciences, she stopped her doctoral work less than a year from getting her PHD.
I state that just to say I follow her advice when it comes to eating right and getting what my kids and I need.
I'm not a vegan myself, but when I saw this thread I had to post because I'm actually very curious about a vegetarian's diet. Say you're strictly a vegan (no milk, cheese, eggs, fish etc) and your diet is vegetables, fruits and grains. To my knowledge, every "complete" protein is now gone with regards to amino acids.
First question is: does this actually matter? Can this lead to any deficiencies? As a weight trainer myself I have been taught that humans need complete sources of protein to build muscle. While this is probably true, I would think that this applies to human growth in most regards. Would a child never fed a complete source of protein be underweight and smaller than one that had been eating meat/dairy? I heard a rumour from a friend who lives in Shanghai that in the poorer parts of China the people are generally shorter and smaller due to them only eating rice, I have no idea if it's actually true or not.
Second question is a followup. If this is actually true, what kind of precautions can vegans take to avoid this and ensure healthy and normal growth? I once spoke with a vegan who was an absolute stick who told me he mixed several different vegetables together to create a whole set of amino acids, but since vegetables are simply not even close to protein dense, is the amount you can create and eat enough?
I'm also very curious to if any of the vegans here are somewhat muscular or have strong physiques. And/or if you workout, what are your lift stats?
Perhaps to shed some light on the matter:
There are 20 basic amino acids. 8 of these amino acids are considered to be "essential" - they cannot be synthesized in the body, and must be consumed directly. The other 12 amino acids can be synthesized using the other amino acids as precursor and intermediate molecules. So long as you vary your diet to include all these amino acids, you will be fine. The body doesn't need *that* much protein, only about 1g/kg body mass per day.
When cells assemble proteins, they do it from individual amino acids, one at a time to build a polymer/polypeptide. It makes no difference where those amino acids come from; protein consumed in meat or in any other source will be catabolized into individual amino acids just the same.
As far as stunted growth goes, there are other issues to consider as well. There's caloric intake, vitamins, etc. But you're entirely right, a child that does not get all the amino acids will most definitely have adverse effects with regards to growth and development.
On April 13 2011 05:34 Brotkrumen wrote: As my question wasn't noticed:
What do you vegetarians weigh and what is your height? Did your doctor ever say anything regarding health?
Been Vegi for about 18 years (since I was 16 ) Both of our children a Girl 11 years old and a boy 4 years old have been vegi all their lifes I am about 5 foot 8 inches tall Im around 155-165 lbs
My wife has a Masters in nutritional sciences, she stopped her doctoral work less than a year from getting her PHD.
I state that just to say I follow her advice when it comes to eating right and getting what my kids and I need.
I'm not a vegan myself, but when I saw this thread I had to post because I'm actually very curious about a vegetarian's diet. Say you're strictly a vegan (no milk, cheese, eggs, fish etc) and your diet is vegetables, fruits and grains. To my knowledge, every "complete" protein is now gone with regards to amino acids.
First question is: does this actually matter? Can this lead to any deficiencies? As a weight trainer myself I have been taught that humans need complete sources of protein to build muscle. While this is probably true, I would think that this applies to human growth in most regards. Would a child never fed a complete source of protein be underweight and smaller than one that had been eating meat/dairy? I heard a rumour from a friend who lives in Shanghai that in the poorer parts of China the people are generally shorter and smaller due to them only eating rice, I have no idea if it's actually true or not.
Second question is a followup. If this is actually true, what kind of precautions can vegans take to avoid this and ensure healthy and normal growth? I once spoke with a vegan who was an absolute stick who told me he mixed several different vegetables together to create a whole set of amino acids, but since vegetables are simply not even close to protein dense, is the amount you can create and eat enough?
I'm also very curious to if any of the vegans here are somewhat muscular or have strong physiques. And/or if you workout, what are your lift stats?
Perhaps to shed some light on the matter:
There are 20 basic amino acids. 8 of these amino acids are considered to be "essential" - they cannot be synthesized in the body, and must be consumed directly. The other 12 amino acids can be synthesized using the either amino acids as precursor molecules. So long as you vary your diet to include all these amino acids, you will be fine. The body doesn't need *that* much protein, only about 1g/kg body mass per day.
When cells assemble proteins, they do it from individual amino acids, one at a time to build a polymer/polypeptide. It makes no difference where those amino acids come from; protein consumed in meat or in any other source will be catabolized into individual amino acids just the same. As far as stunted growth goes, there are other issues to consider as well. There's caloric intake, vitamins, etc.
Ok, I guess it makes sense that you can cycle foods to get all your amino acids, but in this case they are not all present at the same time and your body still cannot build muscle tissue, right? Obviously to accurately wage if a lack of complete proteins caused stunted growth, there are many variables. But let's assume you have two children intaking the same kcal everyday, same macro nutrient buildup, but in one the proteins are complete and in the other they are incomplete. Would this actually result in stunted growth?
On April 13 2011 05:34 Brotkrumen wrote: As my question wasn't noticed:
What do you vegetarians weigh and what is your height? Did your doctor ever say anything regarding health?
Been Vegi for about 18 years (since I was 16 ) Both of our children a Girl 11 years old and a boy 4 years old have been vegi all their lifes I am about 5 foot 8 inches tall Im around 155-165 lbs
My wife has a Masters in nutritional sciences, she stopped her doctoral work less than a year from getting her PHD.
I state that just to say I follow her advice when it comes to eating right and getting what my kids and I need.
I'm not a vegan myself, but when I saw this thread I had to post because I'm actually very curious about a vegetarian's diet. Say you're strictly a vegan (no milk, cheese, eggs, fish etc) and your diet is vegetables, fruits and grains. To my knowledge, every "complete" protein is now gone with regards to amino acids.
First question is: does this actually matter? Can this lead to any deficiencies? As a weight trainer myself I have been taught that humans need complete sources of protein to build muscle. While this is probably true, I would think that this applies to human growth in most regards. Would a child never fed a complete source of protein be underweight and smaller than one that had been eating meat/dairy? I heard a rumour from a friend who lives in Shanghai that in the poorer parts of China the people are generally shorter and smaller due to them only eating rice, I have no idea if it's actually true or not.
Second question is a followup. If this is actually true, what kind of precautions can vegans take to avoid this and ensure healthy and normal growth? I once spoke with a vegan who was an absolute stick who told me he mixed several different vegetables together to create a whole set of amino acids, but since vegetables are simply not even close to protein dense, is the amount you can create and eat enough?
I'm also very curious to if any of the vegans here are somewhat muscular or have strong physiques. And/or if you workout, what are your lift stats?
Perhaps to shed some light on the matter:
There are 20 basic amino acids. 8 of these amino acids are considered to be "essential" - they cannot be synthesized in the body, and must be consumed directly. The other 12 amino acids can be synthesized using the either amino acids as precursor molecules. So long as you vary your diet to include all these amino acids, you will be fine. The body doesn't need *that* much protein, only about 1g/kg body mass per day.
When cells assemble proteins, they do it from individual amino acids, one at a time to build a polymer/polypeptide. It makes no difference where those amino acids come from; protein consumed in meat or in any other source will be catabolized into individual amino acids just the same. As far as stunted growth goes, there are other issues to consider as well. There's caloric intake, vitamins, etc.
Ok, I guess it makes sense that you can cycle foods to get all your amino acids, but in this case they are not all present at the same time and your body still cannot build muscle tissue, right? Obviously to accurately wage if a lack of complete proteins caused stunted growth, there are many variables. But let's assume you have two children intaking the same kcal everyday, same macro nutrient buildup, but in one the proteins are complete and in the other they are incomplete. Would this actually result in stunted growth?
Well, when you say "incomplete" do you mean that one child would only ever eat 1 protein source that is incomplete? For lack of a better example, if you have corn, potatoes and beans in one meal, cumulatively you would be eating a complete protein source in one meal. If you only ever ate corn alone though, you would certainly have problems..
In terms of building muscle in an athletic context, it's more difficult for vegetarians generally because they (tend) to have less protein. It's important to note that less doesn't necessarily mean deficient, though.
On April 13 2011 06:13 Meta wrote: For the first three years of our relationship, my girlfriend was a vegetarian. It's funny, she actually felt embarrassed for some reason and told me and my friends that her stomach couldn't digest meat proteins, but it turns out she just cared too much for animals
Anyway, she never tried to persuade me to be a vegetarian, and I never tried to persuade her to eat meat. Then one day, out of the blue, she decided that she didn't want to be a vegetarian anymore, and to this day couldn't be happier with that decision.
Like I said previously in this thread, I really respect vegetarians/vegans for their decision. A lot of them don't act like it's difficult to entirely avoid meat products but I don't buy it one bit. It would be so hard! I can't even imagine it. Maybe I'm just a picky eater ^^
My opinion is, we certainly exploit the animals we breed, raise, and kill to eat. Is this unethical? Perhaps. But I don't think it's as unethical as a lot of vegans/vegetarians make it out to be. It sucks that profit has induced radical change in modern farming communities to cut expenses which generally creates horrible living conditions for the animals. I wish there was some regulation in that regard. But "good" farms exist, where cattle are raised fairly well. My grandpa had an organic farm where he raised 30 or so cattle at a time and they all grazed pastures every single day, and man were they delicious.
I think non-vegetarianism can be conducted ethically, and even when it's not conducted ethically, well at least the victims aren't humans. (Pretty much a cop-out argument, I know)
I'm not a vegetarian but still most of the time do not cook anything with meat. The meat I still eat is beef or pork tenderloin or veal because it tastes awesome by itself without being drowned in some sauce and I eat meat so rarely that I do not care how much something like veal costs. If it's warm outside, I sometimes crave a barbecue with bratwurst and beer.
In the past, a regular meal for me was based around grilled or fried meat or schnitzels and potatoes.
Years ago I was bored and tried to replace those packets with sauce mixes that I used to cook chili con carne and goulash. To make a pot of beans I basically mixed beans with water and stir fried minced meat and the powder from those packets.
After some research I bought the needed vegetables and managed to cook a pot of beans without those packet sauce mixes. I noticed a much improved flavor. I also noticed that the taste of meat was less important than cooking with fresh vegetables and started reducing the amount of minced meat I used per pot of beans. That came in handy, because the vegetables take up more volume than the packets of powder from the supermarket.
I got curious and started experimenting with vegetable side dishes for my regular meals. After finding ways to make side dishes that I liked, the number of schnitzels per day naturally decreased. I kinda got addicted to having a variety of stuff on my plate. I also experimented with what type of rice and what rice cooking method I like best and found something that could rival potatoes for me.
It just kinda happened that the schnitzels transformed from the main part of the meal to being the new side dish and then started to mostly completely disappear.
Now that I do not really care much for meat anymore, I can see how vegetarians could actually not be lying when they say they do not really miss their meaty past. And without cravings for meat it just makes sense to never buy meat.
Me personally, I'm actually probably just too lazy to cook with cheap meat. It does not taste good enough for the work I have to put into it in the kitchen. [I also find it a bit creepy how sensitive the human nose is to the smell of raw meat. You can smell which knife was used to cut up raw meat, if it's not cleaned very thoroughly, even though there is nothing visible on the blade.]
I had to register for this thread. Ive been a lurker for about 5+ years.
I'm 100% Vegan and 90% Raw. Someone on the page previous to this one asked about height/weight. For reference I'm 6 feet 185 lbs. Over the years I have had various tests run out of curiousity and as a precaution. Blood tests and everything else have always come back perfect. Doctor says don't change anything. Although at the start he didn't exactly reccomend it. This just goes to show one how little most people, even doctors know about nutrition. I've been to doctors in the past that are brainwashed into thinking we need meat. The same guys that are pushing drugs instead of actual real preventive health care.....hmmm -____-
Besides health and animals I'm a Raw Vegan because I'm also a minimalist. Nothing is easier than "preparing" an apple
There are alot of myths out there about meat/dairy and what those industires and uninformed people want us to believe we need. The most common question i get asked is where do I get my protein. It's a bit sad that most people are programmed to think that meat is the only source of protein the world has ever seen lol. I guess I can't blame them, after all I was that way until about 10 years ago. Most people go their whole lives and don't think too much about what they put in their bodies.
On April 13 2011 16:57 RawVeganYes wrote: I had to register for this thread. Ive been a lurker for about 5+ years.
I'm 100% Vegan and 90% Raw. Someone on the page previous to this one asked about height/weight. For reference I'm 6 feet 185 lbs. Over the years I have had various tests run out of curiousity and as a precaution. Blood tests and everything else have always come back perfect. Doctor says don't change anything. Although at the start he didn't exactly reccomend it. This just goes to show one how little most people, even doctors know about nutrition. I've been to doctors in the past that are brainwashed into thinking we need meat. The same guys that are pushing drugs instead of actual real preventive health care.....hmmm -____-
Besides health and animals I'm a Raw Vegan because I'm also a minimalist. Nothing is easier than "preparing" an apple
There are alot of myths out there about meat/dairy and what those industires and uninformed people want us to believe we need. The most common question i get asked is where do I get my protein. It's a bit sad that most people are programmed to think that meat is the only source of protein the world has ever seen lol. I guess I can't blame them, after all I was that way until about 10 years ago. Most people go their whole lives and don't think too much about what they put in their bodies.
Academic studies show, that the average vegan will run into more cardio-vascular problems than the average meat eater or vegetarian, vegetarians being the healthiest. Even raw is... not the best as cooking increases the bio availability of some nutrients.
On April 13 2011 16:57 RawVeganYes wrote: I had to register for this thread. Ive been a lurker for about 5+ years.
I'm 100% Vegan and 90% Raw. Someone on the page previous to this one asked about height/weight. For reference I'm 6 feet 185 lbs. Over the years I have had various tests run out of curiousity and as a precaution. Blood tests and everything else have always come back perfect. Doctor says don't change anything. Although at the start he didn't exactly reccomend it. This just goes to show one how little most people, even doctors know about nutrition. I've been to doctors in the past that are brainwashed into thinking we need meat. The same guys that are pushing drugs instead of actual real preventive health care.....hmmm -____-
Besides health and animals I'm a Raw Vegan because I'm also a minimalist. Nothing is easier than "preparing" an apple
There are alot of myths out there about meat/dairy and what those industires and uninformed people want us to believe we need. The most common question i get asked is where do I get my protein. It's a bit sad that most people are programmed to think that meat is the only source of protein the world has ever seen lol. I guess I can't blame them, after all I was that way until about 10 years ago. Most people go their whole lives and don't think too much about what they put in their bodies.
Raw Vegans are amazing. It sounds like a really happy and healthy lifestyle.
Raw food is actually pretty dangerous... There is a pretty good reason why all civilisations have heated up their food beyond 60 degrees; germs you know...
On April 13 2011 16:57 RawVeganYes wrote: I had to register for this thread. Ive been a lurker for about 5+ years.
I'm 100% Vegan and 90% Raw. Someone on the page previous to this one asked about height/weight. For reference I'm 6 feet 185 lbs. Over the years I have had various tests run out of curiousity and as a precaution. Blood tests and everything else have always come back perfect. Doctor says don't change anything. Although at the start he didn't exactly reccomend it. This just goes to show one how little most people, even doctors know about nutrition. I've been to doctors in the past that are brainwashed into thinking we need meat. The same guys that are pushing drugs instead of actual real preventive health care.....hmmm -____-
Besides health and animals I'm a Raw Vegan because I'm also a minimalist. Nothing is easier than "preparing" an apple
There are alot of myths out there about meat/dairy and what those industires and uninformed people want us to believe we need. The most common question i get asked is where do I get my protein. It's a bit sad that most people are programmed to think that meat is the only source of protein the world has ever seen lol. I guess I can't blame them, after all I was that way until about 10 years ago. Most people go their whole lives and don't think too much about what they put in their bodies.
Academic studies show, that the average vegan will run into more cardio-vascular problems than the average meat eater or vegetarian, vegetarians being the healthiest. Even raw is... not the best as cooking increases the bio availability of some nutrients.
You have some more research to do my friend. There are a SELECT few foods that benefit from cooking. However, in genergal cooking most foods decreases the nutritional value. Most foods lose a portion of their nutrients when cooked.
And your tid bit about heart problems. You have it backwards lol.
I'm not here to debate about being Raw and what it is about, or even being Vegan.
On April 13 2011 17:38 Ghostcom wrote: Raw food is actually pretty dangerous... There is a pretty good reason why all civilisations have heated up their food beyond 60 degrees; germs you know...
Now I regret posting. I don't understand why people post withought doing some research first. Of course there are a few SELECT foods that are dangerous raw. Do you think I eat those foods? A banana is raw, is that dangerous?
Also things are considered raw as long as they are not heated above 115 degrees. Some people have differing opinions on the exact temperature but that is about the max.
On April 13 2011 16:57 RawVeganYes wrote: I had to register for this thread. Ive been a lurker for about 5+ years.
I'm 100% Vegan and 90% Raw. Someone on the page previous to this one asked about height/weight. For reference I'm 6 feet 185 lbs. Over the years I have had various tests run out of curiousity and as a precaution. Blood tests and everything else have always come back perfect. Doctor says don't change anything. Although at the start he didn't exactly reccomend it. This just goes to show one how little most people, even doctors know about nutrition. I've been to doctors in the past that are brainwashed into thinking we need meat. The same guys that are pushing drugs instead of actual real preventive health care.....hmmm -____-
Besides health and animals I'm a Raw Vegan because I'm also a minimalist. Nothing is easier than "preparing" an apple
There are alot of myths out there about meat/dairy and what those industires and uninformed people want us to believe we need. The most common question i get asked is where do I get my protein. It's a bit sad that most people are programmed to think that meat is the only source of protein the world has ever seen lol. I guess I can't blame them, after all I was that way until about 10 years ago. Most people go their whole lives and don't think too much about what they put in their bodies.
Raw Vegans are amazing. It sounds like a really happy and healthy lifestyle.
Yes it's great and luckily I don't have to deal with some of the people in this thread on a day to day basis lol.
edit: sory for too many posts in a row. I'm a noob :/
On April 13 2011 16:57 RawVeganYes wrote: I had to register for this thread. Ive been a lurker for about 5+ years.
I'm 100% Vegan and 90% Raw. Someone on the page previous to this one asked about height/weight. For reference I'm 6 feet 185 lbs. Over the years I have had various tests run out of curiousity and as a precaution. Blood tests and everything else have always come back perfect. Doctor says don't change anything. Although at the start he didn't exactly reccomend it. This just goes to show one how little most people, even doctors know about nutrition. I've been to doctors in the past that are brainwashed into thinking we need meat. The same guys that are pushing drugs instead of actual real preventive health care.....hmmm -____-
Besides health and animals I'm a Raw Vegan because I'm also a minimalist. Nothing is easier than "preparing" an apple
There are alot of myths out there about meat/dairy and what those industires and uninformed people want us to believe we need. The most common question i get asked is where do I get my protein. It's a bit sad that most people are programmed to think that meat is the only source of protein the world has ever seen lol. I guess I can't blame them, after all I was that way until about 10 years ago. Most people go their whole lives and don't think too much about what they put in their bodies.
Academic studies show, that the average vegan will run into more cardio-vascular problems than the average meat eater or vegetarian, vegetarians being the healthiest. Even raw is... not the best as cooking increases the bio availability of some nutrients.
I would really like to see examples of these studies. My bet is that they come directly from the meat industry. I thought it was fairly common knowledge that increased cardio-vascular problems and heart disease is directly linked to the amount of meat an individual eats. That is why you see instances of heart disease and cardio-vascular problems so much higher in the West and nations that traditionally eat much larger quantities of meat.
Developing nations in the East are starting to see surges in the cases of heart disease, is it causality or merely coincidence that this correlates with increasing meat consumption? Its hard to say, but there is certainly little if any evidence linking consuption of plants to heart disease and cardio-vascular issues.
I have been an avid meat eater my entire life until very recently. I used to believe that meat provided essential elements of my diet that I simply could not get elsewhere. However, I began doing research and found the exact opposite to be more likely. Furthuremore, the increasingly inhuman way we produce meat also contributed to turning me away. I still eat meat occasionally, I haven't quite been able to stop quite yet. However, it is not nearly as difficult as I first thought.
On April 12 2011 04:10 mAgixWTF wrote: i stopped eating meat, eggs, fish and dairy products like 3 months ago, after i saw the best documentation ever made: Earthlings. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys
Even after 3 months I sometimes have a hard time buying from a german supermarket, since almost every product uses animals. Like this one time I wanted to buy olives, but this big store only had olives which were drowned in lactic acid. A pineapple-mango smoothie, with milk! I even stopped buying products where i couldnt read and understand the ingredients-tables. And they are written in chinese for me
And last, but not least, I fear I am eating too much soy. Soy milk, soy yoghurt, tofu, soy sprouts. At least 2 times a day!
holy sh... im speechless with horror
i saw this video some years ago...i never felt so bad till this day
For any current Vegans or people looking to become Vegan their is a great website that ships worldwide I believe. veganessentials.com They even have raw stuff for me
Having a vegan alternative for everything from the start makes the process a whole lot easier for people switching over.
And of course i do not work for them in any way. Having a 1 stop shop is just nice though.
On April 13 2011 17:38 Ghostcom wrote: Raw food is actually pretty dangerous... There is a pretty good reason why all civilisations have heated up their food beyond 60 degrees; germs you know...
O god lol. These kinds of people. Now I regret posting. I don't understand why people post withought doing some research first. Of course there are a few SELECT foods that are dangerous raw. Do you think I eat those foods? A banana is raw, is that dangerous? thanks.
I'm not going into a lengthy debate about this, but I happen to work at the department of infectious diseases at a university hospital as a doctor, so I actually have a clue... There have been studies regarding raw-food where they compare it to cooked food and the conclusions were:
1) Raw-food lacks COMPLETELY in the vitamin D-department (you get it mostly from fish and eggs).
2) Betacaroten bloodlevel content is twice as high in asparagus, 3 times as high in onions and 5 times as high in carrots when they are cooked compared to raw.
3) It is pretty hard to get enough proteins and iron, just as it is with a vegan diet and you are going to lack in the long fatty chain department.
4) The thought that lies behind raw-food which is that enzymes are destroyed when heated above 42 degrees and that if you don't heat them above said temperature you can utilize said enzymes is wrong. The enzymes are destroyed anyhow as soon as they reach the acidic enviroment in your stomach.
This is not to belittle the choice you've made - you can eat whatever you want for me. It's merely the facts.
EDIT: And for the future, please keep your personal insults and belittling remarks at the door. There is really no reason for them and they only make you seem insecure >_>
And now, gogogogogo more recipies - I for one could definitely use more veggies in my diet and I'm looking for inspiration on how to make it more interesting
On April 13 2011 17:38 Ghostcom wrote: Raw food is actually pretty dangerous... There is a pretty good reason why all civilisations have heated up their food beyond 60 degrees; germs you know...
O god lol. These kinds of people. Now I regret posting. I don't understand why people post withought doing some research first. Of course there are a few SELECT foods that are dangerous raw. Do you think I eat those foods? A banana is raw, is that dangerous? thanks.
I'm not going into a lengthy debate about this, but I happen to work at the department of infectious diseases at a university hospital as a doctor, so I actually have a clue... There have been studies regarding raw-food where they compare it to cooked food and the conclusions were:
1) Raw-food lacks COMPLETELY in the vitamin D-department (you get it mostly from fish and eggs).
2) Betacaroten bloodlevel content is twice as high in asparagus, 3 times as high in onions and 5 times as high in carrots when they are cooked compared to raw.
3) It is pretty hard to get enough proteins and iron, just as it is with a vegan diet and you are going to lack in the long fatty chain department.
4) The thought that lies behind raw-food which is that enzymes are destroyed when heated above 42 degrees and that if you don't heat them above said temperature you can utilize said enzymes is wrong. The enzymes are destroyed anyhow as soon as they reach the acidic enviroment in your stomach.
This is not to belittle the choice you've made - you can eat whatever you want for me. It's merely the facts.
EDIT: And for the future, please keep your personal insults and belittling remarks at the door. There is really no reason for them and they only make you seem insecure >_>
And now, gogogogogo more recipies - I for one could definitely use more veggies in my diet and I'm looking for inspiration on how to make it more interesting
2) And that's not the only place you'll find higher bio-availability either. But the important point is that raw foods have a bettes nutrient profile by a wide margin - especially when it comes to trace nutrients.
3) This is incorrect. Look no further than the nutrition information for legumes and nuts.
I do agree that its important to have cooked meals (I have 1 per day that's heavy on the veggies, my other 3 being uncooked vegetarian meals)
On April 13 2011 17:38 Ghostcom wrote: Raw food is actually pretty dangerous... There is a pretty good reason why all civilisations have heated up their food beyond 60 degrees; germs you know...
