EPTGSL Popularity - Page 45
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CreepCrepe
37 Posts
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
On January 08 2011 12:24 CreepCrepe wrote: Did not get excited by this in the slightest. Then I guess vast majority of GSL games have put you to sleep correct? | ||
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JustQuitWarcraftIII
United States679 Posts
On January 08 2011 12:52 don_kyuhote wrote: Then I guess vast majority of GSL games have put you to sleep correct? To be honest GSL was so boring for the most part that even if you paid me $20 to stay up and watch it I would not. | ||
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CreepCrepe
37 Posts
On January 08 2011 12:52 don_kyuhote wrote: Then I guess vast majority of GSL games have put you to sleep correct? Of course. With GSL matches, the ridiculous all-ins that get knocked back immediately will be phased out, the more players that all-in and lose, will reconsider all-inning next time. Not a hard line of logic to follow. | ||
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kirkybaby
Korea (South)781 Posts
On January 08 2011 12:51 CreepCrepe wrote: Seen equally impressive things in SC2 matches. So what? This doesn't even make sense. The question is not whether BW is more exciting than SC2. It's about making apathetic comments on a forum full of enthusiasts. It doesn't make sense to do so, and the only logical thing to do for you, is to leave. I'm not saying TL would be better off without you, just without your lame attitude. edit: I also love your nonsensical hypocrisy. It doesn't excite you in the slightest, yet you've seen just as exciting things in SC2. Oh wait, obvious troll is obvious, and I fell for it. Look how pathetic I look... oh wait... | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
On January 08 2011 12:24 CreepCrepe wrote: Did not get excited by this in the slightest. Then you must be out of your mind. That match totally demonstrates what SC2 is lacking currently. Although maybe, just maybe you didn't understand what was going on, or maybe you don't appreciate the reaver micro because you don't know how hard it can be to do all that while macroing. Either way, I think you are just being a SC2 fanboy or trolling. I love SC2 and i have faith that it will one day reach that level, if not higher. Still has ways to go though. | ||
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JustQuitWarcraftIII
United States679 Posts
On January 08 2011 12:54 CreepCrepe wrote: Of course. With GSL matches, the ridiculous all-ins that get knocked back immediately will be phased out, the more players that all-in and lose, will reconsider all-inning next time. Not a hard line of logic to follow. Except then they conclude that all-in's are still better than most other strategies so they will work on the execution of the same all-in's or come up with other all-in's. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
On January 08 2011 12:24 CreepCrepe wrote: Did not get excited by this in the slightest.  That shit with the reaver was fucking insane, it did things to my insides that cannot be put into words. | ||
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CreepCrepe
37 Posts
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noD
2230 Posts
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
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kirkybaby
Korea (South)781 Posts
On January 08 2011 13:00 CreepCrepe wrote: Why is it SC2's fault that the players aren't microing with ingenuity? This doesn't make sense. GSL players are microing with ingenuity. Did you see Boxer dropping Marauders on banelings against oGsTheWind on Metalopolis? Great stuff. On January 08 2011 13:00 CreepCrepe wrote: I understood what was going on, condescending much? The Fantasy vs Hyuk game was to illustrate just how much more exciting BW is compared to SC2, when it comes down to the players themselves. BW is an established game with an entire fleshed out set of standards. As Day9 is paraphrased "creativity comes from restraints". Right now we're witnessing superficial creativity in SC2 because it's underdeveloped strategically, especially considered how tactically apt it's player base, due to the easy transition from BW. Real, subtle, and refined strategy will come from when strategies normalize and standards emerge. On January 08 2011 13:00 CreepCrepe wrote: How can you compare the majority of this seasons GSL games when it comes down to player-specific techniques and style? It's silly. All-ins don't bother me at all. It's effective at this point of SC2's life, but it won't be forever. I assume this is what you're referencing. It's as simple as this: I was talking with a co-worker who was saying how he doesn't like NBA because it's just back and forth and unexciting. I used to feel the same way until I started playing basketball and once I started looking a little deeper at what was going on, I began to appreciate plays and tactics that wouldn't excite me before. If you watch soccer for goals, or basketball for slam dunks, you don't love the game. I don't know what else to tell you. | ||
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Bull-Demon
United States582 Posts
That and 95% of the games are boring as hell. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
BW is a Korean phenomenon, SC2 is a global one. If that means that its success and popularity is more equally divided among the major regions of the world as a tradeoff (and it subsequently cannot surpass its predecessor BW), then so be it. That said, SC2 is 6 months old. 6 months. SC1/BW arguably had its peak between 2003 and 2005. That's 5-7 years after release. Not 6 months. It's imperative to give this thing time to expand. The scene is growing. Everyone can see that. It's gaining momentum. The pools are getting bigger, the coverage is extensive, certain YT casters get millions of views on the back of SC2 competition. Now, I understand that this thread is primarily about the Korean SC2 scene, and more specifically about GomTV's apparent problems to have as big a popularity as BW. Frankly, it's ludicrous to expect the "upstart" SC2 to overtake the classic BW in mainstream popularity so soon. Especially since the BW scene has really stabilised in the last couple years, meaning that those left are passionate fans that will not simply "flock over" to the sequel. Give it time. | ||
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CreepCrepe
37 Posts
