EPTVegetarian/Vegan Thread - Page 20
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Do not make this a debate on meat eating. You don't need to prove people "wrong" about their eating habits. | ||
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Serthius
Samoa226 Posts
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frogurt
Australia907 Posts
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Brotkrumen
Germany193 Posts
On April 16 2011 18:57 VIB wrote: So..... how do I find a good nutrition guide so I can understand which vegetables I need to put together to get my daily nutritional needs? Just make your salad as colorful as possible. Vary the stuff from day to day, cook some, eat some raw. Basically you can't go wrong if you vary a lot. Eat beans, stay away from soy products, nuts, seeds, dairy and maybe some B12 vitamins if you don't get enough dairy. Also, I really like the mad vegan activist c&p some www.lolveganrocks.com links and getting all touchy when he is called on his biased sources. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On April 16 2011 20:22 Brotkrumen wrote: I don't know, I'm a bit skeptic of "can't go wrong". I'm afraid that, because of my lack of knowledge, I'll end up mixing wrong stuff and will missing something. I cannot just buy everything every week. Is it that hard to find a nice nutrition table so I know which vegetables complements which ones? Most sites tell me different vegetables give me different parts of my protein needs, but I cannot find which ones give what.Just make your salad as colorful as possible. Vary the stuff from day to day, cook some, eat some raw. Basically you can't go wrong if you vary a lot. Eat beans, stay away from soy products, nuts, seeds, dairy and maybe some B12 vitamins if you don't get enough dairy. | ||
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nepeta
1872 Posts
On April 16 2011 20:04 Serthius wrote: Sad to see this thread deteriorate into idiotic arguments. I was hoping for some good recipes. :/ Sorry to disappoint :p To correct: If you're an ovitarian, fooyounghai (sp?), just eggs with sauce, you can basically put anything in it, very easy to make. Goes good with rice and pasta. My favourite is to use eggs, pour sweet-sour sauce over it and add whatever vegetables I've got left (usually spinach, broccoli, carrots) to the soup. Another quick fix is tempeh, high protein soy-bean product, not as bland as tofu (what isn't...). Just fry it, add sauce, or herbs /whatever makes you tick. I like to slice it really thin, then serve it with indonesian sateh sauce (hot). Add some un- or slightly cooked cold vegetables, and you're good. Quinoa, a South American grain, to bake bread. More nutritious than wheat, tastes different/better. Note: while baking, it smells like the kitchen is being used by an East Asian subsidiary of IG Farben, but the result is non-toxic and very edible. Also available in broken form; can be welled and cooked plain, good food. A bit like... there's something else like it but I forgot the name. Beans. You'd be amazed how many kinds there are, and what you can do with them. I usually cook 'm straight up, but there are an unholy many recipes for veg/bean/x combo dishes out there, ask mr G. Tip: avoid pre-fab meat replacement stuff like tofu burgers and whatnot, usually they're full of salt and other mess you wouldn't feed your garbage burner. | ||
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nepeta
1872 Posts
On April 16 2011 20:35 VIB wrote: I don't know, I'm a bit skeptic of "can't go wrong". I'm afraid that, because of my lack of knowledge, I'll end up mixing wrong stuff and will missing something. I cannot just buy everything every week. Is it that hard to find a nice nutrition table so I know which vegetables complements which ones? Most sites tell me different vegetables give me different parts of my protein needs, but I cannot find which ones give what. Leaf veggies (spinach etc) usually contain lots of iron, broccoli has a lot of good stuff (also coconuts!). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian_Diet_Pyramid and Google, it's really not that hard if you keep your eyes open :p | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On April 16 2011 16:09 RawVeganYes wrote: If by luxury lifesyle you mean cheaper than eating meat? Ya it is. Last time I checked an apple was cheaper than a piece of meat. Hell a bunch of bananas is cheaper than meat. Someone made a comment on a different vegan thread be4 it got closed about how poor countries would laugh at the thought of being vegan and that it is a luxury. That comment made me want to face palm. Eating Vegan is far less expensive than eating a meat diet. Fruits and veggies are found in every part of every country. Refraining from eating meat only takes willpower and the awareness to stop. A small amount. Vietnam and India among other countries have a good amount of veggie/vegan population. Supplements are not required with very minimal research. Idk why your calling a vitamin a pill like its crack or something. It's just silly. For reference I am a 10 year vegan. 9 years of which have been raw vegan. Doctors and tests says I could not be much healthier. Am I superman? No. Humans are born plant eaters. The diet and lifestyle requires some amount planning. Like any diet should. By "a luxury lifestyle" I mean a lifestyle you can only live in our overly rich western countries. Try living a vegan lifestyle in eastern Europe, central Asia or Africa and you'll die of malnutrition before long. I've absolutely got nothing against a vegetarian lifestyle, a lot of people throughout the world live that way. I'm not a vegetarian myself but I love my vegetables. Veganism, on the other hand, is comparable to islamism or orthodox christianity: a small group of people with rather extreme and unhealthy ideas. If you need to resort to pills and vitamins to keep your diet healthy, you know you're doing something wrong. Pills nowadays are generally a solution to the symptom, not to the problem. | ||