O god lol. These kinds of people. Now I regret posting. I don't understand why people post withought doing some research first. Of course there are a few SELECT foods that are dangerous raw. Do you think I eat those foods? A banana is raw, is that dangerous? thanks.
I'm not going into a lengthy debate about this, but I happen to work at the department of infectious diseases at a university hospital as a doctor, so I actually have a clue... There have been studies regarding raw-food where they compare it to cooked food and the conclusions were:
1) Raw-food lacks COMPLETELY in the vitamin D-department (you get it mostly from fish and eggs).
2) Betacaroten bloodlevel content is twice as high in asparagus, 3 times as high in onions and 5 times as high in carrots when they are cooked compared to raw.
3) It is pretty hard to get enough proteins and iron, just as it is with a vegan diet and you are going to lack in the long fatty chain department.
4) The thought that lies behind raw-food which is that enzymes are destroyed when heated above 42 degrees and that if you don't heat them above said temperature you can utilize said enzymes is wrong. The enzymes are destroyed anyhow as soon as they reach the acidic enviroment in your stomach.
This is not to belittle the choice you've made - you can eat whatever you want for me. It's merely the facts.
EDIT: And for the future, please keep your personal insults and belittling remarks at the door. There is really no reason for them and they only make you seem insecure >_>
And now, gogogogogo more recipies - I for one could definitely use more veggies in my diet and I'm looking for inspiration on how to make it more interesting
1) Most people actually don’t get vitamin D from their diet, because it is produced naturally in the body after being exposed to sunlight
2) As I stated, there are a SELECT group of foods that have increased nutritional value when cooking them. As stated in my previous post I admitted that. However, as I said be4 MOST foods lose a portion of their nutritional content when cooked.
3) 1 oz. or my raw jungle peanuts has 7 grams of protein. Pumpkin seeds have an insane amount of iron and protein. Nuts and seeds are plenty to cover the iron and protein areas.
4) Just lol.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be lacking.
Your facts are not facts.
edit: I did not bellitle anyone. I simply stated that people were coming in here misinformed and posting false ideas, as have you. You can chose to do as you please as will I. I am no better than anyone else. However this is a Vegan/veggie thread and when meat eaters come in posting nonsense telling us were wrong, then they need to be exposed.
There is no need to argue about this. Let's keep the thread friendly without telling people that what they are doing is wrong while providing false facts.
On April 13 2011 17:38 Ghostcom wrote: Raw food is actually pretty dangerous... There is a pretty good reason why all civilisations have heated up their food beyond 60 degrees; germs you know...
O god lol. These kinds of people. Now I regret posting. I don't understand why people post withought doing some research first. Of course there are a few SELECT foods that are dangerous raw. Do you think I eat those foods? A banana is raw, is that dangerous? thanks.
I'm not going into a lengthy debate about this, but I happen to work at the department of infectious diseases at a university hospital as a doctor, so I actually have a clue... There have been studies regarding raw-food where they compare it to cooked food and the conclusions were:
1) Raw-food lacks COMPLETELY in the vitamin D-department (you get it mostly from fish and eggs).
2) Betacaroten bloodlevel content is twice as high in asparagus, 3 times as high in onions and 5 times as high in carrots when they are cooked compared to raw.
3) It is pretty hard to get enough proteins and iron, just as it is with a vegan diet and you are going to lack in the long fatty chain department.
4) The thought that lies behind raw-food which is that enzymes are destroyed when heated above 42 degrees and that if you don't heat them above said temperature you can utilize said enzymes is wrong. The enzymes are destroyed anyhow as soon as they reach the acidic enviroment in your stomach.
This is not to belittle the choice you've made - you can eat whatever you want for me. It's merely the facts.
EDIT: And for the future, please keep your personal insults and belittling remarks at the door. There is really no reason for them and they only make you seem insecure >_>
And now, gogogogogo more recipies - I for one could definitely use more veggies in my diet and I'm looking for inspiration on how to make it more interesting
1) Most people actually don’t get vitamin D from their diet, because it is produced naturally in the body after being exposed to sunlight
2) As I stated, there are a SELECT group of foods that have increased nutritional value when cooking them. As stated in my previous post I admitted that. However, as I said be4 most foods lose a portion of their nutritional content when cooked.
3) 1 oz. or my raw jungle peanuts has 7 grams of protein. Thanks though. Pumpkin seeds have an insane amount of iron and protein. Nuts and seeds are plenty to cover the iron and protein areas.
4) Just lol.
A poorly planned diet or any kind will be lacking.
Your facts are not facts.
If you really want to have this discussion I will be more than happy to do it in PMs, but I'm not willing to derail this thread any further.
But I will leave you with this:
1) 80% of the Scandinavian population is vitamin D-deficient, the sun is pretty far from being enough for the vast majority of the western civilizations population, the dietary intake is fairly important as well.
2) Your select group of foods is a lot bigger than you make it sound.
3) Congratulations? See the explanation about essential aminoacids written by someone else further up. I'm not saying it's impossible to get enough protein, just that it is very hard. There is a reason why one of the central questions are if people are having special diets when admitting them to the hospital - and attempt at good service isn't the one...
4) Glad to make you happy - yet that is the most used pseudo-scientific argument for why raw-food is TEH SHIZZLE. And as with many other pseudo-scientific arguments it's wrong.
Again, if you want to eat raw-food, be my guest, if it makes you happy, well congratulations - I'm not here to "turn you around". I'm originally here to steal your recipies, but when I see someone praising a potentially dangerous and lifethreatening diet I feel I have to voice my concerns that people eating raw-food run the risk of deficiencysyndroms unless they plan carefully.
I've been a vegetarian for soon two years now and it's been one of the best choices I ever made. Even though I think the animal ethics in society today is horrible I think the very biggest reason for me that made me switch is the environmental fact. The further I got in my academic environmental/biology studies I just felt worse and worse about supporting the meat industry which is one of the biggest environmental problems in every country around the world today and felt like I needed to put enough effort in so that I was a much smaller part of the problem.
For me it's sad that with the knowledge we have today about how closely related and similar living beings are most still only care about other human beings. Anyone with a clear ethical perspective and enough eduction should understand that not only humans should have room to live and thrive on this planet.
On April 13 2011 17:38 Ghostcom wrote: Raw food is actually pretty dangerous... There is a pretty good reason why all civilisations have heated up their food beyond 60 degrees; germs you know...
O god lol. These kinds of people. Now I regret posting. I don't understand why people post withought doing some research first. Of course there are a few SELECT foods that are dangerous raw. Do you think I eat those foods? A banana is raw, is that dangerous? thanks.
I'm not going into a lengthy debate about this, but I happen to work at the department of infectious diseases at a university hospital as a doctor, so I actually have a clue... There have been studies regarding raw-food where they compare it to cooked food and the conclusions were:
1) Raw-food lacks COMPLETELY in the vitamin D-department (you get it mostly from fish and eggs).
2) Betacaroten bloodlevel content is twice as high in asparagus, 3 times as high in onions and 5 times as high in carrots when they are cooked compared to raw.
3) It is pretty hard to get enough proteins and iron, just as it is with a vegan diet and you are going to lack in the long fatty chain department.
4) The thought that lies behind raw-food which is that enzymes are destroyed when heated above 42 degrees and that if you don't heat them above said temperature you can utilize said enzymes is wrong. The enzymes are destroyed anyhow as soon as they reach the acidic enviroment in your stomach.
This is not to belittle the choice you've made - you can eat whatever you want for me. It's merely the facts.
EDIT: And for the future, please keep your personal insults and belittling remarks at the door. There is really no reason for them and they only make you seem insecure >_>
And now, gogogogogo more recipies - I for one could definitely use more veggies in my diet and I'm looking for inspiration on how to make it more interesting
1) Most people actually don’t get vitamin D from their diet, because it is produced naturally in the body after being exposed to sunlight
2) As I stated, there are a SELECT group of foods that have increased nutritional value when cooking them. As stated in my previous post I admitted that. However, as I said be4 most foods lose a portion of their nutritional content when cooked.
3) 1 oz. or my raw jungle peanuts has 7 grams of protein. Thanks though. Pumpkin seeds have an insane amount of iron and protein. Nuts and seeds are plenty to cover the iron and protein areas.
4) Just lol.
A poorly planned diet or any kind will be lacking.
Your facts are not facts.
If you really want to have this discussion I will be more than happy to do it in PMs, but I'm not willing to derail this thread any further.
But I will leave you with this:
1) 80% of the Scandinavian population is vitamin D-deficient, the sun is pretty far from being enough for the vast majority of the western civilizations population, the dietary intake is fairly important as well.
2) Your select group of foods is a lot bigger than you make it sound.
3) Congratulations? See the explanation about essential aminoacids written by someone else further up. I'm not saying it's impossible to get enough protein, just that it is very hard. There is a reason why one of the central questions are if people are having special diets when admitting them to the hospital - and attempt at good service isn't the one...
4) Glad to make you happy - yet that is the most used pseudo-scientific argument for why raw-food is TEH SHIZZLE. And as with many other pseudo-scientific arguments it's wrong.
Again, if you want to eat raw-food, be my guest, if it makes you happy, well congratulations - I'm not here to "turn you around". I'm originally here to steal your recipies, but when I see someone praising a potentially dangerous and lifethreatening diet I feel I have to voice my concerns that people eating raw-food run the risk of deficiencysyndroms unless they plan carefully.
1) I live in California. I am Raw Vegan. I am not deficient in vitamin D (nor anything else). If this is a problem for someone, then take a vegan multi vitamin. Case closed.
2) You named about 3 foods that benefit from cooking out of thousands. There is a reasons why there are only a handful of specific known foods that benefit from cooking. It is because it is generally known that the cooking process in MOST foods DESTROYS some nutrients. Otherewise it would be the other way aorund and they would be listing the handful of few specific foods that are more nutrient dense raw. But this isnt the case. Becuase infact, MOST foods are more nutritious raw.
As I already stated some foods can't be eaten raw. So don't eat them....
3) Again a poorly planned diet of any kind will be lacking and dangerous. Getting the proper amino acids is not a problem with minimal research. I'm not sure why you are making it out to be. It involves a few minutes of research and then eating the food.
If someone can't be bothered to do the reseach or for peace of mind, then take "Sunwarrior" raw vegan protein powder for a complete amino acid profile. Case closed.
You make it seem like by eating raw vegan food I'm eating food from Mars or something. I eat Raw fruits and veggies just like you do (as well as seeds, nuts, some raw food bars, a small amount of supplements etc). I simply do not eat cooked or non vegan food (most of the time, see below).
As I stated I am 100% Vegan and 90% raw. So I do eat cooked vegan food on occasion and do take a small amount of supplements for peace of mind. I am not here to preach. Veggie, Vegan, Raw Vegan... its all good to me. Hell if you want to eat meat I dont care. Everyone has a choice.
Supplementing is not required all the time, but for beginers or peace of mind it can be done There is no shame in it. People of all walks of life take some form of supplements be it red bull, coffee, herbs, prescription drugs etc etc.
I had hoped this thread would not turn into a shitstorm. And that it would be a great source of information and recipes. However, I expected it. This is why I do not generally talk about veganism in general forums or online at all. Hell even talking with people in person can be laughable. Meat eaters always come and tell us were wrong with "facts" that they heard from some study done by some people funded by the meat and dairy industy. People are so close minded lots of times and have their blinders on regarding this subject. Stepping outside of their comfort zone and doing some actual non biased research isnt something alot of people like to do. People like to do what they have always done. There are lots of common sense reasons why eating meat and dairy is not "needed" in the video below. Its the most basic of common sense that it can't be debated.
Peace and Love and Peace out
P.S. I will leave you all with this video. It provides a wealth of information on vegnanism in general. The best video on this subject I have seen.
On April 12 2011 20:13 VIB wrote: I'm one of those who keep trying to become vegetarian but fails. Nothing to do with the taste, vegetarian food is awesome. The big problem is that it's hard as hell to make/buy good vegetarian food compared to unhealthy stuff.
It's 10x easier to just throw a beef in the pan with olive oil and some simple spices than it is to try to cook one of those awesome indian curry filled vegetables that I don't even know the name of.
I've been cooking for over an year, and found it's a general rule that making unhealthy food is just easy. Cooking stuff that tastes awesome but is unhealth is ridiculously easy, anyone can do it. Cooking stuff that is just healthy, but doesn't taste great, that is easy too. The problem is trying to cook stuff that is both healthy and taste good. It's too hard and time consuming. The real good vegetarian meals have like 10 or 15 spices to it. It's hard to get it right.
I do avoid meat as much as I can. But I with sometimes I wish didn't get lazy and just fry a steak because it's easier. Just like the one I just made yesterday for today's lunch
Any tips for people trying to cook simple vegetarian dishes that both taste great and are just as easy to make as frying a steak? ^^
This shouldn't have to be true. I think most chefs will say a steak/meat/fish is easier to do wrong than vegetables. The main thing about cooking vegetarian diets is to put the ingredients in the right order, so they all have the right consistency, and to turn it off on time so that it doesn't burn/cook to pulp. So I really don't see why you think it is easier to make a steak than an indian curry. Even if they curry burns on the bottom of the pan, it is still fine.
The main issue for many people may be is that they take their old dishes, take the meat out, and go from there. I don't know what you try to cook and why it is unhealthy. But let me present my way of thinking about food. Also, vegetarian or not, there is always the challenge of cooking creatively, fast and healthy.
First, I don't think in terms of dishes. I think in terms of ingredients. In the end you may see that every dish is just a variation of the same thing. Pasta, noodles, curry, chili, nachos, etc.
Ingredients I group in several categories. a) dairy (and I guess egg too) b) mushrooms c) vegetables
Then the vegetable section is split into 4 groups: 1) starchy vegetables (rice, potato, grains, corn) 2) protein vegetables (beans, legumes, etc) 3) healthy vegetables (all the low calory nutrious stuff) 4) fruits (are high in calories like advocado)
A tomato is low on calories but technically a fruit. You can't equal an advocado with an eggplant. In the kichen a tomato is condidered a vegetable and not a fruit, but alas.
The main thing I do is build around the healthy vegetables. You need to embrace those. If you don't, you won't be able to eat healthy, vegetarian or not. My personal favorites are broccoli, eggplant and carrot. You need to find yours.
Then I need to add something to fill me up. If I eat purely heathy vegetables I will stay hungry and eat unhealthy snacks. So in the starchy category I pick one. Be it rice, noodles, couscous, pasta, potatos, etc. Pancake, pizza, wraps, tortilla, nachos all fall in this category. Category 2 I don't always use. But they help fill up while being lower on carbs. Tofu would also be in this category.
Then the dairy products are mostly icing on the cake and mushrooms I personally don't use a lot.
How how are things the same? Take a curry. You make a stew of vegetables. Traditional vegetables for curry are onion, cauliflower, potato, green beans, bell pepper/chili. But if you change the ingredients to onion, tomato, squash, bell pepper and carrot, how is it different from ratatouille? Sure, spices and how soft you cook it. Often for me these are the same dish. I just add different spices. And if you take the ratatouille vegetables and fry them a bit in a pan and you eat them with pasta then you suddenly have a pasta dish. In that case I like to add cheese. And then pasta and noodles are basically the same thing. And then you have grain noodles and rice noodles. And rice and rice noodles are the same thing. SO the circle is round.
If you add rice to the curry then it is a pullao or biryani. Biryani and other rice dishes like paella and risotto are also similar. You can fry the rice or not. You can keep the rice and the vegetable/spices/sause mix seperate, or put them together.
Pancake, wraps, pizza are also basically the same.
Then you have lasagna which is also considered a form of pasta. And lasagna and moussaka are also very similar. And here there are similarities again with a vegetable stew.
So you can use the same procedure with different ingredients or a different procedure with the same ingredients.
Then you also have soups which are watery stews. If a soup isn't a watery stew because it is just water with a taste and colour then it can't be the main dish and I don't like to make several courses because it just takes more time.
I think in the end it mainly comes down to becoming more used to cooking meals different from the ones you are used to making. It is always hard to change habits.
As for the protein myth. It comes from the fact that there are no vegetables that have a good balance of all essential amino acids. Meat does have this. This means you need to eat more than 2 types of vegetables within 24 hours or so. If you do the body will always be able to create all amino acid chains. Many non-meat products have a lot of protein and minerals like calcium, iron, etc. Western diets have too much protein in them anyway. Too much protein isn't necessarily unhealthy like too much fat, but the fact remains people that eat meat often get too much rather than vegetarians too little.
As for bodybuilding. Don't they eat whey protein shakes anyway to overdose on protein? There's vegetarian bodybuilders and so there are vegetarian triathletes, etc. For extreme athletes that have to have extreme diets it is often better to leave out red meat anyway.
Many good posts in this thread <3 It is true that being Vegan doesn't automatically makes you deficient in something or other and it is the most efficient of the diets. It was determined that meat is actually a pretty wasteful food in comparison to veggies which are more eco friendly. So not only are you saving the life of an innocent creature but you are also doing earth a favor too. I support vegans with all my heart and wish more of us can follow it. Oh, and if you are non-veg its still cool. Just try not to eat too much and use green fillings more
The only problem with vegetarian diets is the nutrition - which can be sufficient if the diet is carefully planned. Im not a vegetarian myself but i can understand those who are, i do love meat though and it has it advantages and disadvantages to be a vegetarian.
Amaranth seed is great for vegetarians or to those who wanna lower the meat intake. The leaves are very good source of lotsa nutrients too. You can find the leaves easily in Latino markets (as quelite) and Chinese markets (as Chinese spinach).
On April 13 2011 18:45 Pulimuli wrote: The only problem with vegetarian diets is the nutrition - which can be sufficient if the diet is carefully planned. Im not a vegetarian myself but i can understand those who are, i do love meat though and it has it advantages and disadvantages to be a vegetarian.
Slightly exaggerated, I lived for years off only schnitzel and potatoes (also deep fried like the schnitzel). Arguing that one needs careful planning for a vegetarian diet sounds so theoretical to me.
I'm not vegetarian or vegan but I am eating way less meat than I used to (former carnivore). A few friends of mine have gotten together and we are planning a website to share recipes and information related to better health and wellness.
I was also thinking about adding a section for user submitted recipes to share as well as some other useful information.
One of my favorite things is making green smoothies/juices. I use leafy green vegetables or herbs as both are amazing sources of different vitamins, minerals and antioxidants. As a general rule of thumb you want to go with 60/40 fruit to veggie ratio though when you use things like Kale which has a bitter taste to it, you want to find the right compliment to mix with it (I haven't found a favorite yet).
Here's a quick smoothie/juice I made recently that is actually really tasty:
1 Bunch of Parsley (check resources on this, parsley is really good) 1 Medium Pineapple (cut the skin layer off) 1-1.5 Cups of Orange Juice 1 Cup Water
Combine all ingredients in blender (I use a Vita-Mix, it does a really good job) and mix to desired consistency. This one yielded me about 4-5 8oz glasses.
On April 13 2011 18:45 Pulimuli wrote: The only problem with vegetarian diets is the nutrition - which can be sufficient if the diet is carefully planned. Im not a vegetarian myself but i can understand those who are, i do love meat though and it has it advantages and disadvantages to be a vegetarian.
Slightly exaggerated, I lived for years off only schnitzel and potatoes (also deep fried like the schnitzel). Arguing that one needs careful planning for a vegetarian diet sounds so theoretical to me.
Having a healthy vegetarian diet does require some planning. Not something terribly extravagant, but it certainly requires some research to ensure you are getting the proper nutrition. For instance, when my sister first went vegetarian, she mostly just ate grilled cheese and mac and cheese. It would be disingenuous to call that "healthy".
Vegan diets require stricter planning for sure. That or make sure to supplement the diet with multi-vitamins.
On April 13 2011 18:45 Pulimuli wrote: The only problem with vegetarian diets is the nutrition - which can be sufficient if the diet is carefully planned. Im not a vegetarian myself but i can understand those who are, i do love meat though and it has it advantages and disadvantages to be a vegetarian.
Slightly exaggerated, I lived for years off only schnitzel and potatoes (also deep fried like the schnitzel). Arguing that one needs careful planning for a vegetarian diet sounds so theoretical to me.
Having a healthy vegetarian diet does require some planning. Not something terribly extravagant, but it certainly requires some research to ensure you are getting the proper nutrition. For instance, when my sister first went vegetarian, she mostly just ate grilled cheese and mac and cheese. It would be disingenuous to call that "healthy".
Vegan diets require stricter planning for sure. That or make sure to supplement the diet with multi-vitamins.
Yeah but its not like so many people who eat meat have such healthy diets. Too many people have the idea that being a vegetarian will make you insta-unhealthy without a ton of planning, but truth be told they don't have healthy diets to begin with and to plan one out would not be that difficult.
I personally am not a vegetarian or vegan though many people I know are one or the other. Meat honestly is just really tasty and I do enjoy beef stew and baked chicken. I've been slowly cutting intake and buying free range/humanely raised whenever possible but I don't see myself becoming a vegetarian or vegan, maybe semi-vegetarian but man meat is good .
I do get really, really annoyed by vegans who have a holier than thou attitude though, they make me very angry.
I've been vegan for 1 year now and i dont regret anything. I have always been more of a "green" person and have been against torturing, killing and exploiting animals. But never made the actual step to go vegan. Now that i have done it, i feel really good. Informing yourself and thinking of going vegan really changes your point of view radically.
Btw im still a runner and participating in marathons so that prejudice of people being weak because of being vegan is wrong.
My point is. If you have ever, ever spend just a tiny little thought about going vegan, just do it. Your life and behavoirs will start to change to the positive in many styles. And it is really not tough to stay vegan if you WANT it. And you are going to want it if your getting yourself informed well.
I respect anyone who can do this, I love the taste of meat. I'm wondering if it's possible to cut meat completely out even if you do enjoy it? IT seems the majority of vegetarians or vegans just didn't have a preference in the beginning anyway.
On April 14 2011 17:05 GummyZerg wrote: I respect anyone who can do this, I love the taste of meat. I'm wondering if it's possible to cut meat completely out even if you do enjoy it? IT seems the majority of vegetarians or vegans just didn't have a preference in the beginning anyway.
yes, i do like the taste but if you get into being a vegan, it's simply not important for you anylonger
would you drink fukushima water out of the reactor if, by any curcumstance, it would taste super delicious? just because something is delicious doest meen you HAVE to be eating it.
people do what their habits are. and if you change your habit to not eating animal products, u wont be eating animal products
edit: it's all about priorities. for me saving innocent animals' lives has a higher priority than having a delicious meat. for you and the majority of people it's the other way around.
quite surprising to see. ive been vegetarian all my life, and lately have been leaning towards the vegan side. very cool to see more vego gamers.
Having a healthy vegetarian diet does require some planning. Not something terribly extravagant, but it certainly requires some research to ensure you are getting the proper nutrition. For instance, when my sister first went vegetarian, she mostly just ate grilled cheese and mac and cheese. It would be disingenuous to call that "healthy".
i kind of disagree, but of course i have a cultural advantage, that and my mum is a baller cook, and all my vegetarian friends mums are baller cooks. i do think that the research aspect is completely not needed, dive into it, eat whatever you want, whenever you want(thats vegetarian/vegan, take your pick) as overall, compared to a general meat inclusive diet, it is infinitely healthier. i read somewhere that vegetarians are 40% less likely to get obese, and this is definitely true, in fact id say we're 100% less likely to get obese, i have never seen an obese vegetarian.
i really dont care about animals tbh, i just see killing them as the wrong thing to do, that is my personal view. i dont go out and hug koala's and shit, fuck that. im just doing what i see as right.
On April 14 2011 17:05 GummyZerg wrote: I respect anyone who can do this, I love the taste of meat. I'm wondering if it's possible to cut meat completely out even if you do enjoy it? IT seems the majority of vegetarians or vegans just didn't have a preference in the beginning anyway.
I would be interested to know how many people eat steak, where you are actually dependent on the taste of the meat for your satisfaction.
If it is meat as one ingredient of many in a recipe, then the other ingredients could probably be more important than whatever taste the meat has for the final dish. I am thinking of something like a Big Mac, or how much of the taste of a bratwurst actually is from the pork meat and not from the herbs and fat and the barbecuing over coal.
I could only find statistics about general meat consumption in a short try with Google, and not what type of products it was used for.
Anyways: I have the suspicion many people do not eat roasted meat but instead junk food. If you add those to the number of people without a preference for meat, genuine meat lovers could perhaps end up as a minority in the statistic.
I eat the occasional beef or pork fillet or kebab barbecued in the summer (with guests). Now that I think about it, I like bacon a lot, but do not remember the last time I had a craving for it and the last time I ate it. And if I did not miss bacon until now, then it is probably possible to honestly forget that you enjoy meat while being on a vegetarian diet.
