|
On December 01 2010 04:11 10fps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 04:05 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 04:02 10fps wrote:On December 01 2010 03:46 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 03:23 10fps wrote:On December 01 2010 03:11 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 03:08 OutlaW- wrote:
gratz man now mym posted this bullshit because of u
look
A : its not right, it was all luck based with gsl only putting him in a favorable ro64 starting position
B : its not right, gsl didnt do anything
C : its true, boxer did get some help in ahving easy opponents
D : its true, seeing as how he was good ni s2 they put him in a lot of tvts in s3
E : its true, they only let him play tvts because they rigged every match (and ofc they knew that tvt was his good match up..)
if they didnt rig it, u loko like an idiot
if they did rig it, u are an idiot for trying to kill e-sports in korea just to be a bit more known
how the hell did gsl know that hes good in tvts beforehand?
what if him good being at tvt is because he had to play so many and practice only them?
what if ur gonna create some scandal which isnt right and still hurts esports?
what if ur gonna create something big : arguments for kespa, hate from more koreans, etc. etc.
even if it was true i see no fucking reason to post it like an idiot, its a loss loss situations in both cases oh my god This mentality is problematic, how is it killing e-sports by demanding a high level of integrity to make the competition legitimate? The bigger problem is bringing up accusations that have no proof behind it and are just speculation. What the OP implied is now starting to create a snowball that can really damage the GSL and SC2 in Korea in general. It's very dangerous to bring up such claims without anything proving them. I don't agree with rigging but I do believe in "innocent until proven guilty" which doesn't really fit on the internet where the mentality of a lynch mob prevails more often than not. The OP has no ways of proving his claim but GOM TV is in the same boat. Implications are more than enough to create considerable damage to the reputation of the competition if enough people are willing to believe it. And TL is a place where people scream RIGGED after half of the matches anyway (just look the comment on Hyperdub vs MC) so naturally making a post like this is only adding fuel to the fire. The poster is either very irresponsible or willingly acted with malicious intent. The burden on proof isn't and shouldn't be on GOM TV...but that isn't going to help them. Well everyone has a right to their opinion. The OP is obviously very opinionated about this but anyone that takes his opinion as fact is making their own mistakes. He isn't making it for them. The way corruption is unraveled is through speculation, which turns into investigation, which either proves or disproves there is corruption. Bringing up the fact that there may be a problem with the legitimacy of GSL brackets is healthy, it is better to be safe than sorry, are we just supposed to mindlessly stay quiet and accept that everything that happens in GSL is fair and has no ulterior motive? Gom TV could easily prove their tournament is legitimate with transparency, we have asked for it since S1 began, and they have failed to deliver. This begs the question of why their process has to be so clouded in the first place if they are innocent? To an opinion, of course. But that doesn't absolve people of acting responsibly with those opinions. TL is very influential and unfortunately there are a lot of people who are either uninformed or will jump on the bandwagon just because they want some drama. That's not the way of going about things. You used a real life example of how corruption is unraveled however it's not really applicable on the Internet where everyone can say anything and can go viral in an instant. The versions and "facts" will change as it spreads until all it has done is damage to the reputation of SC2, GSL and e-sports as a whole. If something is rigged or corrupted then of course it has to be exposed and I'm all for it, but it shouldn't be done this way. And like always: the burden on proof is on someone making the claim, not the other way around. Demanding transparency for future tournaments is one thing (and a good one) but accusing them of rigging past tournaments is a completely different ball game. Ok well how about this, people have asked for transparency since the very first GSL. They have not delivered transparency, we can not force them to deliver transparency, so really the ball is in their court. I think it is healthy to speculate that something fishy may be up, because we originally were just asking for transparency, giving them an honest chance to show that the tournament is legitimate and fair, yet they have not taken the opportunity to do so. The behavior of GSL and the decisions they have made are obviously dictated by something other than just promoting esports in a fair, legitimate, and honest way. Um. Accusing someone of rigging and fixing a tournament just because they haven't complied to your demands doesn't make the ball in their court. It doesn't change the burden of proof thing because you are still the one making the claim. It just seems vindictive and petty. "They haven't given us full transparency so they must be rigging the tournament. So we shall make everyone know this!" Uh-oh.