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pyrogenetix
United Arab Emirates5091 Posts
on a global level its wealth inequality. veganism is a first world luxury (shameless quote by anthony bourdain) and only by getting world governments to stop industrial production of subsidized meat can you significantly press down the demand for meat. until you do that no real change is going to happen. meat is tasty and way too cheap. even if you made it illegal you would have huge black markets selling meat to people at ridiculous prices like weed and alcohol. I like people that are vegetarian for themselves, just like people that bike instead of taking a car or people that do volunteer work. it's not bad, but it's not really changing anything either. significant change only happens through law or price regulation. and seeing as how most of the population loves stuffing their faces with seared pieces of muscle and fat, i don't see any such changes happening in the near future. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
eating good and I mean very good meat (no rubbish, np cheap stuff) >> being vegan/vegetarian eating cheap and very bad meat <<< being vegan/vegetarian I dont see a reason to be vegetarian because of certain moral views or whatever. Animals are supposed to get killed in order to be eaten. (hint: take a look at what happens in nature on a daily basis) | ||
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coopes
United States144 Posts
On April 16 2011 22:28 MaGic~PhiL wrote: my opinion: eating good and I mean very good meat (no rubbish, np cheap stuff) >> being vegan/vegetarian eating cheap and very bad meat <<< being vegan/vegetarian I dont see a reason to be vegetarian because of certain moral views or whatever. Animals are supposed to get killed in order to be eaten. (hint: take a look at what happens in nature on a daily basis) Animals killing and eating other Animals in the wild does not justify Animals to be killed and eaten by humans...I'm not here to preach Animal cruelty or morality but that kind of logic is just...flawed. | ||
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CorporationsRule
United States10 Posts
“The land has already been clearcut and monocropped, it's already dead and unless everyone on the planet starts being a producer instead of a consumer we're never going to get rid of that problem.”—dANiELcanuck Bam, that’s what I’m talking about. Love. Also, On April 16 2011 05:44 CorporationsRule wrote: Part of the evolutionary diet perspective is to admit that we can never fully understand anything in science because the world is infinitely complex, so to be able to say "after analyzing milk I think it has everything you need" even though it is not what we evolved eating (after being weened from our mother's breast milk of course) is not something that can ever be completely proven. ________________________________________ “is still the dumbest, most head-in-the-sand rationalization.”- bahl sofs tiil “All I know is that I know nothing”—Socrates (not from this thread) How is that a rationalization? That’s just me saying I’m not sure, and that I’m not sure we can ever be sure of anything, which is a fundamental axiom of Western science…and indigenous spirituality…In the case of the indigenous, this acknowledgement of infinite complexity and notions of intersubjectivity rather than objectivity often lead to sustainable cultures that respected the biosphere. Hopefully Western culture will catch up to the insights of its own quantum physics soon, so we can bring the death machine to a hault. “Natural science, does not simply describe and explain nature; it is part of the interplay between nature and ourselves.” -Werner Heisenberg “What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning.”-Werner Heisenberg Couldn’t decide between the two because they are both so rad, so you get both. | ||
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funnybananaman
United States830 Posts
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revy
United States1524 Posts