I've been a vegetarian for well over a year now. Personally it's because I find the meat industry absolutely disgusting. I think meat tastes great and I really enjoy eating it.... I've had relapses on two occasions when I was mad drunk/high. I forgive myself.
EDIT: GummyZerg: Yeah it's possible. The first months where a bit hard but now I don't struggle. My roomie even eats meat and that doesn't bother me.
1. Skin potatoes (I skin but you can leave it, skin is healthy but when i want chips health isn't usually first on the agenda) and cut into chips 2. Soak potatoes in cold water for 30 minutes (removes starch that makes chips sticky) 3. Dry by placing one layer of chips in paper towels, stack layers on top of each other with paper towels in between, place a weight on top of the chip/paper stack (i use the pot of water that i soaked them in) and dry for 5 or so minutes, too long and the potoatoes go brown. 4. While drying heat oil to 275 or whatever you like, i use canola but apparently the best is peanut oil. 5. Fry those badboys 6. Add salt and whatever spices you like (I add black pepper and rosemary). 7. Serve on paper towels
It's better to make them yourself because it's healthier and tastier imo. Be wary of the dodgier fast food places because they often fry in animal fat, fry with meat so animal product cross contaminates or add chicken salt even though you asked not to. T.T
I know KFC chips come shrink wrapped in lard. The only legit fast food chain is McDonalds, who use canola now, but i don't eat there much.
On April 12 2011 04:10 mAgixWTF wrote: i stopped eating meat, eggs, fish and dairy products like 3 months ago, after i saw the best documentation ever made: Earthlings. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys
Even after 3 months I sometimes have a hard time buying from a german supermarket, since almost every product uses animals. Like this one time I wanted to buy olives, but this big store only had olives which were drowned in lactic acid. A pineapple-mango smoothie, with milk! I even stopped buying products where i couldnt read and understand the ingredients-tables. And they are written in chinese for me
And last, but not least, I fear I am eating too much soy. Soy milk, soy yoghurt, tofu, soy sprouts. At least 2 times a day!
Wow i just got around to watching it. It's so powerful. I challenge someone to watch that then eat meat. The scene of the live cow with his throat ripped out and that abusive farmer made me sad/pissed. It's very confronting. That sort of militant veganism is unattractive to me, but that's because i'm a pacifist.
Makes me want to listen to Rage Against the Machine. Btw Zack de la Rocha is a vegetarian
On April 14 2011 17:05 GummyZerg wrote: I respect anyone who can do this, I love the taste of meat. I'm wondering if it's possible to cut meat completely out even if you do enjoy it? IT seems the majority of vegetarians or vegans just didn't have a preference in the beginning anyway.
I've been vegan for 2.5 years now. Before I made the switch, I had a terrible diet with loads and loads of meat. Burgers, hot dogs, fried chicken... you name it. I loved the stuff. Then we talked about the meat and dairy industries, how they treat their animals and the effects they have on the environment, in one of my ethics classes (philosophy major here), and I was horrified. That led to further research and consideration, and I realized that animals experience joy, fear, pleasure and pain just as we do. While not as sophisticated as ours, they have desires, ambitions and inter-personal relationships. Since human rights are fabricated in the interest of a pleasant society (they do not arise from nature), why should we not recognize the rights of other animals, too?
Anyway, to get back to the point. I made a cold, hard switch from an ultra-carnivorous diet to a purely vegan diet in one day, and it really wasn't hard. Sure, for the first year or so I still craved a nasty hamburger from time to time, but there are so many vegan meals that taste just as good if not better. Yes, meat tastes quite good, but, animal rights aside, with the way the industry currently functions, it is not good for you or the environment.
All of my sources are published books, not online articles, so I can't really share them, but I will share the names of some of the most informative books I read. Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer is your best bet, if you are new to veganism. Farm Sanctuary by Gene Baur is a good one if you're feeling a bit more sentimental, and Animal Liberation by Peter Singer is the classic, philosophical text on animal rights.
Hopefully this post was helpful. So many people think a vegan diet is difficult and extreme, but it's really not. There are so many options for food (pre-packaged or otherwise), and they are generally much healthier than carnivorous meals and oftentimes even tastier! Nutrition wise, the only vitamin I supplement is B12, which I recommend all vegans do. Thanks to veganism, I am in fantastic shape physically and mentally. Look into it!
I'm really glad to see that there's a nice healthy debate going on over the whole "raw food" thing because it sounds like pseudoscience to me, because I've never seen any hard evidence provided for its health benefits. Therefore for now, I'm defaulting by belief-o-meter to "bullshit."
However I'm really disappointed to see literally nobody cite even a single source for their claims about the benefits or risks of the diets in question. Claiming that you understand human nutrition well is fantastic, but if you can't provide a source or documentation from a certified professional or a peer-reviewed journal, then I think most people will be skeptical (as they should). Human nutrition and the body are extremely complicated. I don't think anybody's opinion here should be trusted blindly.
On April 15 2011 06:45 Pixilated wrote: I'm really glad to see that there's a nice healthy debate going on over the whole "raw food" thing because it sounds like pseudoscience to me, because I've never seen any hard evidence provided for its health benefits. Therefore for now, I'm defaulting by belief-o-meter to "bullshit."
However I'm really disappointed to see literally nobody cite even a single source for their claims about the benefits or risks of the diets in question. Claiming that you understand human nutrition well is fantastic, but if you can't provide a source or documentation from a certified professional or a peer-reviewed journal, then I think most people will be skeptical (as they should). Human nutrition and the body are extremely complicated. I don't think anybody's opinion here should be trusted blindly.
One of the biggest problems is that the second someone posts a link, there will immediately be someone who posts a counter link and a fight begins between two people ill equipped to have one. You can just look on the internet and find studies linking Raw Food to reversing diabetes and cancer, and another where people claim that a vegan diet leads to chronic life threatening conditions after only a few years of eating it. Shit is pretty easy to find for both, same with vegan/non vegan - but I definitely don't want to commit to one side over the other. Very few of us in this thread truly possess a thorough enough understanding of human nutrition to decisively comment anyway. I don't at least.
I will say this though - just based on what the layman knows about nutrition, it is incredibly intuitive to think that eating more fruit and vegetables is good for you. I mean, there's certainly nothing bad in them unless you're eating absurd quantities, and you do feel genuinely better if you include more of them in your diet, and I doubt you'll find many nutritionists that will challenge this point.
Also, in my opinion, the whole raw food thing is blown a bit out of proportion by its practioners. It's a great diet, and is working very well for me, but you will find some pretty militant raw vegans out there who are extremely aggressive in propagating their views to others, probably to the detriment of their argument
But I mean, frying isn't as healthy as boiling, roasting isn't as healthy as steaming etc. because they contain cooked oil. It's not like a raw/cooked divide right down the middle, there is grey area.
And ultimately, until clear evidence emerges, rather than the somewhat murky, anecdotal evidence we have right now, the only thing you can do is what works for you. Try dramatically increasing your consumption of greens for a week, or replacing some of your carbs and sugar with bananas and fruit and see what happens. There's enough evidence to indicate that you won't keel over dead, and its an interesting experiment to do, and I didn't want to go back to a high grain/fried food diet afterwards.
Just sharing some of the latest events related with strict vegan diets on this side of the Atlantic. Im not against any kind of diet at all and this is not to refrain anyone from trying it. The objective is to alert anyone that might be feeling "fundamentalist" about it that tolerance is one of humanity best features.
Negativity not intended, just using it to fuel the discussion. Very interesting untill now, thank you
On April 15 2011 07:40 Piy wrote: One of the biggest problems is that the second someone posts a link, there will immediately be someone who posts a counter link and a fight begins between two people ill equipped to have one. You can just look on the internet and find studies linking Raw Food to reversing diabetes and cancer, and another where people claim that a vegan diet leads to chronic life threatening conditions after only a few years of eating it. Shit is pretty easy to find for both, same with vegan/non vegan - but I definitely don't want to commit to one side over the other. Very few of us in this thread truly possess a thorough enough understanding of human nutrition to decisively comment anyway. I don't at least.
I will say this though - just based on what the layman knows about nutrition, it is incredibly intuitive to think that eating more fruit and vegetables is good for you. I mean, there's certainly nothing bad in them unless you're eating absurd quantities, and you do feel genuinely better if you include more of them in your diet, and I doubt you'll find many nutritionists that will challenge this point.
Also, in my opinion, the whole raw food thing is blown a bit out of proportion by its practioners. It's a great diet, and is working very well for me, but you will find some pretty militant raw vegans out there who are extremely aggressive in propagating their views to others, probably to the detriment of their argument
But I mean, frying isn't as healthy as boiling, roasting isn't as healthy as steaming etc. because they contain cooked oil. It's not like a raw/cooked divide right down the middle, there is grey area.
And ultimately, until clear evidence emerges, rather than the somewhat murky, anecdotal evidence we have right now, the only thing you can do is what works for you. Try dramatically increasing your consumption of greens for a week, or replacing some of your carbs and sugar with bananas and fruit and see what happens. There's enough evidence to indicate that you won't keel over dead, and its an interesting experiment to do, and I didn't want to go back to a high grain/fried food diet afterwards.
Very well said, I absolutely agree. It's probably most likely that optimal human nutrition is more nuanced and more complicated than anybody on this forum (myself included) knows. Taking a moderate stance to diet by making small adjustments over time, being able to compromise with what your medical professional advises you to do, and getting regular medical examinations to ensure that your diet isn't immediately or blatantly causing harm is probably the best course of action for layperson's like ourselves to take.
Also, I agree with you on how some people overblow the raw food diet (or any other currently popular diet). I think that whenever someone makes an extravagant nutritional/medical claim ("Eat raw food, cure your cancer!") that we ought to be really skeptical. Human nutrition isn't simple enough to be encapsulated in one-liners like that.
Oh, and personally, I never eat any red meat or poultry, but I eat sushi sometimes (sooooo good, I can't help myself lol), so I'm a semi-veggie I guess. Lots of fruits and veggies and whole grains, moderate amounts of dairy, and even some occasional exercise! Doc says I'm as healthy as they get. ^^
Edit: Wow and that article was really interesting but very sad. They even took their baby to the doctor and were told something was wrong, but they ignored it I guess. ( So pointless. It's like hearing of those prayer healing churches; some people just don't trust medical professionals and so children die of totally curable things.
Omg, those people in the article should get their sentence. Stupidity is not a reason to let a person die. That said i think there's nothing wrong with going vegan if you just make sure you get the right nutrition. I have no problem with people going vegan but please don't look wierd at me or be disrespectful when i'm enjoying my nice red steak TYVM
On April 15 2011 07:58 Escapist wrote: Just sharing some of the latest events related with strict vegan diets on this side of the Atlantic. Im not against any kind of diet at all and this is not to refrain anyone from trying it. The objective is to alert anyone that might be feeling "fundamentalist" about it that tolerance is one of humanity best features.
Negativity not intended, just using it to fuel the discussion. Very interesting untill now, thank you
Peace.
I think the main thing in that article is that they fed the baby nothing but breast milk. A non-vegan couple could do the same thing and it would result in the baby's death. I mentioned earlier in the thread though how vegans need to be actively taking b12 supplements or alternatively find a fortified source of it through soy milk or vegemite, for example.
I may not be a vegetarian, but there's one thing I've noticed to be true, at least in the US, which is that non-vegetarians tend to eat VERY little fruits and vegetables. It's quite ridiculous how many people I know go weeks without so much as a single vegetable (and I'm sorry, that one piece of lettuce/tomato on your burger does NOT count).
Even if you don't want to choose the extreme, the body still needs vegetables people... and we wonder why so many people are unhealthy these days.
On April 15 2011 07:58 Escapist wrote: Just sharing some of the latest events related with strict vegan diets on this side of the Atlantic. Im not against any kind of diet at all and this is not to refrain anyone from trying it. The objective is to alert anyone that might be feeling "fundamentalist" about it that tolerance is one of humanity best features.
Negativity not intended, just using it to fuel the discussion. Very interesting untill now, thank you
Peace.
Neglect is neglect. I'm sure there were many non-vegan babies that died from malnutrition but didn't make the news. It irritates me how people dismiss a whole belief based on one isolated case. It also irritates me that this was written/posted here at all.
On April 13 2011 17:38 Ghostcom wrote: Raw food is actually pretty dangerous... There is a pretty good reason why all civilisations have heated up their food beyond 60 degrees; germs you know...
O god lol. These kinds of people. Now I regret posting. I don't understand why people post withought doing some research first. Of course there are a few SELECT foods that are dangerous raw. Do you think I eat those foods? A banana is raw, is that dangerous? thanks.
I'm not going into a lengthy debate about this, but I happen to work at the department of infectious diseases at a university hospital as a doctor, so I actually have a clue... There have been studies regarding raw-food where they compare it to cooked food and the conclusions were:
1) Raw-food lacks COMPLETELY in the vitamin D-department (you get it mostly from fish and eggs).
2) Betacaroten bloodlevel content is twice as high in asparagus, 3 times as high in onions and 5 times as high in carrots when they are cooked compared to raw.
3) It is pretty hard to get enough proteins and iron, just as it is with a vegan diet and you are going to lack in the long fatty chain department.
4) The thought that lies behind raw-food which is that enzymes are destroyed when heated above 42 degrees and that if you don't heat them above said temperature you can utilize said enzymes is wrong. The enzymes are destroyed anyhow as soon as they reach the acidic enviroment in your stomach.
This is not to belittle the choice you've made - you can eat whatever you want for me. It's merely the facts.
EDIT: And for the future, please keep your personal insults and belittling remarks at the door. There is really no reason for them and they only make you seem insecure >_>
And now, gogogogogo more recipies - I for one could definitely use more veggies in my diet and I'm looking for inspiration on how to make it more interesting
1) Most people actually don’t get vitamin D from their diet, because it is produced naturally in the body after being exposed to sunlight
2) As I stated, there are a SELECT group of foods that have increased nutritional value when cooking them. As stated in my previous post I admitted that. However, as I said be4 most foods lose a portion of their nutritional content when cooked.
3) 1 oz. or my raw jungle peanuts has 7 grams of protein. Thanks though. Pumpkin seeds have an insane amount of iron and protein. Nuts and seeds are plenty to cover the iron and protein areas.
4) Just lol.
A poorly planned diet or any kind will be lacking.
Your facts are not facts.
If you really want to have this discussion I will be more than happy to do it in PMs, but I'm not willing to derail this thread any further.
But I will leave you with this:
1) 80% of the Scandinavian population is vitamin D-deficient, the sun is pretty far from being enough for the vast majority of the western civilizations population, the dietary intake is fairly important as well.
2) Your select group of foods is a lot bigger than you make it sound.
3) Congratulations? See the explanation about essential aminoacids written by someone else further up. I'm not saying it's impossible to get enough protein, just that it is very hard. There is a reason why one of the central questions are if people are having special diets when admitting them to the hospital - and attempt at good service isn't the one...
4) Glad to make you happy - yet that is the most used pseudo-scientific argument for why raw-food is TEH SHIZZLE. And as with many other pseudo-scientific arguments it's wrong.
Again, if you want to eat raw-food, be my guest, if it makes you happy, well congratulations - I'm not here to "turn you around". I'm originally here to steal your recipies, but when I see someone praising a potentially dangerous and lifethreatening diet I feel I have to voice my concerns that people eating raw-food run the risk of deficiencysyndroms unless they plan carefully.
1) I live in California. I am Raw Vegan. I am not deficient in vitamin D (nor anything else). If this is a problem for someone, then take a vegan multi vitamin. Case closed.
2) You named about 3 foods that benefit from cooking out of thousands. There is a reasons why there are only a handful of specific known foods that benefit from cooking. It is because it is generally known that the cooking process in MOST foods DESTROYS some nutrients. Otherewise it would be the other way aorund and they would be listing the handful of few specific foods that are more nutrient dense raw. But this isnt the case. Becuase infact, MOST foods are more nutritious raw.
As I already stated some foods can't be eaten raw. So don't eat them....
3) Again a poorly planned diet of any kind will be lacking and dangerous. Getting the proper amino acids is not a problem with minimal research. I'm not sure why you are making it out to be. It involves a few minutes of research and then eating the food.
If someone can't be bothered to do the reseach or for peace of mind, then take "Sunwarrior" raw vegan protein powder for a complete amino acid profile. Case closed.
You make it seem like by eating raw vegan food I'm eating food from Mars or something. I eat Raw fruits and veggies just like you do (as well as seeds, nuts, some raw food bars, a small amount of supplements etc). I simply do not eat cooked or non vegan food (most of the time, see below).
As I stated I am 100% Vegan and 90% raw. So I do eat cooked vegan food on occasion and do take a small amount of supplements for peace of mind. I am not here to preach. Veggie, Vegan, Raw Vegan... its all good to me. Hell if you want to eat meat I dont care. Everyone has a choice.
Supplementing is not required all the time, but for beginers or peace of mind it can be done There is no shame in it. People of all walks of life take some form of supplements be it red bull, coffee, herbs, prescription drugs etc etc.
I had hoped this thread would not turn into a shitstorm. And that it would be a great source of information and recipes. However, I expected it. This is why I do not generally talk about veganism in general forums or online at all. Hell even talking with people in person can be laughable. Meat eaters always come and tell us were wrong with "facts" that they heard from some study done by some people funded by the meat and dairy industy. People are so close minded lots of times and have their blinders on regarding this subject. Stepping outside of their comfort zone and doing some actual non biased research isnt something alot of people like to do. People like to do what they have always done. There are lots of common sense reasons why eating meat and dairy is not "needed" in the video below. Its the most basic of common sense that it can't be debated.
Peace and Love and Peace out
P.S. I will leave you all with this video. It provides a wealth of information on vegnanism in general. The best video on this subject I have seen.
Watched that last night. It's a very solid arguement (despite Gary's lameness ) and really presents veganism as a logical and pragmatic lifestyle. I suggest any skeptics watch this.
What do you guys do on your daily cooking to make sure that you're not missing vitamins or amino acids? I often look at what I have to cook, and have no idea what should I put together with what to make a complete meal.
For example. I have rice, beans and brocolis right now. What do I need to add to that to make a complete meal?
And this is just one example, how can I look up some information on how that works? I did try to do some research on that on some vegetarian sites. But most just give generalized info like "just try to have a lot of variety" and "soy has most of the protein you need". I know those, but I don't wanna put every single type of fruit on every single meal every day. Nor do I wanna eat soy every day. So how can I always be sure that I have a complete meal?
On April 15 2011 23:43 VIB wrote: What do you guys do on your daily cooking to make sure that you're not missing vitamins or amino acids? I often look at what I have to cook, and have no idea what should I put together with what to make a complete meal.
For example. I have rice, beans and brocolis right now. What do I need to add to that to make a complete meal?
And this is just one example, how can I look up some information on how that works? I did try to do some research on that on some vegetarian sites. But most just give generalized info like "just try to have a lot of variety" and "soy has most of the protein you need". I know those, but I don't wanna put every single type of fruit on every single meal every day. Nor do I wanna eat soy every day. So how can I always be sure that I have a complete meal?
I either use recipe sites and edit out animal products just to give me a basic idea of what i'm going for, you just have to tweak it so it doesn't taste like meat-less meat dishes. OR i improvise which is very lol. It's just a matter of experience and knowing what tastes good with what. It's a problem not entirely specific to vegans/vegetarians too.
It's also having a multitude of recipes, having one dish with specific things you need, then spreading them out so you cover your bases.
I've kind of been neglecting my eating lately, i should think more about my diet...
On April 15 2011 23:43 VIB wrote: What do you guys do on your daily cooking to make sure that you're not missing vitamins or amino acids? I often look at what I have to cook, and have no idea what should I put together with what to make a complete meal.
For example. I have rice, beans and brocolis right now. What do I need to add to that to make a complete meal?
And this is just one example, how can I look up some information on how that works? I did try to do some research on that on some vegetarian sites. But most just give generalized info like "just try to have a lot of variety" and "soy has most of the protein you need". I know those, but I don't wanna put every single type of fruit on every single meal every day. Nor do I wanna eat soy every day. So how can I always be sure that I have a complete meal?
I either use recipe sites and edit out animal products just to give me a basic idea of what i'm going for, you just have to tweak it so it doesn't taste like meat-less meat dishes. OR i improvise which is very lol. It's just a matter of experience and knowing what tastes good with what. It's a problem not entirely specific to vegans/vegetarians too.
It's also having a multitude of recipes, having one dish with specific things you need, then spreading them out so you cover your bases.
I've kind of been neglecting my eating lately, i should think more about my diet...
I'm not talking about taste. I suppose I can handle that part well by just adding the right spices. But I'm worried about eating healthy stuff and not missing anything. Don't you even bother trying to figure if your meal is missing something and trying to mix things up in a way so it's complete for your "daily nutrition needs"?
Until two years ago, I would have told you veganism is the way to go. Since then, personal experiences and research has led me to believe otherwise.
We evolved eating meat. Without it, many people, and everybody I know who has gone without for an extended period of time, develop major health issues. My girlfriend, for example, was a vegetarian for seven years. By the end she was getting sick once or twice a month and had stopped having her period. She started eating meat again a year ago. She has gotten sick once since, and her period became regular again in a month or two. For an account of a 20 year vegan who's body is decimated and warns against the practice, read "The Vegetarian Myth".
The problem with the meat we get at the store today is not that it is meat, but that it is fed corn and soy, instead of natural grasses or whatever else it would naturally eat. This creates a fat ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 that is way out of natures balance (around 1:1). Since omega six fats are inflammatory, and greatly increased by a grain diet, this is a source of a lot of our health problems, along with hormones, pesticides, and the consumptions of grains themselves. It's also obviously not cool that we torture the animals we eat, but we torture the people who make our clothes, and I don't think the solution to that problem is to stop wearing clothes.
Think about it. When did we start eating wheat, soy, corn, and other grains? Only ten thousand years ago, at most, with the coming of the agriculture revolution in a few parts of the world. This is nothing in terms of evolutionary time. Our bodies are not adapted to the consumption of these foods, which begins to explain why so many people have allergies to these foods, or develop Celiac disease.
We evolved on a diet of wild, grass-fed meats, greens, tart wild fruit (like berries) and nuts. It seems to me, and many people who study this, that this is where we should look to begin to talk about what a healthy diet would be.
I really encourage people to look into this, whether you eat meet or not. I feel it has saved me from a life of fatigue and chronic illness.
Every time Artosis talks about vegetarianism, it makes me sad and I want to have a heart to heart with him. Why is Tastosis so good at making you feel like they are your buddies?
Yeah. Im on board with VIB. I've not eaten meat for a long time now, and in the process of cutting dairy, im still alive, but I know there's a vast amount of knowledge im not familiar with regarding the nurtririon my body needs. I expect someone to call us out and tell us that we should look online, which I am doing, but its always interesting to hear about the anecdotes of people who have gone through a similar change.
On April 16 2011 00:15 CorporationsRule wrote: Until two years ago, I would have told you veganism is the way to go. Since then, personal experiences and research has led me to believe otherwise.
We evolved eating meat. Without it, many people, and everybody I know who has gone without for an extended period of time, develop major health issues. My girlfriend, for example, was a vegetarian for seven years. By the end she was getting sick once or twice a month and had stopped having her period. She started eating meat again a year ago. She has gotten sick once since, and her period became regular again in a month or two. For an account of a 20 year vegan who's body is decimated and warns against the practice, read "The Vegetarian Myth".
The problem with the meat we get at the store today is not that it is meat, but that it is fed corn and soy, instead of natural grasses or whatever else it would naturally eat. This creates a fat ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 that is way out of natures balance (around 1:1). Since omega six fats are inflammatory, and greatly increased by a grain diet, this is a source of a lot of our health problems, along with hormones, pesticides, and the consumptions of grains themselves. It's also obviously not cool that we torture the animals we eat, but we torture the people who make our clothes, and I don't think the solution to that problem is to stop wearing clothes.
Think about it. When did we start eating wheat, soy, corn, and other grains? Only ten thousand years ago, at most, with the coming of the agriculture revolution in a few parts of the world. This is nothing in terms of evolutionary time. Our bodies are not adapted to the consumption of these foods, which begins to explain why so many people have allergies to these foods, or develop Celiac disease.
We evolved on a diet of wild, grass-fed meats, greens, tart wild fruit (like berries) and nuts. It seems to me, and many people who study this, that this is where we should look to begin to talk about what a healthy diet would be.
I really encourage people to look into this, whether you eat meet or not. I feel it has saved me from a life of fatigue and chronic illness.
Every time Artosis talks about vegetarianism, it makes me sad and I want to have a heart to heart with him. Why is Tastosis so good at making you feel like they are your buddies?
Do you think that what you say we miss from meat we could get from dairy products? Legit question.