You are misconstruing what I have said.
I am saying that we have given them the opportunity to show that the tournament is legitimate. They are the one trying to promote sc2 as an esport, if they want to show they have a legitimate tournament that is up to them. We can not force them to do so.
But if they are evasive about their tournament and are not transparent, it is only logical to ask the question of why that is so.
And realistically the burden of proof is on them, because it is not that we need to prove they are corrupt.
It is them trying to market GSL as the most insane and biggest esport event in the world. So they need to prove that it is an esport event, and not just a marketing event.
|
GOM's reply to the bracket selection is quite interesting.
The idea that tournament organizers would consider not hosting an official video record of a random group drawing simply because some people would doubt its authenticity is unfortunate.
It would be like me on vacation catching the biggest fish I've ever seen, but not taking any pictures because some people would say I photoshopped it. It still happened. I caught the fish, just as they may have randomly drawn the brackets, but neither of us have proof in the end.
Couple that with the statement of distributing races and previous top four finishers across groups, and things seem more artificial.
For a professional broadcast company running the largest Starcraft 2 tournament in the world promoting the game and e-sports, I think the more records and transparency you have in how you manage a tournament the better, so situations and speculations such as this don't arise.
But the way the cards have been folding in favor of some of the celebrity players suggests to me that things are not random as advertised.
And while that is not enough to prove anything, if I feel a tournament is unfairly stacked whether by brackets, match-ups, map selection, what have you, then I am less inclined to be a viewer and supporter of that tournament in the future.
This really is an interesting discussion in general about how an audience looks at fairness and fortune in a tournament setting, and it will spread around as speculation often wildly does, but people will have their own opinions and have to make their own decisions based on what they observe.
|
On December 01 2010 04:13 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 04:11 10fps wrote:On December 01 2010 04:05 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 04:02 10fps wrote:On December 01 2010 03:46 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 03:23 10fps wrote:On December 01 2010 03:11 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 03:08 OutlaW- wrote:
gratz man now mym posted this bullshit because of u
look
A : its not right, it was all luck based with gsl only putting him in a favorable ro64 starting position
B : its not right, gsl didnt do anything
C : its true, boxer did get some help in ahving easy opponents
D : its true, seeing as how he was good ni s2 they put him in a lot of tvts in s3
E : its true, they only let him play tvts because they rigged every match (and ofc they knew that tvt was his good match up..)
if they didnt rig it, u loko like an idiot
if they did rig it, u are an idiot for trying to kill e-sports in korea just to be a bit more known
how the hell did gsl know that hes good in tvts beforehand?
what if him good being at tvt is because he had to play so many and practice only them?
what if ur gonna create some scandal which isnt right and still hurts esports?
what if ur gonna create something big : arguments for kespa, hate from more koreans, etc. etc.
even if it was true i see no fucking reason to post it like an idiot, its a loss loss situations in both cases oh my god This mentality is problematic, how is it killing e-sports by demanding a high level of integrity to make the competition legitimate? The bigger problem is bringing up accusations that have no proof behind it and are just speculation. What the OP implied is now starting to create a snowball that can really damage the GSL and SC2 in Korea in general. It's very dangerous to bring up such claims without anything proving them. I don't agree with rigging but I do believe in "innocent until proven guilty" which doesn't really fit on the internet where the mentality of a lynch mob prevails more often than not. The OP has no ways of proving his claim but GOM TV is in the same boat. Implications are more than enough to create considerable damage to the reputation of the competition if enough people are willing to believe it. And TL is a place where people scream RIGGED after half of the matches anyway (just look the comment on Hyperdub vs MC) so naturally making a post like this is only adding fuel to the fire. The poster is either very irresponsible or willingly acted with malicious intent. The burden on proof isn't and shouldn't be on GOM TV...but that isn't going to help them. Well everyone has a right to their opinion. The OP is obviously very opinionated about this but anyone that takes his opinion as fact is making their own mistakes. He isn't making it for them. The way corruption is unraveled is through speculation, which