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: I'm sorry but this is the point where I have to come back to this discussion. It is people such as you, and the person in the video who anger me; people that try to prove the superiority of their beliefs. People who try to use science (badly might I add) to prove that their morality or way of life is superior. I don't mean to single out just the vegetarian side of the argument, there are tons of equally idiotic omnivores in this thread. As for the video, our eyes point forwards, that's a trait of a hunter not an herbivore. Trying to prove that humanity isn't an omnivore is like trying to disprove the existence of zero, it's just nonsense. One of humanities greatest strengths is our adaptability, that's why we dominate the planet. Long ago hominids became able to process meat and became hunters. They saw a quick increase in brain mass. This does not indicate that humanity must eat meat to survive, nor does it imply meat is inherently a better, but because it was easier to fill our bellies before we understood how to farm. Infact, it was largely farming (not a hunter/gatherer existence) which lead to the success of human civilization. It's called tolerance. You like to eat only vegetables? Great for you, enjoy! You like to eat meat? Again, that's good for you. The fact of the matter is that either side can live a healthy existence providing that you properly plan your diet. Trying to prove that one side or the other is superior than the other is silly, you're merely cherry picking "facts" to try and alter someone's sense of "right". Rightness and morality are artificial constructs. There exists no "gold standard" of morality. Do what you feel like, don't try to push your beliefs onto me and everything will be perfect. The point of this thread was not 20 pages of idiot omnivores fighting idiot vegetarians about the "rightness" of their beliefs. This thread was started on the premise of sharing knowledge of vegetarian products and recipes. I don't want to have to wade through BS to find the few gems of posts which actually stick to the topic (thanks much to these people). The word of today? Tolerance. Plain and simple. | ||
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Deja Thoris
South Africa646 Posts
You need, 2 shallots (red onions), 2 tins red kidney beans, garlic, 2 red peppers. 2 cans of tomatos, a packet of mushrooms, garlic and some form of thickener such as maize paste. Prepare the veggies by slicing, dicing etc and then pan fry the onions in a little water. Then add the peppers and fry for just a minute or two to soften a little. Add all other ingredients except the mushrooms and thickener, dont forget to add the tomato juice! Add some water (less than a soup or stew but enough to cook in) and leave to cook for about 15 minutes, add the mushrooms. Leave to cook for another 5 minutes and add thickener to the juice. Serve and enjoy (yeah I did it from *poor* memory) but I always fins this really tasty, especially at winter time. | ||
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Suisen
256 Posts
On April 16 2011 18:57 VIB wrote: So..... how do I find a good nutrition guide so I can understand which vegetables I need to put together to get my daily nutritional needs? You don't need to know what nutrition vegetables actually have. The thing is about one single vegetable not having enough of all the essential amino acids. The problem is if you eat nothing but onions, water and vitamin pills, you will be lacking some essential amino acids. A single vegetable isn't a balanced source for all amino acids. But it is a good course of protein and even more so of minerals and vitamins. Potato, rice other cereals, they are included in this rule. They will have lots of protein but they won't be balanced. If you each nothing but french fries and spinach I don't think you will run into a problem with protein, though one could do the math. Since there are 8 essential amino acids and vegetables generally have a low amount of only 1 or 2, the odds of you eating all these vegetables that all lack the same essential amino acid is basically 0. You can find sites that have numbers for what amino acids are in which vegetables. But you need to normalize those numbers as some amino acids are more commonly used than others and not all are required or present in equal amounts. But the general thing is that Tryptophan and Lysine and underrepresented in vegetables but readily available in beans. Of course any animal derived product will still have 'complete protein'. So if you each spinach, french fries and brown beans week 1 and eggplant, rice and tofu week 2 then you won't have a very good diet, but you will have solved the protein issue by adding brown beans and tofu. But if you eat only tofu week 1, only eggplant week 2 and only brown beans week 3 then you have a problem. Thing is, these extremely monotonous diets seem impossible to me, though I am often surprised by the in my view outrageous diets some people have. And I am in a country were people can still recognize vegetables and don't eat mostly processed foods. I have heard that compared to other countries processed foods in the US are ridiculously unhealthy in such a degree that if you eat them you will get fat eventually, period. on an individual level its your opinion. sure you can be vegetarian or vegan but im already too used to eating meat i dont really see a point in changing. As a Chinese don't promote eating meat. It will threaten world peace. Also, no one here cares about your opinion as we are all vegetarians. We don't care about how meat tastes to you. If you want to engage, talk about your favorite vegetable, at least. Also, it doesn't matter what humans are evolutionary supposed to eat. Rape is supposed to be an excellent reproduction tactic. Yet this doesn't mean it is moral or practical in a modern world. | ||
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CorporationsRule
United States10 Posts
