EPTGSL Popularity - Page 20
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phodacbiet
United States1739 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On January 07 2011 12:43 usethis2 wrote: Care to elaborate? Because I've heard a similar thing - that C&C developer was scouted for SC2. Who is that developer, and what are the similarities of the two, in constrast to BW? I believe it is Dustin Browder? | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
Indeed it was Dustin Browder, who was also the lead designer for Red Alert 2. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On January 07 2011 12:37 SubtleArt wrote: The talent pool is a joke lol. ogsMC's illustrious brood war was him going 1-9 and NesTea was a horrible ~30% Zerg. Until we get real plers in GSL it's gonna be stale. Also you see so many better players getting knocked out by worse players cause the worse player decided to do a 50/50 all in thats ridiculously strong on a map (like 4 warps on delta) and takes skill completely out of the equation. Maps dont help obviously, and shakuras and metal are the only maps i've seen that can consistently deliver interesting games but still, GSL is going to be boring as long as its filled with nothing but brood war rejects and war3 players  SlayerS_BoxeR was a god in BW and he hasn't achieved anything great in SC2, same goes for NaDa, July is in Code A for christ's sake. Talent in BW does not translate directly into talent in SC2. Don't know the real reasons for this, but I'd dare say that even current top BW players would have some difficulties adapting to the game at the beginning. Except jaedong he's too good haha. | ||
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
On January 07 2011 12:22 Redmark wrote: Three GSLs is like one BW starleague. I like how so many people can see the future. I love how hypocritical SC2 fans, like you, unless I misunderstood your post, are. "You can't foretell the future." then branches off into "It'll be a good game with 2-3 years of development." If you really think that, with the current, shitty map pool SC2 is going anywhere, you are in for one rude awakening. | ||
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Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:14 Turgid wrote: dunno if anyone can say with any certainty what's going to happen regarding SC2 in the long term in Korea, but I think SC2 will keep going strong in the west, and that's good enough for me. All we have to do as foreigners is keep being badasses and hosting awesome tournaments and we'll have a sick scene all our own. If Korea's scene survives and grows, awesome, we'll have a cool scene there, too. Very well put, why do we really need Korea to adapt SC2 when it keeps growing and growing in the west? Broodwar needed the Korean scene because it wasn't as big in other places of the world, but SC2 is and thus they're not really needed. | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
Is this a joke? Simple move commands haven't won anything in the GSL from what I've seen. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
The reasons for this is simply because BW is so much more fun to watch than SC2. If you watch most games of BW, there's always action going on all the time, no matter which pros are playing. Troop movements are a constant. Several armies (not just 1 or 2) from both players are constantly patrolling the map, trying to gain positional advantages. Harassment is a given and is also constantly happening. BW simply has more action in every game. Contrast that to SC2. Even at the highest level. Games are usually more or less either a. Early rush/cheese because of the maps/player skill or b. Two players sitting on their asses massing up two large armies to smash into each other. Games are almost always decided by 1 or 2 engagements. Obviously, this is an oversimplification. Sometimes you see wonderful, amazing games with lots of breathtaking back and forth action, but that is not the case in the vast majority of games. A lot of the players in every tournament to date tend to favor "boring" play, be it early game shenanigans or sit-on-my-ass-and-wait play. This is in part due to the less developed metagame of SC2, but largely, I think the issue can be attributed to the mappool. Maps are fucking small. Even the largest maps are retardedly small by BW standards. Yes, SC2 is not BW, but BW is successful, while SC2 is dwindling in Korea. Learn from what works. It must be understood that large maps does not automatically mean every game will be a long macro game. That is false, and quite simply a retarded view. What large maps allow, is not necessarily for longer games, but for more action-packed games. With more ground to cover, it becomes necessary for players to constantly be doing something lest they lose map control and positional advantages. It also lowers the possibility for games to be decided by simply one engagement and will increase the chances of a back-and-forth game. Whether or not a game succeeds must depend on viewability of tournament play at the highest level. If the highest level tournament is boring to watch, the game simply will not take off. EDIT: Some people say that it's okay, SC2 can fail in Korea as long as it stays strong in the West. While that might be true, I personally believe that for the esports scene to succeed, SC2 must at least gain some popularity in Korea. Currently, Korea is still the mecca of esports in that the largest, most prestigious tournaments are still being held there. Simply just compare the prizepool for largest tournament in Korea (GSL) and the largest ones in the West. The two are vastly different. The West simply does not have the proper cultural and societal view of esports (yet) to really allow esports to become "legit". It will take a time and more importantly, proof that esports is as viable a career choice as playing basketball or football is. Korea can provide that proof, which can currently be found no where else. Not anywhere near the same scale at least. | ||