turns into investigation, which either proves or disproves there is corruption. Bringing up the fact that there may be a problem with the legitimacy of GSL brackets is healthy, it is better to be safe than sorry, are we just supposed to mindlessly stay quiet and accept that everything that happens in GSL is fair and has no ulterior motive? Gom TV could easily prove their tournament is legitimate with transparency, we have asked for it since S1 began, and they have failed to deliver. This begs the question of why their process has to be so clouded in the first place if they are innocent? To an opinion, of course. But that doesn't absolve people of acting responsibly with those opinions. TL is very influential and unfortunately there are a lot of people who are either uninformed or will jump on the bandwagon just because they want some drama. That's not the way of going about things. You used a real life example of how corruption is unraveled however it's not really applicable on the Internet where everyone can say anything and can go viral in an instant. The versions and "facts" will change as it spreads until all it has done is damage to the reputation of SC2, GSL and e-sports as a whole. If something is rigged or corrupted then of course it has to be exposed and I'm all for it, but it shouldn't be done this way. And like always: the burden on proof is on someone making the claim, not the other way around. Demanding transparency for future tournaments is one thing (and a good one) but accusing them of rigging past tournaments is a completely different ball game. Ok well how about this, people have asked for transparency since the very first GSL. They have not delivered transparency, we can not force them to deliver transparency, so really the ball is in their court. I think it is healthy to speculate that something fishy may be up, because we originally were just asking for transparency, giving them an honest chance to show that the tournament is legitimate and fair, yet they have not taken the opportunity to do so. The behavior of GSL and the decisions they have made are obviously dictated by something other than just promoting esports in a fair, legitimate, and honest way. Um. Accusing someone of rigging and fixing a tournament just because they haven't complied to your demands doesn't make the ball in their court. It doesn't change the burden of proof thing because you are still the one making the claim. It just seems vindictive and petty. "They haven't given us full transparency so they must be rigging the tournament. So we shall make everyone know this!" Uh-oh. You are misconstruing what I have said. I am saying that we have given them the opportunity to show that the tournament is legitimate. They are the one trying to promote sc2 as an esport, if they want to show they have a legitimate tournament that is up to them. We can not force them to do so. But if they are evasive about their tournament and are not transparent, it is only logical to ask the question of why that is so.
I'm sorry if I did and I edited my post to reply to your edit ^^
So far GSL hasn't been all that transparent however the real test will be next year. I'm not defending them, I do believe a greater degree of openness would do everyone good but that doesn't mean I'm willing to support speculation.
Especially one that has no real proof behind it and is so poorly constructed. We shouldn't take anything they say at point blank value, far from it. But we also need to be responsible enough to know that floating around topics like this will in fact create a huge stir or degenerate into a misinformed shit fest because that's the nature of the internet.
It is imperative for a GSL to retain it's integrity at the moment, because of the future of SC2. Unless they are actually, you know...guilty.
|
On December 01 2010 04:20 10fps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 04:13 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 04:11 10fps wrote:On December 01 2010 04:05 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 04:02 10fps wrote:On December 01 2010 03:46 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 03:23 10fps wrote:On December 01 2010 03:11 robertdinh wrote:On December 01 2010 03:08 OutlaW- wrote:
gratz man now mym posted this bullshit because of u
look
A : its not right, it was all luck based with gsl only putting him in a favorable ro64 starting position
B : its not right, gsl didnt do anything
C : its true, boxer did get some help in ahving easy opponents
D : its true, seeing as how he was good ni s2 they put him in a lot of tvts in s3
E : its true, they only let him play tvts because they rigged every match (and ofc they knew that tvt was his good match up..)
if they didnt rig it, u loko like an idiot
if they did rig it, u are an idiot for trying to kill e-sports in korea just to be a bit more known
how the hell did gsl know that hes good in tvts beforehand?
what if him good being at tvt is because he had to play so many and practice only them?
what if ur gonna create some scandal which isnt right and still hurts esports?
what if ur gonna create something big : arguments for kespa, hate from more koreans, etc. etc.