On April 15 2011 14:11 forgotten0ne wrote: I may not be a vegetarian, but there's one thing I've noticed to be true, at least in the US, which is that non-vegetarians tend to eat VERY little fruits and vegetables. It's quite ridiculous how many people I know go weeks without so much as a single vegetable (and I'm sorry, that one piece of lettuce/tomato on your burger does NOT count).
Even if you don't want to choose the extreme, the body still needs vegetables people... and we wonder why so many people are unhealthy these days.
I could never be a vegetarian because my girlfriend is a serious carnivore, but we eat loooots of vegetables/fruit and in fact we feel incredibly bad if we just eat starches/meat for 2-3 days. I think its more that the white/black people who have been living in the US for a long time just don't know how to cook vegetables. Most first and second generation immigrants (afro caribbeans, African africans, middle eastern, and asian) in my area tend to shop at this store that sells lots of different kinds of fruits, vegetables, and seafood whereas the black and white people who have been here for hundreds of years go to the big grocery store with only the common vegetables which are overpriced and limited seafood.
[/QUOTE] Do you think that what you say we miss from meat we could get from dairy products? Legit question. [/QUOTE]
The jury in my head is out on that one. Lierre Keith, who wrote the book I mentioned, "The Vegetarian Myth", drinks tons of raw (unpastuerized) milk produced by grass-fed cows. She says she needs as much fat as she can get every three hours or so to help lower the amount of pain she is in from damage she has done to things like her spine from being vegan. The guy who wrote "The Paleo-Diet" thinks we didn't start drinking milk until recently in terms of evolutionary time, and therefore shouldn't be drinking it.
Neither of them think you can replace whatever is in meat with dairy. Part of the evolutionary diet perspective is to admit that we can never fully understand anything in science because the world is infinitely complex, so to be able to say "after analyzing milk I think it has everything you need" even though it is not what we evolved eating (after being weened from our mother's breast milk of course) is not something that can ever be completely proven.
With regards to the article about breast feeding above, the problem they had with that baby doesn't seem to me to be that they breast fed the baby, which evolution would say has to be the way to go, at least until around two, but that the women's breast milk was not nourishing because she was vegan. That her milk lacked the proper fats would be my guess.
Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
That's cool and all, but how exactly do I plan my diet to make sure I'm eating all my daily needs? I read from vegan sites saying there are different types of protein you need from different vegetables etc. But I never found which ones have what of what I need so I can plan what to cook. Any help?
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
I think what we're seeing here is the issues raised when people begin to bring anecdotal evidence into the debate. Yes you see stories of vegan couple's children dieing or becoming seriously defficient, and girls whose periods stop, but you can also find large amounts of stories of people who have reversed terrible health problems, haven't experienced any of the problems listed above, and been vegan/raw vegan for 30+ years.
Then you get the humans evolved as meat eaters argument or not, which looks at only an isolated period of human evolution, but is ultimately inconclusive on either side. We probably ate mostly plant foods + insects for a long time because they were all we could forage, with insects making a small percentage of the total calories consumed.
It just all depends on personal experience. Some people have great success on a vegan diet, others become ill. I would argue that becoming ill is a result of a poorly planned diet, not the vegan diet itself, but this is just from my personal experience with long term vegans, many of whom are far healthier now than previously.
Thing is is that isolated people eating meat or eating vegan will have random health problems that you can blame on diet. Meat eater gets colon cancer? Meat diet. Raw vegan gets iron deficiency? must be diet. Meat eater gets iron deficiency? must be something else.
It's just all anecdotal, and it's not that these stories shouldn't be brought up in this thread, it's just that you shouldn't quote a bunch of them as evidence that is irrefutable, it just incites anger from the opposite camp.
VIB, you'll get people saying you need meat and dairy to be healthy, noone can really prove they're wrong, but vegan diets do work very well for a lot of people, and provided you are careful to not undereat and eat a lot of fruits and greens, which have ridiculous amounts of nutrition relative to calories, I would say you would be fine based on my experience with the diet. Particularly if you eat a lot of almonds/flax seeds/walnuts/sunflower seeds etc. a lot of deficiencies can eliminated.
There are extremely long term vegans who test at a perfect level in everything after thirty years, so I really don't think we can explicitly say that veganism, even without supplementation, leads to B12 deficiency.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Herbivores have canines as well. Having canines does not make you a carnivore. I don't know about you, but the tops of my canines are indeed flat. Not very effective at tearing or cutting meat.
Hi all! Great discussion that's taking place here. I do have some things that I would like to add in a, hopefully, non-offensive manner:
What would happen if, overnight, the entire Human population turned vegetarian? This is certainly an extreme idea, but regardless, what would happen to Earth's ecosystem? Would the Earth be able to support the necessary cropland that is required of this?
In addition to this, I propose the following question: If killing animals for consumption is wrong, what about the killing of other organisms for the production of crops (deforestation, pesticides, etc.)? Is one okay, but the other not?
These are things that I have thought about for years and would value your opinions that are based on scientific inquiry (i.e., it is detrimental to fling about unsupported thoughts).
On April 12 2011 03:36 sylverfyre wrote: I'm not a vegetarian, but my girlfriend (with whom I live) is. Gonna agree that pre-prepared vegetarian food is generally pretty meh (even she won't touch a boca burger with a 10 foot pole, for example.) but you can do some really amazing things with fresh produce and some time to cook. I've added a lot of vegetarian recipes to my list of things I can cook (Spinach Lasagna, a bunch of awesome things involving zucchini and broccoli, etc.)
Man that sounds good. Do you reckon you could add that spinach lasagne recipe?
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Clearly you missed human anat. or phys. in your "medical" training. Plant eater's have the type of "k9"s we have.....If people would take some time out of their lives to watch the video 99% of this silly meat eater logic would not be gone from this thread.
On April 16 2011 10:41 Davey wrote: Hi all! Great discussion that's taking place here. I do have some things that I would like to add in a, hopefully, non-offensive manner:
What would happen if, overnight, the entire Human population turned vegetarian? This is certainly an extreme idea, but regardless, what would happen to Earth's ecosystem? Would the Earth be able to support the necessary cropland that is required of this?
In addition to this, I propose the following question: If killing animals for consumption is wrong, what about the killing of other organisms for the production of crops (deforestation, pesticides, etc.)? Is one okay, but the other not?
These are things that I have thought about for years and would value your opinions that are based on scientific inquiry (i.e., it is detrimental to fling about unsupported thoughts).
Most of deforisation is do to the factory farming of the meat and dairy industy. The land and resources used for plant food requires a great deal less than for meat. For example the resources on 1 acre of land can barley support 1 cow. However with the same resouces on 1 acre of land you can grow 80,000 pounds of potatos.
It's fairly common sense. We feed the majority of the earths main crops (soy, grains, water, corn etc) to factory farmed animals....and then the humans eat the animals. It is a matter of cutting out the "middle man" we do not need to eat animals. We can eat the plant resorces ourselves.
I'm not going to go did up links and references. The info is out there, alot of it even provided by the meat industry, usda etc. But the "middle man" logic should be common sense. If not I think human kind is doomed. We dont need to factory farm animals to eat them. Lets just eat the resources ourselves people! It's better for them and the earth and our future great grand kids....thats if you want them to have a nice place to live.
Someone asked about what foods to combine to get proper protein and amino acids. Generally you combine the legumes group with nuts and seeds for a complete protein source. Or you can take something like "Sunwarrior" raw protein powder for a complete amino acid profile if you live a busy life or are competing in sports etc.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
But now we have the technology and nutritional insight to not eat meat but still maintain our health. Please read the thread before presenting an arguement because i have already rebuked this idea.
Good points, it is estimated that 40-50% of humanities entire grain harvest goes to feed farm animals anually. If we were to simply eat the grain without producing meat it is not unreasonable that every person on the planet could be fed with an average of close to 4,000 calories a day.
However, because energy transmission from plants to animals to humans is very inefficient, and we produce far more meat than we really need (heart disease is the number one killer of people in the developed world), we see the food shortages that are currently taking place. It is estimated that humanity will have to increase its food production substantially in the near future, meaning that meat production will decrease.
On April 16 2011 11:54 Aurocaido wrote: Good points, it is estimated that 40-50% of humanities entire grain harvest goes to feed farm animals anually. If we were to simply eat the grain without producing meat it is not unreasonable that every person on the planet could be fed with an average of close to 4,000 calories a day.
However, because energy transmission from plants to animals to humans is very inefficient, and we produce far more meat than we really need (heart disease is the number one killer of people in the developed world), we see the food shortages that are currently taking place. It is estimated that humanity will have to increase its food production substantially in the near future, meaning that meat production will decrease.
As great as this argument is (I've used it), the reason half the world is starving is social inequality: not hypothetical food production capacity.
Vegetarian myself. Been thinking of going vegan for a couple months, but it's a difficult jump. I still live with my parents, so I think maybe once I move out the vegan switch will be easier with 100% control over what gets bought when (foodwise).
Great looking recipes on the OP! I'll try some out this weekend
This thread is like the yin to the "how many beating animal hearts have you swallowed?" thread's yang.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
But now we have the technology and nutritional insight to not eat meat but still maintain our health. Please read the thread before presenting an arguement because i have already rebuked this idea.
You haven't disproved this "arguement" just by saying we have "nutritional insight." What exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? Grains? Soy products? Do you intend to talk about the lipid hypothesis under the assumption that all science is infallible?
Sounds to me like you're just dodging valid research.
I became vegetarian about 10 years ago, I was about 20, has been easy, except for people asking me "why did you become vegetarian" so I try to avoid the subject
I tend to get very lethargic if I don't keep up vitamin B12 levels, which is very hard to do on a vegetarian diet, so I usually take tablets. Other than that, a general balanced diet works good.
I am always amused when overweight unfit people get all concerned about whether I am getting enough nutrients
On April 12 2011 03:35 frogurt wrote: Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
On April 16 2011 11:54 Aurocaido wrote: Good points, it is estimated that 40-50% of humanities entire grain harvest goes to feed farm animals anually. If we were to simply eat the grain without producing meat it is not unreasonable that every person on the planet could be fed with an average of close to 4,000 calories a day.
However, because energy transmission from plants to animals to humans is very inefficient, and we produce far more meat than we really need (heart disease is the number one killer of people in the developed world), we see the food shortages that are currently taking place. It is estimated that humanity will have to increase its food production substantially in the near future, meaning that meat production will decrease.
As great as this argument is (I've used it), the reason half the world is starving is social inequality: not hypothetical food production capacity.
Vegetarian myself. Been thinking of going vegan for a couple months, but it's a difficult jump. I still live with my parents, so I think maybe once I move out the vegan switch will be easier with 100% control over what gets bought when (foodwise).
Great looking recipes on the OP! I'll try some out this weekend
This thread is like the yin to the "how many beating animal hearts have you swallowed?" thread's yang.
It's not just about feeding starving people. The point is that we are factory farming animals when we can simply eat the plant resources and water ourselves. The death is not needed. It is a terrible waste of resources, land, etc. Also factory farming is the main reason for deforistation. So much more goes along with this. Factory farms are also the #1 cause of polluting clean water lakes and rivers. The list goes on. There are what 7 billion people on this planet? 50 years from now there will be billions more people. Earth is not getting any bigger.
On April 16 2011 11:54 Aurocaido wrote: Good points, it is estimated that 40-50% of humanities entire grain harvest goes to feed farm animals anually. If we were to simply eat the grain without producing meat it is not unreasonable that every person on the planet could be fed with an average of close to 4,000 calories a day.
However, because energy transmission from plants to animals to humans is very inefficient, and we produce far more meat than we really need (heart disease is the number one killer of people in the developed world), we see the food shortages that are currently taking place. It is estimated that humanity will have to increase its food production substantially in the near future, meaning that meat production will decrease.
As great as this argument is (I've used it), the reason half the world is starving is social inequality: not hypothetical food production capacity.
Vegetarian myself. Been thinking of going vegan for a couple months, but it's a difficult jump. I still live with my parents, so I think maybe once I move out the vegan switch will be easier with 100% control over what gets bought when (foodwise).
Great looking recipes on the OP! I'll try some out this weekend
This thread is like the yin to the "how many beating animal hearts have you swallowed?" thread's yang.
People are not starving because of inequality, they are staving because of poverty. Poverty and inequality are not the same thing. Meat is many times more expensive than grain.
On April 15 2011 14:11 forgotten0ne wrote: ... and we wonder why so many people are unhealthy these days.
Really? Who wonders that? I'm pretty sure everyone knows why...I mean, that's not...not a big mystery or anything. There's no Ripley's Believe it or Not about "Why so many people are fat" or anything.
On April 16 2011 05:44 CorporationsRule wrote: Part of the evolutionary diet perspective is to admit that we can never fully understand anything in science because the world is infinitely complex, so to be able to say "after analyzing milk I think it has everything you need" even though it is not what we evolved eating (after being weened from our mother's breast milk of course) is not something that can ever be completely proven.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Just disregard everything humanity has learned over thousands of years and try to eat like cavemen did? What was the average life expectancy for a caveman? How about height?
"Hey, this 4'9'', toothless man who's middle-aged at 20 seems like he's got everything figured out, what with his total disregard for personal hygiene and his incomprehension of toilet paper. Give me what he's having!"
Jeez, I heard about the "paleo-diet" and I thought it made a lot of sense, but I also assumed that there was some actually science behind it. I mean, how do these people think we even know what cavemen ate at all? Is that really the basis for the idea? That is just absurd.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
But now we have the technology and nutritional insight to not eat meat but still maintain our health. Please read the thread before presenting an arguement because i have already rebuked this idea.
You haven't disproved this "arguement" just by saying we have "nutritional insight." What exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? Grains? Soy products? Do you intend to talk about the lipid hypothesis under the assumption that all science is infallible?
Sounds to me like you're just dodging valid research.
"This hypothesis also provides an explanation for the early apparent correlation between encephalization in the early homonids and the incorporation of increasingly large amounts of animal derived food into the diet."
I'm not saying this research is wrong, i agree that animal derived food allowed our brains to develop. What i mean by nutritional insight is that we now understand what nutrients we require to maintain our bodies and can develop alternatives to animal derived food. Note the term "early homonids," which means dependence on meat is specific to primates and not modern humans
On April 16 2011 12:00 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
On April 16 2011 11:51 frogurt wrote:
On April 16 2011 09:36 eshlow wrote:
On April 16 2011 08:44 frogurt wrote:
On April 16 2011 07:14 Ghostcom wrote:
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
But now we have the technology and nutritional insight to not eat meat but still maintain our health. Please read the thread before presenting an arguement because i have already rebuked this idea.
You haven't disproved this "arguement" just by saying we have "nutritional insight." What exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? Grains? Soy products? Do you intend to talk about the lipid hypothesis under the assumption that all science is infallible?
Sounds to me like you're just dodging valid research.
"This hypothesis also provides an explanation for the early apparent correlation between encephalization in the early homonids and the incorporation of increasingly large amounts of animal derived food into the diet."
I'm not saying this research is wrong, i agree that animal derived food allowed our brains to develop. What i mean by nutritional insight is that we now understand what nutrients we require to maintain our bodies and can develop alternatives to animal derived food.Note the term "early homonids," which means dependence on meat is specific to primates and not modern humans
So what you're saying is that opposed to it being good for us to eat the foods our ancestors ate, we have new "nutritional insight" (I love the lack of any real clarity on this by the way) that shows we can do this artificially, under the assumption that any artificially created foods in the history of mankind have ever been anything less than detrimental to our health?
The problem I have with veganism isn't on a moral level. I think that if you all oppose the meat industry, it is a completely fair thing to do. I just dislike the vast amounts of misinformation and lack of evidence you base it all on.
How is now knowing what nutrients we need and being aware of it and getting them soley from plants artificial? Last time I checked plants weren't artificial. What he ment was alternative to the typical meat eating diet. Not specifically something artificial I believe. You makes 0 sense. Every single thing that our body needs has a plant source, even B12. How in the world do you think the animals your eating (the vegan or semi vegan ones) get their nutrients lol.
If someone is concerned they can take a small amount of vegan supplements. It's no more artificial than someone drinking a coke.
On April 16 2011 14:37 Aurocaido wrote: He has many times, it's the meat eating fanatics who do not provide evidence.
he posted one video, and that's it...
The video is based on some highly questionable research results (I didn't watch it, I read the summary), and I found no credible research backing up these claims.
You can eat whatever you want, and I'll be more than happy to learn new things, but please provide some reasonable publications to back up various claims.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Herbivores have canines as well. Having canines does not make you a carnivore. I don't know about you, but the tops of my canines are indeed flat. Not very effective at tearing or cutting meat.
The tops of your molars might be flat, but surely not your canines....
And whilst your movie is fancy, it is also wrong. The reason for the human to have survived so brilliantly in all the different millieus of this world is our skill to adapt. The human race isn't solely herbivore nor carnivore, we are equipped with the needed systems for both. And just to mention a single carnivore trait: Where are your eyes placed? On the side of your head like a deer? Or are they both pointing forward? This is one of the most common feat of all landliving carnivores, but yeah, let's just ignore that one...
And yeah, I'm not even going to bother with your cheapshot - reflects more on you than it does on me... If you are that insecure, perhaps don't make catagorical statements?
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Just disregard everything humanity has learned over thousands of years and try to eat like cavemen did? What was the average life expectancy for a caveman? How about height?
"Hey, this 4'9'', toothless man who's middle-aged at 20 seems like he's got everything figured out, what with his total disregard for personal hygiene and his incomprehension of toilet paper. Give me what he's having!"
Jeez, I heard about the "paleo-diet" and I thought it made a lot of sense, but I also assumed that there was some actually science behind it. I mean, how do these people think we even know what cavemen ate at all? Is that really the basis for the idea? That is just absurd.
Dude, you really need to take an anthropology class, or get a book. People shrank in areas where the agricultural revolution took hold. They also began to get arthritis and other auto immune diseases. Intact hunter-gatherer tribes are invariably healthy. There life expectancy is shorter mainly due to infant mortality rates, which is not diet related...Although I did relate that infant death in the vegan article to the mother's diet, so...
Anyway, be sure you actually have some knowledge about something before you start spouting off about it. Primitive life was hardly "nasty, brutish, and short", random off-the-top-of-one's-head Hobbesian racist rants aside.
And to the guy who said something about the "meat fanatics" not providing evidence, somebody posted "The Expansive-Tissue Hypothesis" above, a peer-reviewed paper that has come to represent the consensus on this subject in the scientific community. The guys summary, that "meat made us human", pretty much sums it up.
And if you think this represents some conspiracy of meat industry funding, think about the fact that the soy, corn, and grain industries (which also use factory farming methods) dwarf the meat industry, and are in fact an important part of the US imperial system. Notice you don't hear about them so much. Who is pulling the strings?
"Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people."--Henry Kissinger
I think both sides are missing a huge point, which is, there is more the world than vegans and pure meat eaters lol.
I found for myself that the slow carb diet works best for me, so my eating is based on veggies/meats/nuts and some legumes. I am sure you can away with a vegan diet, but u gotta be careful to get all nutrients and not overeat grains (eating rice/pasta 10 times a week is not healthy)
What I really think problem with modern diet is the amount of people who eat sugary crap all day long. Wake up, bread and butter (or worse, cereal) with high sugar fruit juice or milk with added sugar.
Lunch rice with meat at best, or a bunch of hot dogs, bread again at noon, and finally a ton of pasta and rice. Ah, the sometimes add some fruits (with sugar lulz) to say they are eating healthy. Not to mention eating oreos and drinking tons of coke trough the day.
I'm not here to write a reseach paper and provide a list of links and essays. The internet is free. Chose to take out of it what you want. Google is your friend. Everything I mentioned can be found. Like I said many of the facts I stated about deforistation, the majority of main crops being used by factoring farms (soy, water, corn, grains, wheat) etc etc. Much of the data that reflects badly on the meat and dairy industries they even provide themselves. However, I spent 2 minutes and came up with 10 or so links about what factory farming does to the earth. Spend 2 hours and come up with 1 link telling me how factory farming and killing animals is heping anything. It's ok. I'll wait.
As stated a few pages back. Providing links won't do anything. because some meat eat will just come with a link of info paid for by the dairy industry.
The funny thing is the meat and dairy industries have something to gain. MONEY. Vegans are not trying to gain anything for themselves per se. We are trying to save lifes and the earth.
"There is more the world than vegans and pure meat eaters"
There's a pure meat eaters side? While I haven't seen anybody make an argument that human beings should ONLY eat meat, I will say that I think eating only meat would be better than going vegan.
Eskimos lived mainly on animal fat, and they were nice and healthy.
The Masai lived off dairy and blood, if my memory serves me correctly.
Neither of these groups experienced heart disease.
On April 16 2011 15:31 CorporationsRule wrote: "There is more the world than vegans and pure meat eaters"
There's a pure meat eaters side? While I haven't seen anybody make an argument that human beings should ONLY eat meat, I will say that I think eating only meat would be better than going vegan.
Eskimos lived mainly on animal fat, and they were nice and healthy.
The Masai lived off dairy and blood, if my memory serves me correctly.
Neither of these groups experienced heart disease.
"Spend 2 hours and come up with 1 link telling me how factory farming and killing animals is heping anything."
Nobody argued factory farming is good. Ever. Not once.
And you do realize most vegetables are factory farmed, right?
I buy all my meat from US Wellness Meats. It's all grass fed.
I also buy all organic vegetables, although I'm not sure I trust the government regulators to ensure that there own rather disappointing rules have been followed. I would rather buy from a local farmer I know and trust producing using sustainable permaculture methods, but I don't live near any. Actually, I'd rather just spend my days producing my food and hanging out with my community.
Buying vegetables from the grocery store is going to do nothing to stop the ecological crisis.
On April 16 2011 15:39 CorporationsRule wrote: "Spend 2 hours and come up with 1 link telling me how factory farming and killing animals is heping anything."
Nobody argued factory farming is good. Ever. Not once.
And you do realize most vegetables are factory farmed, right?
I buy all my meat from US Wellness Meats. It's all grass fed.
I also buy all organic vegetables, although I'm not sure I trust the government regulators to ensure that there own rather disappointing rules have been followed. I would rather buy from a local farmer I know and trust producing using sustainable permaculture methods, but I don't live near any. Actually, I'd rather just spend my days producing my food and hanging out with my community.
Buying vegetables from the grocery store is going to do nothing to stop the ecological crisis.
You do realizes there is a difference between factory farmed animals and plants right? This has already been covered in previous page. Please read.
Please please please do some research. Plant food requires exponentially less resources and does minmal damges campared to factory farmed meat and dairy. Please visit some of the links. it should be common sense anyways.
Just think about this. Since you did not read the last few pages. The resources on 1 acre of land can barley support 1 cow. The same resources on 1 acre can grow 80,000 pounds of patatos.
Here is common sense logic. The majority of our main crops (water, soy, corn, wheat etc) are fed to animals. Then humans eat those animals. This is called the middle man. We do not need to eat and murder the animals. We can simply use those plant resources ourselves.
I've read the literature on factory farming and the ecological crisis. The way our culture produces food is terrible. We are losing topsoil, a non-renewable resource, due to factory farming of plants, at an alarming rate. Factory farming of animals exacerbates the problem, and it's torture.
I do not see any of this as a reason to eat a diet that I feel is detrimental to my health.
Just a heads up. The plants are being factory farmed mostly FOR FACTORY FARMED ANIMALS lol. Please visit the 1st link I provided. Factory farmed animals consume a great deal of the earths water and plant matter.
Your diet is your choice. But the facts are facts.
On April 15 2011 09:27 Vain wrote: Omg, those people in the article should get their sentence. Stupidity is not a reason to let a person die. That said i think there's nothing wrong with going vegan if you just make sure you get the right nutrition. I have no problem with people going vegan but please don't look wierd at me or be disrespectful when i'm enjoying my nice red steak TYVM
Going vegan is wrong in so many ways. The way vegans think is basically unnatural and near-suicidal. The ony reason such people can actually sustain themselves is by taking a lot of pills and supplements. No way the human body can survive on what those people take in. It's basically a luxury lifestyle.
I've read through a few pages in this tread, and the amount of times I heard vegetarians say the word "pills" got me kind of worried. Is there really no way to keep all your vitamin levels etc. healthy without the use of pills?
If by luxury lifesyle you mean cheaper than eating meat? Ya it is. Last time I checked an apple was cheaper than a piece of meat. Hell a bunch of bananas is cheaper than meat. Someone made a comment on a different vegan thread be4 it got closed about how poor countries would laugh at the thought of being vegan and that it is a luxury. That comment made me want to face palm. Eating Vegan is far less expensive than eating a meat diet. Fruits and veggies are found in every part of every country. Refraining from eating meat only takes willpower and the awareness to stop. A small amount. Vietnam and India among other countries have a good amount of veggie/vegan population.