What's awesome about this post is how it puts forward this simplistic post-modern perspective in which all values are completely arbitrary, and there is nothing else to say about them or their political, economic, or ecological context, and then pushes the value of "tolerance" as the "gold standard of morality" that it mocks, in the same tone of superiority that the poster claims to be so offended by. Good show my friend. Good show. God, my first post in this thread came from a sincere desire to share my experience and (current) world view, and now, as always happens when I get involved in any forum, I have turned into a snide troll. The internet is evil, objectively! | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
"You once were a vegon, but now you will be gone." -end | ||
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tryummm
774 Posts
So, here's is a website that I absolutely love: http://allrecipes.com//Recipes/everyday-cooking/vegetarian/Main.aspx | ||
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PhalThrax
United States14 Posts
On April 18 2011 01:45 revy wrote: It's called tolerance. You like to eat only vegetables? Great for you, enjoy! You like to eat meat? Again, that's good for you. This is precisely how I go about the debate, as well. A not-so-quick overview of myself: I was a vegetarian for approximately seven years, and began practicing veganism roughly a year ago or so. Prior to my vegetarianism, I engaged in dietary habits that could be best described as "slow suicide." I was hitting the scale at 320 lbs, had difficulty walking up stairs, and ingested foods that provided minimal nutritional benefit (fast food twice at day, at least). Essentially, my diet was carnivorous in nature as I found vegetables and fruit unable to completely satisfy my appetite. I blame this partially on how I was raised to eat as a child (red meat nightly, a large bag of chips a day, etc), and more due to my indolence. My doctor took notice and began to criticize my health rather extensively, much to my dismay. However, I slowly began to understand how my eating habits were pernicious to my health. My doctor implored me to begin a moderate intake of fruits, vegetables, and grains. His advice didn't suggest cutting out meat entirely, but he did imply that my tendency to eat prime rib three nights was rather unnecessary. And from that point, I began to shift the balance of fruits/vegetables to meat. Having eaten few vegetables/fruits prior to this request from my doctor, I was notably surprised how much I enjoyed them. As time progressed, I slowly lost the craving to ingest meat on a perfunctory basis and replaced that desire with fresh fruit/vegetables. Roughly a year later, my meat intake was non-existent and I had essentially become "vegetarian." Fast-forward to today: I'm a 195 lbs vegan that exercises daily in the form of long-distance running, and feel the healthiest I've felt since I was a child. Many who have witnessed this transformation ask the question, "Wow! Does a vegan/vegetarian lifestyle really make that much of a difference?" My answer to them is, "It works about as efficiently as ANY balanced, healthy diet would work. It's all about balance and dedication." I tend to break the "stereotype" in regards to a vegan that is typically portrayed by the masses. I don't disseminate my practice to the masses, I don't have issues eating dinner with others who eat meat, nor do I engage in this lifestyle for animal rights (although I do encourage more humane slaughterhouse tactics). I don't practice veganism due to any realization that ingesting meat is a squalid and inhumane act. As revy mentioned in the quote above, I'm vegan simply because I enjoy it. I apply no criticism to others. My apologies for the somewhat long read. I suppose my tl:dr is: I used to eat meat, now vegan, but still love everyone and have zero issues with any dietary choices that people may engage in. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On April 18 2011 02:19 Suisen wrote: But I was trying to not need to mix way too much different things just to be practical. And finding that info was harder than I thought it would. I still didn't find a single consolidated list of which vegetables give what. Although I did find what I needed to know, but I had to do a lot of cross referencing myself from wikipedia and nutrition websites. That was much harder to do than thought. But now I finally got it.Since there are 8 essential amino acids and vegetables generally have a low amount of only 1 or 2, the odds of you eating all these vegetables that all lack the same essential amino acid is basically 0. You can find sites that have numbers for what amino acids are in which vegetables. Turns out, just like you said, it was actually much easier than I thought to make sure you're eating all your daily needs. At least compared to what I usually already eat. Actually, if I simply keep eating exactly what I always did minus the meat, I will still have my complete daily needs  Seems like the only amino acid that for my average diet, lysine was the only one that wasn't always present. But that can be easily solved with either one of beans, lentils, soy or peas. So I just have to remember to always have one of these every day and I should be ok.So yea that's it. I feel I'm ready to go vegetarian now. I'll give it a try . Thanks for the help | ||
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