even if it was true i see no fucking reason to post it like an idiot, its a loss loss situations in both cases oh my god This mentality is problematic, how is it killing e-sports by demanding a high level of integrity to make the competition legitimate? The bigger problem is bringing up accusations that have no proof behind it and are just speculation. What the OP implied is now starting to create a snowball that can really damage the GSL and SC2 in Korea in general. It's very dangerous to bring up such claims without anything proving them. I don't agree with rigging but I do believe in "innocent until proven guilty" which doesn't really fit on the internet where the mentality of a lynch mob prevails more often than not. The OP has no ways of proving his claim but GOM TV is in the same boat. Implications are more than enough to create considerable damage to the reputation of the competition if enough people are willing to believe it. And TL is a place where people scream RIGGED after half of the matches anyway (just look the comment on Hyperdub vs MC) so naturally making a post like this is only adding fuel to the fire. The poster is either very irresponsible or willingly acted with malicious intent. The burden on proof isn't and shouldn't be on GOM TV...but that isn't going to help them. Well everyone has a right to their opinion. The OP is obviously very opinionated about this but anyone that takes his opinion as fact is making their own mistakes. He isn't making it for them. The way corruption is unraveled is through speculation, which turns into investigation, which either proves or disproves there is corruption. Bringing up the fact that there may be a problem with the legitimacy of GSL brackets is healthy, it is better to be safe than sorry, are we just supposed to mindlessly stay quiet and accept that everything that happens in GSL is fair and has no ulterior motive? Gom TV could easily prove their tournament is legitimate with transparency, we have asked for it since S1 began, and they have failed to deliver. This begs the question of why their process has to be so clouded in the first place if they are innocent? To an opinion, of course. But that doesn't absolve people of acting responsibly with those opinions. TL is very influential and unfortunately there are a lot of people who are either uninformed or will jump on the bandwagon just because they want some drama. That's not the way of going about things. You used a real life example of how corruption is unraveled however it's not really applicable on the Internet where everyone can say anything and can go viral in an instant. The versions and "facts" will change as it spreads until all it has done is damage to the reputation of SC2, GSL and e-sports as a whole. If something is rigged or corrupted then of course it has to be exposed and I'm all for it, but it shouldn't be done this way. And like always: the burden on proof is on someone making the claim, not the other way around. Demanding transparency for future tournaments is one thing (and a good one) but accusing them of rigging past tournaments is a completely different ball game. Ok well how about this, people have asked for transparency since the very first GSL. They have not delivered transparency, we can not force them to deliver transparency, so really the ball is in their court. I think it is healthy to speculate that something fishy may be up, because we originally were just asking for transparency, giving them an honest chance to show that the tournament is legitimate and fair, yet they have not taken the opportunity to do so. The behavior of GSL and the decisions they have made are obviously dictated by something other than just promoting esports in a fair, legitimate, and honest way. Um. Accusing someone of rigging and fixing a tournament just because they haven't complied to your demands doesn't make the ball in their court. It doesn't change the burden of proof thing because you are still the one making the claim. It just seems vindictive and petty. "They haven't given us full transparency so they must be rigging the tournament. So we shall make everyone know this!" Uh-oh. You are misconstruing what I have said. I am saying that we have given them the opportunity to show that the tournament is legitimate. They are the one trying to promote sc2 as an esport, if they want to show they have a legitimate tournament that is up to them. We can not force them to do so. But if they are evasive about their tournament and are not transparent, it is only logical to ask the question of why that is so. I'm sorry if I did and I edited my post to reply to your edit ^^ So far GSL hasn't been all that transparent however the real test will be next year. I'm not defending them, I do believe a greater degree of openness would do everyone good but that doesn't mean I'm willing to support speculation. Especially one that has no real proof behind it and is so poorly constructed. We shouldn't take anything they say at point blank value, far from it. But we also need to be responsible enough to know that floating around topics like this will in fact create a huge stir or degenerate into a misinformed shit fest because that's the nature of the internet. It is imperative for a GSL to retain it's integrity at the moment, because of the future of SC2. Unless they are actually, you know...guilty.
But while some view topics like this as harmful, there is also good that comes out of them.
Topics like this may force gom into action.
1. If they get called out by enough people they may be forced to show a legitimate process on how it is all determined.
2. If they are guilty, they may realize that they are going a little too far and people are starting to notice, and it may cause them to tone it down or become legitimate.