Supplements are not required with very minimal research. Idk why your calling a vitamin a pill like its crack or something. It's just silly.
For reference I am a 10 year vegan. 9 years of which have been raw vegan. Doctors and tests says I could not be much healthier. Am I superman? No. Humans are born plant eaters. The diet and lifestyle requires some amount planning. Like any diet should.
On April 16 2011 16:09 RawVeganYes wrote: If by luxury lifesyle you mean cheaper than eating meat? Ya it is. Last time I checked an apple was cheaper than a piece of meat. Hell a bunch of bananas is cheaper than meat. Someone made a comment on a different vegan thread be4 it got closed about how poor countries would laugh at the thought of being vegan and that it is a luxury. That comment made me want to face palm. Eating Vegan is far less expensive than eating a meat diet. Fruits and veggies are found in every part of every country. Refraining from eating meat only takes willpower and the awareness to stop. A small amount. Vietnam and India among other countries have a good amount of veggie/vegan population.
Supplements are not required with very minimal research. Idk why your calling a vitamin a pill like its crack or something. It's just silly.
For reference I am a 10 year vegan. 9 years of which have been raw vegan. Doctors and tests says I could not be much healthier. Am I superman? No. Humans are born plant eaters. The diet and lifestyle requires some amount planning. Like any diet should.
No... Or well, not any more than they are born meateaters... Stop spewing nonsense... And to bring up just as good evidence as you: I've never eaten anything other than a mixed diet, guess what, every single test says I couldn't be healthier... Anecdoctal evidence, isn't it awesome?
I will just let the smartest man of all time say it for me:
"Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
well my borther was vegetarian for 18 years, and vegan for i think 1 year (doesnt went to good for his health so turned it off) and now after 18 years he eats meat again. (only bio)
i often think its kind of a "style" in life and nothing wrong in it as long they not force their childrens to be so.
when i see parents let their childs be vegetarian its ok (i was vegetarian myself too before i was 14 years old because of my parents) but its not acceptable when they made them be vegan (for adult people its ok, not acceptable for childs they get rly unhealth and ill from it, even some parents in germany lost the right to grow up their childrens cause they only gave them vegan and then the childs was very ill)
so my question: what do you think about parents making their childs vegetarian vegan etc ?
Cordain, Loren (2007). "Implications of Plio-pleistocene diets for modern humans". In Peter S. Ungar. Evolution of the human diet: the known, the unkown and the unknowable. pp. 264–5.
"Since the evolutionary split between hominins and pongids approximately 7 million years ago, the available evidence shows that all species of hominins ate an omnivorous diet composed of minimally processed, wild-plant, and animal foods."
This thread is getting hopeless. I provided nearly 20 links in 5 minutes when asked, because people said I didn't have sources. Still people are stuck in their ways.
Cordain, Loren (2007). "Implications of Plio-pleistocene diets for modern humans". In Peter S. Ungar. Evolution of the human diet: the known, the unkown and the unknowable. pp. 264–5.
"Since the evolutionary split between hominins and pongids approximately 7 million years ago, the available evidence shows that all species of hominins ate an omnivorous diet composed of minimally processed, wild-plant, and animal foods."
How does this show our anatomy and phys. are designed to eat meat? It doesn't its a blurb with no real info. It says what humans ate then and now.
Do you really need me to link a source other than the video to show that humans have flat teath, a plant eater intestines, plant eater saliva enzymes, plant eater jaw, plant eater hands (not claws), plant eater sweat glands. Just look in the mirror if the video isnt enough.
On April 16 2011 16:28 CoR wrote: well my borther was vegetarian for 18 years, and vegan for i think 1 year (doesnt went to good for his health so turned it off) and now after 18 years he eats meat again. (only bio)
i often think its kind of a "style" in life and nothing wrong in it as long they not force their childrens to be so.
when i see parents let their childs be vegetarian its ok (i was vegetarian myself too before i was 14 years old because of my parents) but its not acceptable when they made them be vegan (for adult people its ok, not acceptable for childs they get rly unhealth and ill from it, even some parents in germany lost the right to grow up their childrens cause they only gave them vegan and then the childs was very ill)
so my question: what do you think about parents making their childs vegetarian vegan etc ?
I think that is silly to say that parents should not raise their kids vegan. Properly planned a vegan diet is fine for all stages of life. Hell even the FDA admits so.
People are so terrified of something that is rare and that they are lead to believe is harmful somehow. The meat and dairy industires sure have done a good job of brainwashing people. It reminds me of that commercial where they are trying to tell use high fructose corn syrup is the EXACT same as pure truely unrefined cane sugar. Face palm.
The question what to deduce about a "natural" diet from human (pre-)history gives me a headache. After skimming through different information, there was a wide variety in the percentage of meat consumption. Some hunter-gatherers ate mostly fruits and nuts and mushrooms and the guys in the arctic ate 99% meat.
Chimpanzees seem to have a very closely related digestive system and eat something like 95% fruits and rest some insects and parts of cadavers. I remember a TV documentation where chimpanzees hunted down a monkey (they worked themselves up into some kind of blood frenzy) and ate parts of it. Chimpanzees actually have enough strength in their grip and in their arms to rip an animal apart and their teeth look more capable to eat raw meat than human teeth, but they still eat basically only fruits and nuts most of the time.
About the life expectancy of humans throughout the ages, that all seemed to be around 35-40, after disregarding children under 15 years old. For hunter-gatherer and agricultural civilizations up to medieval times the numbers I found did not vary much. Life expectancy only started to go up about the time the Scientific Method was widely adopted and humanity got out of medieval times.
About how fast evolution can kick in regarding digestion, I remember stuff about alcohol tolerance and lactose intolerance varying throughout the world, which has to be connected to stuff that happened after the stone age.
So a little use of Google did not help me at all to get a pro-stone-age-diet recommendation despite the idea sounding neat at first.
On April 16 2011 15:27 RawVeganYes wrote: I'm not here to write a reseach paper and provide a list of links and essays. The internet is free. Chose to take out of it what you want. Google is your friend. Everything I mentioned can be found. Like I said many of the facts I stated about deforistation, the majority of main crops being used by factoring farms (soy, water, corn, grains, wheat) etc etc. Much of the data that reflects badly on the meat and dairy industries they even provide themselves. However, I spent 2 minutes and came up with 10 or so links about what factory farming does to the earth. Spend 2 hours and come up with 1 link telling me how factory farming and killing animals is heping anything. It's ok. I'll wait.
As stated a few pages back. Providing links won't do anything. because some meat eat will just come with a link of info paid for by the dairy industry.
The funny thing is the meat and dairy industries have something to gain. MONEY. Vegans are not trying to gain anything for themselves per se. We are trying to save lifes and the earth.
Link #1: "Your guide to a healthy, cruelty-free, and sustainable lifestyle!" Link #2: "Vegan-Nutritionist" Link #3: Never concludes that a vegan lifestyle is the answer, but rather we need better livestock raising practices. Link #4: Author fails to mention that American meat consumption trends are primarily caused by diets rich in foods that fuck with our leptin receptors causing insatiable hunger and driving the average American to consume 3800 calories/day. Link #5: PETA--didn't open. Link #6: More about the fast food industry than meat, and even the vegetables in this case are packed full of preservatives and devoid of fiber for extended shelf life.
Stopped here, realized you had more links. Here we go...
Link #1 on "health benefits": Assumes that saturated fat causes heart disease which has long been known to be untrue. Link #2 on "health benefits": Same, from a website called "vegetarian-info." Link #4 on "health benefits" (skipped Wikipedia): Same lipid hypothesis, long been known to be false.
Also goes particularly retarded and says this:
"Carbohydrates. Carbohydrates provide energy for your body. When you don’t have enough carbohydrates, your body will burn muscle tissue."
...THAT'S their second point? After that they just list a bunch of vitamins, further insulting my intelligence and implying that meat eaters don't ever eat vegetables too.
Link #5 on "health benefits": Citations include "American Vegetarian," web links, absolutely no controlled studies, and a couple of dead links that I investigated further to find zero ways of accessing them on the web.
Sorry, if I had more time I'd do the rest, but it's a busy time for me. I was hoping to get some decent information on the health benefits of being a vegetarian, or at least some conclusive reasoning as to why people go vegan, but all I got was trash based on trash and intellectual dead ends.
I think that we both have something in common, to be fair. I am on a paleolithic diet rich in animal fats, protein, and vegetables, and without soy, grains, or other processed foods. You are on a vegan diet full of vegetables, soy, and grains. While we may have divergent opinions, I understand that both of our diets are drastically misunderstood and misrepresented, and that ironically puts us in somewhat of the same corner. I can sympathize with you for this.
What bothers me about your post was the absolute trash sources you linked. I do not dislike you for your diet--it's your right to put whatever you want into your body. But, I cannot respect you for your academic integrity.
Lol. I understnad now why someone said providing links would not do any good. People just take the info and view it the way they want. As stated I had about 5 minutes or less and I came up with 20 links. I did so while at work. I'm sorry I did not have more time to come up with links to your liking,
On April 16 2011 17:01 RawVeganYes wrote: Lol. I understnad now why someone said providing links would not do any good. People just take the info and view it the way they want.
?
I was very clear about the problems I had with your links, and you respond with "lol" and some crap about me twisting the words?
I apologize for being a man who demands more than links to biased sources and broken information? I mean, I honestly don't know how to respond to this little snippet of yours.
(Edit for your edit)
As stated I had about 5 minutes or less and I came up with 20 links. I did so while at work. I'm sorry I did not have more time to come up with links to your liking
I don't care if you post 50 links in 2 minutes. If they're all trash (which appears to be what you've come to admit), I'll remain unimpressed.
So you debunked 20 links with about 1 paragraph or words? As stated earlier im not here to write a research paper for you. In this entire thread there are 0 links showing that factory farming is good. I guess that should be obvious, even though there were 1 or 2 people saying that farming veggies is the same as factory farming animals. Face palm. Most of the plant matter is farmed for the animals to consume.
There are almost 0 links in this thread showing the positive benefits of eating meat and HOW IT IS GOOD FOR THE EARTH. So why dont you show me. What does meat do for the earth?
You did not respond to the links I posted about factory farming, the resources it uses, what it does to the earth etc. I'll assume you realize that it is horrbile?
On April 16 2011 17:03 RawVeganYes wrote: So you debunked 20 links with about 1 paragraph or words?
I wrote 430 words in that post.
I could have probably done it in a single sentence if I wanted to, but I decided to give each link individual attention. For fun, here is that single sentence:
Veganism is based on backless claims about the alleged negative effects of saturated fats and speculated positive effects of grains and soy, and is a lifestyle whose most zealous practitioners cannot even link one reasonable source to the health benefits and necessity of this diet which they always present.
There are almost 0 links in this thread showing the positive benefits of eating meat and HOW IT IS GOOD FOR THE EARTH. So why dont you show me. What does meat do for the earth?
You did not respond to the links I posted about factory farming, the resources it uses, what it does to the earth etc. I'll assume you realize that it is horrbile?
Wait what? When exactly did I say that eating meat is good for the earth? I never accused you of promoting the farming practices that make all vegetables available 365 days a year and contribute significantly to global warming, so don't accuse me of trashing the earth alone.
Also, I did respond to the link about factory farming. I said that those links themselves concluded we need more efficient farming practices and better technology--not a universal vegan diet.
Honestly, with the world's population right now, we have plenty of problems with food, economy, and environment all clashing. I would love to think of reasonable options for how we can solve these problems that don't reduce to extreme and unhealthy lifestyle changes for people everywhere.
I had hopes that this thread would be a place where vegetarians/vegans/anyone could share their experiences and some fun recipes. Remind me why I even believed it was a possibility...
I don’t think anyone is a carnivore and in the purist meaning of it extremely few if not none are “vegan/vegetarian”. We all fall somewhere in the middle.
The most important thing about the “vegan/vegetarian/organic/free range/raw food” movements is that its gotten some people to actually think about our diets and their effects on us and the environment.
No one has a monopoly on the truth. There is no question that particularly in the USA that we need to take a serious look at everything we eat fruits, veggies and supplements included and keep an open mind that just because someone eats meat/animal products it doesn’t mean they are any less caring, knowledgable, or good than one who does not. All sides should refrain from the "holier than thou” type rhetoric in order to facilitate an honest discussion
I was hoping to get good information out of this thread and am sorely disappointed, not because I'm a vegetarian or thinking about converting in the slightest (I'm a meat eater and would live off of meat 100% if it was possible). I just want to understand the concept behind it, I don't want to hear lame excuses of saving animals and the like. I'm even a nature lover, I hate seeing animal habitat destroyed to make room for more human consumption, but I do love me some <insert animal here> on the BBQ. People have been eating meat since the dawn of time and I have no intention of changing that. It's true that everyone is different and depending on blood type you may not have sufficient enzymes to break meat down properly, but it's as simple as drinking something acidic to help break the meat down. Enough rambling from me.
I'm curious what the vegetarian viewpoint is on all the plants and animals that are killed every time the farmers spray their crops? You can keep a blind eye turned when it benefits you I guess.
On April 16 2011 17:15 dANiELcanuck wrote: I'm curious what the vegetarian viewpoint is on all the plants and animals that are killed every time the farmers spray their crops? You can keep a blind eye turned when it benefits you I guess.
You have an error in reasoning here. To get beef you need to feed the cattle. And the crops used for feed are sprayed just the same.
On April 16 2011 17:15 dANiELcanuck wrote: I was hoping to get good information out of this thread and am sorely disappointed, not because I'm a vegetarian or thinking about converting in the slightest (I'm a meat eater and would live off of meat 100% if it was possible). I just want to understand the concept behind it, I don't want to hear lame excuses of saving animals and the like. I'm even a nature lover, I hate seeing animal habitat destroyed to make room for more human consumption, but I do love me some <insert animal here> on the BBQ. People have been eating meat since the dawn of time and I have no intention of changing that. It's true that everyone is different and depending on blood type you may not have sufficient enzymes to break meat down properly, but it's as simple as drinking something acidic to help break the meat down. Enough rambling from me.
I'm curious what the vegetarian viewpoint is on all the plants and animals that are killed every time the farmers spray their crops? You can keep a blind eye turned when it benefits you I guess.
For me that is the concept behind it, the liquidation of the milk and dairy industry will have positive ramifications for the enviroment and therefore animals. So you can't eat meat and be an animal lover because you are supporting an industry which exploits animals and has negative ramifications on the enviroment, or habitat as you put it.
My personal experience is that it is also healthier but some people are on a quest to prove me wrong so i won't add that in there.
And please don't judge all veganism on this convoluted discussion (by both sides), like you shouldn't judge any concept on internet arguements.
On April 16 2011 17:15 dANiELcanuck wrote: I was hoping to get good information out of this thread and am sorely disappointed, not because I'm a vegetarian or thinking about converting in the slightest (I'm a meat eater and would live off of meat 100% if it was possible). I just want to understand the concept behind it, I don't want to hear lame excuses of saving animals and the like. I'm even a nature lover, I hate seeing animal habitat destroyed to make room for more human consumption, but I do love me some <insert animal here> on the BBQ. People have been eating meat since the dawn of time and I have no intention of changing that. It's true that everyone is different and depending on blood type you may not have sufficient enzymes to break meat down properly, but it's as simple as drinking something acidic to help break the meat down. Enough rambling from me.
I'm curious what the vegetarian viewpoint is on all the plants and animals that are killed every time the farmers spray their crops? You can keep a blind eye turned when it benefits you I guess.
Local and organic? Raw? the fruits and veggies i eat are not sprayed with what your talking about. Maybe if you buy some mass produced dole bananas. But i have visited the farms where i get my food. And i have a local co op garden. None of that is going on. The difference between farmed veggies and farmed meat was covered a few pages back anyways. The farmed animals requires the farmed plant matter. For the 10th time. This is the middle man syndrome. We dont need to farm the animals. We can simply eat the plant matter ourselves lol.
On April 16 2011 17:15 dANiELcanuck wrote: I'm curious what the vegetarian viewpoint is on all the plants and animals that are killed every time the farmers spray their crops? You can keep a blind eye turned when it benefits you I guess.
You have an error in reasoning here. To get beef you need to feed the cattle. And the crops used for feed are sprayed just the same.
what this guy said. That about summed up what was said a few pages back.
P.S. for anyone curious. I'm eating my RAW Vegan dinner right now.
1) 2 Raw vegan tacos (avacado for taco, lettuce for shell) spiced up with things the way i like it 2) 1 Tomato with a dash of raw sea salt 3) a small amount of raw jungle peanutes 4) some raw dried "nacho" kale chips 5) water
soooo yummy.
PPS for those thinking that going vegan or raw vegan costs money. I'm poor. This dinner is about $4.
On April 16 2011 17:15 dANiELcanuck wrote: I'm curious what the vegetarian viewpoint is on all the plants and animals that are killed every time the farmers spray their crops? You can keep a blind eye turned when it benefits you I guess.
You have an error in reasoning here. To get beef you need to feed the cattle. And the crops used for feed are sprayed just the same.
I don't care about the animals and plants dying though, that's the difference. The land has already been clearcut and monocropped, it's already dead and unless everyone on the planet starts being a producer instead of a consumer we're never going to get rid of that problem. I grew up on a farm and live in a city now so I obviously don't have the land to support my family. You can grow some food aquaponically using sunlight through your windows, and I suggest it to anyone. This thread isn't about educating people on how to grow their own food, so I won't go any further on that subject.
To the guy who said he buys his food locally, that's awesome and I respect you for that, it's how I was raised and I plan on returning to that lifestyle except I'll be eating local animals as well.
On April 16 2011 17:15 dANiELcanuck wrote: I'm curious what the vegetarian viewpoint is on all the plants and animals that are killed every time the farmers spray their crops? You can keep a blind eye turned when it benefits you I guess.
You have an error in reasoning here. To get beef you need to feed the cattle. And the crops used for feed are sprayed just the same.
I don't care about the animals and plants dying though, that's the difference. The land has already been clearcut and monocropped, it's already dead and unless everyone on the planet starts being a producer instead of a consumer we're never going to get rid of that problem. I grew up on a farm and live in a city now so I obviously don't have the land to support my family. You can grow some food aquaponically using sunlight through your windows, and I suggest it to anyone. This thread isn't about educating people on how to grow their own food, so I won't go any further on that subject.
To the guy who said he buys his food locally, that's awesome and I respect you for that, it's how I was raised and I plan on returning to that lifestyle except I'll be eating local animals as well.
Somewhere in this thread an article about a scientific report was linked about what the most efficient use of land would be (they looked at the land in New York state, the state their university is in).
This would be a vegetarian diet with dairy products and a little bit of meat. Basically, it would only be the amount of dairy and meat you could produce with the grass that grows on the farmers' crop fields in the years they have to let their field rest.
The land use of the most carnivorous lifestyle they looked at was five times higher than what a vegetarian diet would use.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Just disregard everything humanity has learned over thousands of years and try to eat like cavemen did? What was the average life expectancy for a caveman? How about height?
"Hey, this 4'9'', toothless man who's middle-aged at 20 seems like he's got everything figured out, what with his total disregard for personal hygiene and his incomprehension of toilet paper. Give me what he's having!"
Jeez, I heard about the "paleo-diet" and I thought it made a lot of sense, but I also assumed that there was some actually science behind it. I mean, how do these people think we even know what cavemen ate at all? Is that really the basis for the idea? That is just absurd.
People shrank in areas where the agricultural revolution took hold.
You know those moments when you realize public school has failed you once again? Because this stupid bastard is right: cavemen were just as big as we are today.
The secret to health appears to be fresh, non-processed foods and exercise.
Not much of a secret.
Also, this:
On April 16 2011 05:44 CorporationsRule wrote: Part of the evolutionary diet perspective is to admit that we can never fully understand anything in science because the world is infinitely complex, so to be able to say "after analyzing milk I think it has everything you need" even though it is not what we evolved eating (after being weened from our mother's breast milk of course) is not something that can ever be completely proven.
is still the dumbest, most head-in-the-sand rationalization.
I'm all for killing animals, life is not so special you shouldn't be allowed to kill it and cook it. What I don't eat however, are animals which were held on a couple of square centimetres for their entire lives, fed on refuse, injected with growth hormones and 'medicines', to end up as enzyme-injected, mechanically separated, chemically flavoured supermarket discount burgers. I don't eat at fastfood joints, because vulgar people do, besides the 'food' is horrible. Can't afford edible meat which' previous owner has had a good life, so yes, I'm a vegetarian ^^
On April 12 2011 03:10 frogurt wrote: Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
If I had to choose, I'd go with the nuclear physics stuff he invented, a-bombs are a whole of a lot quicker than converting the world population into veggies. Who cares if we'd get 12 billion vegetarians instead of 7 billions mostly meat-eaters, they'd still want i-pads and priuses to heave their vegetarian oil-asses around :p
On April 16 2011 18:57 VIB wrote: So..... how do I find a good nutrition guide so I can understand which vegetables I need to put together to get my daily nutritional needs?
Just make your salad as colorful as possible. Vary the stuff from day to day, cook some, eat some raw. Basically you can't go wrong if you vary a lot. Eat beans, stay away from soy products, nuts, seeds, dairy and maybe some B12 vitamins if you don't get enough dairy.
Also, I really like the mad vegan activist c&p some www.lolveganrocks.com links and getting all touchy when he is called on his biased sources.
On April 16 2011 18:57 VIB wrote: So..... how do I find a good nutrition guide so I can understand which vegetables I need to put together to get my daily nutritional needs?
Just make your salad as colorful as possible. Vary the stuff from day to day, cook some, eat some raw. Basically you can't go wrong if you vary a lot. Eat beans, stay away from soy products, nuts, seeds, dairy and maybe some B12 vitamins if you don't get enough dairy.
I don't know, I'm a bit skeptic of "can't go wrong". I'm afraid that, because of my lack of knowledge, I'll end up mixing wrong stuff and will missing something. I cannot just buy everything every week. Is it that hard to find a nice nutrition table so I know which vegetables complements which ones? Most sites tell me different vegetables give me different parts of my protein needs, but I cannot find which ones give what.
On April 16 2011 20:04 Serthius wrote: Sad to see this thread deteriorate into idiotic arguments. I was hoping for some good recipes. :/
Sorry to disappoint :p To correct:
If you're an ovitarian, fooyounghai (sp?), just eggs with sauce, you can basically put anything in it, very easy to make. Goes good with rice and pasta. My favourite is to use eggs, pour sweet-sour sauce over it and add whatever vegetables I've got left (usually spinach, broccoli, carrots) to the soup.
Another quick fix is tempeh, high protein soy-bean product, not as bland as tofu (what isn't...). Just fry it, add sauce, or herbs /whatever makes you tick. I like to slice it really thin, then serve it with indonesian sateh sauce (hot). Add some un- or slightly cooked cold vegetables, and you're good.
Quinoa, a South American grain, to bake bread. More nutritious than wheat, tastes different/better. Note: while baking, it smells like the kitchen is being used by an East Asian subsidiary of IG Farben, but the result is non-toxic and very edible. Also available in broken form; can be welled and cooked plain, good food. A bit like... there's something else like it but I forgot the name.
Beans. You'd be amazed how many kinds there are, and what you can do with them. I usually cook 'm straight up, but there are an unholy many recipes for veg/bean/x combo dishes out there, ask mr G.
Tip: avoid pre-fab meat replacement stuff like tofu burgers and whatnot, usually they're full of salt and other mess you wouldn't feed your garbage burner.
On April 16 2011 18:57 VIB wrote: So..... how do I find a good nutrition guide so I can understand which vegetables I need to put together to get my daily nutritional needs?
Just make your salad as colorful as possible. Vary the stuff from day to day, cook some, eat some raw. Basically you can't go wrong if you vary a lot. Eat beans, stay away from soy products, nuts, seeds, dairy and maybe some B12 vitamins if you don't get enough dairy.
I don't know, I'm a bit skeptic of "can't go wrong". I'm afraid that, because of my lack of knowledge, I'll end up mixing wrong stuff and will missing something. I cannot just buy everything every week. Is it that hard to find a nice nutrition table so I know which vegetables complements which ones? Most sites tell me different vegetables give me different parts of my protein needs, but I cannot find which ones give what.
Leaf veggies (spinach etc) usually contain lots of iron, broccoli has a lot of good stuff (also coconuts!).
On April 16 2011 16:09 RawVeganYes wrote: If by luxury lifesyle you mean cheaper than eating meat? Ya it is. Last time I checked an apple was cheaper than a piece of meat. Hell a bunch of bananas is cheaper than meat. Someone made a comment on a different vegan thread be4 it got closed about how poor countries would laugh at the thought of being vegan and that it is a luxury. That comment made me want to face palm. Eating Vegan is far less expensive than eating a meat diet. Fruits and veggies are found in every part of every country. Refraining from eating meat only takes willpower and the awareness to stop. A small amount. Vietnam and India among other countries have a good amount of veggie/vegan population.