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shadesofkarma
Romania708 Posts
On January 07 2011 12:18 Rocor wrote: Hello, Speaking of the expansion of esports into the west and beyond, does anyone know if there is an active movement to get Starcraft or other mainstream games/tournaments onto cable or network TV ? Why can't something like the GSL be on G4 or Spike ? Hmm Day[9] and Husky teamed up and casting the US-GSL, on cable television.. I'd watch You and other people who play SC2 would, but would anyone else? | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On January 07 2011 12:49 mordk wrote: SlayerS_BoxeR was a god in BW and he hasn't achieved anything great in SC2, same goes for NaDa, July is in Code A for christ's sake. Talent in BW does not translate directly into talent in SC2. Don't know the real reasons for this, but I'd dare say that even current top BW players would have some difficulties adapting to the game at the beginning. Except jaedong he's too good haha. Umm... Boxer/Nada/July at this point aren't capable of top level BW games anymore. If there's any indication of the lack of talent in SC2, it would be that MVP looks like fucking Flash in SC2. SERIOUSLY, MVP. | ||
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xza
Singapore1600 Posts
Number 1: GSL playstyles aren't exactly exciting. Its not fun to see people 1 base/2 base timing push or cheese compared to a full all out macro game that is back and forth. See Leenock vs Clide. Now compare the playstyle of sc2 to BW, and notice anything different? It seems much more epic cause each player has 4-5 bases and are fighting back and forth. SC2 maps are also f'ing horrible for long term macro games. Number 2: GSL being broadcasted at the same time as BW events. Everytime theres GSL, BW will have their programs on. This clash would definitely favor BW since it already has a huge fanbase. I'm sure SOME people who are interested in watching SC2 but not when BW is on. GOM/Blizz could reschedule the timings and work out with kespa or something. Number 3: Blizz vs KESPA conflict. I think korean viewers view the conflict as a diss on BW. If im not wrong I saw a post by someone saying that there were some writers who published bad stories about SC2. like how SC2 fried the gfx card in lan shops, too slow gameplay, lack of mechanics etc. | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
On January 07 2011 12:54 Vei wrote: Is this a joke? Simple move commands haven't won anything in the GSL from what I've seen. I believe in at least a few C&C games, and many other RTS titles in general, units will attack automatically when given a move command. They will continue moving to their destination, but they will also fire on any opposition automatically while doing so. The point is that attack-move and move commands relinquish player agency to unit AI, and that some situations are so advantageous to a player that the player can prevail without controlling his units. | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
Also, from what I understand, the large stadium is just extra from the sponsorship. | ||
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RHMVNovus
United States738 Posts
On January 07 2011 13:01 baubo wrote: Umm... Boxer/Nada/July at this point aren't capable of top level BW games anymore. If there's any indication of the lack of talent in SC2, it would be that MVP looks like fucking Flash in SC2. SERIOUSLY, MVP. Oh shit, he made it to the round of sixteen twice and barely edged into Code S, ranking behind such esteemed scholars of the game as SanZenith. Should I bow down before our new SCII hegemon, or would he prefer kneeling while I kiss his ring? | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On January 07 2011 13:01 baubo wrote: Umm... Boxer/Nada/July at this point aren't capable of top level BW games anymore. If there's any indication of the lack of talent in SC2, it would be that MVP looks like fucking Flash in SC2. SERIOUSLY, MVP. To be fair, MVP had a few decent games in scbw - and compare his competition versus SC2 opponents to what he was playing against as a pro in SCBW. I want to emphasize few though. Very very few. | ||
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vileChAnCe
Canada525 Posts
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EZjijy
United States1039 Posts
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Best of 1 games, only 5 games in a night. Compare that to GSL open seasons where there were 5 best of 3's in a single night, and it was also a single elimination tourney, which is more interesting to watch than this weird, convoluted Best of 1 Code A and Code S stuff. Bring back best of 3s! | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
GSL viewership numbers are noticeably decreasing. Why on earth would something like that happen? The fact of the matter is that Starcraft 2 is boring to watch once the novelty wears off. The intrinsic game design of Starcraft 2 (MBS, 1-control group, tighter collision detection, better pathing) greatly increases the effectiveness of 'timing attacks' so called 'cheese'. These are symptoms of the greater issue being that competitive advantages in Starcraft 2 are easily capitalized upon and swiftly determine the victor. Add the fact of the game's lower skill-ceiling and you have the makings if a poor spectator sport with underwhelming longevity compared to brood war. These are the two unavoidable truths: 1. Starcraft 2 has less gameplay depth than Starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 has less skill depth than Starcraft. Blizzard can continue to put up as much prize money as they want, but they will soon realize that the waning interest in Starcraft 2 isn't for lack of competition, rather the opposite. The uncomfortable truth is that the highest levels of competition are beginning to highlight the fundamental flaws of Starcraft 2 as a spectator sport compared with the likes of Brood War. And don't think for a second that the western world can support SC2 if Korea cannot. | ||
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