A similar example would be the NBA. There are a lot of people that are skeptical about the officiating in the playoffs. And then that ref got caught betting on games that he was officiating in, and he rolled over and said that certain series were blatantly manufactured. Now the nba was able to do some damage control and avoid getting caught for anything suspicious, but whether they were guilty or not, because their officiating has come under heavy scrutiny, they have tried to at least appear as though they are buckling down on it, and modifying rules so that things like possession calls at the end of the game can be accurate.
|
Why is this thread still open? Or why wasn't the title changed to something like "Is GomTV protecting Boxer"? Has teamliquid sunk to a sensationalist level? I bet that if someone finds some weird coincidence in MLG and posts something like this it will be closed in an instant...
|
I disagree with the OP.
At most, since they don't have a proper seeding system until after GSL3, they probably set up the ro64 to be evenly distributed in the brackets (and prevent possibly prevent big name clashes) but assuming they're rigging it so Boxer is only against T's is pretty baseless. Anything past the ro64 is all dependent on the players themselves.
For example, Boxer's next opponent could have been Zerg had the Zerg won over the T in the ro64. The maps were Delta Quadrant, Scrap Station and Xel'Naga Caverns, so it's not like anyone set the maps up against Zerg's favor. Scrap Station is said to be Zerg favored and the other two are the maps Moon (as Zerg) won on.
As for GSL2, his first matchup was indeed a TvT, but his next matchup was TvP. The third ended up being against Loner in a TvT again, but Loner had to get through a P and Z to get there, so Boxer could have very well been up against either that time around. His final TvT matchup in the GSL2 was against NaDa, who had previously beaten LeenockfOu (Zerg) so again Boxer's chance of being in another TvT was in the players hands.
Anyway, I really don't think theres anything sneaky being done here.
|
Topics like this may force gom into action.
1. If they get called out by enough people they may be forced to show a legitimate process on how it is all determined.
2. If they are guilty, they may realize that they are going a little too far and people are starting to notice, and it may cause them to tone it down or become legitimate.
Isn't this the last season without seeding? Yes, they maybe fixed the brackets and it was good for e-sports because big stars advanced and attracted more attention and possibly more future sponsorship for upcoming seasons. Having SlayersBoxer, Nada and -almost certainly- JulyZerg to secure code S the best thing for GomTV and Blizzard that could happen right now.
|
In my opinion it's really likely the bracket is fixed.. guys come on, think about qualifications for GSL2 (didn't follow GSL3, so can't say anything about that), Nada's and Boxer's very easy opponents, getting lot of W.O. as well as no really big names fighting against each other (were there even 2 guys from top16 GSL1 playing against each other in GSL2?).. on the other hand, ask yourself - how would you like if Nada and Boxer met in qualification/ro64? Or Fruitdealer and ITR? Or Idra and ret? Yea, it would suck. It's still fixing though :/
the map rigging is much worse in my eyes, if it's true 
|
On December 01 2010 04:40 Somnolence wrote:Show nested quote +Topics like this may force gom into action.
1. If they get called out by enough people they may be forced to show a legitimate process on how it is all determined.
2. If they are guilty, they may realize that they are going a little too far and people are starting to notice, and it may cause them to tone it down or become legitimate. Isn't this the last season without seeding? Yes, they maybe fixed the brackets and it was good for e-sports because big stars advanced and attracted more attention and possibly more future sponsorship for upcoming seasons. Having SlayersBoxer, Nada and -almost certainly- JulyZerg to secure code S the best thing for GomTV and Blizzard that could happen right now.
Well this is where personal opinion comes into play, for me artificially grown esport's scenes are not good for esports.
It would be like saying pop music is good for the integrity of music.
What would be good for esports is a game that is balanced to where the best player will usually win, and is perpetuated for the sake of highly competitive play, and not for the sake of revenue.