Supplements are not required with very minimal research. Idk why your calling a vitamin a pill like its crack or something. It's just silly.
For reference I am a 10 year vegan. 9 years of which have been raw vegan. Doctors and tests says I could not be much healthier. Am I superman? No. Humans are born plant eaters. The diet and lifestyle requires some amount planning. Like any diet should.
By "a luxury lifestyle" I mean a lifestyle you can only live in our overly rich western countries. Try living a vegan lifestyle in eastern Europe, central Asia or Africa and you'll die of malnutrition before long.
I've absolutely got nothing against a vegetarian lifestyle, a lot of people throughout the world live that way. I'm not a vegetarian myself but I love my vegetables. Veganism, on the other hand, is comparable to islamism or orthodox christianity: a small group of people with rather extreme and unhealthy ideas. If you need to resort to pills and vitamins to keep your diet healthy, you know you're doing something wrong. Pills nowadays are generally a solution to the symptom, not to the problem.
on an individual level its your opinion. sure you can be vegetarian or vegan but im already too used to eating meat i dont really see a point in changing.
on a global level its wealth inequality. veganism is a first world luxury (shameless quote by anthony bourdain) and only by getting world governments to stop industrial production of subsidized meat can you significantly press down the demand for meat. until you do that no real change is going to happen.
meat is tasty and way too cheap. even if you made it illegal you would have huge black markets selling meat to people at ridiculous prices like weed and alcohol.
I like people that are vegetarian for themselves, just like people that bike instead of taking a car or people that do volunteer work. it's not bad, but it's not really changing anything either. significant change only happens through law or price regulation. and seeing as how most of the population loves stuffing their faces with seared pieces of muscle and fat, i don't see any such changes happening in the near future.
eating good and I mean very good meat (no rubbish, np cheap stuff) >> being vegan/vegetarian eating cheap and very bad meat <<< being vegan/vegetarian
I dont see a reason to be vegetarian because of certain moral views or whatever. Animals are supposed to get killed in order to be eaten. (hint: take a look at what happens in nature on a daily basis)
On April 16 2011 22:28 MaGic~PhiL wrote: my opinion:
eating good and I mean very good meat (no rubbish, np cheap stuff) >> being vegan/vegetarian eating cheap and very bad meat <<< being vegan/vegetarian
I dont see a reason to be vegetarian because of certain moral views or whatever. Animals are supposed to get killed in order to be eaten. (hint: take a look at what happens in nature on a daily basis)
Animals killing and eating other Animals in the wild does not justify Animals to be killed and eaten by humans...I'm not here to preach Animal cruelty or morality but that kind of logic is just...flawed.
“i have visited the farms where i get my food. And i have a local co op garden.”—RawVeganYes
“The land has already been clearcut and monocropped, it's already dead and unless everyone on the planet starts being a producer instead of a consumer we're never going to get rid of that problem.”—dANiELcanuck
Bam, that’s what I’m talking about. Love.
Also,
On April 16 2011 05:44 CorporationsRule wrote: Part of the evolutionary diet perspective is to admit that we can never fully understand anything in science because the world is infinitely complex, so to be able to say "after analyzing milk I think it has everything you need" even though it is not what we evolved eating (after being weened from our mother's breast milk of course) is not something that can ever be completely proven. ________________________________________
“is still the dumbest, most head-in-the-sand rationalization.”- bahl sofs tiil
“All I know is that I know nothing”—Socrates (not from this thread)
How is that a rationalization? That’s just me saying I’m not sure, and that I’m not sure we can ever be sure of anything, which is a fundamental axiom of Western science…and indigenous spirituality…In the case of the indigenous, this acknowledgement of infinite complexity and notions of intersubjectivity rather than objectivity often lead to sustainable cultures that respected the biosphere. Hopefully Western culture will catch up to the insights of its own quantum physics soon, so we can bring the death machine to a hault.
“Natural science, does not simply describe and explain nature; it is part of the interplay between nature and ourselves.” -Werner Heisenberg
“What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning.”-Werner Heisenberg
Couldn’t decide between the two because they are both so rad, so you get both.
Imo eating those imitation meat products is pretty disgusting, they're like the ultimate in processed crap. If you're going to be a vegetarian there are so many other more interesting, better, and tastier things you can do with vegetables, beans, grains, tofu, cheese, eggs, etc (unless you're a vegan for those last two).
Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
I'm sorry but this is the point where I have to come back to this discussion. It is people such as you, and the person in the video who anger me; people that try to prove the superiority of their beliefs. People who try to use science (badly might I add) to prove that their morality or way of life is superior. I don't mean to single out just the vegetarian side of the argument, there are tons of equally idiotic omnivores in this thread. As for the video, our eyes point forwards, that's a trait of a hunter not an herbivore. Trying to prove that humanity isn't an omnivore is like trying to disprove the existence of zero, it's just nonsense. One of humanities greatest strengths is our adaptability, that's why we dominate the planet. Long ago hominids became able to process meat and became hunters. They saw a quick increase in brain mass. This does not indicate that humanity must eat meat to survive, nor does it imply meat is inherently a better, but because it was easier to fill our bellies before we understood how to farm. Infact, it was largely farming (not a hunter/gatherer existence) which lead to the success of human civilization.
It's called tolerance. You like to eat only vegetables? Great for you, enjoy! You like to eat meat? Again, that's good for you. The fact of the matter is that either side can live a healthy existence providing that you properly plan your diet. Trying to prove that one side or the other is superior than the other is silly, you're merely cherry picking "facts" to try and alter someone's sense of "right". Rightness and morality are artificial constructs. There exists no "gold standard" of morality. Do what you feel like, don't try to push your beliefs onto me and everything will be perfect.
The point of this thread was not 20 pages of idiot omnivores fighting idiot vegetarians about the "rightness" of their beliefs. This thread was started on the premise of sharing knowledge of vegetarian products and recipes. I don't want to have to wade through BS to find the few gems of posts which actually stick to the topic (thanks much to these people). The word of today? Tolerance. Plain and simple.
Red kidney bean hotpot (Didn't check if its been posted before but I find this delicious and nutritious) It's kind of a "red" theme
You need, 2 shallots (red onions), 2 tins red kidney beans, garlic, 2 red peppers. 2 cans of tomatos, a packet of mushrooms, garlic and some form of thickener such as maize paste.
Prepare the veggies by slicing, dicing etc and then pan fry the onions in a little water. Then add the peppers and fry for just a minute or two to soften a little. Add all other ingredients except the mushrooms and thickener, dont forget to add the tomato juice!
Add some water (less than a soup or stew but enough to cook in) and leave to cook for about 15 minutes, add the mushrooms. Leave to cook for another 5 minutes and add thickener to the juice. Serve and enjoy (yeah I did it from *poor* memory) but I always fins this really tasty, especially at winter time.
On April 16 2011 18:57 VIB wrote: So..... how do I find a good nutrition guide so I can understand which vegetables I need to put together to get my daily nutritional needs?
You don't need to know what nutrition vegetables actually have. The thing is about one single vegetable not having enough of all the essential amino acids. The problem is if you eat nothing but onions, water and vitamin pills, you will be lacking some essential amino acids.
A single vegetable isn't a balanced source for all amino acids. But it is a good course of protein and even more so of minerals and vitamins.
Potato, rice other cereals, they are included in this rule. They will have lots of protein but they won't be balanced. If you each nothing but french fries and spinach I don't think you will run into a problem with protein, though one could do the math.
Since there are 8 essential amino acids and vegetables generally have a low amount of only 1 or 2, the odds of you eating all these vegetables that all lack the same essential amino acid is basically 0.
You can find sites that have numbers for what amino acids are in which vegetables. But you need to normalize those numbers as some amino acids are more commonly used than others and not all are required or present in equal amounts. But the general thing is that Tryptophan and Lysine and underrepresented in vegetables but readily available in beans. Of course any animal derived product will still have 'complete protein'.
So if you each spinach, french fries and brown beans week 1 and eggplant, rice and tofu week 2 then you won't have a very good diet, but you will have solved the protein issue by adding brown beans and tofu. But if you eat only tofu week 1, only eggplant week 2 and only brown beans week 3 then you have a problem.
Thing is, these extremely monotonous diets seem impossible to me, though I am often surprised by the in my view outrageous diets some people have. And I am in a country were people can still recognize vegetables and don't eat mostly processed foods.
I have heard that compared to other countries processed foods in the US are ridiculously unhealthy in such a degree that if you eat them you will get fat eventually, period.
on an individual level its your opinion. sure you can be vegetarian or vegan but im already too used to eating meat i dont really see a point in changing.
As a Chinese don't promote eating meat. It will threaten world peace. Also, no one here cares about your opinion as we are all vegetarians. We don't care about how meat tastes to you. If you want to engage, talk about your favorite vegetable, at least.
Also, it doesn't matter what humans are evolutionary supposed to eat. Rape is supposed to be an excellent reproduction tactic. Yet this doesn't mean it is moral or practical in a modern world.
"It's called tolerance. You like to eat only vegetables? Great for you, enjoy! You like to eat meat? Again, that's good for you. The fact of the matter is that either side can live a healthy existence providing that you properly plan your diet. Trying to prove that one side or the other is superior than the other is silly, you're merely cherry picking "facts" to try and alter someone's sense of "right". Rightness and morality are artificial constructs. There exists no "gold standard" of morality. Do what you feel like, don't try to push your beliefs onto me and everything will be perfect."
What's awesome about this post is how it puts forward this simplistic post-modern perspective in which all values are completely arbitrary, and there is nothing else to say about them or their political, economic, or ecological context, and then pushes the value of "tolerance" as the "gold standard of morality" that it mocks, in the same tone of superiority that the poster claims to be so offended by.
Good show my friend. Good show.
God, my first post in this thread came from a sincere desire to share my experience and (current) world view, and now, as always happens when I get involved in any forum, I have turned into a snide troll. The internet is evil, objectively!
Being a vegetarian can be even better than being a meat eater in terms of taste if you get a lot of good recipes. The best option would probably be hiring a cook, but some people who don't understand money think they couldn't afford a cook.
On April 18 2011 01:45 revy wrote: It's called tolerance. You like to eat only vegetables? Great for you, enjoy! You like to eat meat? Again, that's good for you.
This is precisely how I go about the debate, as well.
A not-so-quick overview of myself: I was a vegetarian for approximately seven years, and began practicing veganism roughly a year ago or so. Prior to my vegetarianism, I engaged in dietary habits that could be best described as "slow suicide." I was hitting the scale at 320 lbs, had difficulty walking up stairs, and ingested foods that provided minimal nutritional benefit (fast food twice at day, at least). Essentially, my diet was carnivorous in nature as I found vegetables and fruit unable to completely satisfy my appetite. I blame this partially on how I was raised to eat as a child (red meat nightly, a large bag of chips a day, etc), and more due to my indolence.
My doctor took notice and began to criticize my health rather extensively, much to my dismay. However, I slowly began to understand how my eating habits were pernicious to my health. My doctor implored me to begin a moderate intake of fruits, vegetables, and grains. His advice didn't suggest cutting out meat entirely, but he did imply that my tendency to eat prime rib three nights was rather unnecessary. And from that point, I began to shift the balance of fruits/vegetables to meat.
Having eaten few vegetables/fruits prior to this request from my doctor, I was notably surprised how much I enjoyed them. As time progressed, I slowly lost the craving to ingest meat on a perfunctory basis and replaced that desire with fresh fruit/vegetables. Roughly a year later, my meat intake was non-existent and I had essentially become "vegetarian."
Fast-forward to today: I'm a 195 lbs vegan that exercises daily in the form of long-distance running, and feel the healthiest I've felt since I was a child. Many who have witnessed this transformation ask the question, "Wow! Does a vegan/vegetarian lifestyle really make that much of a difference?" My answer to them is, "It works about as efficiently as ANY balanced, healthy diet would work. It's all about balance and dedication."
I tend to break the "stereotype" in regards to a vegan that is typically portrayed by the masses. I don't disseminate my practice to the masses, I don't have issues eating dinner with others who eat meat, nor do I engage in this lifestyle for animal rights (although I do encourage more humane slaughterhouse tactics). I don't practice veganism due to any realization that ingesting meat is a squalid and inhumane act. As revy mentioned in the quote above, I'm vegan simply because I enjoy it. I apply no criticism to others.
My apologies for the somewhat long read. I suppose my tl:dr is: I used to eat meat, now vegan, but still love everyone and have zero issues with any dietary choices that people may engage in.
On April 18 2011 02:19 Suisen wrote: Since there are 8 essential amino acids and vegetables generally have a low amount of only 1 or 2, the odds of you eating all these vegetables that all lack the same essential amino acid is basically 0.
You can find sites that have numbers for what amino acids are in which vegetables.
But I was trying to not need to mix way too much different things just to be practical. And finding that info was harder than I thought it would. I still didn't find a single consolidated list of which vegetables give what. Although I did find what I needed to know, but I had to do a lot of cross referencing myself from wikipedia and nutrition websites. That was much harder to do than thought. But now I finally got it.
Turns out, just like you said, it was actually much easier than I thought to make sure you're eating all your daily needs. At least compared to what I usually already eat. Actually, if I simply keep eating exactly what I always did minus the meat, I will still have my complete daily needs Seems like the only amino acid that for my average diet, lysine was the only one that wasn't always present. But that can be easily solved with either one of beans, lentils, soy or peas. So I just have to remember to always have one of these every day and I should be ok.
So yea that's it. I feel I'm ready to go vegetarian now. I'll give it a try . Thanks for the help
Can you put up a definition of what being a vegan is? Also, is this more of a choice of a healthier life or for more moral choices?
moral, definitely. If you want to eat healthy you only need to eat healthy food, not necessarily stop eating meat altogether. Personaly im a 'normal' vegetarian : no meat no fish no gelatine, i however eat milk and eggs. On a random note you also have pollo-vegetarians. Which eat no meat except for chicken *.* made me lol when i first heard about it :D
On April 18 2011 02:17 Deja Thoris wrote: Red kidney bean hotpot (Didn't check if its been posted before but I find this delicious and nutritious) It's kind of a "red" theme
You need, 2 shallots (red onions), 2 tins red kidney beans, garlic, 2 red peppers. 2 cans of tomatos, a packet of mushrooms, garlic and some form of thickener such as maize paste.
Prepare the veggies by slicing, dicing etc and then pan fry the onions in a little water. Then add the peppers and fry for just a minute or two to soften a little. Add all other ingredients except the mushrooms and thickener, dont forget to add the tomato juice!
Add some water (less than a soup or stew but enough to cook in) and leave to cook for about 15 minutes, add the mushrooms. Leave to cook for another 5 minutes and add thickener to the juice. Serve and enjoy (yeah I did it from *poor* memory) but I always fins this really tasty, especially at winter time.
[QUOTE]On April 18 2011 04:48 TheAwesomeAll wrote: [QUOTE]On April 12 2011 03:44 Torte de Lini wrote:
On a random note you also have pollo-vegetarians. Which eat no meat except for chicken *.* made me lol when i first heard about it :D [/QUOTE] yeh same as pescetarians and similar bs...
On April 18 2011 04:34 VIB wrote: Turns out, just like you said, it was actually much easier than I thought to make sure you're eating all your daily needs. At least compared to what I usually already eat.
Yes, the reason you can't readily find is is a), it's not needed and b) it is not easy to calculate.
It has a sample of essential amino acids in some foods.
Note that no vegetable is deficient in an essential amino acid. They are just limited. Now I don't know if this can be overcome by just eating a whole lot. Digestion can be a bit of a complex process.
As a vegetarian you still have dairy. But for a vegan it probably is reason to eat more beans/legumes than you normally want, if you don't have a liking for them, just because you know this may be one of the first potential weak point in your diet.
If you read wikipedia you see that researchers actually had to create special food for their test subjects to get them to suffer amino acid deficiency. It seems it is not easy to get it.
The whole protein 'myth' comes from when people knew that individual vegetables were limited in some amino acids and they thought you had to ate two meals, that were incomplete in protein within powers, within a few hours for them to be able to overlap. If they were say 8 or 12 hours apart, the body would no longer be able to use the protein from both meals together, the theory said. Now after more research we know this isn't really a problem for several reasons and the person originally proposing this idea has changed her mind.
If you are a vegan you would be more worried about B12.
So right now I have stopped eating meat but I still eat fish (semi-veggie?). Meat used to be some really quick energy, one steak and potatoes and then I was full. Almost the same with fish, a piece of fish with potatoes and I'm full. But I have more problems making dinners for my 190cm (6"2) body when trying to be completely veggie. A can of beans is Way to few calories for a dinner for me. Which makes me just increasing the carbs a lot, but I don't want to go in that direction and just tons of carbs.
Those of you in this thread who have a high need of calories, what proteins do you usually eat?
I really suggest those that are getting into the whole vegetarian/vegan thing do alot of research. There are some vitamins that are normally derived from meat consumption that you need to be able to get on your new way of eating.
The challenge is to replace the fat/protein you would have gotten with nutrient dense equivalents. Bread/rice/beans/pasta are loaded with starch and you can't just eat more of that and expect to be healthier - you need to eat stuff with just as much nutrients per calorie. Leafy veggies, and low sugar fruits (berries). Sugar/starches = insulin response = fat/metabolic syndrome/heart disease.
Replacing your typical bagel with a root vegetable (beets/sweet potatoes) that has more nutrients would be a great idea too.
I work with a vegetarian and I've seen him wreck his body. Okay so no meat - lets depend on soda/candy/chocolate for sustenance instead O_o.
I follow a low carbohydrate diet (and feel great!) but I eat my leafy veggies and like them too. To each their own but I do want to note that the moral "lets save the world" justification for vegetarianism is overblown. Conventional mono-culture agriculture is just as environmentally destructive (if not more so) than animal husbandry. The juicy strawberries you see in the market place were grown on a piece of land that was smothered with plastic (to prevent weeds) and hosed down with pesticides. Grass fed beef is one of the most sustainable forms of agriculture and is being used to reverse desertification in Africa.
If you want to make a difference, support a local organic farmer. The meat and/or vegetables you get from them will be far superior in nutrients and will have the lowest carbon impact.
On April 16 2011 16:09 RawVeganYes wrote: If by luxury lifesyle you mean cheaper than eating meat? Ya it is. Last time I checked an apple was cheaper than a piece of meat. Hell a bunch of bananas is cheaper than meat. Someone made a comment on a different vegan thread be4 it got closed about how poor countries would laugh at the thought of being vegan and that it is a luxury. That comment made me want to face palm. Eating Vegan is far less expensive than eating a meat diet. Fruits and veggies are found in every part of every country. Refraining from eating meat only takes willpower and the awareness to stop. A small amount. Vietnam and India among other countries have a good amount of veggie/vegan population.
Supplements are not required with very minimal research. Idk why your calling a vitamin a pill like its crack or something. It's just silly.
For reference I am a 10 year vegan. 9 years of which have been raw vegan. Doctors and tests says I could not be much healthier. Am I superman? No. Humans are born plant eaters. The diet and lifestyle requires some amount planning. Like any diet should.
By "a luxury lifestyle" I mean a lifestyle you can only live in our overly rich western countries. Try living a vegan lifestyle in eastern Europe, central Asia or Africa and you'll die of malnutrition before long.
I've absolutely got nothing against a vegetarian lifestyle, a lot of people throughout the world live that way. I'm not a vegetarian myself but I love my vegetables. Veganism, on the other hand, is comparable to islamism or orthodox christianity: a small group of people with rather extreme and unhealthy ideas. If you need to resort to pills and vitamins to keep your diet healthy, you know you're doing something wrong. Pills nowadays are generally a solution to the symptom, not to the problem.
Please read again. Vietnam and India among other countries have a good size veggie/vegan population. Some of the poorist people from the poorist countries in the world are veggie cuz of religion. Again fruits and veggies costs less than meat. Stop spreading lies. It's not a luxury lifestyle. As I said in a previous post I am dirt poor and I am RAW VEGAN. It is as simple as doing minimal research and then eating. Fruits and veggies grow all over the world. You are in denial.
On April 18 2011 05:31 rayout wrote: I really suggest those that are getting into the whole vegetarian/vegan thing do alot of research. There are some vitamins that are normally derived from meat consumption that you need to be able to get on your new way of eating.
The challenge is to replace the fat/protein you would have gotten with nutrient dense equivalents. Bread/rice/beans/pasta are loaded with starch and you can't just eat more of that and expect to be healthier - you need to eat stuff with just as much nutrients per calorie. Leafy veggies, and low sugar fruits (berries). Sugar/starches = insulin response = fat/metabolic syndrome/heart disease.
Replacing your typical bagel with a root vegetable (beets/sweet potatoes) that has more nutrients would be a great idea too.
I work with a vegetarian and I've seen him wreck his body. Okay so no meat - lets depend on soda/candy/chocolate for sustenance instead O_o.
For the 16th time. A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem.
Also I can't believe there are people here still trying to argue that factory farming animals does not hurt the environment and it's people. If you want to eat meat fine, thats your choice. But stop denying the impact it has on the earth. Obviously with the "im only 1 person what can i do mentality" nothing is going to get done. Fine. Then get out of the way of the people who are actually doing something for this earth.
Factory farmed animimals consume a huge portion of the worlds main crops (soy, corn, wheat, cereal), are the #1 polluter of clean lakes and rivers, contribute to green house gasses, the #1 cause of deforistation, on and on etc etc the list goes on. Please people its common sense. We feed these animals a huge portion of the worlds plant matter and then murder eat the animals. As i repeated several times before this is the "middle man syndrome" We do not need to feed factory farmed animals plant matter, and then eat the animals.
Someone comparing factory farmed animals to farmed veggies is insane. As stated before the factory farmed animals require exponentially more resources, land, and harmful effetcs than fruits and veggies. This is not debatable. It's a fact.
To get that cow you eat, you need to feed it an insane amount of plant matter.
We can simple eat the plant matter and water ourselves.
The harmful effects and wasted resources of the "middle man" are not needed.
If someone cant see this logic. You are either in denial or need to sign up for a logic 101 course.
Grass fed beef is one of the most sustainable forms of agriculture and is being used to reverse desertification in Africa.
Really? I thought this was responsible for like infinite deforestation in South america. Maybe in some climates it is sustainable, but especially where water is scarce I am not sure. And with the weight ratio of feed/beef being like 20/1, it is not efficient at all. I think small scale animal husbandry is obviously normal and fine, but once you take it to an insane macro level it is environmentally damaging. But I agree that today's industrialized veggie production is a nightmare too. Have any of you seen the documentary "our daily bread"? There are no words, simply video of the fields and factories where our food is produced. it is pretty amazing/troubling. I think organic food is very important, but sadly not so easy to find. Small scale farmers are virtually extinct in the western world now
I really suggest those that are getting into the whole vegetarian/vegan thing do alot of research. There are some vitamins that are normally derived from meat consumption that you need to be able to get on your new way of eating.
The challenge is to replace the fat/protein you would have gotten with nutrient dense equivalents. Bread/rice/beans/pasta are loaded with starch and you can't just eat more of that and expect to be healthier - you need to eat stuff with just as much nutrients per calorie. Leafy veggies, and low sugar fruits (berries). Sugar/starches = insulin response = fat/metabolic syndrome/heart disease.
Replacing your typical bagel with a root vegetable (beets/sweet potatoes) that has more nutrients would be a great idea too.
I work with a vegetarian and I've seen him wreck his body. Okay so no meat - lets depend on soda/candy/chocolate for sustenance instead O_o.
I follow a low carbohydrate diet (and feel great!) but I eat my leafy veggies and like them too. To each their own but I do want to note that the moral "lets save the world" justification for vegetarianism is overblown. Conventional mono-culture agriculture is just as environmentally destructive (if not more so) than animal husbandry. The juicy strawberries you see in the market place were grown on a piece of land that was smothered with plastic (to prevent weeds) and hosed down with pesticides. Grass fed beef is one of the most sustainable forms of agriculture and is being used to reverse desertification in Africa.
If you want to make a difference, support a local organic farmer. The meat and/or vegetables you get from them will be far superior in nutrients and will have the lowest carbon impact.
That post was pointless. It just repeats arguments that were already brought up by others in this thread. Additionally, all arguments are wrong and misinformed.
First of all, there really is no need to do a lot of research if you just do a Mediterranean, Indian or Japanese diet. This is all stuff that has been proven in practice to be okay food that does not make you die, and has been consumed for a far longer time than the current diets of mass produced meat every day.
While Japanese and Indian cooking may use exotic ingredients, which you will not find in Western supermarkets, all stuff for Italian cooking should be available.
About the heart disease conclusion: the Mediterranean diet was looked at in scientific research in the first place because it is what the people with the least amount of diseases on Earth have used.