On January 08 2011 13:09 kirkybaby wrote: This doesn't make sense. GSL players are microing with ingenuity. Did you see Boxer dropping Marauders on banelings against oGsTheWind on Metalopolis? Great stuff. BW is an established game with an entire fleshed out set of standards. As Day9 is paraphrased "creativity comes from restraints". Right now we're witnessing superficial creativity in SC2 because it's underdeveloped strategically, especially considered how tactically apt it's player base, due to the easy transition from BW. Real, subtle, and refined strategy will come from when strategies normalize and standards emerge. All-ins don't bother me at all. It's effective at this point of SC2's life, but it won't be forever. I assume this is what you're referencing. It's as simple as this: I was talking with a co-worker who was saying how he doesn't like NBA because it's just back and forth and unexciting. I used to feel the same way until I started playing basketball and once I started looking a little deeper at what was going on, I began to appreciate plays and tactics that wouldn't excite me before. If you watch soccer for goals, or basketball for slam dunks, you don't love the game. I don't know what else to tell you. You do realise I agree with you on all points, even down to the Boxer vs TheWind Marauder shenanigans.. | ||
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TurboDreams
United States427 Posts
On January 08 2011 13:16 Bobster wrote: When I look at the live user stream list, I see 46 streams running at the moment. 2 for Brood War, 6 listed as misc and 38 for SC2. When I look at the activity in the TL forums, I see vastly more threads and posts running in the SC2 portion of the forums. When I look at the upcoming tournaments, I see a sizable number of respectable competitions (read: big prize pools) for SC2 popping up all over the world. Online tournaments like TSL, European competitions like Dreamhack and IEM and North American tournaments like MLG. For BW, there is basically nothing of note outside Korea (ICCup?). BW is a Korean phenomenon, SC2 is a global one. If that means that its success and popularity is more equally divided among the major regions of the world as a tradeoff (and it subsequently cannot surpass its predecessor BW), then so be it. That said, SC2 is 6 months old. 6 months. SC1/BW arguably had its peak between 2003 and 2005. That's 5-7 years after release. Not 6 months. It's imperative to give this thing time to expand. The scene is growing. Everyone can see that. It's gaining momentum. The pools are getting bigger, the coverage is extensive, certain YT casters get millions of views on the back of SC2 competition. Now, I understand that this thread is primarily about the Korean SC2 scene, and more specifically about GomTV's apparent problems to have as big a popularity as BW. Frankly, it's ludicrous to expect the "upstart" SC2 to overtake the classic BW in mainstream popularity so soon. Especially since the BW scene has really stabilised in the last couple years, meaning that those left are passionate fans that will not simply "flock over" to the sequel. Give it time. The its still young argument is really starting to get on my nerves. If you backtrack to broodwar's release, people didn't know what an RTS game was, thats why the quality of games were really poor. (lol 1base Terran with a zillion bunkers vs a 1 base Zerg with 3 guardians) We live in 2011, many of us have prior RTS experience, so saying its the same as BW back in 2000 is kinda dumb, because really SC2 got a much bigger jump start in terms of skill then what BW had. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On January 08 2011 13:25 Musiq wrote: The its still young argument is really starting to get on my nerves. If you backtrack to broodwar's release, people didn't know what an RTS game was, thats why the quality of games were really poor. (lol 1base Terran with a zillion bunkers vs a 1 base Zerg with 3 guardians) We live in 2011, many of us have prior RTS experience, so saying its the same as BW back in 2000 is kinda dumb, because really SC2 got a much bigger jump start in terms of skill then what BW had. You do realize SC was not the first RTS to be created do you?. You realize, as well, that when BW arrived we'd been playing SC vanilla for a while right? Obviously it's not exactly the same thing don't be ridiculous, but SC2 is definitely a very young game, and strats and balance need time to evolve, particularly in the whole map problem. Hell, even through the GSLs we've seen lots of changes, and it will keep changing through the first few years. | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On January 08 2011 13:25 Musiq wrote: The its still young argument is really starting to get on my nerves. If you backtrack to broodwar's release, people didn't know what an RTS game was, thats why the quality of games were really poor. (lol 1base Terran with a zillion bunkers vs a 1 base Zerg with 3 guardians) We live in 2011, many of us have prior RTS experience, so saying its the same as BW back in 2000 is kinda dumb, because really SC2 got a much bigger jump start in terms of skill then what BW had. A jump start certainly but SC2 is different enough that it would still take time to figure out the optimum builds for certain scenarios. | ||
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Helios.Star
United States548 Posts
On January 08 2011 13:25 Musiq wrote: The its still young argument is really starting to get on my nerves. If you backtrack to broodwar's release, people didn't know what an RTS game was, thats why the quality of games were really poor. (lol 1base Terran with a zillion bunkers vs a 1 base Zerg with 3 guardians) We live in 2011, many of us have prior RTS experience, so saying its the same as BW back in 2000 is kinda dumb, because really SC2 got a much bigger jump start in terms of skill then what BW had. I bought Starcraft three months after release (STARCRAFT, not Brood War) and I played Warcraft and both C&C games that were out at the time, people definitely knew what an RTS was. It makes me laugh how the first SC is referred to as BW all the time, but SC2 is dead before the first expansion even comes out. It isnt a dumb argument, because 6 months after release both games are/were still considered to be in their infancy. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On January 08 2011 13:25 Musiq wrote: The its still young argument is really starting to get on my nerves. If you backtrack to broodwar's release, people didn't know what an RTS game was, thats why the quality of games were really poor. (lol 1base Terran with a zillion bunkers vs a 1 base Zerg with 3 guardians) We live in 2011, many of us have prior RTS experience, so saying its the same as BW back in 2000 is kinda dumb, because really SC2 got a much bigger jump start in terms of skill then what BW had. Note that I haven't mentioned player skill or match quality in my post. I am solely talking about the popularity of the respective games in an enthusiast and mainstream audience. You can have a huge hit on your hands initially (and SC2 has certainly sold a ton of copies already), but the size and longevity of the community decides whether the game will still be popular years down the road or vanish and be replaced itself like most other titles. And looking at the development so far, SC2 is set to far surpass BW in these regards everywhere but in Korea (for now?). | ||
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