I already know how SC2 is going to turn out tbh. It's going to be pumped up by blizzard until shortly after the final expansion hits, and then it will be dropped like a bad habit for the next source of revenue.
|
Absolutely agree... I noticed the same thing myself. Obviously they stack the brackets so the favorites probably move on while still giving some good games. In any event if their stars are getting knocked out early then they'll obviously not be managing the business well since ppl will not be interested in no-names.
|
On December 01 2010 04:10 Batch wrote:
I think we can asume the matchups are rigged to some degree. Otherwise they would have shown the bracket tree.
I would rather have a transparent organization but I don't know if that would be the best option for the sport or not.
I would have to agree with this. Nowhere have I seen the GomTV bracket tree for this season and the past two seasons, or if they existed, could you show me the links? The brackets for Boxer are really fishy in the first place, but then it is in their best interests if Boxer does progress as far as he can. It cannot hurt to have more transparency when suspicions like these arise. =\
|
On December 01 2010 04:48 cocoa_sg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 04:10 Batch wrote:
I think we can asume the matchups are rigged to some degree. Otherwise they would have shown the bracket tree.
I would rather have a transparent organization but I don't know if that would be the best option for the sport or not. I would have to agree with this. Nowhere have I seen the GomTV bracket tree for this season and the past two seasons, or if they existed, could you show me the links? The brackets for Boxer are really fishy in the first place, but then it is in their best interests if Boxer does progress as far as he can. It cannot hurt to have more transparency when suspicions like these arise. =\
S3 Brackets: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168854
S2 Brackets: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159470
More specifically, here's Boxers brackets.
S2:
+ Show Spoiler +
S3:
+ Show Spoiler +Note: They messed up Nexon, he's actually T. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eWVKW.png)
|
You can always see the GOM brackets on Liquipedia or at Youplayoff.com in a pinch, since those GOM graphics are so hard to find
|
Thanks for posting the bracket trees. Still, I feel GomTV has to have a video recording of the random draws for group selections, like what the OSL and MSL do in their group selection ceremonies, with progamers present to oversee the process. This would be more fair in the viewers' eyes. ^^
|
On November 30 2010 13:36 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Eh their conspiracy failed to even get Nada into the Ro64 so I'm not too worried about it.
Lol yeah even if they're giving him a boost, the rest of the players are really good... Julys play this morning was just jaw dropping. o___o;
|
On November 30 2010 23:34 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 23:25 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
Every single tournament in the world is done like this. It would be stupid not to. If you're a newcomer, expect to be treated as such. The rest of the players have earned their dues. You don't think Boxer making it to the finals is better for EVERYONE? Bad ratings = bad paydays for everyone.
Moreover, you're making an ass out of everyone with these assumptions. did you just...argue that the tournament IS rigged and then call the OP an ass for assuming that the tournament is rigged?
No. I said that every tournament is structured in a way to allow its stars to advance as far as they can. And that's not rigging the tournament. Rigging the tournament would be to have people purposely lose.
|
I think many of you are naïve to think that tournaments are always drawn randomly. There are usually two ways tournament brackets are drawn up:
1) Seeding
2) Set up exactly how the organisers want it
Seeding will be in place after this season, if I remember correctly.
|
This is pretty plausible imo. Unfortunately rigging brackets in large tourneys is nothing new, hell even the OSL brackets are usually set up so that the best players can end up in the finals for epic viewership right?
|
On December 01 2010 04:57 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 04:48 cocoa_sg wrote:On December 01 2010 04:10 Batch wrote:
I think we can asume the matchups are rigged to some degree. Otherwise they would have shown the bracket tree.
I would rather have a transparent organization but I don't know if that would be the best option for the sport or not. I would have to agree with this. Nowhere have I seen the GomTV bracket tree for this season and the past two seasons, or if they existed, could you show me the links? The brackets for Boxer are really fishy in the first place, but then it is in their best interests if Boxer does progress as far as he can. It cannot hurt to have more transparency when suspicions like these arise. =\ S3 Brackets: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168854S2 Brackets: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159470More specifically, here's Boxers brackets. S2: + Show Spoiler +S3: + Show Spoiler +Note: They messed up Nexon, he's actually T.
Thanks! Didn't know these existed. 
|
Has nobody here heard of seeding? People are dragging in the fact big names don't face each other early as evidence that boxer is getting stacked racial matchups... lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/motbob/GomC_re.jpg)