The vegetarian you work with does not really sound like a vegetarian to me. Chances are the candy he eats actually has ingredients out of dead animals in it (btw: in the Mediterranean diet, sweets are stuff that should only be consumed once a week).
Monoculture is the most uninvolved way to produce stuff because problems are fixed through chemicals, and giant monoculture farms get the most out of big machines. This causes the cheapest price for grains with that method, and that means that the cheapest meat will also be produced with crops from that and will not be from grass fed cattle.
The thing is, feeding a vegetarian needs only a fraction of the land that is needed for someone that wants steaks or meat-balls at lunch every day (fraction = about one fifth the land). So if you are criticizing monoculture farming you are actually not producing an argument for meat.
The strawberries you mention are the ones sold in winter.
Grass fed cattle is cool in my book, but it is not enough for the current average meat consumption per person (in the Mediterranean diet, which is from a time before meat was mass produced, meat comes up once a month).
The local organic farmer should of course get your money, if you have enough.
Grass fed beef is one of the most sustainable forms of agriculture and is being used to reverse desertification in Africa.
Really? I thought this was responsible for like infinite deforestation in South america. Maybe in some climates it is sustainable, but especially where water is scarce I am not sure. And with the weight ratio of feed/beef being like 20/1, it is not efficient at all. I think small scale animal husbandry is obviously normal and fine, but once you take it to an insane macro level it is environmentally damaging. But I agree that today's industrialized veggie production is a nightmare too. Have any of you seen the documentary "our daily bread"? There are no words, simply video of the fields and factories where our food is produced. it is pretty amazing/troubling. I think organic food is very important, but sadly not so easy to find. Small scale farmers are virtually extinct in the western world now
Of course raising the wrong species in the wrong environment would be detrimental. For the Midwest and African grassland however, ruminant species play a key role in the environment. Operation Hope won the Buckminster Fuller Prize in 2010 for using cattle as a means of sustenance for the local people and as a way to restore the environment by acting as a surrogate for the greatly reduced populations of other ruminants (water buffalo, antelope, etc.): http://challenge.bfi.org/winner_2010
Actually most cattle are raised on open grassland. This is very sustainable and there isn't an issue about "feed efficiency". The cattle eat grass and poop - this poop happens to be very good for growing new grass. The problem arises with conventionally raised cattle is that the last month or so of their lives they get shoved into a "CAFO"s (concentrated animal feeding operation) which consists of them standing in their own feces eating grain and agricultural waste products (cotton, corn husks, expired candy...yeah). This causes them to put on the pounds for slaughter. It is a miserable existence. The environmental challenge this poses is the fact that there is a bunch of concentrated manure that cannot be handled by the environment. It becomes a contaminant.
Also can we stop with the feed efficiency issue? Animals are predominantly fed the by-products of other agricultural products. This includes corn stalks, cotton mill waste, etc. Pigs are fed just about anything actually...I remember seeing a pig farm outside Las Vegas that got fed left overs from all the buffets. They really liked the left over ice cream if I remember correctly No one is growing strawberries and tomatoes for animal feed.
As far as sustainable options, farmer's markets are popping up in most suburbs. Also try eatwild.com - this is a great repository for eating organic. I'll be getting a quarter share of grass finished cattle this fall.
My grandfather (before his hip fracture) pretty much survived on food he grew (big garden!) and caught (fish). He's someone I definitely want to emulate. Hunting and fishing are probably the best way to ensure that your meat had almost no carbon foot print. The money you pay for your licenses supports preservation and conservation programs. Hunters probably care more for the environment and animals than any other subset (except the hardcore PETA crowd). They demand that more land is conserved for hunting and that species be maintained - I don't know what more you can ask for.
Grass fed beef is one of the most sustainable forms of agriculture and is being used to reverse desertification in Africa.
Really? I thought this was responsible for like infinite deforestation in South america. Maybe in some climates it is sustainable, but especially where water is scarce I am not sure. And with the weight ratio of feed/beef being like 20/1, it is not efficient at all. I think small scale animal husbandry is obviously normal and fine, but once you take it to an insane macro level it is environmentally damaging. But I agree that today's industrialized veggie production is a nightmare too. Have any of you seen the documentary "our daily bread"? There are no words, simply video of the fields and factories where our food is produced. it is pretty amazing/troubling. I think organic food is very important, but sadly not so easy to find. Small scale farmers are virtually extinct in the western world now
It may be responsible for the deforestation in the Amazon Rainforest, but I don't know if that has anything to do with meat consumption in NA or Europe. The only meat I see in the supermarket is from European butcheries, frozen Argentinian steak and NZ lamb, though I do not know if sick stuff like shipping the cattle alive to Europe is done.
Traditionally, meat was only something special that was eaten perhaps once a week or so, and crappy parts of the animal used for broth, so I guess that would be the most that can be produced without today's methods.
My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
That post was pointless. It just repeats arguments that were already brought up by others in this thread. Additionally, all arguments are wrong and misinformed.
First of all, there really is no need to do a lot of research if you just do a Mediterranean, Indian or Japanese diet. This is all stuff that has been proven in practice to be okay food that does not make you die, and has been consumed for a far longer time than the current diets of mass produced meat every day.
While Japanese and Indian cooking may use exotic ingredients, which you will not find in Western supermarkets, all stuff for Italian cooking should be available.
About the heart disease conclusion: the Mediterranean diet was looked at in scientific research in the first place because it is what the people with the least amount of diseases on Earth have used.
The vegetarian you work with does not really sound like a vegetarian to me. Chances are the candy he eats actually has ingredients out of dead animals in it (btw: in the Mediterranean diet, sweets are stuff that should only be consumed once a week).
Monoculture is the most uninvolved way to produce stuff because problems are fixed through chemicals, and giant monoculture farms get the most out of big machines. This causes the cheapest price for grains with that method, and that means that the cheapest meat will also be produced with crops from that and will not be from grass fed cattle.
The thing is, feeding a vegetarian needs only a fraction of the land that is needed for someone that wants steaks or meat-balls at lunch every day (fraction = about one fifth the land). So if you are criticizing monoculture farming you are actually not producing an argument for meat.
The strawberries you mention are the ones sold in winter.
Grass fed cattle is cool in my book, but it is not enough for the current average meat consumption per person (in the Mediterranean diet, which is from a time before meat was mass produced, meat comes up once a month).
The local organic farmer should of course get your money, if you have enough.
The diets you cite also are exemplary in their low sugar consumption which may be a princpial reason they have less heart disease. Gary Taubes' recent NY Times article hits a bit on this but you can learn more in his books like Good Calories, Bad Calories.
We should note that grass land is not exactly the best place to grow tomatoes. We should take into consideration the quality of land in question. I think we all agree that the current US agricultural system makes absolutely no sense - why the heck are people growing corn in the middle of a desert in Arizona?
Some climates are conducive to animal husbandry. Others are more suited to agriculture, others for aqua-culture. That is why native diets vary from the nearly 100% carnivore in Inuit diet to a more vegetarian Indian diet (and I think it is amazing that the human body can handle this variety). Tropical environments are incredibly conducive to high yield plants and fruit trees so it makes sense there for suer. I think folks are turning a blind eye to this fact. Sometimes it is more environmentally friendly to have cows feed on a grassland than to kill all the grass that is there and then build a water well to irrigate corn.
Grass finished meat is about twice the price of grain finished meat. I say finished because most cattle is grass fed then finished in feeding operations designed to fatten them for market. Much of the price difference accounts for the amount of fat the animals put on eating grain. Grain and other starchy carbohydrates are fattening - I just want to emphasize for the folks that want to go vegetarian to be aware of this fact - what makes cows fat will make you fat too :D
Also there is nothing to stop you from growing your own food. I really buy into the whole urban homesteader movement - I think anyone can grow at least some of what they will be eating. Some vegetables are pretty darn hardy and easy to grow. Plant some mint and watch it fight with your lawn. Garlic is a great option too - very few disease or pests will go after it.
Hey, Iwas quite suprised to see this thread...german vegan reporting in =)
btw I'm searching for some ppl to play SC2 with me, since none of my friends want to...they can't stop playin WoW-.- I'm silver on EU Server right now...but still not winning much games so I need some training buddies and ppl to whine about toss op together. since I'm 28 yo, I would prefer ppl around that age =) and if u are vegan or vegetarian that would be even better...no requirement though. just pm me or write me ingame "Franticore".
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Well, when I was little, my mother sometimes bought a chicken that still had organs inside. If she would see the work involved in cooking with that as raw material, rummaging inside the carcass to rip out the organs, it would convince her, I bet.
On April 18 2011 07:01 Ropid wrote: It may be responsible for the deforestation in the Amazon Rainforest, but I don't know if that has anything to do with meat consumption in NA or Europe. The only meat I see in the supermarket is from European butcheries, frozen Argentinian steak and NZ lamb, though I do not know if sick stuff like shipping the cattle alive to Europe is done.
Traditionally, meat was only something special that was eaten perhaps once a week or so, and crappy parts of the animal used for broth, so I guess that would be the most that can be produced without today's methods.
The "crappy" parts were definitely eaten - they are why sausages are so delicious :D
I am really saddened by the squeemishness of most people here in America in trying organ meats or other foods made from them. Unfortunately the foodie epidemic and the growth of minority populations that know how to prepare and eat offal has still raised prices
Organ meats are extremely rich sources of vitamins and nutrients. If someone was going a 100% carnivore diet they would need to eat these other bits to survive.
The desire for protein is always present - your body needs it to survive. Whether this was accomplished from fishing from the river or milking the cow depended on what culture you happened to live in.
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Well, when I was little, my mother sometimes bought a chicken that still had organs inside. If she would see the work involved in cooking with that as raw material, rummaging inside the carcass to rip out the organs, it would convince her, I bet.
There is nothing gross about meat. It is delicious and so are all the parts inside - this is purely a social indoctrination thing. I find it reminiscent of the whole "untouchable" cast in India.
There is no dirty food. Durian is the stinkiest fruit and I love it. Same goes for stinky tofu.
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Don't try to convince her. If she heard the logic you probably already told her and still thinks she is morally better, don't argue with logic again. This is more a relationship issue - you have to tell her how you FEEL when she judges you like this. Not the logic/reasoning side.
On another note, I refuse to read anything on the debates here. I keep opening this thread upon updates hoping to see some interesting stories, tasty recipes, etc. but instead it's so full of arguing :/
I have been a vegetarian my whole life - (22 years) and have never had any serious diet-related health issues. I eat mainly indian and italian cuisine and love it. There is an incredible variety of tastes and styles, I have learned how to use an absolute arsenal of spices and herbs, and I have never felt in any way that I missed something by not eating meat. Food and cooking are a big part of my life since I am a part time cook. I often cook for 50-60 people.
I suppose I am vegetarian for a huge list of reasons - religious, moral, ecological, health-related, and the lifestyle I was raised in, but its not like I am really that conscious of all these factors. the bottom line is that vegetarian food, when done right, can be absolutely delicious. If you take some time to learn to actually cook - not just heat up store bought meals - there are literally hundreds of dishes you can make. from what I have heard, plain meat is just as bland as as plain veges, most of the taste is added. And there is no doubt in my mind that a vegetarian diet is much healthier. to people who ask about protein I always say "Look at elephants/gorillas/bulls etc. Do you think a vegetarian diet makes them weak and malnourished?" I know that you cant exactly compare their requirements with ours, but it is a great point. And there is nothing in meat that has not come from plants.
Is it harder to keep on/gain weight if your a vegetarian? I've been thinking about switching but I only weight 110 lbs and i'm 17, I'm nervous that I will start loosing weight if I make the switch.
I am not vegetarian and used to be a hater of those that were. As time has gone on, I have had less and less faith in my anti-vegetarian arguments, such that now I believe they are pretty stupid.
I am personally not ready to go vegetarian and probably never will be -- I really, really enjoy meat -- but kudos to you guys.
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Hahaha, well, I guess as far as animals go chicken and fish are pretty stupid. Maybe she feels OK eating them because they arent that bright to begin with!
Question to vegetarians here, would you eat insects? Seems like you only really don't like eating somewhat intelligent mammals. In that case it is just a value judgement as to how much a creature is worth.
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Hahaha, well, I guess as far as animals go chicken and fish are pretty stupid. Maybe she feels OK eating them because they arent that bright to begin with!
Question to vegetarians here, would you eat insects? Seems like you only really don't like eating somewhat intelligent mammals. In that case it is just a value judgement as to how much a creature is worth.
Edit: a not an
There are alot of reasons for not eating animals and alot of them apply to insects as well. I personally would have less of a problem eating insects than cows or chicken though, but I probably still wouldn't do it. Depends on alot of factors though, for example how they are killed, how they are kept and how they are fed.
On April 18 2011 07:43 Laerties wrote: Is it harder to keep on/gain weight if your a vegetarian? I've been thinking about switching but I only weight 110 lbs and i'm 17, I'm nervous that I will start loosing weight if I make the switch.
Although not a rule, it is somewhat common for people to lose some weight subsequent their change to vegetarianism. However, it's pertinent to note that "vegetarian" doesn't necessarily equate to "low calorie." There are plenty of vegetarian foods that still contain a great deal of fat, sodium, and calories.
I'll provide a real-life example: I knew of an individual who made the transition to being vegetarian, but made candy bars/snack food a near nightly ritual. Needless to say, no weight loss resulted from this transformation (she actually gained a few pounds). Like most diets, it all depends on your portion control and making smart meal choices.
If you're concerned about weight loss, nuts are a high-calorie food that most vegans/vegetarians look to. It's quite a healthy food, assuming you ingest it with portion control in mind.
On April 18 2011 07:43 Laerties wrote: Is it harder to keep on/gain weight if your a vegetarian? I've been thinking about switching but I only weight 110 lbs and i'm 17, I'm nervous that I will start loosing weight if I make the switch.
"Vegetarian" is usually understood to mean that you still eat dairy products and eggs. That should be enough to replace everything you would have gotten from meat, so I cannot see how you would lose weight. You can also cook greasy vegetarian meals, just like it is with meat.
My own experience is this: I slowly drifted away from eating a lot of meat to eating more vegetables and eventually no meat in my own cooking. I never in my life ate sweets daily and always liked drinking pure water the most when thirsty, never soft drinks. Nothing happened to my weight, it stayed exactly the same without meat. It varies from 165 to 175 lb depending on how much I use my bicycle, I think.
EDIT: What PhalTrax said: if you buy those bags with various nuts and raisins and always have them within reach, you will definitely not lose weight.
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Hahaha, well, I guess as far as animals go chicken and fish are pretty stupid. Maybe she feels OK eating them because they arent that bright to begin with!
Question to vegetarians here, would you eat insects? Seems like you only really don't like eating somewhat intelligent mammals. In that case it is just a value judgement as to how much a creature is worth.
Edit: a not an
I must admit being vegan plus eating insects feels like it makes more sense than being vegetarian and torturing chicken and cows, but the thought of eating insects seriously creeps me out. The food industry would have to come to the rescue to at least turn the bugs into unrecognizable paste before selling it to me. And after that I would still need some brain washing. :>
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Why don't you just tell her to look up the meaning of vegetarian in a dictionary?
Noun: A person who does not eat meat, and sometimes other animal products, esp. for moral, religious, or health reasons
Chicken and fish are meat.
You can rib her for not being a vego and for not understanding the meaning of words (rib was a pun, geddit!?)
On April 18 2011 07:43 Laerties wrote: Is it harder to keep on/gain weight if your a vegetarian? I've been thinking about switching but I only weight 110 lbs and i'm 17, I'm nervous that I will start loosing weight if I make the switch.
"Vegetarian" is usually understood to mean that you still eat dairy products and eggs. That should be enough to replace everything you would have gotten from meat, so I cannot see how you would lose weight. You can also cook greasy vegetarian meals, just like it is with meat.
My own experience is this: I slowly drifted away from eating a lot of meat to eating more vegetables and eventually no meat in my own cooking. I never in my life ate sweets daily and always liked drinking pure water the most when thirsty, never soft drinks. Nothing happened to my weight, it stayed exactly the same without meat. It varies from 165 to 175 lb depending on how much I use my bicycle, I think.
I very much agree with, and can confirm this. I have been a vegetarian my entire life. My parents made the switch about 10 years before I was born and had my sister two years later. My mother has always been a great cook and stay at home mom. Every day of the week, every week of the month, she would make something different and delicious. It was not simply vegetables steamed, or some bullshit that you would find in a restaurant where the cooks who grill meat all day are asked to make something "veggie." She never allowed un-natural sweets in the house, no soft drinks, nothing you could microwave (no microwave in the house.) She is a 35 year+ teacher of Yoga and practices daily in her own routine.
Much of how I grew up shaped my diet. To this day I do not own a microwave, and very rarely eat sweets or soft drinks. It's not that I don't like them, but more I have no taste for them. It just seems ridiculous to me to drink a bottle of sugar water that makes me more thirsty when there are so many better options... one being free and out of a faucet 10 feet away. In addition to not having cravings for things like that, I have no taste or desire for meat. Some meat even smells pretty good to me, but if put it in my mouth my brain tells me not to eat it. Mouth starts to water, stomach starts to turn, and its out of my mouth shortly after the first chew.
My Sister is 33 and a licensed acupuncturist. She has three amazing little girls, and her entire family is vegetarian with heavy glimpses of vegan and raw food diets. She also studies Yoga and leads an active lifestyle. Her health is a direct relation to her diet and motivation to work and stay in shape. Mom and Dad are still vegetarians, 35 years now, and maintain a healthy daily walk every morning and 3 great home cooked meals. They are 63 and 64 and are on no medication, have no regular doctors, and have not had any health problems. My mom has not had to go to the doctor in over 10 years, which was simply a checkup. All of my family goes to my sister for advice on Chinese medicine or Acupuncture/pressure before considering western medicine.
Since I was a boy my peers have always been astounded by my never eating meat. Many because of the sheer deliciousness of meat, and others the health benefits. The decision springs from how we are raised, and hopefully whether or not it has worked for us and our family. I have never had a reason to eat meat. I eat right, and I know how to cook for myself and maintain protein. It is not difficult - meat is not the only way humans are supposed to be nourished --; In my earlier 20's I started working as a cook in downtown Seattle while attending school. I was good at it, had a great influence from my childhood, and amazing teachers along the way. Eventually I was a chef at a restaurant outside of downtown Seattle. I created a menu, weekly specials, catered events, and worked the hot line with my crew. Obviously, people eat meat. I get that, and have never had a problem with it. I like cutting meat, I like cooking meat, and I LOVE creating dishes using meat for a meat lover to enjoy. I just don't eat it. I see it as a texture, with a consistency created from fire.
Whatever diet you choose, make sure it is conducive to your well being. Eating meat can be JUST as healthy as a vegetarian diet. Vegetarian diets can be JUST as full of protein and healthy fats as a steak dinner. Take consideration of what your putting in your body, whether it has walked the earth or not, and you will be a healthy happy person :D
On April 18 2011 09:05 Dalguno wrote: How does all the carbohydrates treat your pancreas? It seems like that'd be a whole lot of insulin, but I don't really know.
The meals do not have more carbohydrates! Well... at least there are not more carbohydrates in my following example:
Imagine a plate with a steak and rice and beans. The carbohydrates of the meal are almost completely in the rice. The steak is protein. Beans have very little carbohydrates and have proteins (a quarter to a third of meat at the same weight).
Vegetarian would be without the steak. The beans and rice can stay. You now make a thick sauce out of thoroughly fried diced onions, celery stalks and bell pepper. With that you can make the beans taste awesome and then increase the amount of beans and replace the missing proteins like that. You put the beans beside the rice. On the opposite side of the plate you shovel some cold yoghurt on the rim beside the rice. The onions, celery, bell pepper add very little carbohydrates and Yoghurt adds a bit of proteins to the meal.
The vast majority of carbohydrates on the plate is still in the rice, same as with the steak plate.
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Why don't you just tell her to look up the meaning of vegetarian in a dictionary?
Noun: A person who does not eat meat, and sometimes other animal products, esp. for moral, religious, or health reasons
Chicken and fish are meat.
You can rib her for not being a vego and for not understanding the meaning of words (rib was a pun, geddit!?)
I'm not a jerk... I'm only a jerk to people I dislike, I do not know, or I have no intention in liking. To be honest I love her (this is the gentle love we share):
Cranberries says: 12 is a lot i have about 6 pairs of shoes? xD Saffi says: ur a guy Cranberries says: gay guy ! Saffi says: i have only like 4 i wear most bi that mostly likes guys Cranberries says: whatever you're a vegetarian that likes chicken and fish Saffi says: XD u suck lol Cranberries says: duhhh, i love it
It's more that I don't understand vegetarians at all... I wake up in the morning - have a bacon and egg sammich, and I'm in heaven :<
On April 18 2011 11:17 Subversion wrote: Don't force your opinions on other people =/
Why not?
If I found eating meat immoral, why wouldn't I try to make other people follow a moral path that reduced suffering?
it makes you look like a cunt?
seriously why the fuck do you think people despise religious people who force their views onto others. christ.
Because they disagree with this specific moral proposition, not the idea that morals should be enforced. It doesn't really make any sense to have this kind of moral relativism if you thought about it for a minute.
If we took this seriously, I could say, "well, it is just your opinion that murder\theft\forgery is wrong. Forcing it on me is just forcing your personal morality on to me."
Basic observation here is most if not all laws regard some sort of moral judgement being enforced. Unless you believe in absolute lawlessness you don't actually disagree with enforcing morals, you are just disagreeing over a specific moral proposition and\or the solution to it.
I wouldn't fault a vegetarian for wanting to prevent something immoral through whatever form of activism, I would just disagree that what they think is immoral is actually immoral. Those are two distinct things.
On April 18 2011 11:17 Subversion wrote: Don't force your opinions on other people =/
Why not?
If I found eating meat immoral, why wouldn't I try to make other people follow a moral path that reduced suffering?
Do you still eat cheese and drink milk? If you do then you are worse than the people who eat meat, because you only pretend not to kill animals, but you are participating in it anyways and dont honor the animal by using its remains. Kinda like those "Buffalo hunters" which crossed the plains of the US in trains and shot the peaceful herds from those trains and left the animals to rot.
A cow only gives milk for 9 months after she has had a calf; generally she gets a few months rest after that milk giving period. Imagine if all of these calfs are let to live and calculate the number of cattle you would have after a natural lifespan of 20 years or so. About 95% (*1) of these would not do anything but would still have to be fed ... So the only real ethical choice is to buy your meat and dairy products from sources where you know the animal has not been mistreated. There are also a lot of sweets which advertise their content of milk and some of them are just plain wrong to eat, because they exist only due to the surplus in milk production (at least in the EU).
If everyone would buy biologically produced meat and dairy products "the industry" would take notice and might be switching to that kind of production. It is the treatment of the animals which is bad, not the eating of meat. Sure the steak would be 100g instead of 400g, but too much meat is bad and all those "super size burgers" or "giant steak eating contests" are giving a bad example anyways.
Everyone has the right to choose his own diet, but the "ethical vegetarians" who still consume milk and dairy products should stop with the pretense that they are nicer to animals.
---- (*1) Lets start with 10.000 cattle, half of them cows and the other bulls, the 5000 cows are used for milk production and thus have to give birth to 1 calf each. Thats 5000 calves every year for 20 years (roughly a cows lifespan) and NONE of those are needed for milk production. So after 20 years you have 100.000 cattle (the original 10.000 died naturally) and only 5000 of them produce milk. Sure you could use more cows to produce milk, but you would have more calves as a result.
If you would read thoroughly, you would have noticed that Romantic is not a vegetarian. You would also have seen that something like your opinion came up in the thread and was discussed. Your post brings no new insight to anyone.
I'm using a mostly vegetarian diet and eat veal at least once per year and also understand where soup hens come from, thank you very much.
On April 18 2011 15:12 Ropid wrote: If you would read thoroughly, you would have noticed that Romantic is not a vegetarian. You would also have seen that something like your opinion came up in the thread and was discussed. Your post brings no new insight to anyone.
I'm using a mostly vegetarian diet and eat veal at least once per year and also understand where soup hens come from, thank you very much.
Indeed! Not a vegetarian, just defending your ability to bitch at people for not being vegetarians .
On April 18 2011 07:02 Cranberries wrote: My friend is a 'vegetarian' but eats chicken and fish: how can I convince her she's not a vegetarian? She seems to think she has a moral monopoly over me because I like steak, and it pisses me off because she is - infact - no better. >.>
Hahaha, well, I guess as far as animals go chicken and fish are pretty stupid. Maybe she feels OK eating them because they arent that bright to begin with!
Neither are cows. Turkeys are generally considered the most stupid animal alive, next to scientologists.
Stop arguing with the non vegetarians. Most are not here to because they are interesting, but because they want to argue.
Also will the OP please update the recipe list? It is painful to read through all these comments. If you don't have the time can you or a mod give me access so i can update it?
I have a serious question even though I'm aware it may seem like I'm not serious, but I am. Whenever I eat a lot of vegetables I tend to get really gassy. Is that normal? How do you have that not happen?
Ex-vegetarian here. Stopped eating meat cause I was cool and anti-mainstream. I guess I grew out of that phase and now I try to eat as many different things as I can.
I gotta say though, it is hard to be a vegetarian and downright a full-time job to be a vegan. Shopping takes longer. Cooking takes longer. Food is more expensive. Can't eat out in most places that are mainstream middle America. Maybe it is easier (and tastier) in other countries, but I felt like I was somehow missing out on life by not eating meat. Not just in terms of foods, but social experiences as well.
On April 24 2011 13:28 Owompa wrote: Ex-vegetarian here. Stopped eating meat cause I was cool and anti-mainstream. I guess I grew out of that phase and now I try to eat as many different things as I can.
I gotta say though, it is hard to be a vegetarian and downright a full-time job to be a vegan. Shopping takes longer. Cooking takes longer. Food is more expensive. Can't eat out in most places that are mainstream middle America. Maybe it is easier (and tastier) in other countries, but I felt like I was somehow missing out on life by not eating meat. Not just in terms of foods, but social experiences as well.
It's easier in the US than anywhere else, I would think. The amount of products and alternatives you guys have there is incredible. I envy you guys so much, we have almost nothing here...
I've been vegan for 11 years now, and I think being vegan does give you that feeling that you are missing out on things, a bit similar to not drinking alcohol. Dating is especially harder... But just being being vegetarian (eating eggs and dairy) doesn't sound like a hardship at all.
But if the reason why you stopped eating meat was to be "cool" and "anti-mainstream", just a phase, you were bound to give up someday, no matter how hard or easy was it...
I am a vegetarian and have been for almost 3 years. I am a huge fan of Morningstar Farms products. The sausage patties and the bacon (while tasting not much like real meat) are fantastic with their own unique flavor. I love their burgers as well - Grillers.
My gf is vegan so we eat a ton of vegetables and I love cheese.
It's good times; we do care what others eat as raising beef is pretty lousy for the environment & mass chickens produce nasty waste - but we don't shove our beliefs and opinions onto other people...
I've been a vegetarian my entire life. At first it was because of my religion/parental influence, but as I grew older and grew more independent from my parents (and less religious) It became more of a lifestyle choice. I mean I've been following a vegetarian lifestyle for 17 years, and I had no problem with it. The only exceptions (if they count as "non-veg") are eggs and milk.
I would offer recipes, but I can't really cook. Sorry. ^^;
I've been a vegetarian for a year and some change now. I tried being a vegetarian a couple times in high school, but school lunches and my laziness proved to be a bit of an obstacle. I haven't really had any desire to go back to eating meat since I stopped over a year ago, though. Only sometimes, when I'm extremely hungry and smell tasty meat. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy and, as far as I know, healthy eating vegetarian. I'm not a vegan, but I try to drink almond/soy/organic milk and get cage-free eggs whenever possible.
I'm a pretty lazy vegetarian, so I don't really have any recipes. I love Morningstar Farms. Besides that, I eat a lot of grains like cereal, oatmeal and pasta. Oh and Mexican food! Yumyum. When I do cook, though, it's usually just a bunch of stuff in a pan. Honestly, cooking is so versatile that I just wing it every time. Baking is what needs accuracy and attention.
One thing that annoys the hell out of me as a vegetarian: when there's gelatin in something you wouldn't expect. For instance, multivitamins, Planter's dry roasted peanuts and Kellog's Frosted Mini Wheats. Plus yogurt, but that makes a bit of sense, I suppose. Stonyfield Farms is better anyway.
Oh! And I'm a vegetarian for mostly ethical reasons, I'd say. But also a bit of health.
On April 24 2011 13:21 ChiknAdobo wrote: I have a serious question even though I'm aware it may seem like I'm not serious, but I am. Whenever I eat a lot of vegetables I tend to get really gassy. Is that normal? How do you have that not happen?
I believe everyone has a unique gut flora and this is where problems come from if you eat something unusual compared to your normal meals. I guess the balance of bacteria would change over time when eating vegetables daily, though I do not know if that would mean less gases.
On April 24 2011 13:21 ChiknAdobo wrote: I have a serious question even though I'm aware it may seem like I'm not serious, but I am. Whenever I eat a lot of vegetables I tend to get really gassy. Is that normal? How do you have that not happen?
I believe everyone has a unique gut flora and this is where problems come from if you eat something unusual compared to your normal meals. I guess the balance of bacteria would change over time when eating vegetables daily, though I do not know if that would mean less gases.
Oh, I was going to answer this but forgot. My guess is probably the amount of fiber. Lots of fiber = gassy + good poops. I guess you could take Beano, which helps prevent gas, or just spread out your vegetable servings. Or take out some fiber-rich vegetables and replace them with other ones.
Cows would be extinct without agriculture. Why do you condone genocide.
Secondly, without modern agriculture, probably 75% of this board would not exist. There is no way to raise that much food without resorting to these techniques. Sure, we could make improvements, but we aren't going back to the way farming was done in the 1800s. That type of farming simply doesn't produce enough food to feed the people alive today.
Finally, there is no example of a vegeterian culture in the entire history of humanity except for the modern era where supplementation is possible.
On April 25 2011 04:37 0mar wrote: Cows would be extinct without agriculture. Why do you condone genocide.
Secondly, without modern agriculture, probably 75% of this board would not exist. There is no way to raise that much food without resorting to these techniques. Sure, we could make improvements, but we aren't going back to the way farming was done in the 1800s. That type of farming simply doesn't produce enough food to feed the people alive today.
Finally, there is no example of a vegeterian culture in the entire history of humanity except for the modern era where supplementation is possible.
I don't usually want to get into arguments in this thread, but this is just misinformation.
The cows would be extinct argument is stupid, but I guess you're trolling so whatever.
Where do you get this idea of going back to 1800's farming methods? Meat is an inefficient industry anyway. You can produce more calories worth of vegetables on less land than you can with meat. So I don't even see what you're trying to argue here. Meat used to be a massive luxury like 50-100 years ago. People at it maybe 2 or 3 times a week in most rural scottish communities, and then in small portions. So modern agriculture developed around growing vegetables and grains. Industrial farming on the American scale is a modern invention, and incredibly inefficient. It's only really viable due to corn being heavily subsidised by the American government. Otherwise it doesnt make any agricultural sense, and I would like to hear you argue that it is an efficient system if you want to (taking into account the amount of transportation necessary).
There are many examples of long term Vegetarian cultures in history. People initially largely consumed vegetables even in western countries, very little meat consumed. And go look at Asia. India and countries with strong buddhist roots have long term histories of vegetarianism.
This thread pushed me to finally make the step and become vegetarian. I'm on day 6 so far and I feel pretty good, I've gained maybe 1-2 pounds which is incredible, I guess I've been forcing myself to eat extra out of nervousness of loosing weight. I feel really good knowing that I have the mental strength to prioritize my morals over my meat eating impulses.
On April 26 2011 13:06 Laerties wrote: This thread pushed me to finally make the step and become vegetarian. I'm on day 6 so far and I feel pretty good, I've gained maybe 1-2 pounds which is incredible, I guess I've been forcing myself to eat extra out of nervousness of loosing weight. I feel really good knowing that I have the mental strength to prioritize my morals over my meat eating impulses.
So I went veggie when I started doing MMA because you can cut weight faster. The weight you gain when you start is largely water weight. Most green things have a ton of water and actually weigh more than you'd expect. As a result, I,forexample, gain 5 lbs of water weight in the first week or two of eating a green-dominant diet. You will lose that pretty quickly aslong as you aren't a pizza and ice cream veggie.
When I started, I was 5'9, 160. I was down to 140 soaking wet with <5% body fat and wayyyy more fit than I've ever been. Despite my previous lack of current workout regime, I was able to still toss down 40+ pushups cold, crank out pull ups, all that kinda stuff mostly because I almost all lean mass, so now that I am working out and such, I put on visible muscle mass almost daily with a very mild but consistent training plan.
Its hard to over eat when you are a veggie, so long as you hit your protein req, you can basically eat 24/7 without risking any weight gain.
I did the master cleanse for 4 days last week, did not exactly followed it to the book, but ever since I have been on a raw diet of just fruits and veggys no meat what so ever, its been 5 days today and I dont really miss meat that much, I thought it would deff be harder.
I had always thought vegans and vegs were crazy not to eat meat, but after all is not that bad!
On April 29 2011 01:14 mAKiTO wrote: I did the master cleanse for 4 days last week, did not exactly followed it to the book, but ever since I have been on a raw diet of just fruits and veggys no meat what so ever, its been 5 days today and I dont really miss meat that much, I thought it would deff be harder.
I had always thought vegans and vegs were crazy not to eat meat, but after all is not that bad!
If you're including the difficulty of the master cleanse in that, it wasn't that bad because you stopped at 4 days. The 5th-7th days are by far the hardest.
i drastically cut down on my meat intake a bit ago, and i don't really miss it at all. this along with a newfound habit of jogging everyday has made me feel a lot better in general. i eat meat only when it's impractical to avoid it, for example if my stoner friends are craving korean barbecue place or hamburgers. meat is super delicious but it's not a big deal to eat it only once every few weeks.
i don't know how vegans do it though, vegan food has always been extremely, extremely bland to me. i think what i miss mostly is the loss of texture animal fats provide.
On April 29 2011 02:29 intrigue wrote: i don't know how vegans do it though, vegan food has always been extremely, extremely bland to me. i think what i miss mostly is the loss of texture animal fats provide.
Most vegans do it because they feel compassion for the animals, not because they dislike the taste of meat.
On April 29 2011 02:29 intrigue wrote: i don't know how vegans do it though, vegan food has always been extremely, extremely bland to me. i think what i miss mostly is the loss of texture animal fats provide.
Most vegans do it because they feel compassion for the animals, not because they dislike the taste of meat.
A bit of nitpicking: he does not talk about meat, but cheese and cream. Hearty meals like gratins, with layered potatoes and cheese (and perhaps egg) and drowned in cream, which is animal fats and proteins, are vegetarian but not vegan.
Vegan food doesn't need to be bland at all. Some aspects of Indian cuisine is all around vegetarian diet and it's far from being bland. Animal fat is very delicious, but not necessary to make things flavorful. The good use of condiments, spices, and herbs are the key to make things not bland with or without meat.
On April 29 2011 00:59 ChiknAdobo wrote: What is the required protein amount. And what kind of supplements do you take?
I don't know the exactly amount, but if protein is an issue, you can eat amaranths or quinoa seeds plus buckwheat, beans and lentils for you protein needs. You don't need to eat only soy products for that. For omega 3 there is a plant considered a weed called verdolaga that is very rich in that (although too much verdolaga may contribute to kidney stones). Quinoa is rich in iron too. Anyway, you can complement your diet with whatever supplement pills out there.
EDIt: ops, sorry, double post while trying to edit post.
On April 29 2011 02:29 intrigue wrote: i drastically cut down on my meat intake a bit ago, and i don't really miss it at all. this along with a newfound habit of jogging everyday has made me feel a lot better in general. i eat meat only when it's impractical to avoid it, for example if my stoner friends are craving korean barbecue place or hamburgers. meat is super delicious but it's not a big deal to eat it only once every few weeks.
i don't know how vegans do it though, vegan food has always been extremely, extremely bland to me. i think what i miss mostly is the loss of texture animal fats provide.
As a vegetarian, I've attempted going vegan many times. However, through a mix of additional inconveniences, costs, and the taste/textures, I always end up going back to vegetarian. I enjoy some vegan food, but not the fake cheese, fake dairy, etc kinds. Those were awful. Naturally vegan food can be really good when well spiced and prepared.
On April 30 2011 21:57 AlecPyron wrote: Vegan food doesn't need to be bland at all. Some aspects of Indian cuisine is all around vegetarian diet and it's far from being bland. Animal fat is very delicious, but not necessary to make things flavorful. The good use of condiments, spices, and herbs are the key to make things not bland with or without meat.
Regarding taste, i think there is a huge difference between foods/dishes that are "supposed" to be vegan (e.g. indian cuisine) and foods/dishes that are "supposed" to contain animal products, that were omitted or replaced by some soy product. The latter is nearly always bland or lacking "something". I think the issue is that not only the protein needs to be replaced, but also the umami flavor. Hence, i add things like sun-dried-tomatoes, olives or mushrooms when i cook vegetarian.
I have been trying to go veg for some time now. I play with the idea, but I always get caught up on one aspect, hunger. If I don't have a heavy fat food in my diet, I get really hungry it seems. I am pretty skinny, about 160lbs and 6foot. Something about beans/rice, salads, and tons of fruits/veggs just don't seem to fill me up like some greasy chinese or 3cheese pizza. Any suggestions for some really filling but veg foods? Also things that are on the go foods, I am on campus a lot so foods I can take with me are usually good.
Just tough it out, your metabolism needs time to adapt. Meat is not an 'addiction' addiction, but your body has gotten used to it, you need to de'tox'. Or consider it breaking up with a long-time lover. And grow a spine :p
The human body didn't evolve to eat a purely vegan diet much less the amount of carbohydrates we consume nowadays. If you go vegan you run the risk of becoming iron anemic, having blood sugar problems, and having amino acid deficiency's. Our ancestors didn't use complex hunting tools to hunt cabbage. I recommended trying to eat the diet man evolved to eat, which was a high fat low carb diet primary based on animal foods. The idea that veganism will benefit the environment is a myth, Agriculture is much more high impact and harmful for the environment than hunting/fishing and pastoralism ever were. Of course the downside is there are so many humans, due to agriculture, every person could never aspire to eat a paleolithic diet as there are so many people. However, If you can afford to play a videogame you probably live in a well-off enough country to eat such a diet.
I have no problem with anyone going vegan out of personal choice, but if you've talked to any long time former vegan's they will tell you it is not a life style if you are trying to gain optimal health. Beware of the risk's!
On April 29 2011 00:59 ChiknAdobo wrote: What is the required protein amount. And what kind of supplements do you take?
So if you are weight-lifting/trying to gain muscle mass, ideal protein intake is about 1gram per kilogram of body weight. So thats your weight in lbs/2.2. When you pick an ideal protein supplement, ideally it is not simple amino acids (their uptake is harder on the body, believe it or not), but most importantly that you it is a complete supplement. Despite what they tell you, BCAA (branch chain amino acids) or other specific protein supplements don't have any advantages and they definitely have some downsides. Not all amino acids can be interconverted to a useful form so taking excess of one amino acid family will do the same as taking excess of any protein, i.e. damage to your kidneys in the long term and large amounts of excreted protein in urine.
You do NOT need anything more than 1.5g/kg at the most. People telling you to eat more are relying on anecdotal evidence. The studies out there show that most of what happens when you take more than 1.5g/kg of protein just pee it out in the next 24 hours. Whoo-hoo expensive urine!
On April 12 2011 03:29 Eppa! wrote: I am not a vegetarian, I used to eat like 70% vegetarian food at one time and what really turned me of is the tastelessness of anything that isn't made "a la minute" (sp?). I really feel that vegetarian pre made food and substitutes are really poorly made.
I work as chef and honestly vegetarian food can be good but it takes a lot of effort (and love) to make it not taste like a watered down meat dishes; especially soup with vegetable stock instead of chicken stock. You really need to spice vegetarian dishes a lot more than meat dishes to get a satisfying result.
You should learn to cook Chinese . We've had 5,000 years to develop good recipes for eating veggies. And by Chinese, I mean real Chinese food, not that horrendous shit they sell in little take-out shops.
On April 12 2011 03:29 Eppa! wrote: I am not a vegetarian, I used to eat like 70% vegetarian food at one time and what really turned me of is the tastelessness of anything that isn't made "a la minute" (sp?). I really feel that vegetarian pre made food and substitutes are really poorly made.
I work as chef and honestly vegetarian food can be good but it takes a lot of effort (and love) to make it not taste like a watered down meat dishes; especially soup with vegetable stock instead of chicken stock. You really need to spice vegetarian dishes a lot more than meat dishes to get a satisfying result.
You should learn to cook Chinese . We've had 5,000 years to develop good recipes for eating veggies. And by Chinese, I mean real Chinese food, not that horrendous shit they sell in little take-out shops.
I LOVE chinese food.
I really want to either go vegan or vegetarian but I don't think I could adapt all that well.. I mean, I hate all of the cruelty that fast food restaurants and factory farms bring to animals but I don't know what I would eat at lunch when I go to restaurants or go to friends houses..
Lately I have been trying to cut back, I don't drink much milk but consume a lot of eggs and cheese, what do vegan diets contain? Oat meal? If I do decide to go vegan it will be on my birthday in 1 months time but I am trying to decide, because I think I will be struggling for food at lunches and when at friends houses. I don't eat food because I enjoy it, but because I have to.. TBH I could live off of Rice, beans and asparagus..
^ You sir have not lived until you eat food rather to enjoy instead of to sustain.
That said I'm thinking of doing a 1 month vegetarian diet over the summer to just try it out. Wouldn't go off meat entirely just off it so I could learn to eat a bit healthier.
On April 12 2011 03:29 Eppa! wrote: I am not a vegetarian, I used to eat like 70% vegetarian food at one time and what really turned me of is the tastelessness of anything that isn't made "a la minute" (sp?). I really feel that vegetarian pre made food and substitutes are really poorly made.
I work as chef and honestly vegetarian food can be good but it takes a lot of effort (and love) to make it not taste like a watered down meat dishes; especially soup with vegetable stock instead of chicken stock. You really need to spice vegetarian dishes a lot more than meat dishes to get a satisfying result.
You should learn to cook Chinese . We've had 5,000 years to develop good recipes for eating veggies. And by Chinese, I mean real Chinese food, not that horrendous shit they sell in little take-out shops.
I LOVE chinese food.
I really want to either go vegan or vegetarian but I don't think I could adapt all that well.. I mean, I hate all of the cruelty that fast food restaurants and factory farms bring to animals but I don't know what I would eat at lunch when I go to restaurants or go to friends houses..
Lately I have been trying to cut back, I don't drink much milk but consume a lot of eggs and cheese, what do vegan diets contain? Oat meal? If I do decide to go vegan it will be on my birthday in 1 months time but I am trying to decide, because I think I will be struggling for food at lunches and when at friends houses. I don't eat food because I enjoy it, but because I have to.. TBH I could live off of Rice, beans and asparagus..
Nuts and avocados pretty much contain all the nutrients you need. The one thing you have to be aware of is Vitamin B12, which can be fortified in foods such as soy milk or taken as a supplement.
On May 01 2011 19:41 RedDragon571 wrote: The human body didn't evolve to eat a purely vegan diet much less the amount of carbohydrates we consume nowadays. If you go vegan you run the risk of becoming iron anemic, having blood sugar problems, and having amino acid deficiency's. Our ancestors didn't use complex hunting tools to hunt cabbage. I recommended trying to eat the diet man evolved to eat, which was a high fat low carb diet primary based on animal foods. The idea that veganism will benefit the environment is a myth, Agriculture is much more high impact and harmful for the environment than hunting/fishing and pastoralism ever were. Of course the downside is there are so many humans, due to agriculture, every person could never aspire to eat a paleolithic diet as there are so many people. However, If you can afford to play a videogame you probably live in a well-off enough country to eat such a diet.
I have no problem with anyone going vegan out of personal choice, but if you've talked to any long time former vegan's they will tell you it is not a life style if you are trying to gain optimal health. Beware of the risk's!
Wow! you have PHDs in Nutrition, Environmental Science, AND socio-economics? -_-
Vegetarien two years. Planning to go vegan when I move out of my parents house and have more control over what food surrounds me. Cool thread guys.
On June 01 2011 10:27 Jeremyy wrote: I can't eat plants because I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing I killed all of those innocent, helpless plants.
lol. Close this thread. This community isn't mature enough to tolerate a group of people who want to share recipes and tips without stomping in and putting in their retarded/sarcastic two cents as to why those people are wrong. See the post(S) above me for examples.
Edit: had to add the s, as the retarded post multiplied while I was writing this.
I totally love being vegetarian. It's just a super healthy lifestyle that has yet to take hold in the mainstream of society but other will soon follow when they realize that vegetarians don't get cancer or die young.
On June 01 2011 10:29 Lexpar wrote: lol. Close this thread. This community isn't mature enough to tolerate a group of people who want to share recipes and tips without stomping in and putting in their retarded/sarcastic two cents as to why those people are wrong. See the post(S) above me for examples.
Edit: had to add the s, as there was only one retarded post at the time of original posting.
Most mature people don't call people retarded over arguably bad jokes.
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
This quote is also attributed to Adolf Hitler (more likely to dear old Adolf instead of dear old Einstein) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Animals#Unsourced Hope that doesn't change your mind.
On June 01 2011 10:36 johanngrunt wrote: Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
This quote is also attributed to Adolf Hitler (more likely to dear old Adolf instead of dear old Einstein) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Animals#Unsourced Hope that doesn't change your mind.
Edit: aren't 1 word posts warn-worthy?
I think it's on it's way.
Also- it doesn't really matter that Hitler said it. He's right. You're pursuing a pretty serious ad hominem argument if you were to think everything Hitler has ever said was wrong because of his actions.
Hi guys, I want to turn vegetarian but I don't know if I have the necessary will.
I love animals and I think they shouldn't be killed for meat because we can live without. This is like genocide for the luxe of it. I know a lot of people here are fine with this but I don't.
The thing is that I know that turning vegetarian won't save any animal life. So I think the difficulty sits here. What do you do to help you thinking that what you do is good in any mesure ?
Anyway, respect, guys.
Adding a quote "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men." Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist and truly badass genious
Hey Diks. Saying your vegetarianism won't save an animal is like saying your vote won't decide the next President or Prime Minister. This sort of mentality is deeply flawed: if everyone thought it (too many do) than any positive social change would be totally impossible! What if every black man living in 1960 in America thought he was just one person, and he couldn't change anything? We would be living in a radically different world!
If you don't eat meat, you lower (if slightly) the demand for meat in your area. The most awful factory farms especially can't afford to be producing significantly more product than people buy. Maybe no one animal will be saved because you go vegetarian. But we can be SURE that no animals will be saved if you don't. The more people who go vege, the more animals WILL be saved. Hope that answers your question
On June 01 2011 10:39 Diks wrote: Hi guys, I want to turn vegetarian but I don't know if I have the necessary will.
I love animals and I think they shouldn't be killed for meat because we can live without. This is like genocide for the luxe of it. I know a lot of people here are fine with this but I don't.
The thing is that I know that turning vegetarian won't save any animal life. So I think the difficulty sits here. What do you do to help you thinking that what you do is good in any mesure ?
Anyway, respect, guys.
Adding a quote "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men." Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist and truly badass genious
Animals are bred because we eat them and they won't be if we don't and we would stop "manufacturing" them. Wild cows don't do well
On June 01 2011 10:36 johanngrunt wrote: Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
This quote is also attributed to Adolf Hitler (more likely to dear old Adolf instead of dear old Einstein) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Animals#Unsourced Hope that doesn't change your mind.
Edit: aren't 1 word posts warn-worthy?
I think it's on it's way.
Also- it doesn't really matter that Hitler said it. He's right. You're pursuing a pretty serious ad hominem argument if you were to think everything Hitler has ever said was wrong because of his actions.
Notice I never made a value judgement. I was just presenting the facts.
On June 01 2011 10:36 johanngrunt wrote: Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -- Albert Einstein
This quote is also attributed to Adolf Hitler (more likely to dear old Adolf instead of dear old Einstein) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Animals#Unsourced Hope that doesn't change your mind.
Edit: aren't 1 word posts warn-worthy?
I think it's on it's way.
Also- it doesn't really matter that Hitler said it. He's right. You're pursuing a pretty serious ad hominem argument if you were to think everything Hitler has ever said was wrong because of his actions.
Notice I never made a value judgement. I was just presenting the facts.
Facts? The page is unsourced and everything on Google seems to suggest that it was in fact Albert Einstein we said it and some wiki troll attributed it to Adolf Hitler. I'm not a vegetarian (in fact, I'm very much the opposite) but that does look like a forgery.
Hell, the fact that the quote appears on that wiki page twice goes to show that you can't exactly trust it. (Granted you should know that, since it's Wikipedia)
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-mur.jpg)
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I've found turning vegan easy, being an avid cook and generally healthy person.![[image loading]](http://www.sanitarium.com.au/~/media/products/vegetarian/vegie-delights/new-pack/Not-Burgers-375g.ashx?bc=ffffff&h=180&w=286)
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you have not lived
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